Caravanning in Australia

[Crackerjack]

Can anyone summerize the caravan scene in Australia, and about the sort of vans you use. I have been looking at vans on the internet for sale in Australia and am amazed by 1. the price (very expensive) and, 2. the weight (I have seen vans weighing over 3000kg) while a large van in the UK would weigh 1300 to 1400kg, what is the average sort of van people use and what sort of tow vehicle do you use.

Mark in the UK

[Chops]

Mark, a lot would depend on what you want to do, where you want to go and what creature comforts you want. Water, food and your bits and peices would would also play a fair bit in that too, as to how big and heavy a van you want to tow around too.
I live in a caravan park in Melbourne, and there seem to be a lot on the road "travelling" with just single a axle, (not sure what weight these are), but dont see anywhere near as many with duel axles, but and I guess these are a lot heavier too.
And as for a "tow vehicle",,,, theres only one choice thats right,,:D

[spudboy]

Hi Mark,

I don't caravan, but my mum does, and from what I have seen the weight factor is taken up by excessive "bloat".

Her caravan has a shower, a microwave, a flat screen TV, toilet, solar panels, etc etc etc. She even takes proper Royal Doulton crockery :eek: Gawd knows what the thing weighs when it's full of all their stuff.

The "grey Nomads" as they are known here like their creature comforts, because they have retired and got decent super payouts they buy the biggest and the best.

They can pull up anywhere and be quite civilised. Different to camping/caravanning in the UK where you mostly stop in organised caravan parks, which seemed pretty "high density" to me when I was there, but that was 20 years ago.

Anyway - that's my thoughts, looking in from the outside.

Cheers
David

[JDNSW]

As an observer of the annual winter migration to warmer climates that passes here heading north about March and south about October, it seems to me that the usual van is a tandem axle one, close to 10m in length and probably weighing at least two tonnes. The tow vehicle is usually a Landcruiser station wagon, or, for the larger ones possibly a Ford 250, although you see all types.

But this is not the whole caravanning scene, although its probably where the money is. As well as this you get the more adventurous types, usually with a smaller, often folding van, usually with a six cylinder sedan such as a Commodore or Falcon pulling it, although again, you get all types. And then there are the offroad ones - these will be specialist offroad caravans or camper trailers, costing an amazing amount, and often astoundingly heavy. They will invariably be pulled by a four wheel drive, most commonly Japanese, but there are Landrovers.

Compared to the UK, you have to remember that distances are much larger, and the vans have to stand up to much rougher road surfaces even when you stay on the bitumen. Caravans designed for offroad work have to be very rugged. One characteristic of Australian drivers is that unlike other drivers from other countries, most tend to travel at high speed over very rough roads instead of slowing down (because of the distances involved), and this applies even when towing.

John

[richard4u2]

if you are going to do the nomad thing and live in the van best get a dual axel and they are like a small flat because they stay were there is no facilitiues to speak of if you are just going for a week or to a single axel pop top would be ok as far as the vehicle goes you would have to look at what you are allowed to pull by that vehicle specs and i think ours are different to yours ? tap in "the trading post" on google

[waynep]

If you look in any caravan park on the major tourist routes you'll see all sizes and shapes of vans, camper trailers, mobile homes, 5th wheelers etc. I'm talking about the itinerant travellers here not the pemanents ( which is another story in itself).

Seems what was seen as a "luxury item" 10 years ago is now becoming almost standard fare ( like toilets, showers, aircon, satellite TV ).

We still have our little tent and it is interesting watching the antics of some of these big rigs setting up- makes for interesting evening entertainment over a beer. :)

[StephenF10]

Australian vans are normally built on a separate ladder chassis and have solid old-fashion spring steel suspension so are heavier than the equivalent-size Euro vans. Add to that things like a full-size fridge, shower, toilet, hot water system, solar panels and a couple of big batteries and it's not hard to go over 3 tonnes for a big, self-contained van. However, there are plenty below the 2 tonne mark. Although the common 6-cylinder Holden and Falcon passenger cars are rated to tow up to about two tonnes, you're better off with a 4WD.

The weight has lead to over-ride braked being phased out in favour of electric brakes that are operated by a brake controller in the tow vehicle that automatically senses deceleration and applies the van brakes. All vans must have a rated safety chain connecting them to the tow vehicle, and those over two tonnes must also have a breakaway braking system. The high nose weight can be relieved by using a weight distribution hitch, which consists of a couple of spring bars between the car and van that apply a constant upward force at the tow point and keep the rig level. Some vehicles with air suspension (including LR) prohibit the use of these hitches as they upset the suspension electronics.

