Steering issues.

[chris1983rangie]

G'day,

I got the chance today to take my Landy for its first test drive.
Everything seemed ok besides a steering issue.

the steering seems a bit stiff and is hard to get it to self center if that makes any sense.

i rebuilt the relay unit and also replaced the steering column with an Ex-army one new from a 2a.

is the relay meant to be filled with oil to the top of the unit?

i have new swivel hubs with railko bushes, swivel seals and have adjusted them according to the manual.

has anyone had this problem before?

appreciate your help.

Cheers,

Chris

[JDNSW]

Are you comparing the steering to other Series Landrovers? Many people have little experience except with modern vehicles with power steering!

First thing to check is tyre pressures and sizes. This vehicle was designed for no bigger than 7.00x16 and originally 6.00x16, although the Series 2 with the same steering went to 7.50x16.

Assuming the steering really is bad, though, these are the likely problems/fixes.

Check whether the steering is stiff - jack up both front wheels and check if the steering turns easily - with the wheels off the ground the steering should turn easily from the steering wheel, and it should be just possible to turn the steering by pulling on road wheel. If you cannot do this, disconnect the drag link from the relay unit to check whether the problem is the swivels or the relay/steering box, and if it is the latter, disconnect the box to check which it is. Steering box should be virtually free of friction (it has got oil in it?). The relay unit should be full of oil. It is not adjustable, but damping should be correct provided the bushes were oiled when you assembled it, even if it does not have oil in it. To fill, remove two top screws and pump oil in one hole until it comes out the other.

If the swivels seem stiff disconnect the track rod and recheck the preload on them. You can get a good idea without undoing the seals - should be around 14lbs with the seals in place.

A less likely but possible problem is incorrect geometry due to sagged front springs or the wrong shackles, or even steering arms on the relay or steering box at the wrong angles.

Hope this helps,

John

[chris1983rangie]

hi John,

yeah im comparing it to my S2a the steering doesnt stick on that when i drive but on my Series 1 it sticks. & i didnt fill the relay with any oil at all, i just squeezed a bit of grease in there with the greasegun.

I know the preload on my swivels is around 13lbs as i checked them with my weight pull measuring tool thing. but i will check it again.

my steering box is full of that honey type vintage steering box lube from Penrite.

ill run through these checks and most likely should find the problem soon.
I also forgot to mention in my first post. does my steering problem have anything to to with the toe in - toe out....?

thanks,

ChrisB)

[vnx205]

Does the Series I have the same adjustment on the steering box as a Series III?

If so, when the worm drive wears a bit, it is possible to adjust it up so that it feels good when centered, but is too tight on the part that gets less wear. In that case, it does what I think you are describing.

[chazza]

If Chris's car has the original steering box it is the worm and nut type, which unfortunately has no means of adjusting for wear.

Try filling the relay with EP90 Chris; if you disconnect the steering rods at the relay you should be able to quickly see if that is the problem by pushing and pulling on the arms,

Cheers Charlie

[JDNSW]

Toe-in/out will not make the steering heavy or stiff unless it is grossly in error. Specification is 1.2-2.4mm toe in, But I have seen it suggested that it is better with none or slight toe-out for radial tyres.

Since it was a new steering box I assumed that the adjustment on it was correct, but if the adjustment on the pitman shaft is too tight, this will make the steering tight. It should be filled with EP-90, not semi-liquid grease, but this would make little difference. The relay not being oil filled may be the problem - grease will not lubricate the bushes properly. I assume you oiled the bushes before assembly? Same for the swivels.

There is a slight possibility of one or more tie rod end being partly seized, you can check this by rotating each rod on its axis - should be easy to do by hand. Also, while doing this, check that all the rods (box-relay, relay-swivel and tie rod) have the joints at each end in the same plane, as otherwise they may bind.

John

[chris1983rangie]

hi Charlie & John,

I will top the relay unit up with EP90. to awnser you Question John.. Nope, i didn't oil the bushes upon assembly........:o.......
Now I remember a year ago when i rebuilt the relay unit, i didnt put any oil on the bushes, i installed them dry. :o
ill also check all the tie rods for seizure and binding too.

Thanks again for your help fellas...! :)

Chris

[chris1983rangie]

G'day,

I had some time this evening to have a look at my steering issue.
i had the front end jacked up and tried to move the road wheels left and right
and no budge. so i disconnected the steerin rod at the bottom of the relay & it moves quite easily. So this means the Swivels are ok but still need to check the preload.

i undone the 2 nuts on the relay unit from top side, and began pumping EP90 oil into it. took about 250mls of oil before it started to drip out of one of the holes.
so now i move the steering wheel but is slightly better but still has that sticking feeling.

would the oil soak the bushes over a couple of days?

well at least i know its the Relay because i know i assembled it dry.:angel:
it cant be the steering column piece i bought it NOS from series 2a ex-army unit.

