Defender Cab Chassis, spare wheel storage?

[austastar]

Hi,
from what I've seen so far, the Defender ute doesn't seem to have a standard mounting point for the spare wheel, (like under the tray on a winding chain).

Where is everybody putting theirs?

As I want to put a slide-on camper on the tray, I am considering getting the tray mounted back from the cab by about 250mm, and putting some water tanks on the chassis rails, and 2 spare wheels on the front of the tray headboard above the tanks.

Any thoughts?

Also, (while I'm picking brains) any thoughts on running an over the cab roof rack forward from the head board?

Problems?
Clearance for body flex ?
Too much overhead?

cheers

[weeds]

if its a 300tdi how bout on the bonnet, it works out OK for me

[austastar]

Does the bonnet have any re enforcing as bog standard, or is it an option to be fitted pre or post purchase?

cheers

[vnx205]

I have a Defender 110 with a Trayon camper on the tray.

Even though the vehicle is a single cab, I have the dual cab camper, because that was what was available second hand at the time.

The dual cab is probably better for me because I can keep the spare (or two) against the headboard and the back of the camper still doesn't reach the back of the tray.

As you can see from the photo, the camper extends over the headboard, which I had to chop the top off, but not over the cab. I put it there to leave room for the spare.

The double bed in the camper is quite long and wide, so I don't see why you would need to have a bigger extension over the cab.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[vnx205]

While carefully re-reading your post (as I sometimes do after I have replied), I notice you are considering mounting the whole tray back a bit so that the spare is in front of the headboard.

As the camper does not need to be as long as the tray, what would you gain by doing that compared to my setup with the tyre behind the headboard?

[austastar]

Hi vnx205,
looks like a nice set-up you have there, the Trayon was high on our list for quite a while.
This (http://www.myswag.org/gallery/d/8342-1/For-Web.jpg) is some thing I mocked up when trying to get my head around sizes etc.
As you can see the Innovan does not go over the cab.
What I was trying to get by sliding the whole tray back, was a tall space from the chassis rails up to the height of the cab in which to lay a couple of water tanks (Camec 006069, 760x355x230mm) on the rails.
I think these should just about be the same height as the tray, and then I can put 2 spare wheels bolted back to the head board.

I hadn't thought about putting the wheels between the camper and head board because:


I couldn't figure how to get access to the wheel nuts.
I thought the headboard needed to be adjacent to the front of the camper.
It was the only way I could imagine the tanks fitting where I wanted them.
I was thinking of putting a 'step' in the head board to match the front profile of the Innovan, and brace it forward and up to go over the cab roof as a roof rack for extra storage.

I'm still at the 'ideas' stage at the moment, hope to spend some money next year when I retire, but so far we haven't found any thing that we think will do what we want better than a Defender 130 tray with a slide-on.

Just trying to get my head around what I can actually fit on to it.

cheers

[austastar]

Hi,
it was this photo
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/837.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/app/showphoto.php/photo/15602)
that gave me the idea of getting to use the extra space between the tray and back of the cab.

I have no idea where long range tanks are fitted on this model, I would be grateful if some one could post a comment on that.

Pesky old fart, ain't I.

cheers

[slt]

Hi,
it was this photo
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/837.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/app/showphoto.php/photo/15602)
that gave me the idea of getting to use the extra space between the tray and back of the cab.

I have no idea where long range tanks are fitted on this model, I would be grateful if some one could post a comment on that.

Pesky old fart, ain't I.

cheers

That's what mine looked like when they delivered it, albeit a 130DC. If you want long range fuel you can pretty much forget that position for the spare, unless your tray is extra high.

[vnx205]

I think you could still fit a fair sized watertank on the chassis rails under the tray with the tray in the normal position.

The camper in your picture is about 600mm longer than the Trayon. That is longer than the tray on a 110. I wonder where the C of G would be. I assume your picture is of a 130. It might be a bit tail heavy on a 110.

My spare is held up against the headboard with just one bolt. As it needs a fair bit of clearance to get past the deep angle section of the headboard, it is easy enough to get at the nut.

[slt]

FWIW, having briefly considered the Innovan (before ending up with a Trayon) I can only say this is a fairly massive camper. As vnx205 said, it would be ok on a 130 single-cab, but not the 110. You will also need to watch your weight. I couldn't get a straight answer out of him re empty weight, other than it's supposedly less than 500kg, but I doubt it. My trayon is 400kg empty, and this looks and feels a fair bit heavier.

[vnx205]

I suspect that Innovan would need to be very empty to get under 500kg.

The dual cab Trayon is 370kg.

[austastar]

Hi,
the weight is a factor I am considering.
When compared with the Patrol that was used for the testing, the Defender 130 has much more spare capacity.
The Patrol seems close to its over hang limit of 60% wheelbase behind the rear axle.
The testing that was done (Simpson and Cape York) was with in the capabilities of the Patrol (Coils replaced with Airbags).
The payload of the Defender is 1,777kg vs 1153 for the Patrol Dx Coil, (both without tray).
The Defender 130 has some 400mm spare, which is why I considered moving the tray 250mm backwards for the two spare wheels and 114L of water. That should give me room for the tanks and space to mount the wheels I think.
I don't have the measurements from the rails to the deck of the tray as yet.

Nx205, any chance of a closeup photo of the turn-buckles that hold your Trayon in place? Have yet to check that out on the Innovan. I know they use a different leg to cab attachment to Happyjack or Hijack systems.
If you could measure


Top of chassis rail to tray deck
Max diameter of standard tyre

it would be appreciated.

cheers

[slt]

How much water do you intend to carry? One of the Innovan's strong points is its huge storage compartment up-front. You can easily put 200l worth of water tanks in there without even noticing (space wise, again weight will be a factor), so wouldn't have thought you'd want to carry even more outside of the camper.

And you can get a roof rack for the tyres. That's where mine are.

I've seen the Innovan up-close, and looked certainly well designed and built.

[vnx205]

Hi,

Nx205, any chance of a closeup photo of the turn-buckles that hold your Trayon in place? Have yet to check that out on the Innovan. I know they use a different leg to cab attachment to Happyjack or Hijack systems.
If you could measure


Top of chassis rail to tray deck
Max diameter of standard tyre

it would be appreciated.

cheers
I can do that, but you will have to wait till tomorrow. i want to watch the tribute to Skippy. :)

[slt]

This is what the Trayon attachment buckle looks like:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/834.jpg

The Michelin XLZ 7.50R16s that come standard with the new 130s are approx 31.5" in diameter, or just a touch over 80cm.

[austastar]

Hi slt,
yep, I've climbed in to the 'warehouse' at the front of the Innovan, it is impressive the space that can be created without all the framing and bracing needed with 'traditional' builds.
The tanks I am looking are Camec 006096 (http://caravanspareparts.com.au/campervan-55ltr-750mm-355mm-230mm-p-1341.html), at 355mm high I doubt they will go under a tray, at 760 long two should fit across the back, and at 230mm there should be enough space between the head board and the cab for the width of tyres.
Where the top of the spare tyres, and over hang of the Innovan will meet, I have no idea yet. If I can get the measurement of a wheel diameter and the distance from chassis rail to tray deck top surface, I will know whether to persevere or abandon the idea.

I want to get a substantial water supply on the truck independent of what is being carried on the back. This will give me the option of going 'light weight' with a tent for the Simpson and Canning and not having to leave all creature comforts in the Innovan if we park it some where while we explore the more serious tracks.

cheers

[austastar]

This is what the Trayon attachment buckle looks like:

Thanks for the photo, it looks like it is very substantial.
So that will fit any standard tray? or do they adapt them to what ever tray you have on the ute?



The Michelin XLZ 7.50R16s that come standard with the new 130s are approx 31.5" in diameter, or just a touch over 80cm.

Thanks for that, it looks like the Innovan is 960 from the deck to under the small overhang, so it is still looking good.

cheers

[slt]

So that will fit any standard tray? or do they adapt them to what ever tray you have on the ute?

That's what they use for trays with combing rails. Not sure what they do for tray's without. vnx205's looks like it's attached to the tray directly, so he might be able to give you a better description on that one.

[vnx205]

The attachment in Sit's photo is the standard Trayon fitting.

The original owner of mine made a couple of fairly clever modifications.

One of them was some legs and attachments that are much stronger and more stable than the original. That is not to say there is anything inadequate about the original ones. It's just that his wife wanted it to be more stable when on its legs off the camper.