All vans have built-in water tanks and normally have mains-pressure plumbing. Water is supplied by connecting a hose from the van to a nearby tap. No more rolling drums of water around! Sites (pitches) at caravans parks usually provide electricity, mains pressure water and a drain point for waste water.

My van is probably fairly "average", being a 17'6" tandem pop-top weighing about 1500kg, towed by a D2 TD5. It has an air-conditioner but no shower or toilet. It is about the size where dual axles tend to take over from singles. With that weight, I prefer to spread it over four wheels and (so far) have avoided tyre and wheel bearing problems.

Stephen.

[Bigbjorn]

If you plan to stay in caravan parks, try to avod the ones with a high percentage of permanent residents. Permanents unforunately seem to have many members of the feral human and welfare dependant communities.

[richard4u2]

If you plan to stay in caravan parks, try to avod the ones with a high percentage of permanent residents. Permanents unforunately seem to have many members of the feral human and welfare dependant communities.
in western australia most of the permanents are age pensioners around perth the country ones the cockys have a van permanent at a park and usually just use them at christmas

[Heggs]

If you plan to stay in caravan parks, try to avod the ones with a high percentage of permanent residents. Permanents unforunately seem to have many members of the feral human and welfare dependant communities.

thats a bit harsh I lived in a caravan in the Pilbara for a year and loved it,

[Chucaro]

Here in Bundy we have the white brigade from down south during winter time.
The vans are like the second home from them They stay at the same place for 12 weeks or more and some of them come to the same caravan park and spot for the last 10 years or more.
regarding towing vehicle and interesting note is that while I was on one of the parks for 4 month during the building of my house only one person used a Holden Comodore for towing.
All the rest of the sedans were Ford Falcon. I asked why and the reply was that the Comodore do not have the auto transmision and body strong as the Ford :eek:

The Pajeros are very popular here! The old fellows keep out of the Discos because the dealers net work is terrible and no support :(

[MarknDeb]

Gday Mark, well if you would like to see what goes into one of those heavy vans go to Spinifex caravans (http://www.spinifexcaravans.com.au) and have a look at some of the pics on the custom vans section. We build the vans to cope with our road conditions, in some parts of the country you can do 5 to 600 KLM's and really bad corrigated road with bull dust upto 1ft deep, even some of our HWY's are unbelievable, when we did our trip from Brisbane to Winton last year, every stopwe did we had to put the mattress back onto the bed :o and the road is all bitumen :o:o.

Ok questions you have to ask is are you free camping or mostly staying in caravan parks and some free camping.

If Free camping: look at vans with full ensuites, 5 water tanks (2 drinking & 3 shower/toilet) and 2 way hot water system these van weight more and can vary from 2000kg to 3500kg. Van of this config would best be in the size from 18ft6 to the max 21FT (internal).
If staying caravan parks mostly: i would look at a van 16FT6 up about 18FT6 (internal). with and external ensuite shower and porter potty, 4 water tanks, 2 drinking/2 shower and 2 way hot water system.

I have a little info on my website you may find helpfull or a link or 2 to site that may help and that is caravanninginaus - Welcome** Caravanning in Australia ENTER HERE (http://caravanninginaus.googlepages.com/).

I hope some of this helps and iam sure someone will find negatives with what i have said but thats great it can give a different light on things and be constructive.

Hope to run into you on the road when you come out to do your travels;)

[Bigbjorn]

thats a bit harsh I lived in a caravan in the Pilbara for a year and loved it,

For a while I was a Social Security Field Officer. My colleagues and I spent a lot of time in caravan parks. I write not of tourst/holiday parks or those that take only age pensioners in their own relocatable units, but the common urban park that takes all comers, customers vans, investors rental vans, park owned vans. Go and have a look around a few and you will see what I mean. This would be an eye opener for those who have not before seen the sloppy end of our society. Some of these parks are absolutely third world conditions.

[Chucaro]

during my touring on the Riverina few years ago we have very bad experiences in Waga, Albury and Shepperton.
On the ones in Shepperton the police used to come every hour or so :eek:
We lasted only 2 days there :(

[djam1]

thats a bit harsh I lived in a caravan in the Pilbara for a year and loved it,

LOL if you lived in the Pilbara in a caravan park for a year you probably spent more than most people earn in a year on rent

[Crackerjack]

Thanks everyone for your answers, there is some great info here and please keep it coming it is making an interesting thread.
Caravanning is certainly different in Oz than the UK.

