7 injured in 4WD rollover on Fraser Island - Here we go again...

[WhiteD3]

7 injured in 4WD rollover on Fraser Island - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/09/08/2679640.htm)

[BigJon]

Gee the new rules worked well...

[weeds]

:whistling::whistling::whistling:

[waz]

maybe if they just introduced legislation making it illegal to roll cars then we wouldn't have to worry about it. It would never happen again.

[Chucaro]

I cannot understand how it happens, they are given a 1/2 video lesson before jump in the Troopy and considering that the driver may have an extensive experience driving a little Fiat 500 or so this things should never happen :confused: :p

Now, we can start with a new poll with suggestions about the new rules from today on :angel:

[Chops]

Of course this wouldn't happen if they hired out decent vehicles,, like Land Rovers,,, :D

:wasntme:

[Tote]

The new rules are obviously working, only injuries, not deaths........
Regards,
Tote

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

The fatcats in govt will only bring out another rule....... ban 4wds on Fraser that will save us.:(

[ezyrama]

The fatcats in govt will only bring out another rule....... ban 4wds on Fraser that will save us.:(

Unfortunately you cannot legislate against dickhead stupidity. The problem is they will legislate to protect these incompetent morons against themselves and ruin it for the rest of us.

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

Unfortunately you cannot legislate against dickhead stupidity. The problem is they will legislate to protect these incompetent morons against themselves and ruin it for the rest of us.
Never truer words have been said.

[samuelclarke]

Honestly I'm surprised it doesn't happen more...I drive on Teewah Beach going up to Double Island Point fairly often and the idiots I've seen driving at around the 100km mark. :mad: It might be safe to do that on hard sand, but all you have to do is hit soft stuff or swerve unexpectedly and you're in for it... :(

The only thing I can really see making much of a difference is more Police on the beach - which isn't sustainable - or some sort of beach driving licence with training required (I don't like this idea though).

Thankfully at least this time no one was killed.

[Chucaro]

The news said that
Quote: Police are also at the site and say the crash driver was a local.

"There were not an overseas tourist, or anything, they hold a Queensland license, " a police spokeswoman said.
End of Quote
Regarding the last april accident THIS (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/brit-backpackers-sue-over-fraser-island-4wd-rollover-20090629-d1sw.html) article it is interesting, aparatly the vehicle have a steering fault :eek:

[Cap]

I agree with above comments that you cant legislate against stupidity or accidents. Just like theres gona be accidents/injury/deaths on our roads, ragardless of education/training/legislation.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Of course this wouldn't happen if they hired out decent vehicles,, like Land Rovers,,, :D

:wasntme:So you're saying that Land Rovers don't roll over? What planet do you come from?????

[Cap]

So you're saying that Land Rovers don't roll over? What planet do you come from?????

Think it was tongue in cheek somehow... unless you too are also saying that tongue in cheek... in confused! :p

[WhiteD3]

I can't see why they don't just drop the speed limit to say 60kph max. I'm a lead foot at the best of times but I don't see why you need to be in a rush on the beach.

I'd also ban troopies. Not impying that that's what was involved in today's drama.

IMHO:)

[rmp]

Every time this happens the people involved are described as morons or similar by others who are experienced offroaders and cannot imagine how anyone could not know how to drive safely on a beach, because it's so obviously just a case of lack of intelligence. Presumably, smart people could work out how to beach drive without being taught, or have worked it all out from a quick briefing and a read of a manual.

Don't confuse ignorance with stupidity.

It's easy to criticise a complete newbie when you've grown up in Australia, been driving here for years and know your way around 4WDs.

What's obvious to you is not obvious to, say, Europeans. It works both ways, I've seen Aussies try and drive on German autobahns, or handle Parisian traffic or parking. Hopeless until they learn how. In this case it seems the drivers were Aussies, but the same principle applies, beach driving is a skill that needs to be learned. Sometimes experts forget how far advanced they are.

Try learning any new physical skill with an element of danger and see how long it takes before you do something "stupid" out of ignorance. Having spent a lot of time teaching flying and driving, I suggest it won't be long.

The real solution here, as with almost any road safety issue, is better driver training. That'll drive up costs and reduce the number of people who self-drive, but rather that than more bodies strewn along a beach.

[dickyjoe]

Why isnt this kind of thing just seen as a risk of beach driving. Why is a speed limit needed at all? It should be not about laws but about education. Drive according to the conditions, its not that hard.

[Chucaro]

Valid points, in the case of the accident with the europeans (last April) aparently the vehicle had steering faults.
On the last accident, there were not europeans, just locals.

Agree 100% with better driver training, but I just wonder if the 4WD rental people are prepared to loose business because the potential customers do not have formal training.