Chris

[JDNSW]

Sounds like you have found the problem. The oil will eventually soak in, but I don't know how long it will take - a couple of days may not be near long enough. Some movement will help - the main access to the rubbing surface will be via the split in the bush, and swinging the steering back and forth will spread this over the conical steel surface. It will then soak into the immediate surface of the bush, and will need to be repeated a number of times.

I would leave the drag link off, and swing the steering lock to lock every couple of hours for the two days.

Hope this helps, but I've never been in exactly this situation!

John

[chris1983rangie]

i let it sit for a week & if it doesnt improve ill have to take the relay unit out and have a look at it. I have a two other relay units on the shelf as spares.

as for the main Steering Column unit, how easily is that meant to move?
i still need to test that too.

thanks,

Chris

[JDNSW]

i let it sit for a week & if it doesnt improve ill have to take the relay unit out and have a look at it. I have a two other relay units on the shelf as spares.

as for the main Steering Column unit, how easily is that meant to move?
i still need to test that too.

thanks,

Chris

Main steering box, with nothing connected to it, should give virtually no resistance when turning the steering wheel.

Note that the relay unit is supposed to give some damping, so it will always have some resistance.

John

[chris1983rangie]

ok got some good news.....i fixed it.

My relay unit is ok i checked the preload its approx 12 to 14 lbs.
and the oil soaked in the bushes too.

2 problems causing the stiff steering ended up being the Swivels and the Main Steering box.

i undone the all the steering linkage arms to check the pre load on the swivels
and both side measured approx 20lbs...........:eek:
so i add 0.50" shims tightened the 4 nuts on the arms and re checked the pre load with my sping weight thingy and got a reading between 12 to 14lbs on both sides.

next was the main steering column unit which is new ex army 2a unit. And these are known as Recirculating Ball Steering Boxes. they are adjustable on the lower right side there is a lock nut and a inner bolt, i loosened the locknut and undone the bolt until the stiffness freed up while moving the steering wheel left and right. i did this while all the steering rods were disconnected.

i also replaced my Tie Rod Boots as some of them had cracked and was a good chance to change them while i had the linkage rods disconnected.
ok so everything is re assembled and now the steering turns a treat.

now as soon as i finish the brakes, im out for another test drive......!

Does anyone know how to set the Toe in & Toe out....? i found this website the person made their own tool to measure from a piece of angle screwed to a block of wood one for each side that goes on the side of the tyre. it has slots for the measuring tape to go through. heres the web link http://www.hillmanimages.com/912/adj_toein.html im gona try it.

cheers,

Chris;)

[JDNSW]

Checking toe-in is really very easy you don't need a tape, just a ruler. I actually did it recently on the 110, procedure is just the same. The only apparatus you need is some sort of a rigid crossbar with two point about half the tyre diameter long. I used a bit of "loxangle" with two other short bits bolted to it. It helps if one side is adjustable, but the whole setup needs to be rigid enough to keep its measurement while you move it between front and back.

Jack up each front wheel and spin the wheel against a sharp bit of chalk (or just a sharp point) to give a line to measure against (this removes any effect of bent wheels, out of shape tyres etc). Make sure the wheels are in exactly straight ahead by sighting along the outside of the front tyre each side and ensuring it lines up the same relative to the rear tyre. Set the pointers to match the tyre marks at the front, then move the pointers to the back and the difference from the mark when the other side is on the mark will be the toe in/out. Adjust as necessary and recheck twice, making sure you are certain whether what you are measuring is toe in or out.

Note that it is not worth even trying to adjust toe in if there is any free play on the tierod ends of the track rod or the swivels or the wheel bearings. Also, if you don't have the wheels straight ahead the results will be wrong.

John

[chris1983rangie]

Hi John,

i already did the toe adjustment with the measuring tape and a bit of angle screwed to a block of wood and rest against each side of the tyre. i set the Toe in Out to 0.00mm for now.

however i will try your method as it seems quite simple to do.

i took the Landy for a Drive today and i can say Wow! what a difference. it steers really well. im very happy even the brakes work well except for the rear trailing shoes grap in reverse :eek: theres a thread on this "Leaking Brakes" http://www.aulro.com/afvb/series-i-land-rover-enthusiasts-section/87228-leaking-brakes.html

anyways thanks again for you help

cheers,

Chris:cool: