Capstan winches information required

[ellard]

Hi there all

Seeking some information from forum experts/members.

There has always been a big debate regarding capstans - now what is the correct way of identifying what was for designed for the series I and series II etc etc etc......

I need to stress I am no expert.........but there was a big difference with the metal mounting plates, and spacings - can anyone have any pictures of what was designed for what.

Thank in advance

Wayne

[Blknight.aus]

AFAIK they are the same but the mounting plate and drive engagement mechanism differs to suit the different layouts at the front of the chassis.

[dandlandyman]

The drive engagement arrangement of pins-and-holes is reversed in s2s (compared to s1s), though I can't tell you off the top of my head which way they are in each. I'm pretty sure though that the harmonic balancer for a Series one is a different part number if you have a capstan winch. The alloy housing in which the actual bollard turns is different, too, but not very - the Series 1 units have four drain grooves at the base of the bollard, whereas Series 2s on have only 2. I can't remember where I learned that, but it has stuck with me. My 2a has a S1 capstan on it, but it has all the correct 2a drive gear on it.

Dan.
69 2A 88"pet4, 68 2B FC pet6.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hmmmmmmmm

Who knows what's correct and what's not. Some of the earliest LR restos in Oz and the UK have Aeroparts capstans that we know to be the ones that continued to be fitted to S2a and we know that while the capstan was shown on advertising material in the late 1940's the capstan didn't become available till the 1950 model or later. In fact we know that the 1948 and early 1949 model chassis do not fit the mounting plates supplied with the Aeroparts capstan winches and two notches have to be taken out of the mounting plate to fit the winch.

What I believe is: That the capstan winches (and we are talking Aeroparts brand as fitted to the post WWII Jeep) that were originally fitted to the S1 were those stamped AEH . V . **** And are the ones whose design is replicated in the 1954-57 parts manual.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/08/669.jpg

These are the ones with the round front and rear mounting flange and the 4 notches around the bollard to allow the water to run away off the winch.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/512.jpg

The series 2 ones were the ones stamped AEH . D . **** and had a flat at the front and rear, plus only two notches around the bollard at the front and rear.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/08/676.jpg

It is not actually the vibration damper assembly (harmonic balancer to some people) it is the "driving flange for fan pulley" Rover Part 218653 fitted inside the vibration damper that is different, it has two posts that engage the winch driving plate. All 2.283cc engines had the groove to fit the capstan on the driving flange as standard.

On the S1 engines the 3 pins that engage the driving plate are on the winch side, while on the S2 4 cyl engine they are on the engine side. By the time of the LR 6 cyl engine they were fitting hydraulic drum winches or Mayflower (M-A-P) capstans which later became the Fairey brand capstan winch so there is (as far as I know) no Aeroparts dog clutch assembly for the Rover 6cyl although an S1 fit may be made to fit.

There are different propeller shaft lengths for S1 and S2 engines.

Diana

[scarry]

Ellard,PM Barry2,as his S1 has the original capstan winch that was factory fit & may be able to help.

[groucho]

I could be wrong but the ww2 jeep never came off the assembly line to the end of production with a capstan winch as they were finalised too late
at the end of the war.
The jeep winch were "Braden" later taken over by Linkbelt......Mark

[Lotz-A-Landies]

... What I believe is: That the capstan winches (and we are talking Aeroparts brand as fitted to the post WWII Jeep) that were originally fitted to the S1 were those stamped AEH . V . **** And are the ones whose design is replicated in the 1954-57 parts manual.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/08/669.jpg

These are the ones with the round front and rear mounting flange and the 4 notches around the bollard to allow the water to run away off the winch.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/512.jpg

...

Diana
Ellard,PM Barry2,as his S1 has the original capstan winch that was factory fit & may be able to help.
I could be wrong but the ww2 jeep never came off the assembly line to the end of production with a capstan winch as they were finalised too late
at the end of the war.
The jeep winch were "Braden" later taken over by Linkbelt......MarkScarry

The pics of the AEH . V . winch (above) is the capstan winch fitted to Max Hill's ex-QATB 107 wagon which is believed to be the original fitting up to and including the tubes through the chassis. Unless a vehicle is currently still in the hands of the original owner who has perfect memory or there is documentary evidence of configuration at original sale with an unbroken chain of evidence, the best anyone can say is that something like a winch is believed to be the original fitment.

