ENGINE TRANSPLANT???

[Grimace]

FIRSTLY I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT THIS IS JUST AN IDEA AND I WOULD LIKE OTHERS OPINIONS. I HOPE THIS DOESNT BREAK ANY FORUM RULES?

After speaking with me mechanic and mates about Fluffys heart, the idea of a engine transplant is playing on my mind. I propose the following two options.

Option 1;
ENGINE - Rover 3.9-5.2L Fit cam kit, injectors, stage three heads, re ring or possible stroker.
PROS - more power, lightweight, that rover V8 exhaust note.
CONS - auto wont handle it, cost/power ratio in comparison to option 2
COST - $5000-7000 depending on final capacity.

Option 2;
ENGINE - 6L L76 or L98 (with 4spd auto). Mild cam and mafless tune.
PROS - even more power, new engine, reliability, cost/power ratio, plenty of future upgrade potential, better fuel economy, good strong auto. Can also sell the rover engine, auto, cam kit, ecu etc etc.
CONS - Exhaust note, weight, diffs might not like me much! Not a rover.
COST - $7000-$8000 (minus what I get back from all the rover drivetrain)

Currently pricing up to see if the price can be improved and to get a good idea of the actual engine availability. I really wanted to stick with the rover V8 but the 6L of absolute power house is a very hard to pass up/ignore.

The fact that I know of others with the same engine in large 4wds getting constant town figures of 16L per hundred. Also having owned a L76 powered ute, I know the power these engine can deliver and the fuel economy that comes along with it (ute averaged 13L/100).

So the idea is in the air, will start compiling a complete costing and will post up when I have the final figures.
------------------------------------------------------------

Cheers
Grimace

[big guy]

Hmm

I do believe TRS are doing a full recon or exchange motor for $4950 and its a 4.9L.

A long motor at that from my last speaking with them.
They are pretty reputable.
You can also include a Haltech computer for some extra beans.

Comes in with labour at your budget above.

[Grimace]

Hmm

I do believe TRS are doing a full recon or exchange motor for $4950 and its a 4.9L.

A long motor at that from my last speaking with them.
They are pretty reputable.
You can also include a Haltech computer for some extra beans.

Comes in with labour at your budget above.

Will be ringing Chris @ RPi tonight to discuss their engine options ;)

[cal415]

Do the Chev motor, they sit nicely in the rover ;)

[Camo]

Yep chev..can't beat em

they are the same weight yeah?

[Grimace]

Do the Chev motor, they sit nicely in the rover ;)

There is no way i will be putting an old chev motor in my classic, too heavy.

The new Gen4s are not too bad.

[Disco_owner]

Do the Chev motor, they sit nicely in the rover ;)


^ x 2

Chev with GQ gear Box mated to an LT230.:thumbsup:

oops I just saw your post above ... ignore my post then :(

[Hoges]

FWIW: (prob not much!) there was a 4wd racer @ gold coast who recently entered a modified Pajero in the Alice Sp. to Finke race in the NT. According to the write up in the local rag, his mechanics ditched the UK spec/prepared engine etc and put in a "crated" GM LS something... 6L I recall together with a 5 sp GM auto gearbox... came as a unit complete with all ECUs etc etc ...didn't hear how he went (I expect very fast :twisted:)

It shouldn't be too long before said "crated" GM engines are available with variable cylinder management currently offered with the latest Holden V8s... now that would be a great leap forward!

As regards "what is a rover" ... I have no doubt that given the right price the GM LS series may have been in the LR well before this... like BMW donks in Rolls Royces, GM Holden (Fishermen's Bend produced ) 4 cyl engines exported for use in Saabs and Alfas a few years ago....

[cal415]

Yeh i didnt mean the old school chev, i meant the alloy block LS motor.... but i guess were talking holden motors there :)

[TheLowRanger]

I am interested to see what becomes of this thread as it is on my future radar to possibly try one of these options myself. I do like the idea of the LS engines because of what you say, better fuel economy and more power to boot.

[Traco]

My preference would be to drop a 4.6 in with a decent high torque cam (Crower 50229 is one of the best) and a custom chip. Make sure it's a flanged liner block with 9.35:1 pistons, not a Coscast type that RPI sell as there have been reports of the latter cracking on the TVR forum.

TRS suggest a rising rate fuel pressure regulator but I think a remapped Tornado chip is preferable. Tweaking the fuel pressure is a simplistic way of going about it, you simply get the pressure to get full load fueling correct, and then hope the ECU can keep it in trim below this. If it cant the car will be a pig to drive.

Clean up the heads, throw in some new injectors (Ford C302) and maybe a Scorcher distributor with a custom advance and you'll see 260 bhp and 330ftlb which the ZF will handle.

Price: I estimate around 7 to 8k.

[long stroke]

Yep i reckon a 4.6 would be the go, new cam, supercharge it, etc etc:D
Gotta stay with the rover v8 in my opinion (unless you want huge amounts of power....)

CHEERS TIM.

[Blknight.aus]

Personally Id stay the rover motor given those 2 options (wheres your diesel option man :confused: )primarily because I know the rover motor and I dont need the diff shattering power of the chev.

Admitedly no rover motor, no matter how worked has ever been in the league of the chev motors its a bit like tdi's vs td5's sure you can up a tdi to match a stock td5 but then the bugger with the td5 chips it and the poor tdi just weeps a tear, gives up and cries in the corner.

[def-90]

by the time the conversion is done grimace i think you'll have to bank on at least twice those prices!!!!

if you can find a reputable rover engine builder to do a good stroker (5L or 5L plus) with computer for under $10K i'd be astonished!! more then likely thousands more plus fitting!!

and with the chev - what engine size can you get engineered in a rangie? i know its more then a deefer, but a fender is 5L. plus the conversion will obvioulsy cost you alot more then a rover swap.

i' looked hard at trying to get a gen or LS into the wombat and couldn't find anyone to let me:mad: maybe i don't know the right people

[big guy]

I still agree, even better or perhaps simpler is to get your motor worked to 4.9 and keep same block and engine no so there is no hassle with rego and engineering.

My high comp 4.6 with Haltech went like the preverbial and was sad to see it go.

I also had a 81 two door with a holden 3.8l V6 and holden box to match.
Nightmare and fuel consumption was up there also.
What I missed most was the lack of exhaust note the most.
The 4.6 had the full mendrel job in stainless from the manifold back.
It was beautiful and absolutely no oil leaks.
I could go on.

Pull motor out and give to good engine builder and keep fingers crossed.

best of luck, nice project.

[Vern]

a 3.8l v6 isn't really a 6l chev now is it. while a 4.9 rover would go good, i'd personally spend the extra dollars and stick a 6l chev in it, you realy just need to sort the auto, which i'd either go a beefed up t700r4 or 4l60e. I don't care what people say, there isn't a substitute for cubic inches, and the chev is easy to tune and get good economy from.
Do the sums:)

[cal415]

I think you guys are all mad, the chev is the way to go, spend less doing that then building a rover motor, and what would be the benefit from a rover v8 over a chev, less power, more fuel used, harder to source parts for etc etc. weight wise the motor is probobly 30-50kg heavier for the ls1(we lifted both motors by hand with 3 of us)
with my LS1 conversion so far im at
1500 for motor ECU etc etc the guy even arrange to have the BCM removed from the ECU for free for me
450 for custom loom(could have done this myself a saved heaps)
500+950 for the dellow bellhousing + gearbox/lt230
250 for all the exhaust bits to make custom headers
80 odd dollars in steel for engine mounts
around 500 on fuel system(which you would probobly have to do with the 4.6 anyway)
Theres probobly more ive spent on little things but no other major spends so far

Ive still got a long way to go yet but comparing that to a 4.6 or similar rover v8 on prices... the decision was simple.

Anyone interested in seeing the LS1 conversion look at the link on the bottom of this post HEEAAPPSS of pics so far....

[CraigE]

I see you mentioned RPi above. Incase it is not the same one I am thinking of in the UK here is a link that may help.
"RPi Engineering - Specialised Rover Engines" (http://www.v8engines.com/)

While the Chev LS engines are priced right, I think you may find the conversion will cost you a fair bit more than you think with all the ancillaries. Just talk to people and get all the costs. I know I was contemplating it for my Torana and even for that it is a bit of a nightmare with all the compliance with pollution, cats etc that now must be done let alone engineering certification.

[cal415]

The pollution side of it is a simple thing, went through it with the engineer already -add cats keep the carbon pot and run a breather from the fuel tank, keep the AFM (till its regod) etc get it passed emissions and DB then loose the cats again....

as for the extra costs involved, theres not that many,, and no doubt there would be similar problems going to a 4.6, at the end of the day the LSx motor is still the way to go unless your really really keen to keep it true to rover. Its a wonder theres not kits available already, but i know marks 4x4 adapters is working on something there....

[Armadillo]

Relatively speaking, the transplant isn't that expensive. A crated 6 litre LS2 is only $5500.

Check this out for pricing and parts including bellhousing, ECU etc.....

Holden V8 (http://www.marks4wd.com/products/engine-trans-conversions/RR-Holden-V8.html)

I have been toying with the idea myself.;)

[frantic]

Go the 6l chev as it's alloy and the rover engine was originaly a buick/gm motor. It will be easier for parts and you should be able to get one on the cheap from a wreckers yard as "real hoons" quite often smash commodores/ hsv's into immovable objects at various angles that do not have any impact upon the engine.;)
This engine also give you the future option in the search for more power off supercharging(but cheaper and more power then the rover) with several aftermarket suppliers , walkinshaw racing included!

