t-td5 twin turbo td5

[stig0000]

whem it comes time to rebuild my td5, im thinking of stroking it an maby twin turboing it,, iv herd of people puting diffrent turbos on them,, but what about twin,, could it b don,, an since they would b small id hav allmost no turbo lag an good power torqe down low, ;);)

[dobbo]

I no speakie, ding dong wanna bong loo loo pha caru, I have also tried your post in google translator as well, but there is no English interpretation.


I thought this was a bit politer than quoting Samuel L Jackson from Pulp Fiction

[jerryd]

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:Nearly choked on my yoghurt.


I no speakie, ding dong wanna bong loo loo pha caru, I have also tried your post in google translator as well, but there is no English interpretation.


I thought this was a bit politer than quoting Samuel L Jackson from Pulp Fiction

[BigJon]

I seem to recall that stroking the TD5 has been done before. A twin turbo installation should be possible too.

The bottom line is : How much do you want to spend?

To do either of those things would be very expensive indeed. Especially when compared to the results gained from inexpensive chipping.

[Bush65]

Sounds like a cool project. It would be good to see the build up details and pics.

What twins are you going to use?

[stig0000]

Sounds like a cool project. It would be good to see the build up details and pics.

What twins are you going to use?

yer sorry about the English, i was on msn at the same time,:D
well the stroking would be a bit off for the engine i have at the moment is still very good, an has lots left in it,

all the work i can do my self so it would just geting the parts, an the fabricating im set with as well, i would make an new extractor for the turbo(s), i have no idear of what turbos to get, if somone can help me that would me mad, im guessing they will be tiny

im hoping this realy will be a one-of-a-kind t-td5:D

[ellard]

Hi there

Without sounding rude but.......WHY (as I thought the TD5 was quite powerfull)

My next question - and what do you hope to achieve?

Last time I looked the speed limit is (well in SA) is still 110 and most defenders will do this all day everyday.

One thing for sure when you look at Land Rover History, they were in the early days were well underpowered (correction powerfull enough offroad but lacking on the road).

With history on my side majority of the modifications done usually has a chain reaction with the rest of the drive train causing malfunction and breakages (could this potentially happen to the defender drive line)

Well its my views

Wayne

[spudboy]

Yeah - What Wayne said ^^^

Once you start mucking with the basic engine configuration you say goodbye to a pile of cash for (usually) temperamental results. Think: extra heat from 2 turbos, so bigger radiator, bigger intercooler (2 of them maybe?), the list goes on.....

If you want a fast car, buy one that goes fast to start with.

[rijidij]

An easier solution might be to fit a single 'variable vane turbo' which should give good results with reduced lag and good torque right across the rev range, without pushing the limits of the engine too much. VNT Info (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/isuzu-landy-enthusiasts-section/82218-vnt-turbo-info.html)

Murray

[PAT303]

The VNT's make all the other set-ups obselete.It would be my one and only choice,BigJohn made a very good point also. Pat

[rick130]

'Lara' from Belgium on lr4x4 has a stroked, VNT Td5 in a 90 with obscene amounts of torque.
Wander over there and do some reading. He also kept snapping Maxi axles like pretzels apparently, so ended up getting the axle supplier to Williams GP Engineering to turn some up out of some unobtanium, heat treated by Q in between jobs for 007.

Apparently they hold up now.

Mere mortals would just use D60 side gears in a Sals, bore out the stub axles and use some quality US made 35 spline D60 axles and save a few thousand $.

<edit> http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php'showtopic=1468&view=&hl=TD5%20crank&fromsearch=1
258bhp @ 4000 and 430lb/ft torque @ 1750
Steel 4340 crank 100mm Stroke
Steel EN24 Connecting rods, 5.5mm shorter than standard,
Modified standard size pistons,
Raised compression from 19.5 to 20.5:1
Modified oil spray jets,
Ported head with 1mm larger inlet valves,
Ported and matched inlet manifold,
EGR removed,
Tubular exhaust manifold made to match
Garret GT25/59V Variable vane turbo
1.8 Bar boost (26psi)
(Originally done at 1.5 bar and very black)
JJF tuned ECU
Free flowing exhaust system, (still a little restrictive probably)
High tensile head studs,
High tensile main bearing bolts,
Large intercooler from JE Eng, (soldered core, not bonded)
Fabricated stainless boost pipes with heavy lips to stop from blowing off under boost.
ZF HP24e Auto box with race internals and 12 inch torque converter.
Self made halfshafts in Maraging 300 as everything else snapped within 10 minutes of use.

