Help with County PTO winch!!!

[long stroke]

G'day all:)

We finally got the PTO winch fully hooked up to the county the sarvo:cool:
Its a Thomas 8000lb PTO to suit a rangie LT95 G'box.
One problem though:(
We went to wind the cable on and found that when you drive it in 1st-4th gears (forward gears) the cable winds on from the bottam and not the top where it is meant to, then when you drive the winch in reverse it winds on the right way (from the top):confused:
So my question is, is this how PTO's are meant to work (winding on in reverse and unwinding in forward gears) or is there something wrong with how we set it up:angel:
Hope that makes sence...

Thanks in advance...TIM.

[Bearman]

Tim,
I know what you are saying but I dont understand why it is doing it. Everything bolts in so there is no reason why it is turning in reverse. Where did the winch come from. Is there a possibility that it is now upside down like maybe it was on a tow truck with hydraulic drive or something and the drive was on the opposite side?....Brian:confused:

[Blknight.aus]

nope somethings pooched in there somewhere...

it should be winding in on the forwards gears and off in reverse.

[long stroke]

Tim,
I know what you are saying but I dont understand why it is doing it. Everything bolts in so there is no reason why it is turning in reverse. Where did the winch come from. Is there a possibility that it is now upside down like maybe it was on a tow truck with hydraulic drive or something and the drive was on the opposite side?....Brian:confused:

Thanks guys!!
The guy we bought it off said he had it on his rangie, it even came with the bar he had it fitted to on his rangie, so i'm not quite shore what the hell is going on:eek:
Here is a pic of it on the county, is the cradle meant to sit like we have it?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/1290.jpg

Looks like we might be winching in reverse all the time:angel:

TIM.

[Bearman]

Tim,
Here is another thought. When you cut and extended the PTO drive unit, did the chain go back the same way. Is there a chance that the chain was crossed over originally and the put back in straight? Do you know what I mean?...............Brian

[Bearman]

Tim,
Here is another thought. When you cut and extended the PTO drive unit, did the chain go back the same way. Is there a chance that the chain was crossed over originally and then put back in straight? Do you know what I mean?...............Brian

[long stroke]

Tim,
Here is another thought. When you cut and extended the PTO drive unit, did the chain go back the same way. Is there a chance that the chain was crossed over originally and the put back in straight? Do you know what I mean?...............Brian

As far as we know the chain is in excactly the same place it was before (apart from it being 4''s longer overall)
Not shore if it has been changed in it's previous life though:(

TIM.

[DeeJay]

Its the same positioning as mine- when I had it. Darned if I can remember which way it spooled. I just found a PDF owners manual, do you want it emailed?

[long stroke]

Its the same positioning as mine- when I had it. Darned if I can remember which way it spooled. I just found a PDF owners manual, do you want it emailed?

Thanks DeeJay, that would be Awesome!!!!!!:thumbsup:

Email: trisha29@bigpond.net.au

[DeeJay]

Looking at the manual, the rotation can be altered by swapping around some balls:eek:.
There are 4 slots & 2 balls. I'll send you the PDF directly once you let me know your address. Can't seem to attach files thru AULRO.

David

Whoops, you already did that- file sent...

[long stroke]

Looking at the manual, the rotation can be altered by swapping around some balls:eek:.
There are 4 slots & 2 balls. I'll send you the PDF directly once you let me know your address. Can't seem to attach files thru AULRO.

David

Whoops, you already did that- file sent...

lol and i just pm'd you our address:angel:
:D

Will be great to have a read!!!

[Bearman]

Tim,
Just a thought (another one). Is it possible that the winch itself is an electric one that has ben modified to PTO type and maybe it turned in the opposite direction originally or the other possibility is maybe it has been dismantled and reassembled with the worm drive put in in the opposite direction. Whatever it is the problem is in the winch itself not the gearbox or PTO unit. I noticed it has a hand crank adaptor on the front for a crank handle - from memory I think this mod was only available on the electric models in case you had a electic motor failure or flat battery.:confused:

[DeeJay]

Tim,
Just a thought (another one). Is it possible that the winch itself is an electric one that has ben modified to PTO type and maybe it turned in the opposite direction originally or the other possibility is maybe it has been dismantled and reassembled with the worm drive put in in the opposite direction. Whatever it is the problem is in the winch itself not the gearbox or PTO unit. I noticed it has a hand crank adaptor on the front for a crank handle - from memory I think this mod was only available on the electric models in case you had a electic motor failure or flat battery.:confused:

The Thomas PTO winch I had came with a crank handle which had a uni joint & collar that fitted over that male fitting. I tried it once- pretty hard work & slow too. You needed to have it in neutral gear.