[TheLowRanger]

Just on the lines of engineering, would a 4.6 still need to be engineered as a replacement for the 3.9?

[GuyG]

I think it would as it will have a different engine number

[Grimace]

Just on the lines of engineering, would a 4.6 still need to be engineered as a replacement for the 3.9?

Yes it would need to be complianced. But there is not much to it.

[philco]

Why not go all out and get a TDV6 or TDV8 from a disco 3 etc it would be awesome with it chipped, the series 3 discos go lie stink with them

[Bigbjorn]

(wheres your diesel option man :confused: )

.

Peter twoup was trying to get Qld. Transport approval for a Detroit 3-53TIBB, all aluminium version from US Army snow tractors. Joe Hawkes from Airlie Beach is familiar with them and says 200hp from a TIBB version is achievable with tyre shredding torque available. QT were being "difficult" last I heard from twoup.

[philco]

anything they dont understand is too hard for them,

[def-90]

TDV8 in a D3???? haven't seen one of them yet - maybe a RRsport...


if you want TDI goodness - straight to a duramax:twisted: theres a fella down south puttin gone in his 130 - power and torque that'll eat a gen motor!!!

[loanrangie]

Why do you need so much power ? you wont use it offroad unless you are racing and you can get enough useable torque from a rover motor with decent compression and aftermarket/re mapped ECU. All you will do is stress the rest of the driveline into failure, the cost of the chev swap will be akin to a small house deposit - why do it ? I'm not against engine swaps at all but in the case of a 4wd i dont see how you will get the full benefit of the expspense.

[Dougal]

Peter twoup was trying to get Qld. Transport approval for a Detroit 3-53TIBB, all aluminium version from US Army snow tractors. Joe Hawkes from Airlie Beach is familiar with them and says 200hp from a TIBB version is achievable with tyre shredding torque available. QT were being "difficult" last I heard from twoup.

Why?
You'll get far better power, torque and economy from the likes of the Isuzu 4BD1T.

[defmec]

what bout a 302 Windsor or a straight 6 4l turbo

[Armadillo]

what bout a 302 Windsor


Mmmm, brings to mind a quote from an iconic Aussie movie

with Phase 4 heads! 600 horsepower through the wheels! She's meanness set to music and the ***** is born to run ;)

[Grimace]

Why do you need so much power ? you wont use it offroad unless you are racing and you can get enough useable torque from a rover motor with decent compression and aftermarket/re mapped ECU. All you will do is stress the rest of the driveline into failure, the cost of the chev swap will be akin to a small house deposit - why do it ? I'm not against engine swaps at all but in the case of a 4wd i dont see how you will get the full benefit of the expspense.

I feel its better to have power and limit it through the throttle then not have power and always be on the throttle.

As for the $$$ involved its about the same weather i build a decent 4.6+ rover motor or just get a LS2.

[Grimace]

what bout a 302 Windsor or a straight 6 4l turbo


eewwwwww, you should be banned for that!

No seriously, I want to stick with the rover alloy V8 or a 'new' Chev (read L76, L98 or LS2)

The older chev and windsor blocks simply fail to turn me awn. :)

[loanrangie]

I feel its better to have power and limit it through the throttle then not have power and always be on the throttle.

As for the $$$ involved its about the same weather i build a decent 4.6+ rover motor or just get a LS2.

All you need is a reasonable amount of torque low in the range not a high rpm monster.

[stig0000]

don wory instead of haveing a big v8,,, i was thinking more of a 2j out of a skyline, ,, i got this idear cos im geting a biger intercooler and my mate sead y dont u get a big front mount IC,:D iv never seen a fender with that :D,, and then he sead well since your allready there put my 2J in it,, hahah,, the fender would then have a masive blowoff valve then :D:D such a child

[Grimace]

All you need is a reasonable amount of torque low in the range not a high rpm monster.

I know this is all true and correct, but cmon man why be so sensible :D

[cal415]

All you need is a reasonable amount of torque low in the range not a high rpm monster.
Unless you spend some time dune climbing!
As for the 4bd1T getting the same power as a LSx V8 motor.... i highly doubt it, sure you can probobly get 300hp or what ever out of them but thats what you can get out of a stock LS1, with some mods or a turbo the LS motor would crap over any deisel for power.

[Dougal]

Unless you spend some time dune climbing!
As for the 4bd1T getting the same power as a LSx V8 motor.... i highly doubt it, sure you can probobly get 300hp or what ever out of them but thats what you can get out of a stock LS1, with some mods or a turbo the LS motor would crap over any deisel for power.

The 4BD1T power was in relation to the detroit.
It's no problem for a 4BD1T to beat an LS1 for torque across it's entire rev range.

The only mods on an LS1 that're going to give you more power without making the low end completely useless is forced induction. At that point the tanker trailer becomes a real drain on performance.

[cal415]

across its entire rev range to its red line at what???
Ive seen plenty of LS1s running forced induction that were around the same on fuel as the NA's, its not till you drive them hard they start guzzling the juice.....

I guess is comes down to weather Grimace wants his teeth rattled out of his head or smooth power and a nice note to go along with it, I wouldnt mind a 4bd1t in something i was planning big trips in but i doubt this thing is getting driven that far.

[Dougal]

across its entire rev range to its red line at what???

~3500 stock, there's at least one guy running it way faster (can't recall exact rpm).



Ive seen plenty of LS1s running forced induction that were around the same on fuel as the NA's, its not till you drive them hard they start guzzling the juice.....

The same on fuel providing they aren't decompressed (i.e not running much boost anyway) and you don't use the boost.
Which I suppose is like me having a 4wd that never leaves the garage.:angel:

[cal415]

Have you looked in to some of the kits available for an LS1? Theres plenty of them running boost on a stock bottom end with no decompression plates and driven normally they are fine for fuel, given high RPM and lots of throttle is when they start chewing it.... a turbo'd LS motor would be very usable in a 4wd...

[Dougal]

Have you looked in to some of the kits available for an LS1? Theres plenty of them running boost on a stock bottom end with no decompression plates and driven normally they are fine for fuel, given high RPM and lots of throttle is when they start chewing it.... a turbo'd LS motor would be very usable in a 4wd...

Simple physics dictates that if you boost a petrol engine, you need higher octane fuel or lower compression to prevent detonation. You could retard the ignition or richen the mixture to get some effect.
But no matter which method you choose, your off-boost efficiency takes a dive so fuel consumption increases.
If you'd rather run ethanol or av-gas to suppress detonation. Then your running cost just took another leap.

When you're on boost, all the extra air that's being pushed into the engine is acampanied by extra fuel.
Result, your fuel consumption increases.

Personally I can't see a high horsepower petrol v8 as good for anything except throwing mud or **** factor. While that might be great fun, it's not much use for a vehicle to actually go places.
A 50hp diesel tractor would be far more capable.

[Bigbjorn]

Why?
You'll get far better power, torque and economy from the likes of the Isuzu 4BD1T.

A 3-53T in standard trim is 131 bhp @ 2500 rpm, 312 lb. ft. @ 1600 rpm in industrial engine tune and using N65 injectors. Joe Hawkes says you can run N90 injectors, bigger turbo, and blower bypass, up the governed speed to 2800even 3000 rpm as the engine will be lightly laden in a Land rover, get at least 200 bhp and around 450 lb. ft. Detroits have an unequalled torque curve rarely bettered by comparable engines, being particularly good from clutch engagement, 800 rpm. The little all aluminium Detroit according to Hawkes weighs a bit over 200 kgs. A very light package. And the bonus is the exhaust note.

[Disco_owner]

Simple physics dictates that if you boost a petrol engine, you need higher octane fuel or lower compression to prevent detonation. You could retard the ignition or richen the mixture to get some effect.
But no matter which method you choose, your off-boost efficiency takes a dive so fuel consumption increases.
If you'd rather run ethanol or av-gas to suppress detonation. Then your running cost just took another leap.

When you're on boost, all the extra air that's being pushed into the engine is acampanied by extra fuel.
Result, your fuel consumption increases.

Personally I can't see a high horsepower petrol v8 as good for anything except throwing mud or **** factor. While that might be great fun, it's not much use for a vehicle to actually go places.
A 50hp diesel tractor would be far more capable.


You're kidding here right ? I can see many factors that High HP Petrol engine will be usefull , one that has been already mentioned = Sand Dunes.

[Grimace]

I dont mind diesels. Just I prefer my V8s. I have always been this way.

A diesel also has a much smaller usable rev range in each gear, lets say from 1800 to 3500, so you have about 1700 worth of rpms to work with in each gear.
A petrols usuable rev range is say 2500 to 5500, which is 3000 worth of rpms.

In autos this is not so important (so in my exact case it's completely irrelevant) but in a manual I have seen many times where the diesels rev range has lead to three gear changes needed to get enough momentum and the right speeds to get up a section of rutted and solid rock hill climb, where as the petrol V8 was able to launch from second and adjust the revs most of the way to the top :cool:. This is just a example, and ofcourse gearing and other factors will lessen or increase the effects, but it does have some merits to it IMHO.

Cheers
Grimace

p.s. Did I mention I love V8s

[Dougal]

You're kidding here right ? I can see many factors that High HP Petrol engine will be be usefull , one that has been already mentioned = Sand Dunes.

So you can dig holes faster?



I dont mind diesels. Just I prefer my V8s. I have always been this way.

A diesel also has a much smaller usable rev range in each gear, lets say from 1800 to 3500, so you have about 1700 worth of rpms to work with in each gear.
A petrols usuable rev range is say 2500 to 5500, which is 3000 worth of rpms.