[rmp]

Why isnt this kind of thing just seen as a risk of beach driving. Why is a speed limit needed at all? It should be not about laws but about education. Drive according to the conditions, its not that hard.

Speed limits only exist because drivers are not well trained enough to do without them.

If as you say you drive to the conditions, following for example the principles laid down the the police driving manual Roadcraft, speed limits become irrevelant as you'll be doing constant hazard scans and adjusting your speed and gearing to suit. But that's too hard for society to accept, so it's easier just to mandate a set limit and call it good. Thus there is a set limit for all cars in all conditions, from dry bright days in a new car to wet fog and worn tyres, and around corners too, and over crests.

The problem with beach driving is that the drivers lack the experience to know what is an acceptably safe speed or how the car reacts in that environment.

[scarry]

They dont just roll them on the beach,there was one rolled south of Coen on the main drag last week,the three tourists were very lucky to get out with not a scratch,the troopy was destroyed.

They had lost it on a newly graded section,too much speed on a bend....

[WhiteD3]

On the ABC news last night it looked like a new LC. It was on a narrow, washed out section of the beach and by the damage I'd say it rolled a few times.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I can't see why they don't just drop the speed limit to say 60kph max. I'm a lead foot at the best of times but I don't see why you need to be in a rush on the beach.

I'd also ban troopies. Not impying that that's what was involved in today's drama.

IMHO:)

The problem with that is people would still roll them at 60. Also, if you reduce a speed limit below the 90th percentile then you'll get the occasional person obeying it, and everybody else travelling as normal safe speed. This results in many vehicles travelling at different speeds which causes far far more problems than the original issue they were trying to treat.

I've driven around hook point and tried to go as close to 40k as I could so as not to scare the birds. However there were no birds there and I was the only one doing this. Everyone else was just doing the usual safe speed. That's the problem with crazy low limits. Once they are set thats it. They would be better off educating people to drive to the conditions (as most people do) and then smiting them if they don't.. but that doesn't pay the bills.

I think what we should be focusing on is if we take out the backpacker-mobiles how few accidents there are. As to the backpackers...I say we make that the problem of the business owners.

[juddy]

Do they fit roll cages in these hire things? And what about insurance, i would hate to have to pay the excess

[Chucaro]

In 2006 was $2000 deposit for them :eek:
If the vehicle was damaged no refund !

[RobHay]

I would ban anything with chunky tyres and make anyone who wants to go on the beach fit really narrow tyres....that way everyone get bogged and you get to meet really interesting people as you all struggle to release ya self from the sand and nobody gets to speed that way 'cos they busy diggin one and other out of the sand and then no one get hurt from roll-overs only from vehicles falling on them when the sand gives away around the massive hole they just dug to release their vehicle. Then they all get charged by the EPA for illegal sand mining and have their vehicles confiscated and that way no-one at all gets squished and rolled on.....see.....solution simple. Its all in the tyres fitted.:angel::p

[catfishman]

It's a tough call to start banning everything, where would you start and finish ?

Saw this on the Lasseter Hwy last week, The Toyota drivers were both Aussies (the prado guy was from Brisbane) and the Defender was rolled by a lady on Sandy Blight Junction. She, her husband and 2 kids walked away with scratches and then drove the Defender a further 400k to Yulara.

It's hard to legislate against bad luck, accidents and peoples stupidity, but seeing the effects of that head on certainly slowed me up and made me take a little bit more care - perhaps showing gruesome pics to ppl who hire 4wds on fraser is a start?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/1149.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/c1a84748243532) https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.imagebam.com/image/1f00f848243536) https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/1150.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/cadd6248243538) https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.imagebam.com/image/1bce0d48243540) https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/1151.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/b1644748243542)

[weeds]

I would ban anything with chunky tyres and make anyone who wants to go on the beach fit really narrow tyres....that way everyone get bogged

i have never had a problem with skiny tyres on the sand........can you get skinnier than 7.50/16s;)

[JamesH]

It works both ways, I've seen Aussies try and drive on German autobahns, or handle Parisian traffic or parking. Hopeless until they learn how. In this case it seems the drivers were Aussies, but the same principle applies, beach driving is a skill that needs to be learned. Sometimes experts forget how far advanced they are.

Try learning any new physical skill with an element of danger and see how long it takes before you do something "stupid" out of ignorance. Having spent a lot of time teaching flying and driving, I suggest it won't be long.


If you want some photographic evidence for what RMP is on about, feel free to visit my gallery. My beach driving lesson cost me 9 grand, nobody hurt thankfully. I had read the threads here, googled, had my recovery gear, lowered the pressures and was tootling along at nice speed in low third. What happened was my wheels weren't set straight ahead and all of a sudden I got more front wheel grip and turned straight into a rock.