[rick130]

And Dobbo, gives us some bloody warning next time, unlike Jerry's warm yoghurt moment, I nearly spat 'erbal tea all over the bloody monitor......

[Psimpson7]

As Rick says, I would think Lara's is the most modified, powerful, TD5 ever made. Its a 2.8l from memory. Truly awesome car in every way.

[dobbo]

And Dobbo, gives us some bloody warning next time, unlike Jerry's warm yoghurt moment, I nearly spat 'erbal tea all over the bloody monitor......

Not the 'erbal


try Chai, it doesn't stick to monitors

[lardy]

jaguar used two in its version of the tdv6 , you dont use two in the disco tdv6 2.7 because you want to be able to achieve low down torque for rock crawling or towing a three and a half tonne trailer.
however the new version of this engine the 3.0 tdv6 which is the bored and stroked version of the former, does use two turbochargers though not in a way that has ever been feautured on an engine like this before.
the engine is fitted with a single vgt that is much smaller than normal as it is really suited to an engine of only half the the size but it works well at low revs and gives superb performance and quick response. this is joined by a FGT -fixed geometry turbo at engine speeds over 400 rpm and together they go on to produce the boost needed for higher engine speeds.
Whilst twin turbos are common enough especially on bigger engines this is the first use of the unique parralel sequential turbo system.
Land Rover claim the system is the first of it's type to be fitted to a V-engine anywhere in the world.......so when you selling your defender should i start saving now?

[Bush65]

jaguar used two in its version of the tdv6 , you dont use two in the disco tdv6 2.7 because you want to be able to achieve low down torque for rock crawling or towing a three and a half tonne trailer.
however the new version of this engine the 3.0 tdv6 which is the bored and stroked version of the former, does use two turbochargers though not in a way that has ever been feautured on an engine like this before.
the engine is fitted with a single vgt that is much smaller than normal as it is really suited to an engine of only half the the size but it works well at low revs and gives superb performance and quick response. this is joined by a FGT -fixed geometry turbo at engine speeds over 400 rpm and together they go on to produce the boost needed for higher engine speeds.
Whilst twin turbos are common enough especially on bigger engines this is the first use of the unique parralel sequential turbo system.
Land Rover claim the system is the first of it's type to be fitted to a V-engine anywhere in the world.......so when you selling your defender should i start saving now?
I think Land Rovers Marketing/Advertising people are using the truth carelessly if they are making those claims.

[isuzurover]

I think Land Rovers Marketing/Advertising people are using the truth carelessly if they are making those claims.

Indeed...

One of the most technically advanced diesel engines in the world, the new LR-TDV6 Advanced Sequential Turbo Diesel engine features unique parallel sequential turbochargers. Used for the first time in a V-engine, these optimise responsiveness by delivering increased Torque at very low revolutions.


However I note they are careful with their wording. They could just be saying they are the only engine using these specific turbochargers in sequential configuration.

http://www.landrover.co.uk/gb/en/vehicles/discovery-3/features-and-specifications/engine-and-transmission.htm?page=1

[Barefoot Dave]

G'Day, Stig0000.
As the others have already stated, your goal sounds very time consuming and expensive. Even doing the fab yourself, you are going to have upgrade the entire intake and exhaust systems and reprogramme the computer to suit. Yet, by doing this with the standard Turbo, you will see some great gains anyway!
If you are looking for 600nm+ of torque, you may as well go for a Barra Ford XR6T package, for the same price as your custom crank. They put out 550nm at 2000rpm standard, way exceeding the TD5s 340? at 1750ish. So, you won't be missing any low end pull. I've seen complete (incl. comp and all sensors) packages for ~$6k.