In autos this is not so important (so in my exact case it's completely irrelevant) but in a manual I have seen many times where the diesels rev range has lead to three gear changes needed to get enough momentum and the right speeds to get up a section of rutted and solid rock hill climb, where as the petrol V8 was able to launch from second and adjust the revs most of the way to the top . This is just a example, and ofcourse gearing and other factors will lessen or increase the effects, but it does have some merits to it IMHO.

Cheers
Grimace

p.s. Did I mention I love V8s

I believe you did.

But in your example above, if you have a diesel that pulls from 1800-4000rpm or from 1500-3500rpm then you have a similar engine speed range to the V8 running 2500-5500rpm.
5500/2500 = 2.2.
4000/1800 = 2.22
3500/1500 = 2.33

There's more to be gained by pushing your usable rpm lower, than higher. This is regardless of what is fuelling your engine.

[cal415]

Simple physics dictates blah blah blah blah

When you're on boost, all the extra air that's being pushed into the engine is acampanied by extra fuel.

The thing you also need to consider is the fact you dont have to drive it as hard or rev it as hard so the fuel consumption can be pretty well on par, trust me i have done the petrol turbo thing and the difference in consumption was minimal - but i didnt say there was no difference....

Simple physics dictates boosting a diesel to any signicant level also requires more fuel right?



Personally I can't see a high horsepower petrol v8 as good for anything except throwing mud or **** factor. While that might be great fun, it's not much use for a vehicle to actually go places.
A 50hp diesel tractor would be far more capable.
And personally i dont give 2 craps about your opinion of V8s being wanky etc go Ahead put a 50HP motor in your truck, that'll be fun to drive :BigThumb:

I drive on the beach alot and i dont care how much power you can get out of a 4bd1 it will never compare in that situation to a petrol V8. The extra power WILL be usefull in that situation and the higher RPM makes all the difference.

And comparing a tractor to a car for capability? thats like comparing a 4db1 and a LSx Motor......

Lets go back to talking V8s here, leave the diesels for the old folk to putt around in. :twisted:
(flame suit on)

[Dougal]

Simple physics dictates boosting a diesel to any signicant level also requires more fuel right?

Depends how good you are at physics.
A turbo makes a diesel more efficient, it uses less fuel for the same load as without a turbo.
The compromises involved in fitting a turbo to a petrol make them less efficient.

Which is one of the reasons why a toyota prius isn't turbocharged but the diesel lupo which uses less fuel is.

50hp 4wd's. Plenty of them around. Landrover, Suzuki, Daihatsu etc. They surprised the world with where they went.

[cal415]

And how slow they got there no doubt!

So are you saying a 4bd1 would make 300hp on the same ammount of fuel it makes its stock power at?

[Dougal]

So are you saying a 4bd1 would make 300hp on the same ammount of fuel it makes its stock power at?

No.

[andrew e]

hey grimace, i know where theres a 8L v10 viper motor and 4L60e for 8k if you want to push your budget? they are all alloy too.


Andy

[Disco_owner]

Depends how good you are at physics.
A turbo makes a diesel more efficient, it uses less fuel for the same load as without a turbo.
The compromises involved in fitting a turbo to a petrol make them less efficient.

Which is one of the reasons why a toyota prius isn't turbocharged but the diesel lupo which uses less fuel is.

50hp 4wd's. Plenty of them around. Landrover, Suzuki, Daihatsu etc. They surprised the world with where they went.


Yep , well , I 've got one of those 50hp engines in my rover and it went no where near as far as the 4.6 petrol engines went on the dunes :p

[Bigbjorn]

A standard 4BD1T puts out 86 kw/320 Nm at 3000 rpm and 1800 rpm respectively. A standard 3-53T industrial engine has output of 98 kw/423 Nm at 2500 rpm and 1600 rpm respectively. The little Detroit should have considerably more torque at clutch engagement, 800 rpm. This is a characteristic of Detroit two stroke diesels. The 4BD1T weighs 340 kgs. and according to Joe Hawkes, the little aluminium Detroit weighs not much over 200 kgs. Main problem would appear to be driveline strength in using the Detroit in a Land Rover.

[cal415]

Sounds like an interesting motor, are they hard to come by and very costly?

As for the driveline, i think a rat in a wheel used as a motor would probobly put stress on the stock rover driveline :)

[Dougal]

A standard 4BD1T puts out 86 kw/320 Nm at 3000 rpm and 1800 rpm respectively. A standard 3-53T industrial engine has output of 98 kw/423 Nm at 2500 rpm and 1600 rpm respectively. The little Detroit should have considerably more torque at clutch engagement, 800 rpm. This is a characteristic of Detroit two stroke diesels. The 4BD1T weighs 340 kgs. and according to Joe Hawkes, the little aluminium Detroit weighs not much over 200 kgs. Main problem would appear to be driveline strength in using the Detroit in a Land Rover.

Those are industrial engine specs (86/320).
My JDM 4BD1T was 103kw and 330Nm stock.
The stock fuel pump delivers enough to double those figures. Just needs more boost.

The BSFC figures show the detroit using around 20% more fuel than the average tdi (like the 4BD1T) to do the same job.
So fuel consumption would be on par with a nissan 4.2 diesel.

[Bigbjorn]

Those are industrial engine specs (86/320).
My JDM 4BD1T was 103kw and 330Nm stock.
The stock fuel pump delivers enough to double those figures. Just needs more boost.

The BSFC figures show the detroit using around 20% more fuel than the average tdi (like the 4BD1T) to do the same job.
So fuel consumption would be on par with a nissan 4.2 diesel.

Those figures for the 4BD1T were taken from the Land Rover 110 Australian Supplement, what was fitted to the 6 x 6.

My experience with Detroits, mostly 8V92TA's at 435 hp was that they use about the same fuel as any comparable truck doing the same job. I had one out, (unapproved modification) at marine spec 545 hp @ 2300 pulling triples, gross >90 tonnes, that was a bit thirsty. But if you are not fed you won't work either. Detroits do the work easy and just about forever if you keep clean filters up to them. DDA had an oil analysis programme that would tell you if you needed to change oil. They maintained that changing oil for the sake of it was unecessary expense, "Change it when we tell you". They had a very low cost per mile due to low maintenance and longevity.

[Dougal]

Those figures for the 4BD1T were taken from the Land Rover 110 Australian Supplement, what was fitted to the 6 x 6.

Yes, the standard landy fitment was an industrial motor. The truck motors have a higher state of tune.

What exactly does a 3 cyl detroit sound like? I have a mental soundtrack which is a cross between a perkins 3 cyl tractor engine and an electric hair-dryer.

I agree on un-necessary oil changes.

[isuzurover]

As Dougal said. Landie engines were the industrial 4BD1/T.

The civvie 110s had an uprated pump for more power - 99Bhp IRC compared to 85 for the stage1s and perenties. Not sure what the civvie 6x6s had, but as there were only a few sold it is a moot point.

Here is some good info on the 3/4-53T:
Swap questions; 3-53T or 4-53T in an F150 - Cummins 4BT & Diesel Conversions Forums

I must admit the 4-53T sounds good:
YouTube - First test of a 4-53 Detroit Diesel in a 1956 Ford F100

3-53T - hard to hear the engine over the screaming though:
YouTube - 353T Detroit Diesel Pull

[Grimace]

All the diesel arguements, and hidden amongst them is this little gem!


hey grimace, i know where theres a 8L v10 viper motor and 4L60e for 8k if you want to push your budget? they are all alloy too.


Andy

Tell me more about the combo and how much for the motor alone.

Have since learnt that the 4l60 is to be replaced with a 4l80 as marks has a adaptor kit to suit the LT230 tcase and the 4l60 wont work with my configuration.

[isuzurover]

Sounds OK
YouTube - 353 detroit diesel In cab

Very short engine, but also looks a bit on the tall side for a landie. Might need a puma bonnet...
YouTube - 353 detroit diesel moves

YouTube - 353 detroit diesel moves 2

[isuzurover]

Now THIS sounds awesome!!!
YouTube - Pushin more snow with 6V53T Detroit in '79 F250

Better stop now...

I hope they are wrong about the weight of the engine though!!!
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product7.html

[Bigbjorn]

My stars, didn't that Henry pickup truck get moving smartly.

Height would not be a problem. The engine can be drysumped easily. There are a plethora of ancillary drives available on any Detroit for a scavenge pump.

[isuzurover]

My stars, didn't that Henry pickup truck get moving smartly.

Height would not be a problem. The engine can be drysumped easily. There are a plethora of ancillary drives available on any Detroit for a scavenge pump.

The main issue is they seem to be very rare in OZ, and the alloy version you mention seems to be rare everywhere. The only one I can find images of is all iron.

Grimy seems to feel the need to compensate for something, so I am sure he will go for either maximum cubes or maximum cylinders. Telling your mates you have a 3 cylinder 2-stroke just doesn't sound cool unless you have a sports bike... (just kidding, you know I love you Grimace ;) )

Hey Grimy - how about one of these:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/954.jpg

Mazda R26B Specifications
Layout: 4-rotor, in-line
Displacement: 654 cc x 4-rotor
Compression ratio: 10:1
Induction system: Telescopic intake manifold system
Horsepower: 690 bhp @ 9000 rpm
Torque: 448 lb-ft @ 6500 rpm
Weight: 180 kgs.
You could have 7:1 diff gears and still have a decent top speed on the highway ;)

[Bigbjorn]

The main issue is they seem to be very rare in OZ, and the alloy version you mention seems to be rare everywhere. The only one I can find images of is all iron.