I'm not saying I'm not stupid I'm just saying I didn't know I was being stupid at the time. I wasn't cutting up full of grog and ten mates in the back, I was tootling and did a silly thing out of ignorance.

[Chucaro]

This is what one of the local paramedics have to say:
Quote:
Intensive care flight paramedic Jeff Bradfield says the rescue helicopter is called to the island most months.

"They seem to occur quite regularly, and we do get called to the Fraser Island area from both our Bundaberg and Sunshine Coast base up to a couple of times a month," he said.
End of Quote
Source HERE (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/09/09/2680403.htm)

If they have to go with the chopper couple of time a month then you can bet that the cost is very high and the Gov it is going to do something about it!:mad:

[BMKal]

It's a tough call to start banning everything, where would you start and finish ?

Saw this on the Lasseter Hwy last week, The Toyota drivers were both Aussies (the prado guy was from Brisbane) and the Defender was rolled by a lady on Sandy Blight Junction. She, her husband and 2 kids walked away with scratches and then drove the Defender a further 400k to Yulara.

It's hard to legislate against bad luck, accidents and peoples stupidity, but seeing the effects of that head on certainly slowed me up and made me take a little bit more care - perhaps showing gruesome pics to ppl who hire 4wds on fraser is a start?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/1149.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/c1a84748243532) https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.imagebam.com/image/1f00f848243536) https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/1150.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/cadd6248243538) https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://www.imagebam.com/image/1bce0d48243540) https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/1151.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/b1644748243542)

Indisputable proof that Landrovers stand up to the punishment better than Toymota's. :angel:

That head on looks like it happened on a straight section of road - you often ask yourself how this can happen, but I've nearly been there myself after blowing a front right tyre along the same highway.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Some times... stuff happens.

Thats why those fruitcakes that believe that any fatality is avoidable and unacceptable are in dreamy land.

[juddy]

**** they look bad... any idea how they happened?


It's a tough call to start banning everything, where would you start and finish ?

Saw this on the Lasseter Hwy last week, The Toyota drivers were both Aussies (the prado guy was from Brisbane) and the Defender was rolled by a lady on Sandy Blight Junction. She, her husband and 2 kids walked away with scratches and then drove the Defender a further 400k to Yulara.

It's hard to legislate against bad luck, accidents and peoples stupidity, but seeing the effects of that head on certainly slowed me up and made me take a little bit more care - perhaps showing gruesome pics to ppl who hire 4wds on fraser is a start?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/1149.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/c1a84748243532) http://thumbnails13.imagebam.com/4825/1f00f848243536.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/1f00f848243536) https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/1150.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/cadd6248243538) http://thumbnails13.imagebam.com/4825/1bce0d48243540.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/1bce0d48243540) https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/1151.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/b1644748243542)

[dullbird]

Every time this happens the people involved are described as morons or similar by others who are experienced offroaders and cannot imagine how anyone could not know how to drive safely on a beach, because it's so obviously just a case of lack of intelligence. Presumably, smart people could work out how to beach drive without being taught, or have worked it all out from a quick briefing and a read of a manual.

Don't confuse ignorance with stupidity.

It's easy to criticise a complete newbie when you've grown up in Australia, been driving here for years and know your way around 4WDs.

What's obvious to you is not obvious to, say, Europeans. It works both ways, I've seen Aussies try and drive on German autobahns, or handle Parisian traffic or parking. Hopeless until they learn how. In this case it seems the drivers were Aussies, but the same principle applies, beach driving is a skill that needs to be learned. Sometimes experts forget how far advanced they are.

Try learning any new physical skill with an element of danger and see how long it takes before you do something "stupid" out of ignorance. Having spent a lot of time teaching flying and driving, I suggest it won't be long.

The real solution here, as with almost any road safety issue, is better driver training. That'll drive up costs and reduce the number of people who self-drive, but rather that than more bodies strewn along a beach.

I totally agree...these things can just sometimes also be accidents and unfortunate circumstances.
Ian is a fairly capable off roader he has been doing it for years on various different terrains from sand, rocks, mud snow and Ice to wet grass and dirt roads....he is a very safe slow and cautious driver most of the time.

But for anyone that followed my story in LRE we very nerly rolled our new defender it was VERY close....on the gove track and we were doing less than 60kph

So just cause someone rolls a car doesn't mean there morons or tools they could of been just as experienced as you guys but got caught out at the wrong time by something out of the ordinary.

Can happen to anyone of us AFAIC.......no body is invincible from accident or injury..just some of us do better at avoiding for longer

[clean32]

If you want some photographic evidence for what RMP is on about, feel free to visit my gallery. My beach driving lesson cost me 9 grand, nobody hurt thankfully. I had read the threads here, googled, had my recovery gear, lowered the pressures and was tootling along at nice speed in low third. What happened was my wheels weren't set straight ahead and all of a sudden I got more front wheel grip and turned straight into a rock.

