Puma software patch out

[Scallops]

Hello Folks,

I had a few little warranty items fixed last week at the dealers. They also updated the computer software with a patch.

Apparently this remaps the injectors or something - I didn't really follow the explanation. I have noticed that the vehicle is quieter at cold startup and perhaps runs even better - this patch has been out for about a week.

[dullbird]

So is it a new new patch?

or is it the old patch that a few dealers seem to be unaware of the quarantine....

or is it the old patch that is now out of quarantine?

[Captain_Rightfoot]

??? :eek: :D

http://www.townandcountryhumanesociety.org/images/patch.jpg

[Blknight.aus]

the pumas got electronically controlled injectors, simliar in concept of operation to the TD5.

The computer makes the injectors fire at the right time and for the right duration to inject the amount of fuel required to make power.

The puma engine was remapped to suit its intended role in the deefer as opposed to the transit van

During this remapping some mechanical limitations of the engine were uncovered (similar ocourances occoured in the transit van and the td5 as well) and the software that controls everything was updated. due to other changes in production and other requirements (differing fuel qualities and power output regulations as examples) some maps if applied to some engines produced undesirable results.

Those patches were marked as not to be used (quarentined).

the question dullbirds aiming at is is the update you are getting

1. the old quarentined patch that has been fixed
2. the old quarentined patch thats hasnt been fixed and probabley shouldnt be installed
3. some new patch.


having a WAG...

bet they've wound the injection advance back a little at low/cold engine speeds (and assuming the ford injector is capable of multi stage injection) remade the Prime spacing as well as potentially putting in a touch of post completion injection to give the tail end of the combustion process a temp boost helping out with winding the turbo up and heating the engine.

[dullbird]

the pumas got electronically controlled injectors, simliar in concept of operation to the TD5.

The computer makes the injectors fire at the right time and for the right duration to inject the amount of fuel required to make power.

The puma engine was remapped to suit its intended role in the deefer as opposed to the transit van

During this remapping some mechanical limitations of the engine were uncovered (similar ocourances occoured in the transit van and the td5 as well) and the software that controls everything was updated. due to other changes in production and other requirements (differing fuel qualities and power output regulations as examples) some maps if applied to some engines produced undesirable results.

Those patches were marked as not to be used (quarentined).

the question dullbirds aiming at is is the update you are getting

1. the old quarentined patch that has been fixed
2. the old quarentined patch thats hasnt been fixed and probabley shouldnt be installed
3. some new patch.


having a WAG...


bet they've wound the injection advance back a little at low/cold engine speeds (and assuming the ford injector is capable of multi stage injection) remade the Prime spacing as well as potentially putting in a touch of post completion injection to give the tail end of the combustion process a temp boost helping out with winding the turbo up and heating the engine.

I can't really understand this but this is probably what pats suggestion to me was a while back as to what was causing our issue....(I think)

[isuzurover]

I can't really understand this but this is probably what pats suggestion to me was a while back as to what was causing our issue....(I think)

It's just like your computer... The engineers who wrote the software realised they stuffed up, and you have to install a fix to get everything to run properly.

If cars get anymore like computers they will crash repeatedly without warning, and you will need to shut them down, get out, give them a good kicking (booting), then start them back up again...

[dullbird]

It's just like your computer... The engineers who wrote the software realised they stuffed up, and you have to install a fix to get everything to run properly.If cars get anymore like computers they will crash repeatedly without warning, and you will need to shut them down, get out, give them a good kicking (booting), then start them back up again...

I wasn't talking about not understanding that...of course I understand that doesn't everyone that owns a windows computer:p......

actually doesn't anyone that actually owns anything gadgetry understand that.:D

I was talking in regards to daves explanation of what he thinks it is...I'm sure its what pat has been saying all along how ever dave explained a tad different but probably only with the words he has used

[TimNZ]

"Hello, this is Land Rover customer support, have you tried switching it off and back on again?"

I'm taking my 110 into the dealers tomorrow for a couple of issues, I'll ask if they have a new update available. By the way you only get so many updates, from the Land Rover GTR:

A 'flash' EEPROM (electrically erasable programmable read only
memory) allows the ECM (engine control module) to be externally configured, using the Land Rover recommended
diagnostic tool, with market specific or new tune information up to 14 times. If a fifteenth update is required the ECM
(engine control module) must be replaced.

Cheers,

Tim

[dullbird]

"Hello, this is Land Rover customer support, have you tried switching it off and back on again?"