He had it on a dual cab Hilux and when I drove up to Qld to pick up the camper, I just changed the length of the clamps to suit my tray by bending the hook at the bottom of the threaded rod in a different place.

When I got home, I made new ones to hook directly onto the lip of the tray instead of to the rope rail. That made them a lot shorter.

These cropped images from a couple of photos might give you an idea of what they look like. I can take some detailed shots tomorrow if these don't show what you need to see. I may modify them one day. I won't bore you with the details of my idea unless you really want to know.

If you get a new Trayon, they make the clamps to suit your vehicle.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/7/16/2005444/Clamps%20Trayon.JPG

http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/7/16/2005444/Legs%20Trayon.JPG

[austastar]

I can take some detailed shots tomorrow if these don't show what you need to see.

Thanks for the photos, that's exactly what I wanted to see - and know that it can be adapted in various ways to suit individual trays/rails etc.

I can identify with the previous owner's concerns about spindly legs when free standing, they look precarious in the photos - haven't seen one in the flesh yet.
It occurred to me that a bit of diagonal bracing with stainless steel wire and turnbuckles could steady it up considerably.

Hey you won't bore me with details of your planned mods, please feel free to email me if you don't want to put it up on the forum, I love looking at peoples' ideas and some of the clever things they come up with.
(drleesatgmaildotcom)

cheers

[juddy]

These are possible ideas??

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/822.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/823.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/824.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/825.jpg

[numpty]

Do you owners of single cabs find the lack of cabin space a problem. I'm a fan of the Trayon and am contemplating this upon retirement, but cant make up my mind whether to go 110, or 130 single or double.

[austastar]

Hi,
space is limited in our single cab truck (Toyota Dyna), but at least there is a little extra perceived 'space' with the opening through into the main camper body.

The Toyota Landcruiser utes in the Tas Fire Service feel similarly cramped, (especially with three large lads in the cab) but it is not a show stopper.

One ute I was looking at was the Mazda bravo extra cab, a half door, rear hinged latched with the normal door for enormous entry space. I really liked the feel of the space, and not being so close to the rear wall, but capacity and capability didn't meet what I was looking for. The cab and a half is a great idea, and you can carry adults in the back seat for short journeys.
If Landrover made a cab and a half I would readily sacrifice some tray space for the extra cab room, but for me the dual cab is just too much cabin, not enough tray.
cheers

[numpty]

Land Rover used to do a 130 Big Cab, which would fit the bill quite nicely.

[austastar]

Land Rover used to do a 130 Big Cab, which would fit the bill quite nicely.

More info ???

Very interested

cheers

[one_iota]

More info ???

Very interested

cheers


A couple of links to discussions here on the subject of King Cabs or Extracabs:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/36589-defender-130-kingcab.html

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/74084-new-puma-130-king-cab.html


As far as I know so far there are no plans for this variant of the new 130 to be released here.

[austastar]

As far as I know so far there are no plans for this variant of the new 130 to be released here.

Pity about that.

Thanks for the info though.

cheers

[roverrescue]

Just to add some info,
Although a DC my tray appears the same design as VNX250. Same edges, deck, rope rails etc etc. Under my 130Dc tray I have fitted a 75L diesel tank(sits above the main), and then under the passenger sill i built up a 45L water tank, whilst under the drivers sill is a 22L air tank.

Gives long range fuel (two seperate supplies), tanked water and onboard air.

Although it makes sense to use CAMEC tanks, by the time you fabricate sturdy brackets to hold them it may be cheaper to get an Alloy worker to build you a water tank. I would think under a single cab tray you would easily be able to fit 75L of diesel and 75L of water (plumbing may be an issue but everything is doable)

Rather than moving the tray back on the chassis, it would probably be easier to build a tyre width cage from the back of the headboard, have the side door hinged at the bottom, roll the tyres in then just use ratchet straps to stop up and down bounce. Would put the camper in the same position but wont upset the chassis mounts.

BTW VNX250, how many mounts does your SC tray tie into the chassis? any chance for a piccy of the front mounts?