Joe Hawkes at Airlie Beach (general engineering works, diesel shop, slipway, boatyard) has installed a number of the aluminium version. A number of irrigation pumps, general industrial use, gen sets, etc. He still has one in his shop, skid mounted with a radiator and four speed transmission. That engine import company on the Gold Coast, can't remember their name, say they can supply them.

(Edit) They were never sold in Oz as an OEM automotive engine. Iron ones were plentiful in industrial stationary applications, pumps, gen. sets,etcetra; also quite a few were in earthmoving and construction equipment, loaders, rollers, and so on; marine auxiliaries, smaller work boats.

[Dougal]

Sounds OK

The MF/perkins and hairdryer weren't far off.:o

[CraigE]

The pollution side of it is a simple thing, went through it with the engineer already -add cats keep the carbon pot and run a breather from the fuel tank, keep the AFM (till its regod) etc get it passed emissions and DB then loose the cats again....

as for the extra costs involved, theres not that many,, and no doubt there would be similar problems going to a 4.6, at the end of the day the LSx motor is still the way to go unless your really really keen to keep it true to rover. Its a wonder theres not kits available already, but i know marks 4x4 adapters is working on something there....
All I suggest is you go into it eyes wide open. I have spoken with a lot of people that have done the conversion and it was not a cheap exercise. To do it properly with a new crate motor, I would not expect much change out of $15k maybe more. I have heard of it costing up to $20k. Even with a second hand motor I would expect $10k plus and would recon the engine before fitting.
Its things like radiator, custom hoses, wiring, changes to the harness, air con, power steering mods, extractors / exhaust down to mounts, bellhousing and a gearbox that will handle the power. Even inspection and certification costs must be included to give a real costing. Then there is labour if there are things you can not do your self. While it is a simple conversion it is generally not as cheap as most people may infer.
Anyway good luck as I think it would be a good project and it will be informative to hear and see how you go.
:D:D

[Grimace]

All I suggest is you go into it eyes wide open. I have spoken with a lot of people that have done the conversion and it was not a cheap exercise. To do it properly with a new crate motor, I would not expect much change out of $15k maybe more. I have heard of it costing up to $20k. Even with a second hand motor I would expect $10k plus and would recon the engine before fitting.
Its things like radiator, custom hoses, wiring, changes to the harness, air con, power steering mods, extractors / exhaust down to mounts, bellhousing and a gearbox that will handle the power. Even inspection and certification costs must be included to give a real costing. Then there is labour if there are things you can not do your self. While it is a simple conversion it is generally not as cheap as most people may infer.
Anyway good luck as I think it would be a good project and it will be informative to hear and see how you go.
:D:D

I thought about this. Radiator will remain rover. Aircond??? wat is that?, power steer will be custom braided hoses, engine mounts $210, adaptor to lt230 $1200, wiring $400, new L76 engine (long) $3960, the only thing i dont have a price on is the auto and so far havnt had much luck getting the info I need in that department.

I do agree thou that whatever i think it is goin to cost I am goin to allow atleast 50% more before I spend a cent.

Cheers
Grimace

[andrew e]

All the diesel arguements, and hidden amongst them is this little gem!



Tell me more about the combo and how much for the motor alone.

Have since learnt that the 4l60 is to be replaced with a 4l80 as marks has a adaptor kit to suit the LT230 tcase and the 4l60 wont work with my configuration.

Call sean at abt. The motor was meant to go into the firetruck jeep, but plans changed. He may not still even have it, as he told me about it last year, i thought i would get you excited though.:D

Andy

[Dougal]

I thought about this. Radiator will remain rover. Aircond??? wat is that?, power steer will be custom braided hoses, engine mounts $210, adaptor to lt230 $1200, wiring $400, new L76 engine (long) $3960, the only thing i dont have a price on is the auto and so far havnt had much luck getting the info I need in that department.

I do agree thou that whatever i think it is goin to cost I am goin to allow atleast 50% more before I spend a cent.

Cheers
Grimace

How much will you have to push the LT230 back to fit the longer box and adapter?
Do modified driveshafts, transfer mounts and transfer linkages fit into the budget?

[Grimace]

How much will you have to push the LT230 back to fit the longer box and adapter?
Do modified driveshafts, transfer mounts and transfer linkages fit into the budget?

Transfer mounts and linkages will be done in house. I am hoping that I can get away with using my custom shafts, as they have long travel (8") splines already.

If not, I will sell these and get another custom pair. Maximum outlay of about $500. But I am confident I will be able to use atleast one (if not both).

[cal415]

With the GQ box in mine the transfercase sits 80mm further back and we have moved it a little further back again, looking at it we could almost use rangie rear shafts for both front and rear.... But we had to move the centre cross member back, but thats not in a rangie so no worries there.

[isuzurover]

While we are on the topic of drivetrain length, what are the shortest manual and auto options which can be bolted straight to an LT230 (using off-the shelf adaptors or similar).

[Dougal]

While we are on the topic of drivetrain length, what are the shortest manual and auto options which can be bolted straight to an LT230 (using off-the shelf adaptors or similar).

Shorter than stock?

I've always thought the average rover bellhousing was 3x longer than it needed to be. But that solution won't be off-the-shelf.

TF727 was short enough to need a front adapter, a long rear adapter and a spacer to keep the LT230 in the right place.

[Grimace]

I dont know but i have the following for the 4L80 (well that didnt work..haha)
4L80E/4L85E

Style
A
B
C
D
E

Std. 2wd
32 11/16
26
30 3/8
4 ¼
20

HD 2wd
31 15/16
26
30 3/8
4 ¼
20

HD long
33
26
30 3/8
4 ¼
20

4 X 4
29
26
30 3/8
N/A
20

[cal415]

I found very few off the shelf bits, but sure there's more out there if you look, the ones i found were t350, t400, t700 adapters and for the manuals only a patrol 5 speed to LT230 and they are rare... luckily i found mine on ebay for 950 including the transfercase and box!

Most conversions i found gearbox wise were all done with custom adapters.

[Grimace]

WOOWA! Brand new Manualised (all electronics removed) 4L80, with marks transfer adaptor, switched lockup convertor & rover shifter fitted = $6600

Not a complete suprise, and depending on how much the Gen4 can be obtained for I am seriously considering it.

[Grimace]

A bit more news on engine transplants (aplicable in QLD).

So far I am of the understanding that there is three categories that you can apply to, in order to allow an alternate engine to pass. The categories are as follows;
Capacity allowance
Power (kw) allowance
Weight allowance
(actual increase amounts are not yet known)

You only need to pass one of these categorys to obtain approval and a mod plate.

So assuming the weight of the LS2 is not over the allowable increase in weight of the rover V8, I can fit a 6.2 if I want and have 2000horsepower :eek:. and vice versa.

Will update with more info as it comes along.

[Grimace]

WOOWA! Brand new Manualised (all electronics removed) 4L80, with marks transfer adaptor, switched lockup convertor & rover shifter fitted = $6600

Not a complete suprise, and depending on how much the Gen4 can be obtained for I am seriously considering it.

Getting cheaper - $2k for good second hand box - $4500 for race spec box :cool:
One problem with the 4L80, it is approximately 220mm longer (including the marks adaptor). 890mm total length, preliminary measurement on my ZF is only around 670mm.

The chassis extension is tempting (as I wanted to extend the wheelbase 6" and 4dr ute chop it in the future anyways), so I may get all information and slowly collect the bits and peices needed to have ready for a complete overhaul on fluffy in the future.

[andrew e]

I saw a LS1 and auto box get sold at the damaged auctions today for $2k + admin fees. It even came with a rear ended statesman. Why do you want a new motor, or are you just using it as a worst case price guide?

Andy

[rovercare]

Simple physics dictates that if you boost a petrol engine, you need higher octane fuel or lower compression to prevent detonation. You could retard the ignition or richen the mixture to get some effect.
But no matter which method you choose, your off-boost efficiency takes a dive so fuel consumption increases.
If you'd rather run ethanol or av-gas to suppress detonation. Then your running cost just took another leap.

When you're on boost, all the extra air that's being pushed into the engine is acampanied by extra fuel.
Result, your fuel consumption increases.

Personally I can't see a high horsepower petrol v8 as good for anything except throwing mud or **** factor. While that might be great fun, it's not much use for a vehicle to actually go places.
A 50hp diesel tractor would be far more capable.

The problem being is you've never had a high performance V8 in a 4wd;)

I've had both, when range isn;t a concern, HP all the way

[Dougal]

The problem being is you've never had a high performance V8 in a 4wd;)

I've had both, when range isn;t a concern, HP all the way

So how do BMW and VW win outright stages in the paris-dakar with diesels?

[Bigbjorn]

So how do BMW and VW win outright stages in the paris-dakar with diesels?

They are works teams with purpose built race cars that bear only superficial resemblance to what they sell to the retail customers.

[Vern]

So how do BMW and VW win outright stages in the paris-dakar with diesels?
Are VW using the T5 engine?

[rovercare]

So how do BMW and VW win outright stages in the paris-dakar with diesels?

Who gives a toss, that's hardly the 4wdriving ANYONE here does, is it;)

[Rangier Rover]

The way I look at it is.... If its for recreational or mild comp use and not a daily driver the Big HP V8 is good.
If a daily driver or long distance tourer then the oiler is far better but not as drivable off road with lack of rev range.