[long stroke]

Tim,
Just a thought (another one). Is it possible that the winch itself is an electric one that has ben modified to PTO type and maybe it turned in the opposite direction originally or the other possibility is maybe it has been dismantled and reassembled with the worm drive put in in the opposite direction. Whatever it is the problem is in the winch itself not the gearbox or PTO unit. I noticed it has a hand crank adaptor on the front for a crank handle - from memory I think this mod was only available on the electric models in case you had a electic motor failure or flat battery.:confused:

Thanks for all your help Brian:cool:
It could be converted for all we know, can anyone confirm if only the electric thomas winches came with the hand crank?

Thanks in advance!!

[Bearman]

No problem Tim, it will be interesting to find out what is causing it to rotate the wrong way............Brian

[THE 109]

Tim
You've got a bottom feed winch set up with a top feed fairlead,there's two ways to fix your problem.1st is to move your fairlead to the bottom and wrap the winch cable from the bottom,2nd is to get the other worm and wheel from winch industries(pretty sure thats the name) in brisbane.I've had both top and bottom feeders before and both are equally as good as each other,it all depends whether you want your fairlead high or low.There's nothing wrong with your pto unit and the chain can't be fitted wrong.
Cheers Eric.

[weeds]

Thanks for all your help Brian:cool:
It could be converted for all we know, can anyone confirm if only the electric thomas winches came with the hand crank?

Thanks in advance!!

my pto has a crank handle thingy

[long stroke]

Tim
You've got a bottom feed winch set up with a top feed fairlead,there's two ways to fix your problem.1st is to move your fairlead to the bottom and wrap the winch cable from the bottom,2nd is to get the other worm and wheel from winch industries(pretty sure thats the name) in brisbane.I've had both top and bottom feeders before and both are equally as good as each other,it all depends whether you want your fairlead high or low.There's nothing wrong with your pto unit and the chain can't be fitted wrong.
Cheers Eric.

Thanks Eric:thumbsup:
Problem solved!!
Thats a bit of a bugger though, it will stick down a fair bit the other way around:(
Might have to look into the other worm and wheel from winch industries;)
Thanks again!!
P.s is this the mob?
http://www.winch.com.au/winch/home/home.html

CHEERS TIM.

[Gavo]

The bottom feed setup sounds right.Coming from a rangie it would fitt better having it bottom feed
A Thomas will work as well in either direction as they have no forward or reverse as to the way they are built.even the electric one can run either way.
Mr Thomas the son of the bloke who invented it is very helpfull.
Give him a call (07) 3875 1568 .
The other thing to make sure it that a warn winch style won't work properly, as they are to narrow (they are to narrow for warns as well).

[THE 109]

Tim
Yes that's the place.Advanced trailer spares in coopers plains are also good.
Cheers Eric.

[jackz]

Thanks Eric:thumbsup:
Problem solved!!
Thats a bit of a bugger though, it will stick down a fair bit the other way around:(
Might have to look into the other worm and wheel from winch industries;)
Thanks again!!
P.s is this the mob?
Archerfield Precission Engineering - Welcome (http://www.winch.com.au/winch/home/home.html)

CHEERS TIM.
I think I'd go with a new worm and wheel rather than modifying the fairlead position and running the cable off the bottom.
The spares for these winches seem realistically priced,(compared to the ridiculous cost of a complete winch) and would be a lot less hassle than moving the fairlead!

[THE 109]

If you're going to replace the worm and wheel be sure to fit the worm bearings the right way around,I found out the hard way and what a mess.
It will feel fine by hand but when you load it up the worm will pull through the bearings,destroying the bearings,bearing retaining plates and the worm/wheel.
Eric.

[disco2hse]

The bottom feed setup sounds right.Coming from a rangie it would fitt better having it bottom feed
A Thomas will work as well in either direction as they have no forward or reverse as to the way they are built.even the electric one can run either way.
Mr Thomas the son of the bloke who invented it is very helpfull.
Give him a call (07) 3875 1568 .
The other thing to make sure it that a warn winch style won't work properly, as they are to narrow (they are to narrow for warns as well).

