Defender Steering and Clunks.

[jplambs]

Hi All,

I finally bought a defender, sorry no pics I don't have a camera on me at the moment. I have a couple of questions if somebody could answer some of them that would be great.

Firstly there is a clunk as the first few gears are engaged, if you ease into it gently it doesn't occur. I checked the universal joints and they appear to be fine. The front prop shaft has a fair bit of play inside both the transfer case and the front diff, I don't know how to describe this other than to say that the whole shaft moves from side to side by a few degrees when the vehicle is parked on a flat. Once the vehicle is under way there is absolutely no noise aside from that coming from the engine, everything appears to be running smoothly. I first thought it was a universal joint as I have had a UV joint going on a tractor sound exactly the same.

Secondly there is a fair bit of play in the steering, it all appears to be coming from between the steering wheel and the power steering box. Is there any way to tighten the box up to reduce the play? I know that I did it once on a landcruiser but I don't want to fiddle with the defender without checking if it is possible first.

I bought the fender fairly cheap so I was expecting to spend a bit on it, oh and thats the other thing it has a 2 inch lift.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[jplambs]

I've just realised I was being a bit of a dill. I left the handbrake on when I was checking the rear drive shaft, there is also movement in that from the transfer case through to the rear diff. This may be normal but I am unsure so I thought I would ask anyway.

I was just talking to a friend and he suggested that it may be due to the oil in the transfer case, it was quite a fine oil and he suggested that I replace it with some heavier duty oil.

[BigJon]

Changing oil grades in the transfer case will make precisely no difference whatsoever to the backlash.

It is "normal" for there to be quite a bit of backlash in a Defender drivetrain.

Having said that, it is quite common for the rear axles to wear badly in the splines at the outer (wheel) end. It is a simple matter to remove the drive plates and visually check the splines for wear.

[jplambs]

Thanks Jon, I'll have a look at it in the morning, I just rang another friend who has landrovers and he said the same thing as you. That it is pretty normal; especially for a 1995 model with a few hundred thousand clicks on the clock. I haven't driven one before I bought so I hadn't had the previous experience.:o

[NME]

Another thing that can cause thumping / clunking noises in the Defe is the ball joint on top of the A frame on the rear axle.

When I first got my Defender the noises it made were horrendous, particularly climbing hills if you got any wheel spin. My mechanic checked that ball joint and showed me how much play was in it, replaced it and no more thumping. Oh, and my truck has heaps of backlash play in the driveline too.

jplambs - you said "the whole shaft moves from side to side" - do you mean "sideways" or rotational movement?

With your steering slack, check the 2 small uni joints on the steering column (in the engine bay), on mine the uni joints themselves were fine but the splines that they connect to the column with were worn and created a lot of steering freeplay.

[jplambs]

Hi NME, yes when I said sideways I meant rotational, the only time it makes any noise is when you accelerate and it picks up the slack. I have started to get the hang of it, not accelerating quickly certainly stops the noise.

I'll have a look at the a-frame joint tomorrow, I was wondering what everybody keep meaning when they referred to the a-frame.

I had a good look at the steering tonight and the ball joint just below the steering arm is completely shot:(, I think I might see if I can get a new joint and a new steering box tomorrow.:cool:

Thanks for your help. Jonathan.

[JDNSW]

The ball joint on the pitman arm is replaceable in situ, although it is a bit of a pain, it is not as much a pain as getting the pitman arm off the steering box. If there is play in the steering box, to the extent this is end play on the pitman shaft, it can be adjusted out by the adjustment screw and locknut on top of the box.

Replacement steering boxes are readily available, but are sufficiently expensive that I would want to be sure there was a serious problem with it, usually an oil leak which cannot be fixed by replacing the seal as the shaft is also worn.

For steering free play also look at the panhard rod bushes for movement, and make sure the steering box mounting bolts are not loose.

John

[jplambs]

Thanks John, Someone else told me that if you adjusted the screw it would only make the steering firmer and not take out any of the play. If as you say it will stop the play that would be a much better option.

I'll have to have a look again in the morning but when I was looking at it late this evening it appeared that the play was only in the section between the wheel and the steering box and that it wasn't moving the pitman arm at all.

Jonathan.

[peewee]

when you adjust the steering box freeplay, make sure the steering is in the straight ahead position. get someone to rock the steering back and forth and see if there is any up and down movement of the shaft the pitman arn is on at the bottom of the steering box.if there is any up and down movement use the adjister at the top of the box to just eliminate this and no more. if this is over adjusted it will make the steering very heavy. once this movement is eliminated if there is still excessive freeplay in the box it will need to be replaced. also check the steering doesnt tighten up on full lock after adjustment, if it does replace the box.
when you replace the pitman arm ball joint check the joints on both ends of the drag link are lined up in the same plane (looking side on the joints shafts should be in a straight line up and down , does this make sence ?) if not when the steering is turned the drag link rotates and if the joints arnt in line they get to the limit of there twist too soon and wear out quickly.

[PAT303]

Don't no what the bloke above is on about but with the steering box only make tiny adjustments,by tiny I mean an 1/8 of a turn with a 6mm alan key and no more. Pat

[lardy]

Mr Lambs you didn't say what type of defender you had purchased!

[jplambs]

Thanks to everyone for their help, sorry its taken so long to repost, I've been under the fender to much over the weekend.

Well to fill everyone in, I ended up tossing the current steering box and getting a second hand one as well as the pitman arm and ball joint for $250. It took awhile to get it in but she handles beautifully now.

I managed to narrow down the clunking noise to the transfer case with the help of Anthony from British 4wd imports over in Montrose Victoria, (I also got the spares from him, fantastic fellow to deal with). So I took the drain plug out only to discover that there was 300mls of oil left in it. Not bad for a box that is supposed to hold 2.5 litres. Anyway I topped it up and all seemed good, hardly any clunking and no leaks after taking it for a spin. Just a very small amount of backlash in the drivetrain.:D

Then today I went to visit my grandmother and I parked the fender in her driveway facing downhill, by the time we got back from church it had managed to leak most of the contents of the transfer case past the front seal onto my grandmothers clean driveway.:wasntme: So it doesn't leak when its facing uphill or on a level but going downhill it does. Shouldn't take to much to put a new seal in anyway.

Ohh, and its a 95 300tdi 110 defender.:D

[lardy]

hi again lambs, if you are taking out the transfer case might as well do the copper spacers in the gears and the intermediate shaft whilst you are at it as these are serviceable parts too.
the shaft has an 'o' ring on the shaft and one that sits in a recess in the edge of the case ...and this spossed to stop the oil ...nice one land rover !!!
it may well start to leak six months after you do it but not as bad as what you are getting right now ...all this gear comes in kit form from the likes of rovacraft cheers Andy