[Bigbjorn]

during my touring on the Riverina few years ago we have very bad experiences in Waga, Albury and Shepperton.
On the ones in Shepperton the police used to come every hour or so :eek:
We lasted only 2 days there :(

My wife and I were touring and in Griffith the council officer asked us if we were fruit pickers or tourists when we went in to book a camp site. On being told we were tourists she said that she would put us in the downtown park near the shopping centre on an irrigation canal, not the one at the showgrounds which "was full of pickers and pretty rough". Went up and had a look, it was bloody rough, and as Chucaro wrote, seemed to have constant police visitations.

[richard4u2]

thats a bit harsh I lived in a caravan in the Pilbara for a year and loved it,
the parks in wa are way different to those in qld

[MarknDeb]

This is a very usefull book to get Free and Budget Top Camp Sites, Best Camping Grounds and Caravan Tourist Holiday Parks Australia (http://www.campsaustraliawide.com/) and this site to check on nearly all caravan parks, iam not sure if they list free camp sites but certainly wont hurt to check Australian Caravan Park Reports, Caravanning and 4WD (http://home.vicnet.net.au/~badger04/). Yes there are certainly bad parks around and iam sure you could tell stories about some over in the UK. We have never stayed in a caravan park like some have mentioned and we have stayed in a few over the last 7 years.
This is something i did when i had spare time and can be good to give an idea on where the caravan parks actually are http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/download.php?Number=1142268 - Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/download.php?Number=1142268&t=k&om=1)

[JDNSW]

I went to a clearing sale today - and on the way to and from saw one caravan - it was a Victorian registered Landcruiser 100 pulling a tandem axle van about 18ft long. Didn't get a good look at the driver/passengers though, but I would guess grey haired.

John

[Sprint]

i know the grey nomads cop a fair bit of abuse over the radio's around here...... the monumentally stupid things you see them doing though makes me wonder why they arent forced to hand in thier licences before being permenantly shackled to the floor in a nursing home

[Heggs]

LOL if you lived in the Pilbara in a caravan park for a year you probably spent more than most people earn in a year on rent


yep you are spot on there:)

[Chucaro]

i know the grey nomads cop a fair bit of abuse over the radio's around here...... the monumentally stupid things you see them doing though makes me wonder why they arent forced to hand in thier licences before being permenantly shackled to the floor in a nursing home

Give them a fair go, one day after you retire you would be like to be on the road as well. :D
One thing for sure if you do not go early to the other side, then you will be white hair as well ;)

[Sprint]

I dont object to people wanting to travel and see the countryside

What I do object to is the grey nomads disregard through either ignorance or sheer stupidity of road rules and general good driving practice

1: Landcruiser wagon and large, tandem axle caravan decides to make a U-turn, forcing traffic in both directions to pull up and wait for him to creep around, note the proximity of intersections and think of the potential for accidents
2: Idiot in a patrol ute towing a caravan attempted to make a u-turn but had to stop to give way to traffic going the other way, caravan blocked eastbound traffic for over 5 minutes, a roundabout is easily visible less than 500m further east of where he decided to turn
3: Pair of idiots pulled over to check thier maps, second caravan blocking 1.5 lanes of a side road
4: Nissan Pathfinder and caravan make a right turn across 2 lanes of oncoming traffic, not from the turning lane in thecentre island, but from where they were PARALELL parked in the ANGLE parking on the side of the road!
5: Just imagine someone with a commodore and caravan following the red line.....

1-4 have happened in the past fortnight on my daily trip around town on freight pickup/delivery......

and people wonder why i support the idea that to tow a caravan you should have 20 years experience as a roadtrain driver and the MC licence that comes with it

[Chucaro]

There are a lot of bad drivers out there including the "Pros" which many of them are the cowboys on the roads!
Not to mention the Sydney couries, P plates, etc.
I guess that the solution will be a compulsory 2 years motor cycle riding experience and then be able to drive a car.
In the 2 wheels they will learn to be awere of what it is on the road. If not they will be not with us any more, and have a long rest 6 foot under ;)

[Sprint]

Granted, there are many bad drivers out there, but it seems to be the grey nomads who have the worst attitude to what they do than anyone else

as for the options listed earlier, local betting has it i wont live long enough to get many more than the half dozen white hairs i've been given by retard drivers already.....

[Redback]

Here are a couple of caravan website forums that may help you.

Australian - Caravan | Motorhome | Campers Forum (http://www.supertramp.com.au/forum/default.asp)

Forum @ ExplorOz (http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/Default.aspx)

welcome to campertrailers.org website home to Australian off road camper trailers since 2001 (http://www.campertrailers.org/)

General Chat Section - Caravan & Motorhome Forum - RV Tips, Travel, Camping, Swap, Social Chat.