You know that actually doesn't make sense, or I am confused (more likely the latter :confused: :D)

Coming form a Rangie with an LT95 the output shaft would turn the same way as on a County, surely. So even on the original vehicle it must have turned in that direction so what did they do?

But of course, yes. The Thomas will work equally well in either direction.

By the way Tim, what did you do with your steering damper?

I get info etc. from sales@atscables.com.au.

By the way, on the subject of sheer pins (yeah I know, no one mentioned it but I thought it might be useful) - copper rod at 6.35mm diameter by 50mm long.

Alan

[weeds]

By the way, on the subject of sheer pins (yeah I know, no one mentioned it but I thought it might be useful) - copper rod at 6.35mm diameter by 50mm long.
Alan
i asked this question a while ago

copper or brass?

[DeeJay]

All is explained... it can be made to go either direction according to the manual..

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/1272.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/1273.jpg

[long stroke]

Thanks for your help everyone!!!
We rung the number on the site i posted, the guy said he hadn't made one of the worm gears we have in our winch for about 15years, he quoted us about $600 to get one made:eek:
He said we'd be best off just looking around for an old top wind winch and swapping the gear over.
Does anyone know if the toyota/nissan PTO gears would be the same?
anyone got one lying around they want to sell?
I will check out this advanced trailer spares place (thanks Eric)

DeeJay- thanks heaps for the instructions mate!!:)
Some great little diagrams in there, can't really see how to swap the drive over though?

I will keep you all informed...CHEERS TIM.

[DeeJay]

Thanks for your help everyone!!!
We rung the number on the site i posted, the guy said he hadn't made one of the worm gears we have in our winch for about 15years, he quoted us about $600 to get one made:eek:
He said we'd be best off just looking around for an old top wind winch and swapping the gear over.
Does anyone know if the toyota/nissan PTO gears would be the same?
anyone got one lying around they want to sell?
I will check out this advanced trailer spares place (thanks Eric)

DeeJay- thanks heaps for the instructions mate!!:)
Some great little diagrams in there, can't really see how to swap the drive over though?

I will keep you all informed...CHEERS TIM.

Yup, sorry, thats for the brake, not drive. I should have read it first:( Can you turn the worm drive around 180 deg??

[THE 109]

The worm and wheel are reverse cut to get the change in direction,think of it like left and right hand threads.They can't be fitted backwards,it would be easier to swap out the entire winch than the worm/wheel.

Tim I have a spare winch in the shed that I'll check the rotation for you in the morning.
Cheers Eric.

[trotts]

Hi all,
This is my first foray into threads etc. Anyway, Thomas winches did come out as hand cranked versions on the PTO versions. I was offered one a few years ago but couldn't justify the cost since I already had the standard version.
Does anyone know where I can get either a PTO unit to fit the L230 transfer box as I am fitting my standard winch to my updated 1986 county wagon to which I am just now installing an ZFHP22 electronic autobox and L230 transfer unit.
As a note from a new boy, you all seem very helpful.
Other than the county wagon, I also have a 56 SWB Station Wagon, a 58 LWB Station Wagon and a 57 LWB ute.(ALL need to be restored)
If all this works it will be a miracle (to me)
Until next time Trotts-Bridgetown WA

[long stroke]

:)
The worm and wheel are reverse cut to get the change in direction,think of it like left and right hand threads.They can't be fitted backwards,it would be easier to swap out the entire winch than the worm/wheel.

Tim I have a spare winch in the shed that I'll check the rotation for you in the morning.
Cheers Eric.

Cool thanks Eric!!!!!:)

[Grumpy]

By the way, on the subject of sheer pins (yeah I know, no one mentioned it but I thought it might be useful) - copper rod at 6.35mm diameter by 50mm long.

Alan[/QUOTE]

I had a PTO winch on my series 3. The original shear pin was brass, ended up going to a stainless steel one.

Tony :wheelchair:

[disco2hse]

i asked this question a while ago

copper or brass?