Steve

[vnx205]

Hi,
If you could measure


Top of chassis rail to tray deck
Max diameter of standard tyre

it would be appreciated.

cheers
I have 235/85/16 Maxxis AT tyres. They seem to be very close to 800mm diameter.
This photo might give you the dimensions you want. The ribs under the tray are 35mm.
With the camper on, I have been able to rub the tyres on the underside of those ribs if I tilt the axle with one rear wheel up and one down. So it needs the tray a little bit higher to clear that size tyre, which i believe is the same diameter as a 750x16.
My solution was to remove the ribs from the bottom of the tray where the tyre used to rub.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/7/16/2005444/Chassis%20to%20tray.jpg


It might also answer the question below.




BTW VNX250, how many mounts does your SC tray tie into the chassis? any chance for a piccy of the front mounts?

Steve

[austastar]

Thanks very much for that.
There is more stuff under there than I realised, but with a bit of cunning we can work some thing out.
I think now the tray will be staying where it should be and I will ponder the tank location/shape some more.
cheers

[roverrescue]

Thanks VNX,

out of interest, does your tray have a middle cross rail of that 80mm Al section as seen in your photo? Or is simply the front one pictures and the rear one along the rear cross member.

The structure beneath is the same as my DC tray however the cross rail is mounted to the brackets at left of your picture, obviously the towers are covered by the rear cab.
the reason I ask is I have welded the front mounts once and they are cracking again, 44s of fuel and cape roads dont mix!!!! I was thinking of adding a third set of chassis mounts next time the tray is off!.

By the looks of your photos there is heaps of room for tankage. In regards to rubbing on full compression, I raised the tray maybe 20mm to fit the tank and lined the underside of the tray with rubber above the rear tyres. My 75L tank sits between the lengthwise 100mm C sections up nearly to the deck height and is mounted on two steel rails that tie the existing front and back mounts. I really should take a photo or two!


Steve

[vnx205]

Thanks for the photos, that's exactly what I wanted to see - and know that it can be adapted in various ways to suit individual trays/rails etc.

I can identify with the previous owner's concerns about spindly legs when free standing, they look precarious in the photos - haven't seen one in the flesh yet.
It occurred to me that a bit of diagonal bracing with stainless steel wire and turnbuckles could steady it up considerably.

Hey you won't bore me with details of your planned mods, please feel free to email me if you don't want to put it up on the forum, I love looking at peoples' ideas and some of the clever things they come up with.
(drleesatgmaildotcom)

cheers
Just in case there is someone else who is a bit interested, but is too shy to ask :p, I'll reply here rather than a PM.
The Trayon does come with stainless steel guys which can be attached to pegs to stabilise it when it is removed from the vehicle.

If you have a look at this photo, which is roughly the view in the rear vision mirror, you might be able to see how I plan (one day) to modify the leg brackets.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/7/16/2005444/Leg.jpg

As you can see the mounting bolts are separated a lot more than on the original. That has got to be stronger. It is also made from quite sturdy tubing.

The legs need to sit out that far from the camper, otherwise it would be very difficult to back under the camper between the legs.

My only complaint really is that the extensions that the legs slide into block my view a bit in the mirror and make the vehicle wider than it needs to be. At one stage I was worried that the width would be an issue on the ferry over to Tasmania, until I found out that the vehicle is a campervan when it has the Trayon on the back and campervans are allowed to be much wider than normal vehicles.

My idea was to remove the little short bits of tubing that the legs fit inside and cut an opening about 30 to 50mm tall in the outer face of the long piece of tubing about 1/4 or 1/3 of the way from the top. I would then weld two L shaped pieces onto the legs. The top one would slip through the hole and the bottom one would fit in the bottom of the tube.

This drawing might help. The real thing would have closer tolerances than my drawing.:p What do you think? Better than the current design and a lot steadier and sturdier than the original?

http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/7/16/2005444/Bracket.gif

[vnx205]

Thanks VNX,

out of interest, does your tray have a middle cross rail of that 80mm Al section as seen in your photo? Or is simply the front one pictures and the rear one along the rear cross member.

The structure beneath is the same as my DC tray however the cross rail is mounted to the brackets at left of your picture, obviously the towers are covered by the rear cab.
the reason I ask is I have welded the front mounts once and they are cracking again, 44s of fuel and cape roads dont mix!!!! I was thinking of adding a third set of chassis mounts next time the tray is off!.

By the looks of your photos there is heaps of room for tankage. In regards to rubbing on full compression, I raised the tray maybe 20mm to fit the tank and lined the underside of the tray with rubber above the rear tyres. My 75L tank sits between the lengthwise 100mm C sections up nearly to the deck height and is mounted on two steel rails that tie the existing front and back mounts. I really should take a photo or two!