Hopefully I'll have one set up each way soon:) Supercharged Rangie and the 4BD1 T 120" Best of both worlds:D

If I had the time and inclination I'd try the commy bent 8 for sure. I think in a heavier vehicle with larger tyres etc they may be a little thirsty though.
Be no worse than the Rover 8 however.

[Dougal]

They are works teams with purpose built race cars that bear only superficial resemblance to what they sell to the retail customers.

Which beat all the works teams and privateers with purpose built big power V8's.;)
Unlimited class, diesels win.
Hmm.

The reality is, you can't use big hp offroad, anyone who thinks you can hasn't thought about it particularly hard.
You can use big torque though and the lower that torque is in the rpm band, the better.

Lets do the maths.
2.5t 4wd.
Grip on the ground of 0.3 times it's weight.
Power required to spin all four wheels at 50km/h.
P = force x velocity
P = 2500(kg)*9.81(g)*0.3(grip)*13.9 (m/s)
P = 102kW.

What is the aim again?
Going places?
Throwing mud/sand?
Bragging around the camp-fire?

[Disco_owner]

The way I look at it is.... If its for recreational or mild comp use and not a daily driver the Big HP V8 is good.
If a daily driver or long distance tourer then the oiler is far better but not as drivable off road with lack of rev range.

Hopefully I'll have one set up each way soon:) Supercharged Rangie and the 4BD1 T 120" Best of both worlds:D

If I had the time and inclination I'd try the commy bent 8 for sure. I think in a heavier vehicle with larger tyres etc they may be a little thirsty though.
Be no worse than the Rover 8 however.

Tony , even for Mild Comp my Tdi with the right gearing is adequate enough to compete , however if I were to take my tdi to stockton beach and try and follow behind someone with a big HP petrol engine up a BIG sand dune then I have no hope in hell with 35" tyres to climb up some of the sand dunes. I'll certainly try , Mike ( Cal415) does a lot of Beach driving , he would have a lot more experience at this than anyone else here , and it's not about throwing Mud or kicking sand or what ever else mentioned here.

[Dougal]

Tony , even for Mild Comp my Tdi with the right gearing is adequate enough to compete , however if I were to take my tdi to stockton beach and try and follow behind someone with a big HP petrol engine up a BIG sand dune then I have no hope in hell with 35" tyres to climb up some of the sand dunes. I certainly try , Mike ( Cal415) does a lot of Beach driving , he would have a lot more experience at this than anyone else here , and it's not about throwing Mud or kicking sand or what ever else mentioned here.

How about Mike puts the biggest V8 he can fit into a landrover and we try it out on sand-dunes against a 4BD1T wrapped in whatever we like?

My money is still on the 4BD1T.:twisted:
Dieselbuggy's awsome isuzu YOU MUST LOOK!! - Cummins 4BT & Diesel Conversions Forums

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/765.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/765.jpg

:angel:

[Disco_owner]

How about Mike puts the biggest V8 he can fit into a landrover and we try it out on sand-dunes against a 4BD1T wrapped in whatever we like?

My money is still on the 4BD1T.:twisted:
Dieselbuggy's awsome isuzu YOU MUST LOOK!! - Cummins 4BT & Diesel Conversions Forums (http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php't=7435)

http://inlinethumb40.webshots.com/4071/2548711170101688096S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/40691/2337109680101688096S600x600Q85.jpg

:angel:


No Thanks :angel:

have a look at the amount of Black Smoke pouring out the back of the Gunbuggy :p I'd like to be able to breathe while I'm driving up Big Dunes on full noise. but seriously the original poster 's intentions are to replace his Petrol engine with a Petrol engine not a 4BD1T ;)

[Dougal]

No Thanks :angel:

have a look at the amount of Black Smoke pouring out the back of the Gunbuggy :p I'd like to be able to breathe while I'm driving up a Big Dunes on full noise. but seriously the original poster 's intentions are to replace his Petrol engine with a Petrol engine not a 4BD1T ;)

Yes he needs another turbo. I'm not a fan of "dirty tunes" either and with more boost that one will produce the same power cleanly on less fuel.
There's another 4BD1T which was built up with compound turbos. But it was in a 2wd ford so not as much use in the sand.

[rovercare]

Which beat all the works teams and privateers with purpose built big power V8's.;)
Unlimited class, diesels win.
Hmm.

The reality is, you can't use big hp offroad, anyone who thinks you can hasn't thought about it particularly hard.
You can use big torque though and the lower that torque is in the rpm band, the better.

Lets do the maths.
2.5t 4wd.
Grip on the ground of 0.3 times it's weight.
Power required to spin all four wheels at 50km/h.
P = force x velocity
P = 2500(kg)*9.81(g)*0.3(grip)*13.9 (m/s)
P = 102kW.

What is the aim again?
Going places?
Throwing mud/sand?
Bragging around the camp-fire?

BS, build both, drive both, then tell me your personal experiences

Each has their own purpose to fulfill........

None of us are racing the Dakar, so really, pretty irrelevant, engineers talk theory, some of us, use pragmatic thought process, others, do it cause they wan't to:D

Can you use big HP offroad?.........must be no, that's why my next non paying personal project invlolves a shade under 500ci of engine:wasntme:

Am I a ******? well I'm only a male human

Do I need to brag around the camp fire? I think not

[Bigbjorn]

You need the big power for throttle response and acceleration and for speed.

[Dougal]

You need the big power for throttle response and acceleration and for speed.

No, that's what big torque provides.
Big power only arrives with high revs.

The two are often confused.
If Rovercare is building a 500ci vehicle then he's probably looking for big torque. As many smaller motors easily provide far more peak power. Skyline or ford turbo 6's for example.

[rovercare]

The two are often confused.
If Rovercare is building a 500ci vehicle then he's probably looking for big torque. As many smaller motors easily provide far more peak power. Skyline or ford turbo 6's for example.

No I'm after both, Torque and HP, My 4BD1 is quite pleasant to putt around in, but stand on it :(

[Bigbjorn]

No, that's what big torque provides.
Big power only arrives with high revs.

The two are often confused.
If Rovercare is building a 500ci vehicle then he's probably looking for big torque. As many smaller motors easily provide far more peak power. Skyline or ford turbo 6's for example.

People often confuse torque and horsepower. Torque is capacity to do work. Horsepower introduces a time factor, work done in time taken.

I can assure you that if you don't have horsepower you don't get high speeds even if you have sufficient torque to move Ayers Rock from a standing start. Ask any knowledgable truck operator.

Many, if not most, of those small high revving blown engines are all revs and noise and could not pull a greasy stick out of a dog's bum from a standstill. Revs, boost, and low gearing are how they function. If you want capacity to work you need cubic inches whether they are blown or not.

You can design and build an engine for one extreme or the other. You will be disappointed with its servicability outside its design parameter. A genral purpose engine that has reasonable performance at both ends of the revs scale will be a compromise.

[Vern]

Am I a ******?
Oh i can answer that one:p











and i bet you can to;):p

[350RRC]

Oh i can answer that one:p

and i bet you can to;):p

Jeez............ you know yer mates in this world. :D :D

[Dougal]

People often confuse torque and horsepower. Torque is capacity to do work. Horsepower introduces a time factor, work done in time taken.

Torque is simply twisting force. More of it means you accelerate harder, pull higher gears etc.
Power can be expressed several different ways to make it clearer.
Power is force x velocity.
Power is torque x rotating speed.
Power is how fast you are performing work.



I can assure you that if you don't have horsepower you don't get high speeds even if you have sufficient torque to move Ayers Rock from a standing start. Ask any knowledgable truck operator.

"don't have horsepower" means what?
Any turning shaft has power, presume you're talking about how much.
Higher peak power is shown in two ways.
1. Higher top speed (provided the right gearing is used).
2. You can get up hills faster. Providing that power was your previous limiting factor. In most cases offroad it's not.



Many, if not most, of those small high revving blown engines are all revs and noise and could not pull a greasy stick out of a dog's bum from a standstill. Revs, boost, and low gearing are how they function. If you want capacity to work you need cubic inches whether they are blown or not.

You can design and build an engine for one extreme or the other. You will be disappointed with its servicability outside its design parameter. A genral purpose engine that has reasonable performance at both ends of the revs scale will be a compromise.

That's true of any engine, whether it's a smaller engine with forced induction or, a big 6 or a V8.

Many people in the quest for "more power" build engines to provide their peak torque higher up the rev range. The closer your peak torque gets to your max rpm then the more power you make.
And the more your engine sucks for drivability. Some can't even idle.
Which is why choosing an engine for offroad based on peak power is just dumb.

The goal for any offroad engine is maximum area under the curves, not highest peak. To get maximum area under the curve you need lots of torque at low rpm.
This is what diesels do and funnily enough why people loved the old V8's as well. The peak power from some older V8's was woeful, holden had a V8 in the mid 90's which produced 3kw more than their V6.
But people still preferred the V8.

[Grimace]

The main reason I dont want to but a 4BD1 in it is due to weight.
Don't get me wrong I love the big torque diesels, just not for what I want to do.

I also intend on keeping the rangie front to rear balance as close as possible. Which unfortunately (or fortunately) rules out old chevs and the 4BD1.

And I still prefer the dirty big loud powerful V8! vroomm vroooooom bwaaaaaaa vrooooooom :D

[isuzurover]

The main reason I dont want to but a 4BD1 in it is due to weight.
Don't get me wrong I love the big torque diesels, just not for what I want to do.

I also intend on keeping the rangie front to rear balance as close as possible. Which unfortunately (or fortunately) rules out old chevs and the 4BD1.