If you still want to go TTD5 (T2D5?), give the CT12 snails off a Toyota 1JZ motor a go. You should be able to pick 'em up for a pittance as the street machiners ditch them for steel compressor wheel replacements(big rev reliability).
The 1JZ is a 2.5lt petrol, with sequential turbos, made for vehicles in the 1800kg range, hence designed for torque. It'll mean a fidlly bit of fab for you, but we all need a hobby, I guess ; ))
I hope this helps.
Dave.

[rocket_rod]

I think you could order a duramax and try to wedge it under the bonnet (it might stick out a bit) then problem solved, 300+hp, VGT, common rail with solenoid/piezo injectors straight out of the box. Some jokers in the US are getting 1000hp out of them, though I don't know why someone needs to do this, I just change gears to get up hills :).

[B-A-S]

We have developed a VNT turbo for the TD5 that is a bolt on fitment to the existing manifold and exhaust, wth only a slight modification to the oil return pipe.

It will deliver 19psi from arround 1400rpm all the way throught the rev range

http://www.bellautoservices.co.uk/VNT1.jpg


Pete

[stig0000]

We have developed a VNT turbo for the TD5 that is a bolt on fitment to the existing manifold and exhaust, wth only a slight modification to the oil return pipe.

It will deliver 19psi from arround 1400rpm all the way throught the rev range

http://www.bellautoservices.co.uk/VNT1.jpg


Pete
that looks very nice,,, has it been fitted to a td5 yet to see how it gose, im keen to give it a go, il pm you if you like

[B-A-S]

Hi
Yes we have had fitted to 5 developement cars for the last 12 month.
Results are superb with final power output depending on the modifications already done to the car.


attahed is a picture of ne of the dyno runs we made on the first developement turbos, we have laterd a few things since to make the car hold torque longer.
of coruse this is with a remap also and notjust the turbo.

We are now selling this turbo for 670gbp+shipping costs.
This unit is exchange for your standard salvagable td5 turbo or it carries a 250gbp surcharge.


Pete

[Vern]

what turbo is that?

[B-A-S]

what turbo is that?


Its a turbo we have made for the td5 dedicated to be a VNT.


Pete

[stig0000]

well i am still realy into it and looking at every option, but i now have a new way of geting her to go, i am able to get my hands on a turbo of a tdv6, the only diff is that a tdv6 is 2.7L an td5 is 2.5, so ovusly it has been made to work with 2.7L, but since its vv and all id to it take the electronic control off it and put a macnical actualtor on it, will it still run fine, with the .2 less of a L and been vv it wil work at alot lower revs, well in theroy,;)

but i can allso get hold of 1J turbos easy to, and since there desyned for 2.5L it could b the way to go

[stig0000]

well i am still realy into it and looking at every option, but i now have a new way of geting her to go, i am able to get my hands on a turbo of a tdv6, the only diff is that a tdv6 is 2.7L an td5 is 2.5, so ovusly it has been made to work with 2.7L, but since its vv and all id to it take the electronic control off it and put a macnical actualtor on it, will it still run fine, with the .2 less of a L and been vv it wil work at alot lower revs, well in theroy,;)

but i can allso get hold of 1J turbos easy to, and since there desyned for 2.5L it could b the way to go

[Bush65]

The turbo on the v6 is a Garrett GT2256V (712541-0001/2/3E).

TD5 has a Garrett GT2052 (452239-0003/4/5E).

So GT22... turbine is a little larger than GT20... but the variable geometry will most likely still make it effectively smaller at low revs, and ...

The GT..56. compressor is larger than the GT..52. compressor. But you want it to be an upgrade don't you ;)

I used a GT2256V on a 300Tdi and they are 2.5 litre, so I see no problem with the turbo size on a TD5. What problems the extra boost pressure will create with the engine management is outside my experience.

This should be better plan than twins, but I wanted to see how you were going to divide 5 cylinders by 2 turbos - seems I will never find out :D

[spudboy]

... but I wanted to see how you were going to divide 5 cylinders by 2 turbos - seems I will never find out :D

Sequential turbos..... A big one for top end and a little one for quick response, both in line.