Steve
I have just the one cross rail at the front and one at the rear.

I did have little problem with one front mount a while back and the other side one is looking as if it may need some attention soon.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/73099-tray-mounts-defender.html#post913816

Maybe I should look at fitting an extra cross rail.


(http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/73099-tray-mounts-defender.html#post913816)

[The ho har's]

Do you owners of single cabs find the lack of cabin space a problem. I'm a fan of the Trayon and am contemplating this upon retirement, but cant make up my mind whether to go 110, or 130 single or double.



you are a fare bit shorter than ho har but and that is why we got the DC over the single because of his height and you have seen we do not lack space in our camper and the trayon has a DC model:D

get the bigger cab


Mrs ho har:angel:

[The ho har's]

bout time I posted more photos


the 2 spares are under the tray with all sorts of other stuff like legs, shovel etc the tool boxes on the sides carry a heap of gear
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/271.jpg

with the camper on

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/811.jpg

hope this gives you ideas


Mrs ho har:angel:

[austastar]

Hi vnx205 (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/vnx205.html),
I quickly read your post about 2 hours ago, and now the photo and drawing are not visible - am I going (more) nuts.
Any how if I remember correctly they were bolted on via a spacing tube and were sticking out a long way and you had designed a cut out bit that the leg could slide into.
Was this so you could take the legs off whilst the camper is on the tray?

[vnx205]

Hi vnx205 (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/vnx205.html),
I quickly read your post about 2 hours ago, and now the photo and drawing are not visible - am I going (more) nuts.
Any how if I remember correctly they were bolted on via a spacing tube and were sticking out a long way and you had designed a cut out bit that the leg could slide into.
Was this so you could take the legs off whilst the camper is on the tray?

I can still see my photos and drawing. Are you looking at the right post?

I can take the legs of now when the camper is on the tray. It would be a bit of a worry if I couldn't.:p Imagine driving along with the legs hanging down. :)

The planned modification is just to reduce the overall width of the camper and to get rid of the little bits that seem to stick out just where I want to see something in my rear vision mirror.

[austastar]

Hi,
don't know why I can't see your illustrations now from post 18th September 2009, 04:15 PM.

But any way, some thoughts.

Looking at some of the American sites, Happijac etc, some of them have swing away brackets.

[/URL][URL="http://www.aulro.com/app/showphoto.php/photo/15606"]https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/807.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/app/showphoto.php/photo/15606)

The quality of the photo is not great, and I'm hanged if I can really figure out how they mount these things.

The other thing that surprised me was the (seemingly) light weight material used in the manufacture. Again the photos are not brilliant

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/808.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/app/showphoto.php/photo/15605)
so it is a bit hard to judge.

Any how you may find it possible to adapt some thing to that idea.

I can see some sort of a notch on the hinge, not sure what it is for, but I would hope that it is some sort of lock to stop it swinging when under the load of the camper, other wise it would be very unstable.

I did like the idea with the above jacks, where you can lift the camper, and lower it to some sort of support, and then lift and lower for a second bite.

I'm not sure that would suit the Innovan, I think it has the steps as an integral part of the camper and are not removable.

cheers

[austastar]

Can now see photos Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

[austastar]

if its a 300tdi how bout on the bonnet, it works out OK for me

Looking at a new defender today, I asked the salesman about a bonnet mounting.
"No worries" he said, "it just bolts on."

Now surely that can't be right, the lid is pretty heavy and steel by the feel of it, but no other reinforcing?
Just drill a couple of holes?
I know Monty Python and Landrover are both English, but really?

cheers

[slt]

I have yet to see a Puma with a wheel on the bonnet. Given the extra hump I'd say it would obstruct the vision of anyone less than 6' even wth the standard Michelin 7.50 width, so probably illegal. But I stand corrected.

[numpty]

you are a fare bit shorter than ho har but and that is why we got the DC over the single because of his height and you have seen we do not lack space in our camper and the trayon has a DC model:D

get the bigger cabMrs ho har:angel:

Yes, you're right, I'm short (normal actually) :angel:. Driving position room is one thing (not a problem for me) but the lack of space in the cab for storing stuff is an issue.