Mark

Isn't that what I said when the words "post WWII Jeep" were used, and it is my understanding that the first ones fitted were the Aeroparts brand? If not, at least Aeroparts is a US Company, today based in New Mexico and their winches were SOME of the first winches fitted to the post WWII Jeeps understanding that other makes were used on the GPA during war-time production and it is likely that these found their way onto non-amphibious models.

Diana

[groucho]

Diana. you are right, it is just that they never mention "aeroparts"

always refered to as "Braden" and later "Linkbelt" Re designed the winch
was problematic in early production. probably the same company.
I will go and sit in the corner...........Mark

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Diana. you are right, it is just that they never mention "aeroparts"

always refered to as "Braden" and later "Linkbelt" Re designed the winch
was problematic in early production. probably the same company.
I will go and sit in the corner...........MarkNo need to sit in the corner, unless of course you are working on a 1.6 litre engine! :D

I have the collars for you next time I pass.

Diana

BTW: I always wondered if the straight cuts in the mounting flange, which make the window above the crank handle dog was actually removed by hand after casting or the LR flange casting was re-designed from the GPA specification to make the window for the Land Rover.

[groucho]

OK sick of sitting in the corner
Braden bought out by linkbelt. Linkbelt bought out by FMC corp

The Braden winch is different to the aeroparts
Braden is a term used in the US as to Worm Gears.



https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/845.jpg

[groucho]

Maybee a supply of parts if they inter change



Your Source for Willys Jeep Capstan Winch Parts! (http://www.capstanwinch.com/#linkbelt)

[scarry]

Scarry

The pics of the AEH . V . winch (above) is the capstan winch fitted to Max Hill's ex-QATB 107 wagon which is believed to be the original fitting up to and including the tubes through the chassis. Unless a vehicle is currently still in the hands of the original owner who has perfect memory or there is documentary evidence of configuration at original sale with an unbroken chain of evidence, the best anyone can say is that something like a winch is believed to be the original fitment.


Diana

The vehicle in question is now owned by the son who's father purchased the vehicle from the factory & has the documentary evidence of the original sale .
The vehicle has only been owned by the two people from the one family,& anything that was done to it has been documented,including servicing,tyres,etc.

From the documentation,i can also tell you that the capstan winch cost 41 pounds,and prep work to receive the winch cost an extra 10 shillings.(i think i got the currency correct)

;)

[bobslandies]

The vehicle in question is now owned by the son who's father purchased the vehicle from the factory & has the documentary evidence of the original sale .
The vehicle has only been owned by the two people from the one family,& anything that was done to it has been documented,including servicing,tyres,etc.

From the documentation,i can also tell you that the capstan winch cost 41 pounds,and prep work to receive the winch cost an extra 10 shillings.(i think i got the currency correct)

Hi Paul,

That's a good pedigree then:) What year is the vehicle and date on the receipt?

Is it possible for you to get some photos?

Best guess at this time is that it would be an AEH.V stamped unit. Sometimes they have the stamping repeated on the main body.

Bob

[101 Ron]

I know a little bit about war time and early jeeps.
Most jeeps from 1942 to 1972 could be interchanged with the same winches and PTO equipment.
The reason is the chassis and , motors and transmission changed very little in that time.
The jeeps like Landrover were developed for the post war farm shortages to one of a small universal farm tractor.
As a option your new post war jeep could be ordered from the factory with a capstan, or drum winch, or three point linkage, and ptos for generators, air compressors .etc.
On my 1960 Australian willys jeep with hurricane motor I have a pto drum winch which came from a 1955 CJ3b and the winch would be a almost straight bolt on fit to a war time jeep.
Interestingly I also have a Toro overdrive fitted and I know fairly overdrives were fitted too.
Except for the casting and gear differences for a different transmission the overdrives are the same as used on rover.
Both landrover and jeep had good interchangeability with in brands, between models with only small mods required.
Just like we transfer a electric winch today from vehicle to vehicle as we up grade today .
Many different brands of types and equiptment were used on both vehicles and as far as I am concerned if it a period fitting to the vehicle it is correct.

[scarry]

Hi Paul,

That's a good pedigree then:) What year is the vehicle and date on the receipt?

Is it possible for you to get some photos?

Best guess at this time is that it would be an AEH.V stamped unit. Sometimes they have the stamping repeated on the main body.