There is something in this. My NA 2.25D powered IIA goes better on (soft WA beach) sand than my 4BD1T powered 110.

Same wheelbase
285s on the IIA, 255s on the 110
500-1000kg more weight on the 110
110 has more than double the peak power and torque of the IIA
The 4BD1T is at least 200kg heavier

The 110 always feels like the heavy front end is trying to dig in. The extra power and torque means it still gets through most sections without issues, but it works a lot harder over identical bits of terrain.

I suppose I should swap tyres and try again to see if the small amount of extra width makes a difference though.

[cal415]

Swapping the tyres would probobly make it worse, i find narrow tyres work great in sand due to the fact your not cutting through as much sand width wise, as you go wider you need to apply more throttle and work the motor harder to keep your momentum. The weight thing would definetly be the main factor.

[Jewells]

:cool:Reminds me of a lovely late afternoon drive along North shore on the way to Rainbow beach in an old G60 with a 253 Marks 5spd and 33's, tide coming in, nothing but soft white sand to trek on, temp guage on 120, foot on the boards and moving at around 2 km p/hour when a wiser man drove past me in a smokey old lowlux with ally tray and stockies, comfortably cruizing at around 60 kph.:(

(apologies for the lack of Rover content) although.... that day also reminds me of a drive a couple of weeks ago dragging the family up to the top of Bulla with the 3.5 BW35 2 door, very similar - foot on the boards, 2 kph temp guage begging for mercy and my sphinkta clenched so tight I got stretchmarks.:o

Make it big, make it rev

[Vern]

So does that mean you'll stroke that 5 litre:angel: ^^

[frantic]

Go the diesel if your doing long distance touring but go the gm 6l v8 with direct injection LPG for more fun at a cheaper rate:D(50-60c/L at the moment). Get duel fuel for a reasonable touring range so you can go outback on your lpg and when thats empty return on petrol in your 2nd tank with a jerry can or 2 as safety.
In nsw ( not sure about qld) anything over 10% larger in engine capacity requires an eng. cert.

[Grimace]

Well thanks for the info and opinions guys.

Unfortunately I am not goin to be doin anything anytime soon as I just bought a disco... hey it was cheap, I couldn't say no! :(:D:angel:

But I do intend on spending a few dollars improving the standard 3.9 in the future, just not gonna bother goin all out just yet, and have kept the info for a LS2 on file.

[Grimace]

in the mean time I somehow ended up spending $$$ on the original 3.9 bottom end, then got a 4.6, then got some more head work, ported inlet...
Custom chips, many hours of tuning....


Now I am looking to go 5.7 or 6L LS motor, just as I should have darn well done in the first place!
So to all who suggested the GM/Chev motor in the first place, I should have listen to you!

[Rick Fischer]

Coming very late to this.

Once upon a time I used to get access to US magazines off road and Sports. I recall in one article on Rangies (RRCs) even the yanks were complaining about the fuel consumption; 6+ litre Suburbans were much more economical - Suburban - economical - OXYMORON; but there you go!

With time over again, and with a RRC, I'd do a GM or Ford V8 diesel in a box c/w computer, or the same in a Gen 3 or equivalent. An modern engine that is in Oz in an F100 or a Commodore. RRC with a 7ltr F100 V8 diesel -------DROOOOLLLL!!!

Cheers

RF

[superquag]

I know of a Classic that's hooning around with a FORD V8 in it... Goes very well indeed, and when he departed my estate recently, all four tyres chirped as it changed up. Impressive.

Best of all, you can get blue 'Ford' ovals that are similar size to the Land Rover green badges, should you wish to complete the engine identification on grille and tailgate....

[sheerluck]

.......Best of all, you can get blue 'Ford' ovals that are similar size to the Land Rover green badges, should you wish to complete the engine identification on grille and tailgate....

How can you talk of such sacrilege? [puts hands over ears and refuses to listen to talk of Ford once owning Land Rover]

[rovercare]

I know of a Classic that's hooning around with a FORD V8 in it... Goes very well indeed, and when he departed my estate recently, all four tyres chirped as it changed up. Impressive.

Best of all, you can get blue 'Ford' ovals that are similar size to the Land Rover green badges, should you wish to complete the engine identification on grille and tailgate....

One tyre chirped, not 4;)

[rovercare]

in the mean time I somehow ended up spending $$$ on the original 3.9 bottom end, then got a 4.6, then got some more head work, ported inlet...
Custom chips, many hours of tuning....


Now I am looking to go 5.7 or 6L LS motor, just as I should have darn well done in the first place!
So to all who suggested the GM/Chev motor in the first place, I should have listen to you!

Could of told you that years ago, probably did:p

Rover V8's in almost all forms are lacklustre in regards to performance, for those that way inclined

[isuzurover]

Could of told you that years ago, probably did:p

Rover V8's in almost all forms are lacklustre in regards to performance, for those that way inclined

All things are relative. The rover V8 is a fire breathing monster compared to a daimler 250-v8... :D

DAIMLER 250 V8 - YouTube
(despite the size, it is apparently heavier than the rover).

[Davo]

That's right. I'm more than happy with the Rover V8 - because I'm used to the 2.25 petrol motor. It's so nice just to be able to cruise at highway speeds . . .

[clubagreenie]

don wory instead of haveing a big v8,,, i was thinking more of a 2j out of a skyline, ,, i got this idear cos im geting a biger intercooler and my mate sead y dont u get a big front mount IC,:D iv never seen a fender with that :D,, and then he sead well since your allready there put my 2J in it,, hahah,, the fender would then have a masive blowoff valve then :D:D such a child

Sklines didn't come with 2J's, not even Supras did. JZS17X's etc did, Passenger luxo barges. It would be awful in anything as heavy as a rover let alone it's be heavier for a 6 than the rover v8.

As for turbos, great if you don't want to think about how to make power. Then there's the issue of needing 3000+ rpm for power....

Just get a crate LS7, unstamped and add your current engine no.

[rovercare]

All things are relative. The rover V8 is a fire breathing monster compared to a daimler 250-v8... :D

DAIMLER 250 V8 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8mFGlhR7SI)
(despite the size, it is apparently heavier than the rover).

They are cute:D


Russ Carpenters Daimler powered drag car - YouTube

[PeterM]

I see that there is more than one man thinking along the same lines as myself. I've seen some of the new 6sp autos coming available now, that extra cog would make for a nice difference.

[Rick Fischer]

Could of told you that years ago, probably did:p

Rover V8's in almost all forms are lacklustre in regards to performance, for those that way inclined


Mmmmmmm! basis for winning Formula 5000 Repco V8, and in the Bathurst Rovers, (SD1s?) thinks they won, but don't really recall. That was when the race was proper!

If someone really wants to give the ol' Rover V8 a going over I would suggest you obtain a copy of "Tuning Rover V8 Engines" by David Hardcastle ISBN 0 85429 933 5

Still reckon a good (modern) 7ltr Ford or GM diesel would be the dukz gutz.

Cheers

RF

[rick130]

Mmmmmmm! basis for winning Formula 5000 Repco V8, and in the Bathurst Rovers, (SD1s?) thinks they won, but don't really recall. That was when the race was proper!

If someone really wants to give the ol' Rover V8 a going over I would suggest you obtain a copy of "Tuning Rover V8 Engines" by David Hardcastle ISBN 0 85429 933 5

Still reckon a good (modern) 7ltr Ford or GM diesel would be the dukz gutz.

Cheers

RF

You could also say it sort of won two world F1 Championships too as the 3l Repco was the same Buick block based engine in SOHC form.

Of course as soon as Cosworth had the DFV up and running it was game over.

[rovercare]

Mmmmmmm! basis for winning Formula 5000 Repco V8, and in the Bathurst Rovers, (SD1s?) thinks they won, but don't really recall. That was when the race was proper!

If someone really wants to give the ol' Rover V8 a going over I would suggest you obtain a copy of "Tuning Rover V8 Engines" by David Hardcastle ISBN 0 85429 933 5

Still reckon a good (modern) 7ltr Ford or GM diesel would be the dukz gutz.

Cheers

RF

Your living in the past man:p

Big oiler?

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/153501-i-think-im-heading-dark-side-7.html

I've had the odd engine in a rover, they are still lacklustre, the supercharged 3.9 I had was okish, but nothing an N/A 5l wouldn't keep up with, rover V8 not so much, heads are just to small

[superquag]

One tyre chirped, not 4;)

Well, it was hellishly loud indeed and longer duration than the usual hoons in my street...

Engine sounded nice too:p

Speaking of engines, does/did Holden make a worthwhile 5 litre aluminium v8 that could drop into a Classic with minimum fuss ?

[rovercare]

Well, it was hellishly loud indeed and longer duration than the usual hoons in my street...

Engine sounded nice too:p

Speaking of engines, does/did Holden make a worthwhile 5 litre aluminium v8 that could drop into a Classic with minimum fuss ?

They make a 4.8 and 5.3 in the ls range

[Slunnie]

They make a 4.8 and 5.3 in the ls range
Were they Chev motors? I thought the Holdens were all iron? No?

[rovercare]

They make a 4.8 and 5.3 in the ls range


Were they Chev motors? I thought the Holdens were all iron? No?

In the states, never seen one in real life, not sure why you'd put a 4.8 in, when it's the same dimensions as a 6l, when doing a conversion

[Slunnie]

They make a 4.8 and 5.3 in the ls range

Ahhh, sorry. I read that as "is in the range" thinking you meant that they were roughly 5 litre as opposed to what you actually wrote. :(

[PeterM]

I had a strangely enjoyable early afternoon on Saturday. It consisted of speaking with a VASS engineer and surfing the web for goodies.