I'm taking my 110 into the dealers tomorrow for a couple of issues, I'll ask if they have a new update available. By the way you only get so many updates, from the Land Rover GTR:


A 'flash' EEPROM (electrically erasable programmable read only
memory) allows the ECM (engine control module) to be externally configured, using the Land Rover recommended
diagnostic tool, with market specific or new tune information up to 14 times. If a fifteenth update is required the ECM
(engine control module) must be replaced.

Cheers,

Tim

Interesting cheers for the info Tim....I wonder whether this effects the people that have the equipment to change there maps on there cars? or because they are undetected (or so I'm lead to believe) that's not the case.....

[TimNZ]

From what I've read the LR kit leaves part of the program in the ECM incase the stuff up the writing process, eventually these left over bits of information fill up the available memory in the ECM, which is why it need to be replaced.

[dullbird]

I'm amazed they can't just clear it like a cache using the computer.....

that could become very costly for landrover if they started stuffing up these they have already stuffed up one

[TimNZ]

I'm amazed they can't just clear it like a cache using the computer.....

that could become very costly for landrover if they started stuffing up these they have already stuffed up one

15 times is alot if you think about it, if LR did it every service, (assuming 12000kms), for the 100,000km warranty period, that'd still only be 8 times.

[dullbird]

thats true I suppose but then lets hope that this patch solves some issues as the last one caused some...

If it takes them a couple of goes to get it right then that 15 could go very quickly....but then again they were very quick at quarantining the last one I think it was 4/5days after its release...so I guess it wouldn't of gotten in to many cars in that time anyway so yeah you have a good point there.

[Scallops]

I'll contact the dealer and find out what I can. All they said was that it was a new software patch, installed into the vehicle's computer, which remapped the injector operation along with a few other tuning mods.

As I say - the vehicle is quieter on cold startup - no diesel chatter, although mine was relatively minor anyway judging from other's comments.

It is a completely new piece of software though.

[Scallops]

Well I contacted the dealer - they couldn't tell me a thing. No code number - nothing. So all I know is what has been stated already.

[Scouse]

the old patch that is now out of quarantine?Correct.

[PAT303]

I can't really understand this but this is probably what pats suggestion to me was a while back as to what was causing our issue....(I think) Yep thats what I suggested.It softens the tune,if that makes any sense until the engine temp is up.I had to do the same thing to my Tdi as it didn't like the cold desert mornings over here.Looking forward to finding out how your ''new'' puma works out Dullbird. Pat

[dullbird]

Yep thats what I suggested.It softens the tune,if that makes any sense until the engine temp is up.I had to do the same thing to my Tdi as it didn't like the cold desert mornings over here.Looking forward to finding out how your ''new'' puma works out Dullbird. Pat

yeah so am I wonder whether that will come with the new out of quarantine patch as standard...:)

[Scouse]

DB, yours is having the download done now.

[TimNZ]

The dealer has just phoned me to tell me that there is a "required update" that they are going to do whilst they have my car.

Tim

[dullbird]

wow hopefully this is it....for us this is the only major thing wrong with the car...if it wasn't for the rattle and the water......which if known about earlier wouldn't probably of been a problem...then I guess are car could of been considered fairly reliable.

perhaps I shouldn't of said that though :lol2:

[TimNZ]

I hope you were hanging on to a large chunk of wood when you said that DB :D

[one_iota]

Mine was serviced 4 weeks ago and with no mention of the patch upgrade so I guess that that was before the release from quarantine?

Anyone know when the date was?

BTW TimNZ love the avatar :p:)

[Scallops]

Mine was serviced 4 weeks ago and with no mention of the patch upgrade so I guess that that was before the release from quarantine?

Anyone know when the date was?

BTW TimNZ love the avatar :p:)

The patch was released 1 week ago (after your service)

[TimNZ]

<snip>

BTW TimNZ love the avatar :p:) <snip>

Thanks Mahn! There's a bit of a theme going there. My avatar is just a pic of the end of my LED torch. I take it your's is HAL, might have to make my next one from a pic of ZEN.

Cheers,

Tim

[one_iota]

Yes Tim ....HAL it is.

A bit of history for those who don't know...

In the Arthur C Clarke novel and Kubrick's film 2001: A Space Odyssey the space ship under HAL's control was called Discovery (and that was my first Land Rover).

I often wondered what was in control....I often thought that I should change my name to Dave as in "Open the pod bay door HAL".... "Sorry Dave I'm afraid I can't do that"

[TimNZ]

Ahhhhh, *click* That certainly makes sense. I certainly don't have any history behind my Avatars, they are usually what ever takes my fancy/looks shiny at the time.

