TD5 vs TDi reliability???

[isuzurover]

I was in at my local rover place today picking up some bits. I noticed a TD5 disco which had the top end off. Head/gasket problems.

The owner said that any time you walked into the workshop you would be likely to see a TD5 having the head/gasket done. He said he gets a steady stream of them.

I asked him how 300TDis compared, he said he almost never sees them - much more reliable in his experience.

I would be interested to know if other Landie mechanics (and others) would agree.

Just for fun I have added a poll...

[klappers]

TDi for the win.. looked after you should get 300,000 MILES out of a TDi. But you do have to change the oil etc. like clockwork to get the best out of them.

[Grockle]

No problems as such with our tdci,well no more then the td5 we had.better to live with than the td5.

[nice1guv]

The same thing happened to me last time I was at the Landy shop.

I think they had 6 Td5's lined up for heads! :eek:

I don't think it's the engine though; if you're on top of the cooling system they last.

[crump]

The same thing happened to me last time I was at the Landy shop.

I think they had 6 Td5's lined up for heads! :eek:

I don't think it's the engine though; if you're on top of the cooling system they last.
Damn hard to see where your going though with someone perched on top of the radiator!!:(

[isuzurover]

I don't think it's the engine though; if you're on top of the cooling system they last.

Ahh, but being a fellow engineer/scientist, you would have to agree that it is very likely that TDi and TD5 owners - on average - take equally good/bad care of their cooling systems???

[nice1guv]

Ahh, but being a fellow engineer/scientist, you would have to agree that it is very likely that TDi and TD5 owners - on average - take equally good/bad care of their cooling systems???

Yes I did think that as well.

I guess the Tdi engine has a little more tolerance in it for the heat, or maybe the Td5 cooling system is not quite as robust as the Tdi's and thus needs a bit more regular care.

[weeds]

here we go again.............:zzz::zzz:

didn't bother voting, the poll needed a fourth option

[crump]

here we go again.............:zzz::zzz:

didn't bother voting, the poll needed a fourth option

Bring back the "Best looking Cartoon women" poll, I say.:arms::clap2:

[Blknight.aus]

all told I've done more repair works on the tdi than the td5....

[Cap]

But surely we can compare say a 1994 tdi against a 2003 td5??? Not really fair...

[clean32]

ok its is a bit hard to compare realy.

Most TDI 300 are now or are close to the age\ mileage where some major work will be needed. my experience and what i am hearing is the TDI when getting close to 300K is going to need some work, head gasket or even soft head, P gasket. leaking vacuum pump. clutch brakes serpentine belt and idler would all have been done by this time at least once. in addition more TDI 300 would now be maintained by Home spanner welders or smaller independent mechanics. IE you are not going to see many TDI 300 in at the dealer.

The TD5 seems to start giving problems around the 150K mark, or you see them in the shop heads off at or just before the 150K mark.

but as i said its hard to compare

[clean32]

No problems as such with our tdci,well no more then the td5 we had.better to live with than the td5.

Yes well, we all know that you have a new one:toilet:

[one_iota]

ok its is a bit hard to compare realy.

Most TDI 300 are now or are close to the age\ mileage where some major work will be needed. my experience and what i am hearing is the TDI when getting close to 300K is going to need some work, head gasket or even soft head, P gasket. leaking vacuum pump. clutch brakes serpentine belt and idler would all have been done by this time at least once. in addition more TDI 300 would now be maintained by Home spanner welders or smaller independent mechanics. IE you are not going to see many TDI 300 in at the dealer.

The TD5 seems to start giving problems around the 150K mark, or you see them in the shop heads off at or just before the 150K mark.

but as i said its hard to compare


All too true in my case and add alternator, water pump, PAS pump and injectors.

[PAT303]

So why does the Td5 have head problems?.It can't be lack of maitenance if there is so many with the same problem. Pat

[Jojo]

Both are susceptible to cooling problems, IMHO the Td5 somewhat more so, but that's just gut feeling and I am by no means an expert and qualified to make an informed statement.
The problem with the early Td5 was that the dowels that locate the head on the block are made of composite material that may deteriorate over time, with the result of the head ever so slightly getting out of alignment. The more recent examples of the line (from 2002 or 2003) have steel dowels that don't allow for any head movement, hence minimise the risk for head gasket failure.
Tdi gaskets usually go after overheating, so keep an eye on the coolant all the time. And the temperature gauge, of course ;).