End result - I have a pretty good outline of the cost and build spec. for a Vortec 350 Chev that I wish to fit to the Disco. I've decided that it'd be easier to build up a long motor rather than purchase one of the turn-key options out there as they are not set up to pass emissions standards that I'll have to meet for engineering and I don't want a 'bling-bling' chrome-fest under the bonnet.

I'm actually quite excited by the prospect so now to save the biccies and build it up!

[clubagreenie]

Take the amount of time you "think" it will take to build up. Multiply by 4. Now take your budget and multiply by new build time.

= final figures.

[PeterM]

haha, such a cynic.

It won't be quite that bad as I'm a meticulous planner and have access to some skilled labour to assist (brother is a mechanic). We can't do it all but it'll help keep the overall costs down.

[clubagreenie]

Thats what we thought when I started working on toyo UZ's.

50k later...

And I have TIG/Gas/stick facilities, mill, lathe, sheet rolling, folding/bending, spot welding etc.

[Davo]

Thats what we thought when I started working on toyo UZ's.

50k later...

And I have TIG/Gas/stick facilities, mill, lathe, sheet rolling, folding/bending, spot welding etc.

In a smaller way, it's always been the same with me. First Landie rebuild in the 90s, 2&1/2 years. I figured it would take several months.

I know better now but for some reason it still doesn't stop me.

[350RRC]

In a smaller way, it's always been the same with me. First Landie rebuild in the 90s, 2&1/2 years. I figured it would take several months.

I know better now but for some reason it still doesn't stop me.

Can relate to that. Did a body swap on my 2 door that I thought would take less than a month but took about four.

At one stage there was just the 350 sitting in a bare chassis. No wheels, diffs or anything.

The 350 had 400k k's on it and was the only thing that didn't get touched!

DL

[PeterM]

Well I've pretty well settled on what will be done to make it able to be engineered etc. Short story is -
1994 Disco 3dr manual
Current
Maxi-drive back end
2" susp lift
1" body lift
Stock 3.9 on dual fuel

Planned
350 Vortec crate motor (330hp) on straight gas
Rebuild R380 & LT230 while engine is out
Marks 4wd adaptor kit
Replace petrol tank with underbody LPG tanks for 120L useable.

Other plans in mind for when funds become available too.

[rovercare]

Well I've pretty well settled on what will be done to make it able to be engineered etc. Short story is -
1994 Disco 3dr manual
Current
Maxi-drive back end
2" susp lift
1" body lift
Stock 3.9 on dual fuel

Planned
350 Vortec crate motor (330hp) on straight gas
Rebuild R380 & LT230 while engine is out
Marks 4wd adaptor kit
Replace petrol tank with underbody LPG tanks for 120L useable.

Other plans in mind for when funds become available too.

I've done a little hunting, you can buy a 153 tooth flywheel/ring gear for LS engines from Summit, they are sourced from Mcleod flywheels, also matching starter

I'd do this, you'll find 120L of LPG a nightmare for long high country trips and once you run out on straight LPG you'll curse yourself

I think you'll get a far better result this way, you just need to use the adaptor plate from marks to chev....they'll argue about selling bits seperately, but they will

[Vern]

Agree with matt, straight lpg is not a good idea, what range will that give you? 300 odd K's? Less in the high country.

[PeterM]

The emissions compliance is the bit that is moving me towards straight gas. I can't get it engineered without emissions and to do that will cost a fair bit for the test, let alone the hardware to ensure I have a shot at passing! I've done some sums and the costs are such that to go petrol will cost about the same as going to straight gas (including extra tanks) but then the test cost goes on top of that. If I wanted to retain dual fuel then there are additional costs due to the extra under bonnet gear.

I could be dodgy and remove the petrol gear for the engineering and re-fit afterwards but I come back to the only advantage being the ability to refuel from a jerry can.

Fit an LS and I will pretty much have to swap the transmission. More expense as well as the custom work with adaptor plates for things that haven't been done before.

120L of LPG should be good for 500-600km on road but I appreciate that it won't be an option for longer duration trips away from towns. The most I've done previously has been long weekends away and the existing combination of LPG and petrol has been sufficient with a range similar to what I'd get on straight gas. If I was looking at a vehicle to do longer trips on I'd be heading in a very different direction. As it is, its going towards more of a capable rig for day trips or weekends.

Its a bit of a conundrum and not completely straightforward.

[rovercare]

Ls using factory ECU, cat, purge solenoid, airflow, tune etc should have no requirement for emmissions testing

120L usable with a small block che in the bush expect 350-400kms

Now if you ever decide to go to talbotville for example, your in for a crap time on straight LPG

Why is it that you think a 350 will be fine with the R380 and an LS won't?

[Fubar]

I've run straight LPG before and even for weekend trips it can be a total PITA. Take a wrong turn after hours anywhere from a major road or township and you are in the poo. With that many cubes and that amount of weight you will hoover up the LPG offroad like it is going out of fashion.

I've run old chevy trucks, 2wd and 4wd, for the past 20 years and had lpg of some sort on every one. I can't recommend enough the option of dual fuel, you will find that there will be a heap of places you wont go, and things you wont do due to the risks associated with getting caught out a long way from a fill station without enough range to get back for a re-fuel. Every trip ends up getting planned out like you are flying there....calculating fuel loads, establishing turn around points etc etc

It will take the shine of all the work you are proposing to do.

Just my 2c.

Jas

[PeterM]

I was figuring that based on the output of each engine that the LS would be too much for the R380.

You're right that an LS with stock injection & emissions system would cruise in on the emissions front. I could do the same with an injected 350 in Suburban spec but they are like hens teeth.

How much moving around of ancillaries on an LS is required to fit around the steering box etc.?

Are the LS's the same bolt pattern to permit the use of the same adaptor plates as a 350? What about engine mounts?

Thank you for your input guys, it is an unknown for me and I don't want to screw the pooch with it. Do it once and do it right is how I like to do things.

[PeterM]

Hmm, further investigations have been interesting......

The guys at Marks 4wd Adaptors have been busy. They have a very comprehensive list of bits for this conversion with the sole exception being engine mounts.

They've developed their own engine harness to eliminate the various sensors that are not present on the Disco, brackets for ancillaries, billet flywheel and starter (153t) the adaptor kit itself and also headers to fit between the chassis rails. They also have other bits on hand such as fuel pressure reg, up-rated fuel pump etc. Given that I can get a decent used LS1 engine with ancillaries from $2500 the overall cost isn't too bad actually. A bit of a tune should help the off-idle torque response without resorting to camshaft swaps.

On the LPG front, as I've got existing tanks I could have injected gas fitted down the track with only the under bonnet stuff needed.

So, with that I'd have an unchanged capacity of gas and petrol with a compliant engine that *should* be more efficient while being more powerful.

Hmmmm.

[Bigbjorn]

Well, it was hellishly loud indeed and longer duration than the usual hoons in my street...

Engine sounded nice too:p

Speaking of engines, does/did Holden make a worthwhile 5 litre aluminium v8 that could drop into a Classic with minimum fuss ?

Why not e-mail GM Goodwrench Performance Parts in the USA. Aluminium Chev small blocks have been available since the 1960's, initially only to selected clients like Chapparal, but by the 80's were listed in the Performance Parts catalogue and available to all & sundry through the goodwrench dealer network. I used to deal with MacPherson Chevrolet in Irvine, CA. They were the closest performance parts dealer to my shipping agent in Long Beach. I don't know if they still exist. I found a reference to an aluminium 350 bare block, iron sleeves, four bolt mains for 2.45" crankshaft. Part No. 366300. There were at least three types of aluminium heads to suit.

[clubagreenie]

The LS1 conversion sounds the goods depending on the costs for the kit.

The abundance of parts available for the chevs is why I avoid them. It's just too easy.

[Bigbjorn]

Why not e-mail GM Goodwrench Performance Parts in the USA. Aluminium Chev small blocks have been available since the 1960's, initially only to selected clients like Chapparal, but by the 80's were listed in the Performance Parts catalogue and available to all & sundry through the goodwrench dealer network. I used to deal with MacPherson Chevrolet in Irvine, CA. They were the closest performance parts dealer to my shipping agent in Long Beach. I don't know if they still exist. I found a reference to an aluminium 350 bare block, iron sleeves, four bolt mains for 2.45" crankshaft. Part No. 366300. There were at least three types of aluminium heads to suit.

That part no. has been superseded by 10185075. Described as a 350 race block tested to 800 hp. 3.986" rough finish bores. Max bore size 4.15". Numerous aluminium cylinder heads available. The fast burn heads look the goods.

[PeterM]

The LS1 conversion sounds the goods depending on the costs for the kit.

The abundance of parts available for the chevs is why I avoid them. It's just too easy.

I've found when adding things up that the costs to make a compliant dual fuel 350 is about the same as an LS1, unless you are happy to start with a used 350 motor and don't plan on rebuilding it.

The amount of parts available for both conversions is extensive and very few of them are model specific so there is an economy of scale to be had with many of them.

[isuzurover]

That part no. has been superseded by 10185075. Described as a 350 race block tested to 800 hp. 3.986" rough finish bores. Max bore size 4.15". Numerous aluminium cylinder heads available. The fast burn heads look the goods.

You forgot to mention that it costs $5k for a bare block. The same as you can pick up a new crate LS1 for complete...

[Bigbjorn]

You forgot to mention that it costs $5k for a bare block. The same as you can pick up a new crate LS1 for complete...