Bob

Registered 17 july 1956,delivered,25 july 1956,price without rego,& extras 615 pounds.

I can try to get photos,but may take a while.

[barry2]

I know I have come in late but,as I am the owner of the 1956 vehicle in this thread (which was handed down to me from my father)I would like to add the following:
The winch fitted has the markings AEH.P.18. stamped 3 times into the alloy housing along with AEH and a 9 in a circle also stamped in.The housing is flat at the front and rear and only has 2 drain holes below the bollard.
In the comprehensive log book for the vehicle I can only see 2 entries for winch repairs so can only assume it is still the original one fitted prior to delivery in July 1956.
Hand written entries in the log book are as follows:11.10.56 /4900 miles /Winch worm and drive seals replaced,
1976 /162000 miles/ Winch stripped,cleaned + seals.
Hope this sheds some more light on the "which winch" issue :)

[antarmike]

Aeroparts rear Capstan winch was available to fit onto rear PTO, where belt pulley is sometimes fitted.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/764.jpg
On my old 80" I also had Belt Pulley for it.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/722.jpg
My landy also had Aeroparts front Capstan winch, and the lower hydraulic power take off was fitted, so I could retain the top PTO to drive the rear winch/ belt pulley. Top photo shows bottom Hydraulic power take off powering a log splitter that I have improvised to push the swivel pins into a Unipower axle ball end.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/765.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/766.jpg
I have dropped the Landy onto a butress tree root. It is between my tyre and the bodywork. I had to use front and rear capstan winches in turn to drag the 80 sideways a foot or two to clear this root, before I could drive out.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/767.jpg
An Iso-Speedic centrifugal engine speed governor finished the spec.

[antarmike]

My rear winch was stamped AEH 189
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/758.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/759.jpg
See here for another example of rear Aeroparts capstan winch
http://www.4wdonline.com/Equip/winches.html

[antarmike]

Covers Series2 - 2 Litre, and series 2A and 3 2.25 litre Petrol and Diesel.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/754.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/755.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/756.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/757.jpg
My front winch was stamped AEH. D. 5117

Above is an Aeroparts manual. I got it from Peak Engineering, Hereford. who bought out Aeroparts. I guess I visited their factory in 1987 shortly after the takeover, but the guy I talked to was ex Aeroparts, and very helpful. They guy I bought my front winch from didn't know its age or what it had previously been fitted to.

[back_in]

1897?
does seem a little early for L/R bits and pieces
cheers
Ian

[groucho]

1897?
does seem a little early for L/R bits and pieces
cheers
Ian


A Pre Pro perhaps? :D:D

[antarmike]

1897?
does seem a little early for L/R bits and pieces
cheers
Ian
Typo 1987, Aeroparts Engineering Company Ltd were taken over by Peak Engineering in 1986, I visted them the follwing year and bought some parts from them.

[antarmike]

Scarry

Isn't that what I said when the words "post WWII Jeep" were used, and it is my understanding that the first ones fitted were the Aeroparts brand? If not, at least Aeroparts is a US Company, today based in New Mexico and their winches were SOME of the first winches fitted to the post WWII Jeeps understanding that other makes were used on the GPA during war-time production and it is likely that these found their way onto non-amphibious models.

Diana

Aeroparts was a British Company, based in Hereford England, they were around during WW2 and lasted until 1986, when Peak Engineering bought them out.

The Former Managing Director has only died recently, the obituary contains a bit about the company history.
Death of respected Herefordshire businesswoman, Mary McHarg (From Hereford Times) (http://www.herefordtimes.com/news/features/4890687.Death_of_respected_Herefordshire_businessw oman/)
See Also
http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/index.php'title=Aeroparts_Engineering_Co&redirect=no
http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/wiki/Aeroparts
http://www.triplexcm.com/

I presume you are thinking of AeroParts, New Mexico, but Aeroparts Engineering Company Ltd, Hereford is not the same company, and to the best of my knowledge there isn't any connection between these two companies.

http://www.aeroparts.aero/index.shtml
AeroParts, New Mexico Website says company is a family owned Corporation with 48+ Years experience, so if their webpage is up to date , the company was formed circa 1962, far to late to be involved with Winch manufacture either for Wartime jeeps or for Series 1 Land-Rovers.

All Aeroparts products fitted to Land-Rovers were built by a totally British company in Hereford, England.