Cheers,

Tim

edit: Guess I could use the monolith to represent my first Series IIa........ :)

[Hymie]

So are they installing Ctrl Alt Delete keys as as well?

[one_iota]

Ahhhhh, *click* That certainly makes sense. I certainly don't have any history behind my Avatars, they are usually what ever takes my fancy/looks shiny at the time.

Cheers,

Tim

edit: Guess I could use the monolith to represent my first Series IIa........ :)


As Hymie say's

Quite prophetic really...The Disco still had a physical cable that connected the accelerator to the throttle...now the Defender is fly by software...thats why my avatar is still HAL...and why I'm still asking HAL for the pod bay door to be opened...:eek:

[Blknight.aus]

Yes Tim ....HAL it is.

A bit of history for those who don't know...

In the Arthur C Clarke novel and Kubrick's film A 2001 Space Odyssey the space ship under HAL's control was called Discovery (and that was my first Land Rover).

I often wondered what was in control....I often thought that I should change my name to Dave as in "Open the pod bay door HAL".... "I'm sorry Dave I can't do that"

I thought I was the only one who did stuff like that...

"I cant let you do that dave" is the .wav that my pc plays when it has a critical error.

and the "I can feel my mind slipping away dave" is the shutdown.

[one_iota]

I thought I was the only one who did stuff like that...

"I cant let you do that dave" is the .wav that my pc plays when it has a critical error.

and the "I can feel my mind slipping away dave" is the shutdown.

Good stuff Dave...:D

So does mine!

[dmdigital]

Laugh all you want about computers in cars. Jaguar and Land Rover were one of the first to develop the ECU applications using Matlab's Realtime application suite on (you guessed it) Windows PC's. So next time you Puma, D3 (D4?), RR etc dies simply close all the windows and open them again before restarting:twisted:


I've got the Puma booked in to LR Darwin (yeah I know...) in a week or so and so will have to check this is OK to be done still.

[dmdigital]

By the way Mahn you do realise that HAL is a right binary shift of the letters IBM

[isuzurover]

Laugh all you want about computers in cars. Jaguar and Land Rover were one of the first to develop the ECU applications using Matlab's Realtime application suite on (you guessed it) Windows PC's. So next time you Puma, D3 (D4?), RR etc dies simply close all the windows and open them again before restarting:twisted:


I've got the Puma booked in to LR Darwin (yeah I know...) in a week or so and so will have to check this is OK to be done still.

I am sure they would have used the Unix version of Matlab :p

Btw - I thought it was Toyota which first used Matlab (Simulink) for ECUs...?

[Rugrat]

Had ours done last Friday - same time as they cleaned EVERY connector under the bonnet (FIIK why).
Anyway - the initial observations are:
a lot quieter starting up, more power at take off - the 'flat spot' has disappeared.
Have noticed that in 4th at 60-65 if I put the foot down - it goes - not like old when it used to hesitate.

Heading to the dirty big rock tonight and meandering back with the hoards of other yotanisabishis' to Flinders Ranges so will have a decent test out there.

[TimNZ]

Well, I got my car back today with the new ECM file installed. Can't say I could tell any difference in driving the car, however the idle does sound different. I guess the real test will be tomorrow morning......

Tim


PS I might start calling the ECM in my car Holly! :D

[dmdigital]

I am sure they would have used the Unix version of Matlab :p

Btw - I thought it was Toyota which first used Matlab (Simulink) for ECUs...?

Not according to the blurb I got from Mathworks a few years ago.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

By the way Mahn you do realise that HAL is a right binary shift of the letters IBM

There are only 10 types of people in this world, those that understand binary, and those that don't :)

[one_iota]

PS I might start calling the ECM in my car Holly! :D

:D

That's better than "smeghead"!

[solmanic]

There are only 10 types of people in this world, those that understand binary, and those that don't :)

My Geek-o-meter just exploded!

[Aussie Mudrat]

:D

That's better than "smeghead"!


You could try calling it Talkie Toaster, the shape fits, it's annoying etc, etc

[one_iota]

:D

Most apt.

(for those not followers of Red Dwarf: Talkie Toaster | Mechanicals | Space Corps Database | Red Dwarf (http://www.reddwarf.co.uk/database/index.cfm'section=mechanicals&entry=talkietoaster) )

[TimNZ]

:D

That's better than "smeghead"!