I'm not saying I'm not stupid I'm just saying I didn't know I was being stupid at the time. I wasn't cutting up full of grog and ten mates in the back, I was tootling and did a silly thing out of ignorance.

CDL was in ?

[Noki 3.9]

I have been to Fraser a few times now and my family and I are always suprised at how the rented out troopies full of back packer drive around. They show lack of respect for other drivers and there surroundings. Yes accidents happen but when you see how these back packers drive there is no excuse. Yes not all back packers are the same and there are locals that do stupid stuff also but I feel there should be a limit on people per vehicle. A troopy at the best of time is a mission to drive , let alone full of screaming tourists and a roof rack full of gear. Last time I was there I helped out some of these backpackers that were bogged and found that his tyres has 40psi. He was told not to lower them unless he had to. He didnt know how to use the provided tyre gauge.
More traininng, less idiots per car and lower speed limits .
Thats my opinion....shoot me if Im wrong :bat:

[Captain_Rightfoot]

More traininng, less idiots per car and lower speed limits .
Thats my opinion....shoot me if Im wrong :bat:

So, if they are idiots, what makes you think that if you lowered the speed limit they would abide by it and slow down?

Why not make them 20kph then? Surely no one would be injured at that speed?

The problem is inappropriate speed for the conditions/skill level, and I really think unless you make the speed 20k and enforce it with the hand of Zeuss the same things will keep happening. Oh - except people that are capable of knowing how fast to drive will then have to crawl along and take twice as long to get anywhere. Aaargh... :(

[rmp]

Last time I was there I helped out some of these backpackers that were bogged and found that his tyres has 40psi. He was told not to lower them unless he had to. He didnt know how to use the provided tyre gauge.
More traininng, less idiots per car and lower speed limits .
Thats my opinion....shoot me if Im wrong :bat:

You're not suggesting this guy was an idiot for following the instructions, which were wrong, or not knowing how to use a pressure gauge?

[Noki 3.9]

I said More training, less idiots per car and lower speed limits . Not......
[QUOTE=Captain_Rightfoot;1066825]So, if they are idiots, what makes you think that if you lowered the speed limit they would abide by it and slow down?

The real danger is the overloaded backpackers that dont have a clue and are driving rusted out top heavy troopies with roof racks full of gear and at least 8 or more passengers.

Morton and Stradbroke dont have the same problems as Fraser.:o

[Noki 3.9]

Geeezzzzz I will rephrase it , Less people per car. Happy !!!

[inside]

Want to make some money providing solutions?

Healthy Habitats - 4WD Best Management Practice and Training Program

Program Objectives:
Healthy Habitats is an initiative of the Burnett Mary Regional Group to protect and enhance the region's significant biodiversity assets. Healthy Habitats is funded by the Australian and Queensland Governments through the "Caring for our Country Program". There are three core components of the Healthy Habitats program:
*On-ground investment in terrestrial and coastal biodiversity priority areas
*Priority species and ecosystems research and monitoring
*Biodiversity education and awareness raising

The objective of the program is to support a range of high priority activities and to improve the long term security of the region's significant biodiversity assets.

This activity has also been funded externally through an additional Community Coastcare, Caring for our Country grant.

The Healthy Habitats Program will build on the success of the Conservation Partnerships and Healthy Habitats programs that were conducted between 2004 and 2009.

The main target relating to this tender is "To mitigate threats to World Heritage areas"

Specific deliverables for this activity are split across two discrete but inter-related activities:
Community Coastcare (Part A)
*Code of practice (and promotional products) developed for4WD operators accessing tidal wetland areas (by no later than August 2010)

Healthy Habitats (Part B)
*Review of Code of Practice for 4WD operators accessing sandy foreshores and distribution of products to 1000 Fraser Island visitors (by no later than May 2010).
*Development of a training program to ensure best management practice (BMP) fo r 4WD operators whilst accessing sandy foreshores / dunal areas with a particular focus on Fraser Island (by no later than May 2010)
*Delivery of a training program to ensure BMP for 4WD operators whilst accessing sandy foreshores / dunal areas with a particular focus on Fraser Island (by no later than May 2011); and
*Delivery of BMP materials / information to a further 1000 Fraser Island visitors (by no later than May 2011).

The Healthy Habitats program is implemented throughout the Burnett Mary Region in Queensland, which includes the Burnett, Baffle, Isis, Kolan and Mary Catchment areas.

This tender is primarily for the delivery of the above mentioned products to 4WD owners and commercial operators in the Burnett Mary coastal region, with a specific focus on visitors to Fraser Island.

Employment and Tender Opportunities (http://www.bmrg.org.au/information.php/1/28)