These are info sites

Discussion Forums - Caravan Parks and Tourist Park Accommodation Australia, Go See Australia Directory (http://www.goseeaustralia.com.au/forumspage.asp)

Caravanning News (http://www.caravanningnews.com/links.htm)


Another option is a camper trailer, these range from your typical tent type up to the pop top style.

For info on these.

MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum - Index (http://myswag.org/forum/index.php)

Australia4WD Forum (http://forum.australia4wd.com/index.php?&CODE=00)

welcome to campertrailers.org website home to Australian off road camper trailers since 2001 (http://www.campertrailers.org/)

All manufacturers make on road, semi off road and off road versions of vans and campers, the choice is endless..

Baz,

[Bundalene]

We've recently returned from a trip to the NT and passed hundreds of caravans, campers and motor homes of all shapes & sizes.

We passed more on the way up at the end of July ... well over 800 in 4 days driving, and that number didn't include ones in Caravan Parks. On the way back, just over a week ago, we didn't see as many.

Most of the free roadside camp areas were full from around 4pm - with some people sitting around for "happy hour" watching the world go by.

[richard4u2]

We've recently returned from a trip to the NT and passed hundreds of caravans, campers and motor homes of all shapes & sizes.

We passed more on the way up at the end of July ... well over 800 in 4 days driving, and that number didn't include ones in Caravan Parks. On the way back, just over a week ago, we didn't see as many.

Most of the free roadside camp areas were full from around 4pm - with some people sitting around for "happy hour" watching the world go by.
or watching queensland couriers running around circles pulling thier hair out :D

[Sprint]

not a courier..... just doing the morning freight pickup at work lol

just as well i dont take my own car, theres a maglite down the side of the seat thats already claimed a scalp....

[Crackerjack]

I have also noticed that on some random photos and web sites that some vans have the wheels nearer the rear of the van and not in the centre, surely this must put a hell of a strain on the tow vehicle.

Supreme Eclipse Caravans - Gallery (http://www.supremecaravans.com.au/caravans/eclipse/gallery.php)#

This is only an example but I have seen the wheels furthur back than this.

[Vern]

Here's ours Karakampa - Home (http://www.karakampa.com.au/) :)
14'6", shower, toilet, hot water, aircon, weighs around 1280kg, double bed, lcd tv, dvd, etc...

[Chucaro]

There is a good information HERE (http://www.caravanandcampingsa.com.au/page.asp?parentid=22&parent2id=95) about weight and size of caravans and vehicles to tow them

[JDNSW]

I have also noticed that on some random photos and web sites that some vans have the wheels nearer the rear of the van and not in the centre, surely this must put a hell of a strain on the tow vehicle.

Supreme Eclipse Caravans - Gallery (http://www.supremecaravans.com.au/caravans/eclipse/gallery.php)#

This is only an example but I have seen the wheels furthur back than this.

Yes, I've noticed this with some modern designs. But they are still balanced with a sensible download on the towbar, achieved by putting the heavy items (Fridge, stove, aircon, batteries, water tank etc) behind or over the wheels. The advantage is better handling and less dragging of the tail on uneven ground, driveways etc.

John

[rovers4]

Two of the important considerations are:
Try to have the weight of the loaded van less than the tow vehicle,
AND
Match the weight of the total rig (loaded van plus loaded vehicle plus occupants), against the power of the towing vehicle.
This is for:
1 Stability on bumpy surfaces;
2 Stability against cross winds and drafts from road trains;
3 Ability to travel at a reasonable speed (up to the posted limit) on the flat, and
4 Somewhere near that up hills.
The bigger trucks maintain the limit whatever the terrain.

Nothing worse than getting caught behind a van travelling well under the speed limit and not being able to pass. Not so bad if the speed is just under the limit. But no good either being over the limit - you'll get booked.

I don't think any real vanner in Aust. would use a non-turbo oiler under three litres or a turbo under 2.4 litres, or a petrol engine under a 3.6 litre-six cylinder these days. A camper-trailer maybe, but a van -no.
Most would go for four litres at least, with a tandem.


I think that the nomads and others that are doing the stupid things are not doing their homework as to routes and alternatives. Possibly not looking at proper maps, just relying on tourist maps and guesswork.
But it would not hurt to have a voluntary theory refresher course for study set up at caravan parks. Most would wander along to have a look. Peer pressure around the campfire/happy hour would get the rest in.