[stig0000]

well,,, i have 1J turbos and a tdv6 turbo, and i no the tdv6 one with VV would be beter, but how meny td5s do u no that have twins:D:D

so 1J turbos it is,

looking at the turbos theres a fear bit of room to play with in the fender, all i need to do is mod the oil lines and get coolent from the heater hoses, a adaption plate is been made so i can try and use the origanal manifold, at the same time im going to be doing the web cuts on the manifold,

and a 3" is going from the dump pipe all the way back and give the butifull sound of the 1J turbos, i love the sound of them,:D:D,, cant wate:D:D

hopefully soon il have a bigger intercooler and have the new hoses,

boost box and im trying to find some one who makes a dump valve for the td5s eny idears??

oh and of couse tombies ecu chip to top it off,:cool:

[Disco Mick]

I reckon a single VNT will effectively do the same job as a twin setup. The diffuser vanes angle to spin the impeller up quickly and then re angle to limit boost levels impeller speed. This lets you use a larger turbo but have no loss of low end boost or response yet have a much higher flowing turbo.

The whole thing takes up a lot less space than a twin setup and if done carefully will almost look factory.

Here's my VNT conversion. http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/69718-disco-td5-turbo-upgrade.html

It's got about 15,000Ks on it now and hasn't missed a beat. It's got no lag and makes plenty of power. Fuel economy is great too.

It's great fun to develop stuff and bolt on a lot of whiz bang parts but you have to be careful. You could end up spending a pile of cash on something that doesn't make that much improvement at the cost of reliability.

Cheers

Michael

[dobbo]

I'm really interested in this thread, but it's honestly giving me a headache trying to re read the posts and convert them to the queens english. So I'm giving up

[Hendrik]

If you have nothing useful to say about the thread at hand, then don't say anything at all.

[dobbo]

If you have nothing useful to say about the thread at hand, then don't say anything at all.


How about this then I'll translate Bush65's words into MOFOlish from english


In this universe 5 divided by 2 equals 2.5

In a TT setup described

No:1 cylinder on the TD5 will be fed by No:1 turbo

No:2 cylinder on the TD5 will be fed by No:1 turbo

No:4 cylinder on the TD5 will be fed by No:2 turbo

No:5 cylinder on the TD5 will be fed by No:2 turbo

No:3 cylinder on the TD5 will be fed by No:1 and No:2 turbo. He's a greedy little bastard. He deserves a spanking from matron.


Now this is where it gets interesting.



For a practical experiment at home, if your a parent of one grab a toddler, bib them up (this will get messy) and put them in a highchair on a non carpeted room. Now get the other side of your toddlers gene pool commonly referred to as a parent and the toddlers favorite dinner. Let us name this toddler cylinder number 3, not the best name in the world, lets say he was named by Angelina (this is the way her surname should be spelt) Jolly or something so it will sound believable.

Cylinder number 3's parents Mr and Mrs Turbo believe little Cyl is too skinny and little so they want to feed him as much as possible. This is not usually a problem but due to them being a bit "you know in the head" Cyl's parents are trying to shove two little spoons full of goodness into Cyl's little mouth, at the same time. Little Cyl doesn't like the way the spoons shovel food faster and faster into his little gob and decides to chuck it all up and have a tanty. A very costly, time consuming five figure tanty.

It's the automotive equivalent of DVDA, google it, I don't mean the band.

1 big MOFO turbo I can understand. The head of the engine might not, but it's all for show anyway.

It would be possible to fit 5 tiny little escargot sized turbines with razor sharp fins puffing like an asthmatic cat in a vacuum cleaner bag is a but it's all for show. I can see this one working for 5minutes (it won't fit in the engine bay) but it would work till one little escargot dies a horobbleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee deaaaattthhhhhh aaanddd thheeeee TTTTDDDD5555555 ssssooooouuuunnnnnddddsss likeeee aaaaa dddddackkkkk ddddddackkkk onnnnnnn aciddddd.


q: if I can produce an overspeed fault on a stock TD5 (and have the fault log to prove it) going down a long steep hill in 2h on 265/75/R16 and a 2T pay load pushing it. How the hell is the same engine going to handle a multiple turbine setup?

q: If someone else's chipped TD5 on a standard turbo can produce enough torque to twist maxi axles like platted pigtails on a girl guide why the hell would you need anymore turbines?

q: where are you going to remount the centerfugal and normal oil filters? Fit the larger or second intercooler? Oil lines etc?


In conclusion I'm filing this under O for Ogjonian in thought and implementation.