I reserve that for the dealers :D

[TimNZ]

From the LR Service Action

RE: Engine Lacks Power and MIL Light On

Dear Colleagues,

When driving following a cold engine start where the engine coolant temperature is <5°C and accelerated with a throttle pedal input >35° and a gear change is made at an engine speed of >2000rpm there is a possibility that the High Pressure rail control valve can stick and cause high rail pressure, which trips a diagnostic, relieves the rail pressure causing the customer to see an engine Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) light on with restricted performance and P1169 and/or P0089 Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) stored in the Powertrain Control Module (PCM).

Cheers,

Tim

(thanks Pete for the info)

[dullbird]

the only way we could stop ours doing it was to have the coolant temperature over 35 degrees....even then it wasn't a dead cert...but we got less of a death rattle, still a bad rattle but not where near the severity it usually does that brings on the engine light

and the two times I drove it waiting for the coolant temp tp come up before changing to 3rd (believe it or not was quite a long time on a cold morning) I managed to get the car not to rattle at all!! but the next day Ian got the engine light

[Scallops]

I never had any symptoms at all - but still they added the patch. I like it - it has heaps more mid range grunt, which I guess you'll discover once you run in your new motor.

[draymond]

I agree with you Scallops.

Mine was 'updated' at my 10,000km service.

Noticeably more mid range.

I have an even bigger grin on my face.

[TimNZ]

How's everyones car going after the update?? My 110 is running like a bag of cacti :( It's going into the dealers to get checked out on Friday. Basically when I'm crusing, ie not coasting or foot down, the engine is making a high pitched rattle. Best described as somewhere between a petrol engine detonating noise, normal diesel rattle, and tappets.

It's only doing it when the engine is at normal operating temperature, and if I pull over, switch the car off and start it again it's not so loud, but steadly gets louder the more I drive. The other thing the car is doing is it will start to hunt slightly at idle after a short while, ie stuck in freeway traffic. It's not noticable on the rev counter, but if I plug my Scangauge in I can see it fluctuate from 795 to 805rpm. Before the update it was always rock solid at 800rpm.

Cheers,

Tim

[Scallops]

How's everyones car going after the update?? My 110 is running like a bag of cacti :( It's going into the dealers to get checked out on Friday. Basically when I'm crusing, ie not coasting or foot down, the engine is making a high pitched rattle. Best described as somewhere between a petrol engine detonating noise, normal diesel rattle, and tappets.

It's only doing it when the engine is at normal operating temperature, and if I pull over, switch the car off and start it again it's not so loud, but steadly gets louder the more I drive. The other thing the car is doing is it will start to hunt slightly at idle after a short while, ie stuck in freeway traffic. It's not noticable on the rev counter, but if I plug my Scangauge in I can see it fluctuate from 795 to 805rpm. Before the update it was always rock solid at 800rpm.

Cheers,

Tim

That's not good to hear, Tim :o - mine has been perfect - but it always was, to be truthful. I certainly haven't had any of those symptoms since the patch was installed. I hope it is not related, but more, that you get this sorted out by LR.

[dullbird]

How's everyones car going after the update?? My 110 is running like a bag of cacti :( It's going into the dealers to get checked out on Friday. Basically when I'm crusing, ie not coasting or foot down, the engine is making a high pitched rattle. Best described as somewhere between a petrol engine detonating noise, normal diesel rattle, and tappets.

It's only doing it when the engine is at normal operating temperature, and if I pull over, switch the car off and start it again it's not so loud, but steadly gets louder the more I drive. The other thing the car is doing is it will start to hunt slightly at idle after a short while, ie stuck in freeway traffic.
It's not noticable on the rev counter, but if I plug my Scangauge in I can see it fluctuate from 795 to 805rpm. Before the update it was always rock solid at 800rpm.

Cheers,

Tim

Strangley enough Tim this is what the garage said about our scanguage when it was plugged in.

They reckoned with it plugged in it made the engine hunt and run rough...if they unplugged it it was ok.....

we haven't had any problems like this but will let you know if anything eventuates:(......

[spudfan]

Off chance that rattle could be a loose bolt holding on the heatshild over the turbo. Happened to me and it made noises like you described. The bolt nearest the front of the engine had come loose allowing the heatshield to vibrate against the engine. It is a long shot but check the bolts anyway.

[Scouse]

If the Service Action was carried out before it was quarantined by LR, then you need to have it done again. I don't know exactly what problems/side affects the 1st version caused though but this might be your issue.