Definitely copper. Here's a quote from the email:


From: sales@atscables.com.au
Subject: Re: LANDROVER V8
Date: 7 September 2009 7:07:34 PM
To: alan@alphabyte.co.nz
Return-Path: <sales@atscables.com.au>

Alan,

It is probably easier for you to source a length of copper rod 6.35mm dia. and cut your own at 50mm long. This is what we do. We sell shear pins for $A7.00 + 10% GST PLUS POSTAGE and Handling. Probably cheaper and quicker to source over there.

Regards,
Martin

And it certainly was cheaper, worked out at 85 cents each from the local ship's chandlers.

As for stainless steel, I would think the winch would shear before the shear pin did if you use that.

Alan

[THE 109]

Tim-PM sent.

[jackz]

Tim,
Just a thought (another one). Is it possible that the winch itself is an electric one that has ben modified to PTO type and maybe it turned in the opposite direction originally or the other possibility is maybe it has been dismantled and reassembled with the worm drive put in in the opposite direction. Whatever it is the problem is in the winch itself not the gearbox or PTO unit. I noticed it has a hand crank adaptor on the front for a crank handle - from memory I think this mod was only available on the electric models in case you had a electic motor failure or flat battery.:confused:
Just a thought,.......... why would the manufacturer bother to manufacture both left AND right hand worm and wheels with the associated extra cost in tooling and inventory just to have the electric ones run in the opposite direction when electric motors can be made to run quite happily in either direction?

It doesn't make any sense!:confused:

Possibly a better explanation is that somebody has cobbled in a worm and wheel out of some sort of worm drive reduction box.
It could also then be used as a rear winch with top feed. :twisted:

It would be interesting to see pics of the two sets side by side to compare them. If they were both genuine thomas they would be basically identical except for the handing.
.
let me know if you don't have a use for the reverse set and I will gladly relieve you of the burden of storing them in your shed!?!?!?!?!:angel:

[long stroke]

Just a thought,.......... why would the manufacturer bother to manufacture both left AND right hand worm and wheels with the associated extra cost in tooling and inventory just to have the electric ones run in the opposite direction when electric motors can be made to run quite happily in either direction?

It doesn't make any sense!:confused:

Possibly a better explanation is that somebody has cobbled in a worm and wheel out of some sort of worm drive reduction box.
It could also then be used as a rear winch with top feed. :twisted:

It would be interesting to see pics of the two sets side by side to compare them. If they were both genuine thomas they would be basically identical except for the handing.
.
let me know if you don't have a use for the reverse set and I will gladly relieve you of the burden of storing them in your shed!?!?!?!?!:angel:

We are going to swap our bottam wind for a top wind...:)
So sorry you cant have it:D

CHEERS TIM.

[Gavo]

You know that actually doesn't make sense, or I am confused (more likely the latter :confused: :D)

Coming form a Rangie with an LT95 the output shaft would turn the same way as on a County, surely. So even on the original vehicle it must have turned in that direction so what did they do?

But of course, yes. The Thomas will work equally well in either direction.

By the way Tim, what did you do with your steering damper?

I get info etc. from sales@atscables.com.au.

By the way, on the subject of sheer pins (yeah I know, no one mentioned it but I thought it might be useful) - copper rod at 6.35mm diameter by 50mm long.

Alan

Thomas winches supplied many vehicles and applications.
many of the parts are interchangeable

[disco2hse]

Thomas winches supplied many vehicles and applications.
many of the parts are interchangeable

??

My point was that a winch driven by an LT95 gearbox and that turned in one direction should also turn in the same direction when fitted to another LT95, albeit on a different model of Land Rover.

Alan

[Gavo]

??

My point was that a winch driven by an LT95 gearbox and that turned in one direction should also turn in the same direction when fitted to another LT95, albeit on a different model of Land Rover.

Alan

OK the shaft would turn the same direction.
I think the original came from a range rover, so in that application the person who ordered it may have requered it to have a cable feed onto the bottom of the drum due to space and had the worm and gear fitted that way, rather than over the top of the bar like most series or 110's are. Whose to say that that was the original fit it might have come from something else and made to work. I will call the bloke tomorrow and get the real answer.

[long stroke]

Another big thanks to "THE 109'' for helping out and swapping us a worm and wheel to fix our problem!!
All working well, snapped a tree in half while testing it out (removing it from accross the track):cool:
Thanks to all for your reply's!!


CHEERS TIM.