Rovers4

[Grumndriva]

Crackerjack,

Sorry for the late response, but my wife and I have just returned from a caravanning trip through 4 states.

We would probably come under the designation of grey nomads, as I have retired, and we travel a bit with a caravan. Forget the rather silly descriptions of how stupid we all are. Yes we have observed some fellow grey nomads doing silly things, but also many, many youngsters and other age groups doing equally stupid things. In our experience, grey nomads are at least as competent and responsible as any other age group, and in many cases, probably more so.

You asked for a summary of the vanning scene in Oz, so I will ignore motorhomes and campervans.

There are two main types of 'van' in use in Oz: camper trailers and full size vans. Camper trailers range from trailer tents to what are in effect soft sided caravans with wind up hard roofs, with or without pull out beds at each end. The former are most often used by those wanting more comfort than a tent, but less restrictions than a caravan. The latter are most often used by young families as they give lots of room, are relatively low cost, and are generally easily towed by a family sedan.

'Proper' vans are usually either full height or 'pop top'. There are large numbers of both types in use today. The pop tops allegedly are more economical to tow, and can be easier to stow under cover because of the reduced height. They also tend to be heavier due to the need for additional strengtheners in the roof, and much less well insulated. Everything is a compromise.

If there is such a thing as a typical van, it is changing, but is currently somewhere in the range 17 to 20 foot internal length. Anything over around 16 to 17 foot internal needs two axles to carry the weight. An increasing number of vans now have either a combined shower/toilet or a full en suite. A 20 foot van with en suite will weigh somewhere around 2300 to 2600 kg fully loaded, depending on whether it is a black top van or a dirt road van. Dedicated off road vans can by 500 kg heavier. Our 20 foot dirt road van (actually 18'6 foot internal) is 2550 kg fully loaded, and we pull it with a 4.6 litre auto V8 Disco 2, which has proven to be a more than adequate tug.

Nissan Patrols and Land Cruisers are the most common tow vehicles for the larger (over 2500 kg) vans, with the Toyota Prado and Ford Territory for the smaller vans, but there is a huge range of vehicles being used.

Australian vans appear to be much more strongly built than the typical European van, due to the nature of most of our roads and the long distances involved in travelling here. Consequently they tend to be very much heavier. Most vans now have aluminium frames and fibreglass exteriors, but a large number of the smaller manufacturers still use timber frames and aluminium cladding.

Probably most vanners in Oz tend to stay mostly in caravan parks, the quality of which varies greatly, but there is a growing movement towards 'free camping', in rest areas or secluded spots off main roads, particularly when in transit. Consequently most modern vans are relatively self contained with batteries and water tanks. Many have casette toilets or 'portapotties', and showers. An increasing number are being fitted with solar panels to keep batteries charged away from mains power, and many people carry 240v generators, generally around 2 kva.

There is a shortage of dump points (for emptying toilets) in Oz, although the situation is improving. Traditional toilet chemicals have a deleterious effect on the septic tank sewage systems to be found in many regional areas, and so emptying casettes in toilets is prohibited in many parks. Consequently many vanners now use Napisan or Biomagic which are reportedly ok for disposing of in park toilets anywhere.

Parking is often difficult in towns, and even when long vehicle parks are provided, such as at McDonalds cafes, they are normally clogged with sedans whose owners apparently can't read. However we have found that parking is usually available off the main streets of towns we pass through.

We have found vanning to be a very comfortable way of travelling, albeit fuel costs are very high while actually travelling (our Disco uses around 24-26 litres of 95 octane fuel - currently around $1.40 per litre - per 100 km with van in tow). On the other hand, accommodation once stationary is typically in the order of $20 to $30 per night.

A 'typical' 20 foot van will cost from $50,000 upwards new, with some paying well over double that for some brands. The good news is that reasonable on road vans can be hired in most major cities.

Hope this has been what you are after. Feel free to PM me if you have more questions.

[porgey]

We have caravanned for many years now. Started wih a 12 foot rear door after 4 years it was a bit of a squeeze so graduated to a 17 foot Pop Top as age crept up the need for more creature comforts became important, if we wanted to continue our nomadic wanderings.

As from 5 weeks ago we purchased a 19 foot full van with ensuite facilities and around 2 tonne . Our tow tug is a chipped D2 Td5 coil sprung and polyairs with a WDH on light setting. ( our choice )

We love the freedom associated with a self contained caravan and our earlier tow vehicle was a Commodore but the last 3 years the Land Rover Discovery allows us more scope for offroad exploration, bearing in mind the vans limitations off the black stuff .

Cheers George & Pauline