[TimNZ]

Hi DB and Scouse, after reading this thread and a few others I decided to run the car without the Scangauge connected, just to see if there was any difference, (I hadn't had any problems with it connected for the last 40,000kms).
Anyway I disconnected the scangauge after I had the software update, the new one, (Q0168 V2). Only since the update was done the car has been running badly, I have since reconnected the Scangauge to keep an eye on all the engine parameters to see if anything is out of the ordinary, and to check out the rpms at idle. Having the scangauge disconnected/connected doesn't seem to make any difference at all. And to top it off today the car is running fine, no doubt it will be ok when I take it in to the dealers tomorrow.
Thanks for the tip on the bolt Spudfan, I know it well :) alas it is not that bolt, and I've had a good hunt around the engine looking for anything else that may have come loose.

Cheers,

Tim

[dullbird]

this may be a long shot but perhaps have a look and inspect all hose's and manifold for escaping gases...

[cess]

HI i have 2007 puma which was at the dealers today for noisy diff and i asked them about the patch and the reply was mine wasnt on the list can anyone help :D

[dullbird]

HI i have 2007 puma which was at the dealers today for noisy diff and i asked them about the patch and the reply was mine wasnt on the list can anyone help :D

Oh dear it just gets worse doesn't it.......if yours wasn't on the list does this mean it doesn't have a chassi number:D

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/59261-defender-service-bulletins-recalls-07-onwards-2.html#post1077109

[Scouse]

HI i have 2007 puma which was at the dealers today for noisy diff and i asked them about the patch and the reply was mine wasnt on the list can anyone help :DDid they actually check on DDW or Viking (ask them) ?
The bulletin is now up to Version 4 so they might have been checking an 'old' copy with a different VIN range.

[dullbird]

Did they actually check on DDW or Viking (ask them) ?
The bulletin is now up to
Version 4 so they might have been checking an 'old' copy with a different VIN range.

version 4....:eek: what version do I have?

[cess]

Oh dear it just gets worse doesn't it.......if yours wasn't on the list does this mean it doesn't have a chassi number:D

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/59261-defender-service-bulletins-recalls-07-onwards-2.html#post1077109
thanks dullbird is the patch worth getting?

[dullbird]

thanks dullbird is the patch worth getting?

It is if you have a new engine attached to it :lol2:












everyone seems to think so:)

[Scouse]

version 4....:eek: what version do I have?The software is the same, they just keep on changing updating the VIN range.

[cess]

Oh dear it just gets worse doesn't it.......if yours wasn't on the list does this mean it doesn't have a chassi number:D

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/59261-defender-service-bulletins-recalls-07-onwards-2.html#post1077109


Did they actually check on DDW or Viking (ask them) ?
The bulletin is now up to Version 4 so they might have been checking an 'old' copy with a different VIN range.
THANKYOU SCOUSE I WILL RING THEM TOMORROW YOU BLOKES HAVE BEEN MOST HELPFULL

[dullbird]

THANKYOU SCOUSE I WILL RING THEM TOMORROW
YOU BLOKES HAVE BEEN MOST HELPFULL

No problem :lol2:

[Scouse]

He said 'blokes' so he wasn't thanking you ;).
:p:p

[dmdigital]

Remind me what colour that Morris Minor is again:p

[dullbird]

Thanks for pointing that out scouse your a tosser good mate :D

[Scouse]

Remind me what colour that Morris Minor is again:pIt's Mrs Scouse's car - I just drive it 'cause it's cheaper to run than a V8 :D.

[Grockle]

Ours goes inThursday for Qv68v2

[Rugrat]

Ok - back from the quick trip to the rock and surrounds.
The patch (whatever version they put on ours) does help. Plenty more grunt - especially noticable towing a fully laden offroad camper around.
6380kms burning 713ltrs at the average price of $1.50

Almost due for its 60k service now - maybe I can get the rear diff sorted this time.

Think fuel economy has altered but thats only gut instinct at this stage.;)

[Blknight.aus]

How's everyones car going after the update?? My 110 is running like a bag of cacti :( It's going into the dealers to get checked out on Friday. Basically when I'm crusing, ie not coasting or foot down, the engine is making a high pitched rattle. Best described as somewhere between a petrol engine detonating noise, normal diesel rattle, and tappets.

It's only doing it when the engine is at normal operating temperature, and if I pull over, switch the car off and start it again it's not so loud, but steadly gets louder the more I drive. The other thing the car is doing is it will start to hunt slightly at idle after a short while, ie stuck in freeway traffic. It's not noticable on the rev counter, but if I plug my Scangauge in I can see it fluctuate from 795 to 805rpm. Before the update it was always rock solid at 800rpm.

Cheers,

Tim

Just to hazard a guess (if its not already fixed) this may not be a fault of the ECU but your fuel pressure sensor may be reading low and the system is upping the pressure before the fuel injector.... be interesting to see what causing this