Cheers

[justinc]

Both the Tdi and Td5 are both as reliable as each other, it is the maintenance and treatment of them that counts. (The Isuzu however is in a class of its own:p)

I have Tdi's that have 500K up with no major faults at all, and others with broken crankshafts at 180K:(. Td5's perfect at 300K and others with new heads and turbos at 110K:(. I really think the main question here should be that IF you were to experience a problem with any of these engines in remote outback areas, which one would you prefer to be driving?

JC

[discowhite]

ive had 2 td5s, never had any head dramas, a mate has had one done, little bro bought a cheap 300tdi disco cause it had a dead head, one of the discos next to us at cooma was a 300tdi with a dead head....
its just the luck of the draw i reckon:D

cheers phil

ps unless you names edd130:wasntme:

[Chucaro]

Both the Tdi and Td5 are both as reliable as each other, it is the maintenance and treatment of them that counts. (The Isuzu however is in a class of its own:p)

I have Tdi's that have 500K up with no major faults at all, and others with broken crankshafts at 180K:(. Td5's perfect at 300K and others with new heads and turbos at 110K:(. I really think the main question here should be that IF you were to experience a problem with any of these engines in remote outback areas, which one would you prefer to be driving?

JC

Interesting observation, I would like to add that if people do a research of which it is the prefer engine to tour in Africa and remote places the Tdi is a winner 100 to 1 just because the simplicity in repairing the vehicle.

If we like to compare both vehicles in this poll I would suggest comparing the 1997-98 Tdi300 with the 1999-2000 Td5 because they are closer in age

[Psimpson7]

I think this 'easier to work on' comment is bizzarre. Are people just saying this becasue the 300tdi has no electronics? Is that honestly it?! How many have actually worked on either themselves let alone both, and how many just have a random hatred of electronics?

IME the TD5 is a much nicer engine to work on than the TDI. Most jobs I can think of I would rather do on a TD5 than a TDI....

Head gasket, water pump, fuel system, etc etc etc. Maybe that's just me but we've had both over the years and a few sensors does not make an engine hard to work on.

Am I missing something?

[justinc]

ive had 2 td5s, never had any head dramas, a mate has had one done, little bro bought a cheap 300tdi disco cause it had a dead head, one of the discos next to us at cooma was a 300tdi with a dead head....
its just the luck of the draw i reckon:D
cheers phil

ps unless you names edd130:wasntme:

:eek::eek: poor old Ed, WAYYY too many short straws drawn by him:(
Good to see he hasn't lost the desire to own a LR after all he's been through! The man needs a knighthood for patience and servitude to the marque:D
JC

[Disco_owner]

I've never had a Td5 , so I can't compare it's reliability with a TDi. I have installed one of those engine savers so incase the cooling system has a leak and i'm alarmed early enought to shut the engine off and prevent the heads from cooking then I'll do it. I am planning however to replace the tdi head gasket as preventative maintenance at around 250k , the vehicle has done around 200k on the odo. I would buy a TD5 defender anyday of the week after seeing Matt's Td5 on Hoist :cool: Now a Nanocom would come very handy.


Edit: I didn't Vote either

[Slunnie]

I think this 'easier to work on' comment is bizzarre. Are people just saying this becasue the 300tdi has no electronics? Is that honestly it?! How many have actually worked on either themselves let alone both, and how many just have a random hatred of electronics?

IME the TD5 is a much nicer engine to work on than the TDI. Most jobs I can think of I would rather do on a TD5 than a TDI....

Head gasket, water pump, fuel system, etc etc etc. Maybe that's just me but we've had both over the years and a few sensors does not make an engine hard to work on.

Am I missing something?
I agree. Its still just an engine. If you broke down in the outback with a damaged head, then really it wouldn't matter what you were driving as irrespective of whether it was a 2.25D, 2.5D, 200tdi, 300tdi, TD5, TDV6, TDV8 or even if its the Zoozoo - you still wont be driving anywhere.

The other thing that I tend to think about this question if it is about breaking down as opposed to faulting, is that the TD5 typically faults, where as the TDi typically breaks and I think that is something that may be overlooked.

[PAT303]

I think this 'easier to work on' comment is bizzarre. Are people just saying this becasue the 300tdi has no electronics? Is that honestly it?! How many have actually worked on either themselves let alone both, and how many just have a random hatred of electronics?

IME the TD5 is a much nicer engine to work on than the TDI. Most jobs I can think of I would rather do on a TD5 than a TDI....

Head gasket, water pump, fuel system, etc etc etc. Maybe that's just me but we've had both over the years and a few sensors does not make an engine hard to work on.

Am I missing something?

It's the most common thing that people complain about,for some reason everyone has this hatred of anything electronic,it takes but seconds for people that are by and large totally biased to quote thier ''mate'' who works in some place who see's issues everyday with electrics and tell horror stories about strandings in the desert etc.Both engines are good,one needs knowledge to find faults,the other needs a laptop. Pat

[V8Ian]

Both the Tdi and Td5 are both as reliable as each other, it is the maintenance and treatment of them that counts. (The Isuzu however is in a class of its own:p)

I have Tdi's that have 500K up with no major faults at all, and others with broken crankshafts at 180K:(. Td5's perfect at 300K and others with new heads and turbos at 110K:(. I really think the main question here should be that IF you were to experience a problem with any of these engines in remote outback areas, which one would you prefer to be driving?

JC
Surely the way they are driven would have as big, if not a bigger influence than extended oil drains?

[ramblingboy42]

I dont understand any of this reliability thing my td5 is about to clock over 175,000 and its had a starter solenoid and a fuel pump changed and its still perfect.

[clean32]

I think this 'easier to work on' comment is bizzarre. Are people just saying this becasue the 300tdi has no electronics? Is that honestly it?! How many have actually worked on either themselves let alone both, and how many just have a random hatred of electronics?

IME the TD5 is a much nicer engine to work on than the TDI. Most jobs I can think of I would rather do on a TD5 than a TDI....

Head gasket, water pump, fuel system, etc etc etc. Maybe that's just me but we've had both over the years and a few sensors does not make an engine hard to work on.

Am I missing something?

TD5 cramped engine bay, for us larger blokes its a bit uncomfortable.

an other line of thought is the TDI is all known there is no mistry since its just and evolution of what it was before. the TD5 is like a step to the left in to the unknown

[Slunnie]

TD5 cramped engine bay, for us larger blokes its a bit uncomfortable.

an other line of thought is the TDI is all known there is no mistry since its just and evolution of what it was before. the TD5 is like a step to the left in to the unknown
I find it to be the opposite. The TD5 is a known to me, its been around for a long time now and I have experience with it. If it does something, then I'll probably know what it is and if possible how to fix it.

The Tdi... now that is a step into the unknown. If it stops then I dont want to be stripping injector pumps and changing retunder gaskets in the middle of the desert or in the bush.

[George130]

Never had a sensor problem yet with the TD5. Once you get over the fear of they are expensive engines they are an easy engine to work on. Previouse maintenance is the key to the TD5 reliability.
PS only had to have to towed home 3 times.
Any other time it has been able to get me home before saying no.

And yes I still love the Defenders

[Hendrik]

In terms of easy to work on, I agree with Pete on this one. I've worked on a few tdi's before, mates and family ones mainly. And compared to the td5, everything seams to be in the wrong spot and in the way. For instance, the bellhousing bolts in the autos are impossible to reach are they are pushed right up against the firewall. Much different on the Td5's, its like they actually thought it through more and gave you a lot more room to fit a spanner in.

In terms of reliability, I go for the td5, mine has nearly 265kms on it now, and I've never had to do anything major to it. Compared to the tdi's my parents had, replaced injectors, replaced tensioners and doing that timing belt is just plain annoying. And yes I have seen a tdi pop a head, they are just as fragile as the td5 ones. As mentioned before the plastic dowles are the main reason for td5 head issues. But yet I do have an early td5 and have over heated it before, and my head hasn't come off yet.

Just my 2 cents....

[Rudolf]

Interesting observation, I would like to add that if people do a research of which it is the prefer engine to tour in Africa and remote places the Tdi is a winner 100 to 1 just because the simplicity in repairing the vehicle.

If we like to compare both vehicles in this poll I would suggest comparing the 1997-98 Tdi300 with the 1999-2000 Td5 because they are closer in age
High up in Africa yes. In all the neighbouring countries to South Africa you will be ok with in a few days. Excluding Angola.
I would still prefer the TDI variants as there will be more 2nd hand spares all over where TD5 spares will be rare.

Oh and my change in signature is due to Hendrik's signature.:D