What's a few dollars if you are building up a top class performer.

Here are a few crate engine options:-

LS1, 350 hp, $6171, no ecu or harness.

LS3 376/480 Hot Cam, 480 hp, $7996, no ecu or harness.

Fast Burn 385, 385 hp, $6954, ready to run turn key engine.

ZZ4, 355 hp, $6154, ready to run turn key engine.

CT525, 525 hp, race engine, $8750, requires carb, starter, ignition controller.

The Fast Burn 385 and the ZZ4 are the best value.

Remember these are manufacturer's recommended retail prices in US$. Some dealers try to charge considerably more. Some are willing to negotiate.

Add to those prices, packing and shipping, duty, gst, customs agent and wharf charges, etc.

[isuzurover]

What's a few dollars if you are building up a top class performer....

I am surprised that someone who complains long and hard about the cost of craft ales would say that... ;)

Currently on ebay - ex melbourne!

CHEVROLET CRATE MOTOR LS1 355 5.7 LTR ALLOY ENGINE BRAND NEW LONG HQ HZ SS GEN3
Item condition: Brand New
Time left: 16 days 14 hours (27 Feb, 2013 13:41:59 AEDST)
Price: AU $4,850.00
CHEVROLET CRATE MOTOR LS1 355 5.7 LTR ALLOY ENGINE BRAND NEW LONG HQ HZ SS GEN3 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CHEVROLET-CRATE-MOTOR-LS1-355-5-7-LTR-ALLOY-ENGINE-BRAND-NEW-LONG-HQ-HZ-SS-GEN3-/221062547779?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item33785ac943)

[Bigbjorn]

I am surprised that someone who complains long and hard about the cost of craft ales would say that... ;)

Currently on ebay - ex melbourne!

CHEVROLET CRATE MOTOR LS1 355 5.7 LTR ALLOY ENGINE BRAND NEW LONG HQ HZ SS GEN3 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CHEVROLET-CRATE-MOTOR-LS1-355-5-7-LTR-ALLOY-ENGINE-BRAND-NEW-LONG-HQ-HZ-SS-GEN3-/221062547779?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item33785ac943)

That is a damn good price. If you wanted one then snap up that one. It is about $3000 less than what it costs to buy one in the USA and land it here in your shed. I wonder what the story is? Bankrupt stock sold off at auction, stalled or failed project, divorce?

In mid-2011 I made enquiries in the USA for an ally small block on behalf of a friend who is restoring an open cockpit sprint car for historic events. Almost a twin of the one I had then. I found that a few of the Goodwrench dealers I contacted wanted to charge a premium over list price up to $2000. Ones prepared to negotiate wanted to know what else we were going to buy first. The size of the final bill was important in determining any discount. I got the impression that there is not a lot of fat in these sales and that some dealers regarded the products as "put up a sign and hope for some extra business". Like many of our country Land Rover dealers in the 70's.

He decided to shelve that project and finish his Miller replica first with the pre-war 255 Offy I found for him. This will be fun. Two wheel mechanical brakes by hand lever and 300+ horsepower from the Offy.

As to my complaining about "boutique" or "craft" beers, I will complain about anything I perceive as a rip off and the grossly overpriced craft beers are a rip off. Most of them taste peculiar and I consider not worth buying let alone at their elevated prices. A very few I would buy again if the prices were lowered to somewhere near the prices of mainstream beers.

[PeterM]

That one is only a long motor so not as good a value as you may first think.

Add costs of the inlet manifold, injection system, throttle body, headers etc. and it starts to look decidedly exxy.

[isuzurover]

That one is only a long motor so not as good a value as you may first think.

Add costs of the inlet manifold, injection system, throttle body, headers etc. and it starts to look decidedly exxy.

No chance of finding a buggered/cooked LS1 at a wrecker to get all those bits off? Surely you would need custom extractors anyway?

[PeterM]

Yes, will need custom headers to fit but Marks 4wd already have those developed.

I can get a complete LS1 with all those bits from about $2.5k on Ebay. Sell off the stock bits you don't need and the cost for the engine only, ready to go into the LR comes to something more like $3.5-4k. Its not new or reconditioned but its a hell of a lot cheaper and you could recondition yourself for cheaper if you can wield a few tools.

[Bigbjorn]

That one is only a long motor so not as good a value as you may first think.

Add costs of the inlet manifold, injection system, throttle body, headers etc. and it starts to look decidedly exxy.

The Goodwrech engine is complete ready to run bar the ecu & wiring harness.

[PeterM]

Yep, that 350hp LS1 crate motor would be a nice purchase.

[Bigbjorn]

Yep, that 350hp LS1 crate motor would be a nice purchase.

I would be looking closely at either of the ready to run turn key engines if I was in the market for a street Chev.

[presto22]

reviving an old thread here, hope you don't mind! Very interesting read, just wondering what happened with this, Grimace? Did you end up running the 4.6 and still holding off on the LS? Any plans to still carry on with the upgrade?

[pannawonica]

That is a damn good price. If you wanted one then snap up that one. It is about $3000 less than what it costs to buy one in the USA and land it here in your shed. I wonder what the story is? Bankrupt stock sold off at auction, stalled or failed project, divorce?

In mid-2011 I made enquiries in the USA for an ally small block on behalf of a friend who is restoring an open cockpit sprint car for historic events. Almost a twin of the one I had then. I found that a few of the Goodwrench dealers I contacted wanted to charge a premium over list price up to $2000. Ones prepared to negotiate wanted to know what else we were going to buy first. The size of the final bill was important in determining any discount. I got the impression that there is not a lot of fat in these sales and that some dealers regarded the products as "put up a sign and hope for some extra business". Like many of our country Land Rover dealers in the
He decided to shelve that project and finish his Miller replica first with the pre-war 255 Offy I found for him. This will be fun. Two wheel mechanical brakes by hand lever and 300+ horsepower from the Offy.

As to my complaining about "boutique" or "craft" beers, I will complain about anything I perceive as a rip off and the grossly overpriced craft beers are a rip off. Most of them taste peculiar and I consider not worth buying let alone at their elevated prices. A very few I would buy again if the prices were lowered to somewhere near the prices of mainstream beers.

I have too agree about the overprice beers most of them come in as a confusion of flavours. Trying to be smart or whatever to justify the the price, so they chuck everything in to be sofisticated.

[Grimace]

reviving an old thread here, hope you don't mind! Very interesting read, just wondering what happened with this, Grimace? Did you end up running the 4.6 and still holding off on the LS? Any plans to still carry on with the upgrade?

Hey Presto,

The 4.6 is still in the vehicle and is still running.
But to date I constantly wish I had gone with an LS conversion (with the late model 6LE80 auto) and even more so now that Les Richmond Auto have done a lot of work around said conversion and have a lot of knowledge and parts to aid in the process.

It would certainly be more costly but IMHO much more enjoyable viable and long term.
Then the power is non comparable IMHO, a built 4.6 while having substantial torque over a 3.9 down low, simply wont have the HP up top and wont ever be comparable to a LS1 let alone a LS2/3 L76/98, LSA (drool)

It's only a matter of time before my Engine or Auto will need further attention.

If the 4.6 is cheap and or has top hat liners already installed then it's a ok option and much easier to swap as little to no fabrication is required.

I do still plan to fit the supercharger and have a complete aftermarket ecu (microsquirt) to install, but funds have been stoopid tight for me over the last three months and time management is my weakest link!
Mine has standard liners so is going to suffer once the supercharger is installed but I am doing it as a learning curve and hobby more then anything.
My method of doing so is certainly not something I would recommend.

[clive22]

Hi

I'm going to do an engine swap next late next year and looking at an LS1.

It'll be going into my V8 County

What parts do Les Richmond have that makes that job easier?

I was thinking of using the Marks Adaptor kit to my rebuilt LT85.

My main concern is matching up the looms, and other ancillaries etc.


Clive

[Grimace]

LRA have the adapter for the 6L80E auto to the LT230 which is what I would do given the new donk would be best suited to a newer auto.

They have the chassis mounts sorted, scallaped section fo the chassis to clear the exhaust, the intake sorted and the harness to suit. It is not cheap but it is the price you pay for what could possibly be the best LS transplants available.

The auto will prob cost as much as a second hand LS2 (some can be found cheaper).
If you google your way to Les Richmond Auto you will see a number of LS 6L80 projects have been/currently being done.

I'd love to beat on one of their projects and put it to real use off road.

[presto22]

Hi
I'm going to do an engine swap next late next year and looking at an LS1.
It'll be going into my V8 County
What parts do Les Richmond have that makes that job easier?
I was thinking of using the Marks Adaptor kit to my rebuilt LT85.
My main concern is matching up the looms, and other ancillaries etc.
Clive

If you have it, check out Les Richmond's facebook page - plenty of build photos on there. I was glued to the computer for a good hour or so checking out his work and how he shoehorned things together. VERY impressive!

[clive22]

Hi


Yes I did check out the page and some you tube vids, it's a good version and dropping in just about the entire drivetrain bar the relatively Independant lt230 has a lot of ape wall


Big v8 and autos are a match that just works and I can see why he chose it, though there fairly exxy as grimace pointed out.

This will be a project for next year and I will be doing it with my 110 not the 100 inch rangie. This means cause of the deeper chassis' rails different engine mounts, chassis' notching. I'll need to erase arch looms, the vss, fuel pumps and plenums, looms, etc., exhausts,

All work that needs to be sorted in principle before engines and transmissions are ordered


Clive