[whitakerb]

How about this then I'll translate Bush65's words into MOFOlish from english


In this universe 5 divided by 2 equals 2.5

In a TT setup described

No:1 cylinder on the TD5 will be fed by No:1 turbo

No:2 cylinder on the TD5 will be fed by No:1 turbo

No:4 cylinder on the TD5 will be fed by No:2 turbo

No:5 cylinder on the TD5 will be fed by No:2 turbo

No:3 cylinder on the TD5 will be fed by No:1 and No:2 turbo. He's a greedy little bastard. He deserves a spanking from matron.


Now this is where it gets interesting.



For a practical experiment at home, if your a parent of one grab a toddler, bib them up (this will get messy) and put them in a highchair on a non carpeted room. Now get the other side of your toddlers gene pool commonly referred to as a parent and the toddlers favorite dinner. Let us name this toddler cylinder number 3, not the best name in the world, lets say he was named by Angelina (this is the way her surname should be spelt) Jolly or something so it will sound believable.

Cylinder number 3's parents Mr and Mrs Turbo believe little Cyl is too skinny and little so they want to feed him as much as possible. This is not usually a problem but due to them being a bit "you know in the head" Cyl's parents are trying to shove two little spoons full of goodness into Cyl's little mouth, at the same time. Little Cyl doesn't like the way the spoons shovel food faster and faster into his little gob and decides to chuck it all up and have a tanty. A very costly, time consuming five figure tanty.

It's the automotive equivalent of DVDA, google it, I don't mean the band.

1 big MOFO turbo I can understand. The head of the engine might not, but it's all for show anyway.

It would be possible to fit 5 tiny little escargot sized turbines with razor sharp fins puffing like an asthmatic cat in a vacuum cleaner bag is a but it's all for show. I can see this one working for 5minutes (it won't fit in the engine bay) but it would work till one little escargot dies a horobbleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee deaaaattthhhhhh aaanddd thheeeee TTTTDDDD5555555 ssssooooouuuunnnnnddddsss likeeee aaaaa dddddackkkkk ddddddackkkk onnnnnnn aciddddd.


q: if I can produce an overspeed fault on a stock TD5 (and have the fault log to prove it) going down a long steep hill in 2h on 265/75/R16 and a 2T pay load pushing it. How the hell is the same engine going to handle a multiple turbine setup?

q: If someone else's chipped TD5 on a standard turbo can produce enough torque to twist maxi axles like platted pigtails on a girl guide why the hell would you need anymore turbines?

q: where are you going to remount the centerfugal and normal oil filters? Fit the larger or second intercooler? Oil lines etc?


In conclusion I'm filing this under O for Ogjonian in thought and implementation.


HAHA :D

This place just wouldn't be the same without you.

As you were...

[Slunnie]

In conclusion I'm filing this under O for Ogjonian in thought and implementation.
Dammit Dobbo, now that is a low blow! It's like telling Yo mama jokes at an Orphanage!

[stig0000]

I reckon a single VNT will effectively do the same job as a twin setup. The diffuser vanes angle to spin the impeller up quickly and then re angle to limit boost levels impeller speed. This lets you use a larger turbo but have no loss of low end boost or response yet have a much higher flowing turbo.

The whole thing takes up a lot less space than a twin setup and if done carefully will almost look factory.

Here's my VNT conversion. http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/69718-disco-td5-turbo-upgrade.html

It's got about 15,000Ks on it now and hasn't missed a beat. It's got no lag and makes plenty of power. Fuel economy is great too.


yer iv read ur thread on your turbo,, its a very very nice job, and seen it has sorta made me want to do this, very inpressed with the workman ship,
i just hope mine terns out as well
It's great fun to develop stuff and bolt on a lot of whiz bang parts but you have to be careful. You could end up spending a pile of cash on something that doesn't make that much improvement at the cost of reliability.

Cheers

Michael


yer iv read ur thread on your turbo,, its a very very nice job, and seen it has sorta made me want to do this, very inpressed with the workman ship,
i just hope mine terns out as well

[Poley410]

Hi I'm new to this forum and I was wondering if anyone has put a sc36 turbo on a defender 90 and what bhp does it achieve?