[antarmike]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/729.jpg
Aeroparts Engineering Company Ltd, Hereford, apart from building front and rear Capstan winches , also built the Mechanical, and Hydraulic bottom power take of for the Land-Rover.

This sits under the transfer gearbox, in place of the bottom cover.

I had two of these, both Hydraulic, one on a Forward Control 2B, where it drove the Land-Rover Hydraulic winch (Well although badged Land-Rover it was actually built by Hill Lushington Ltd, Eastbourne), the other on my 80" where I used it to power a log splitter.

Advert is taken from British Leyland Propritry equipment and Special conversion brochure, and company name and phone number are incorrect above, but later in the brochure the correct company name and number are used.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/730.jpg
I think it fair to say that AEH xxxx stamped into the winches stands for Aeroparts Engineering Hereford.

[antarmike]

Later manual covering series2, Series 2A and Series 3, but note bollard cap, not the same as the one in the Aeroparts manual, and selector/ drive shaft and front roller heavily simplified.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/687.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/688.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/689.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/690.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/691.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/692.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/693.jpg
This winch clearly matches the one in my previous post #24, so although the design seems to have changed in some areas, and the part numbers are changed to Unipart numbers, this is still an Aeroparts product.

Just out of interest this series 2, 2A, 3 winch has two drain grooves at the base of the Capstan, but the earlier Aeroparts manual I posted at #19 which is also for the series 2, 2A, 3 but it clearly it shows that there are four drain grooves at the base of the Capstan.

[antarmike]

This was given to me at the Land-Rover series one club, road run and gathering in Wales to mark the 40th Year of the Land-Rover.

It may be of interest.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/685.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/686.jpg

It is intersting that Willys were offering for the CJ2A and CJ3A most of the bolt on goodies associated with Landies, Centre power take of, rear power take off and belt pulley (although the castings for these are clearly a very different shape to the Land_Rover ones), Iso-speedic centrifugal governor, Front capstan winch (although the artist does not realise that the rope if fed under the front roller!), but they had an ace up their sleeve, a hydraulic three point linkage, for a mounted plough. Although several people in England converted Land-Rovers to mount a hydraulic plough, Land-Rover never offered it as a factory option. Like the Landy a rear drawbar (Zed Plate) was offered to tow harrows or a trailer plough.

[bobslandies]

Mike,

Thanks for all the details you have posted up so far.

With reference to your post 25 on the later capstans at what time did Fairey copy or make this later style available? Certainly they were quite common here in Australia and were available for the Range Rover and apparently 90/110s also.

Bob

[antarmike]

Mike,

Thanks for all the details you have posted up so far.

With reference to your post 25 on the later capstans at what time did Fairey copy or make this later style available? Certainly they were quite common here in Australia and were available for the Range Rover and apparently 90/110s also.

Bob

I don't know dates but Fairey was being sold alongside Aeroparts, at a time when Land-Rovers were being sold as "Rover Triumph British Leyland UK Ltd", from whose catalogue this is taken. Illustration shows Plastic Grilled Series 3.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/665.jpg

Note That the Fairey winch depicted still has MAP cast into the Bollard Cap. (Mayflower Automotive Products originally made this Capstan winch).

The Fairey is not a copy of the Aeroparts, it is a different winch that happens to look similar. The two were being sold alongside each other as options for both Land-Rover and Range-Rover.

Quote Wiki"
In the post-war period, from the late 1950s onwards, Fairey acquired Mayflower Automotive Products, including their factory in Tavistock (http://www.aulro.com/wiki/Tavistock,_Devon), Devon (http://www.aulro.com/wiki/Devon) and with it the designs of its products, including winch (http://www.aulro.com/wiki/Winches) and free-wheeling front hubs for Land Rover (http://www.aulro.com/wiki/Land_Rover) vehicles. By the 1970s Fairey was manufacturing a wide range of winches covering mechanical, hydraulic (http://www.aulro.com/wiki/Hydraulics) and electric drive and capstan (http://www.aulro.com/wiki/Capstan)/drum configurations. Fairey winches formed the bulk of the manufacturer-approved winch options for Land Rover throughout the 1970s and early 1980s.

[chazza]

Thanks for posting Mike!

So far I have enjoyed all of your posts on AULRO :D drop in for a little sip if you are ever in W.A.

Cheers Charlie

[back_in]

thank you all for the thread
found it very interesting
the info we have as a group is great
cheers
Ian:angel: