Td5 vs PUMA - Thoughts?

[series3]

Hi all. I am currently driving a 10 year old TD5 Defender with 295K. Still going like a german band. I am thinking of updating to a new one. Does anyone have a view if this is a good idea? What have peoples experiences been with the new PUMA?

[disco2hse]

The Puma is a well proven design. If you are going to sell then sell while your current vehicle is going well, it'll be worth a whole lot more and you haven't got the point of spending big money to keep it going well yet.

Alan

[JDNSW]

Both engines appear to have a generally good reputation. The Puma has a larger installed base overall and hence is likely to give less problems with price and availability of parts in the future. The only advantage of the TD5 from the engine point of view as far as I can see is that it seems to fit a bit more comfortably - the Puma needed to be lowered slightly to fit, and I have seen comments about accessibility of some components, such as the alternator.

I would be inclined more to think about whether you think getting rid of the vents is a good or bad idea, and whether you see the new dash as an improvement. Apparently the heating/cooling IS a big improvement. These are bigger differences than the actual engine.

John

[spudboy]

If you've got the cash (or can get your company to buy it for you :D), the Puma is great upgrade. More powerful engine, 6 speeds, Seriously LOW low 1st gear, quiet when cruising, decent sized tacho, etc etc.

I've still got my TD5 (as well as the Puma) and I like driving both, but the new model is better at everything except ventilation. Yeah - the heating is 40% better. The cooling is 50% better. BUT I miss those opening vents when all you want is a cool breeze on a 25 degree day.

I wouldn't go into debt to get one, but that's just me. I'd be sticking with the TD5 even if it needs a bit done to it, to avoid borrowing money.

[stig0000]

Hi all. I am currently driving a 10 year old TD5 Defender with 295K. Still going like a german band. I am thinking of updating to a new one. Does anyone have a view if this is a good idea? What have peoples experiences been with the new PUMA?

i own a td5 and work all the time one puma's.
and i would never buy a puma,, y

td5 easyer to work on out in the bush,
still has computers but the puma has alot more electricals,
seems to be made to a very small buget,
clutch is from a ford KA it seems like,
theres a few other things and thats my resion for never buying a puma,

[one_iota]

Still going like a german band.


Lederhosen, steins und "um pa pa".



If it ain't broke then no need to fix it.

But if you want me to swap my Puma for your Td5 then no deal. :D

[BilboBoggles]

I've got a TD5 and a PUMA, I like both but in different ways... But - I'm keeping the TD5 for the terms of it's natural life - for many reasons.

1- A robust Diesel injection system on the TD5 that will survive an odd batch of stale or slightly wet diesel. Or indeed will run on Kero!

2 - rust proofing on the TD5, none on the PUMA, in fact they come rusty from the factory.

3 - At least the assembly line used a couple of tubes of sikaflex on the TD5, which helps reduce some of the dust inside

4 - An Engine bay in the TD5 that looks like it was designed rather than jammed together. You can at least remove the dipstick on a TD5 without flicking oil all over the joint.

5 - I'd keep the TD5 just because of the ease of changing the air filter. It's in a bastard place on the PUMA.

6 - The TD5 sounds cool. A PUMA does not.

The Puma is a pleasure to drive, no doubt about it. But I have some serious doubts about it's longevity in Australian conditions.

I guess it depends what you want from a vehicle - if you want something to keep for a few years till the warranty runs out, then the PUMA is an awesome drive.

[spudfan]

Slightly off point here,but I will throw it in. I have a 17 year old 200tdi 110 and a Puma. The reason I still kept the Tdi when the Puma came is because it is worth a lot more to me than I would have got for it either as a sale or a trade in. Besides it is part of the family now. The Puma is a complely different animal(no pun intended) to the tdi but I love them both. The Puma is a lot more refined yet still a very capable vehicle. Had you posed this question a number of years ago when the 300 tdi was replaced by the Td5 the same arguments for and against the Td5 that are being levelled against the Puma would have arisen. Things like electronics, not as easily repairable in the bush etc. The Td5 has against all predictions and doubters (me included) stood the test of time and I have no doubt that the Puma will do the same. Any snags should be sorted within your 3 year warranty. It is rumoured that the military are looking seriously at the Puma so this will definately help to get the snags sorted. If you can afford to keep the Td5 and get a Puma do so. My 200 tdi sees very little usage but I would not sell it. Should you sell the Td5 and buy a Puma you will be always comparing this and that. You will have to accept the new vehicle for what it is.
Think of it this way. In your mind your ex-girlfriend always looks the same and never ages. You remember her as she was. Your wife on the other hand gets older and greyer. Such is life. If you go for the Puma it will take you a while to settle into it but it is a very fine machine.

[solmanic]

I had two Td5 Defenders before the Puma and my reasons for upgrading were simple...
In stock format, the Puma can match and possibly even better a Td5 off-road, but is without a doubt a million times more comfortable to drive on-road. And even the most hard-core off-roader still has to get to and from the playground on a highway.

[PAT303]

One thing in your favour is the Td5 will bring good money if you sell it,defenders always hold thier value and for reliability the puma has proven itself,if white van man can't break it no one will. Pat

[5teve]

2 - rust proofing on the TD5, none on the PUMA, in fact they come rusty from the factory.

4 - An Engine bay in the TD5 that looks like it was designed rather than jammed together. You can at least remove the dipstick on a TD5 without flicking oil all over the joint.

Surely thats your rust proofing :p

Steve

[eksjay]

Up close, there is much to be admired in the Puma.

However, in the bush, comfort, presence and refinement amount to nothing, if you get stranded on account of a small part failure.

With all of the small component failures that I have read in this forum, in addition to general quality issues that would not be tolerated in other makes and models there is no compelling reason to upgrade - particularly if your existing drive is running as well as you say. From the standpoint of going bush, I just don't trust a Puma - even though on paper, it is an improvement over the Td5.

I would perhaps wait until there are further refinements to the Puma in successive model years, particularly in the engine bay department [not necessarily the engine itself, but everything around it].

[Scallops]

I hear what people are saying here. But I have driven a Puma all over Australia. I also use it off road - and don't spare the duco, if you know what I mean.

I can only go by how my vehicle has been, and I trust it in the bush. At least as much as I would trust a slightly older TD5 Fender! We are going to find out for sure over the coming years anyway - and another outback trip next winter will be another test.

These forums will attract more negative issues that threads saying, I drove my xyz to abc and nothing went wrong! I know plenty of guys with older Fenders in our club who have little issues all the time. As do the Pumas, but I really don't think that on the whole the Puma can be regarded as less reliable than the previous model. And it does kill the TD5 in comfort and ease of use.

But both are great trucks. If I had a newish TD5 - I wouldn't buy a Puma either.

[muddymech]

i think we have had more than our fair share of issues, mostly sorted now, but at the end of the day i have no worries about taking the puma anywere, ironically the one area that has caused us no problems has been the electrics, as for comfort fuel economy speed etc its all good and an improvment over previous models.
ian

[one_iota]

Another significant point to be made is that the Puma has only been on the road for 2 years. There is a growing body of knowledge based on real world experience and two of those are expressed immediately above. As we get to know the beast better the more confidence there will be.

I'm sure if this discussion was being had in 2002 it would be about whether to keep the 300Tdi or buy a new Td5 with all its electrics, its oil in the harness and oil pump bolt issues.

[solmanic]

For what it's worth, here is my summary list of Defender issues that exist based on people's postings:

Firstly, issues which are common to Defenders of just about any age:
- Paint quality
- Panel fit & finish
- Water leaks
- Interior trim quality & fit
- Clutch master cylinder crapping itself at regular intervals
- TC & ABS sensor failures
I'm sure there are others, but my point is that several of these (quality, fit & finish issues) are raised more so by new vehicle owners but are in no way unique to the Puma Defender. The level of irritation is simply a result of the amount of $$$ spent on a new vehicle. Others like the clutch master cylinder issue have been around for ages and I expect in a couple of years we will see all the Puma Defenders having their master cylinders replaced bi-annually.

Secondly we have issues which have been raised but are all fixable under warranty and have now had design changes:
- Vacuum pump (now fixed on 09MY onwards we presume)
- Sump pan (now fixed on 08MY onwards)
- Water in fuel, breather location (LR fix not necessarily the best - better fixes effected by owners themselves)
- A Frame chassis brackets (fixed from 08MY onwards)
- Front brake rattle - anti-rattle kit available for installation
- Fuel pressure relief valve - available warranty fix.
- Clutch noise & poor selection - upgraded clutch return springs on 08MY vehicle onwards.
- Engine start-up knocking - total engine replacement under warranty, revised oil jet design on new models.
- Engine cold post start-up rattle - new ECU map out, presumably all new vehicles have this.
- Prop shaft vibrations - 08MY onwards have re-designed prop-shaft.

Then we have issues which have been reported that have warranty repairs available, but no standard upgrade unless the problem occurs:
- Various engine hoses, lines & components rubbing/wearing - Several people have reported things rubbing and almost wearing through following driving on rough roads. Usually fixed by strategic cable ties but not identified as problems by LR with standard rectification procedures.
- Blown differentials - Several reports of these but possibly the result of a bad batch of diffs supplied to LR. Haven't been many reports in Oz though.
- Blown transfer cases - see above.
- Busted gearboxes - see above.
- Loose exhaust heat shroud - tighten bolts.
- A/C thermal cutout switch failure - Probably a bad batch of switches as mine took two goes to fix.
- Loose bolts on prop-shaft - tighten bolts, should be picked up during a service, probably falls under quality issues.
- Dodgy EGR valve - fix available but not sure if design has changed.

I'm sure there are others I have missed, but these are the main ones. Also there are many other one-off issues that probably relate to general quality rather than design problems (eg. failing indicator flasher relay). The most serious issues above such as blown diffs & gearboxes could be partially the result of owner use (big tyres + suspension mods + towing) coupled with a bad batch of components supplied to Land Rover. I get the feeling that there have been far less of these type of problems here in Australia compared to reports in the UK (is export quality usually better than domestic?).

But as has already been pointed out, there are bound to be more vocal complaints about any problems with a new $50K+ vehicle and the internet just makes it easier to publish these. Also, a lot of peoples' issues have been more related to their dealer experience. In my case, half of all problems have been caused during visits to the service centre by just clumsiness (ie. damaging things whilst putting them back incorrectly or not at all).

[dullbird]

Ok can I ask this question......How many people have been stranded in the bush in a puma so far?

We haven't....

[spudboy]

... Others like the headlight switch issue have been around for ages and I expect in a couple of years we will see all the Puma Defenders losing their main beam but that's what the wiring upgrade is for...


I believe the Puma's have a relay for their headlights!!! How's that for advanced design? No more burnt out headlight stalk switches :D

[Scallops]

I believe the Puma's have a relay for their headlights!!! How's that for advanced design? No more burnt out headlight stalk switches :D

That is my understanding too - we don't need the upgraded relay. ;)

[one_iota]

The headlights are relayed. I upgraded mine with Traxides Kit anyway because I was installing the spots. The improvement is noticeable.

Getting back to reliability/bomb proofness: no vehicle is without vulnerabilities. Check out Frenchies post with regards to his Td5 Defender:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/88716-tick-tick-tick.html

[eksjay]

Ok can I ask this question......How many people have been stranded in the bush in a puma so far?

We haven't....

I remember reading some reports somewhere in here that some trips have resulted in limp mode kicking in - but that was on the blacktop.

Also, one of the major 4x4 mags did a recent trip in a Puma up to the Kimberley earlier in the year/last year??? There was a major failure which they reported. I think it was a hose rubbing issue but it managed to stop the car in its tracks.

Agreed, failures can and do happen in the bush to the best of cars.

[solmanic]

I believe the Puma's have a relay for their headlights!!! How's that for advanced design? No more burnt out headlight stalk switches :D

Excellent. I feel even happier with my Puma now.

I'll edit my earlier post so no-one gets the wrong info...

[dullbird]

I remember reading some reports somewhere in here that some trips have resulted in limp mode kicking in - but that was on the blacktop.

Also, one of the major 4x4 mags did a recent trip in a Puma up to the Kimberley earlier in the year/last year??? There was a major failure which they reported. I think it was a hose rubbing issue but it managed to stop the car in its tracks.

Agreed, failures can and do happen in the bush to the best of cars.

Thats right mate those reports came from me the car was still drivable (the hole point of limp mode)...but the car also did 1200k up to the top and down through the centre without missing a heart beat on some of the roughest roads I have had the displeasure of driving.


As for the failure of that rubbing hose I'm not sure which one it was...but it sounds to me that if that hose caused it to stop in its tracks then that could of happened to any car doesn't make the car unreliable.

[SVX37]

I remember reading some reports somewhere in here that some trips have resulted in limp mode kicking in - but that was on the blacktop.

Also, one of the major 4x4 mags did a recent trip in a Puma up to the Kimberley earlier in the year/last year??? There was a major failure which they reported. I think it was a hose rubbing issue but it managed to stop the car in its tracks.

Agreed, failures can and do happen in the bush to the best of cars.

Ummmm...any chance you can provide some specific info on this?

I read the major Mags and I must have missed the article???:p

[dullbird]

Wasn't Landrover enthusiast was it? :lol2:

[slt]

Wasn't Landrover enthusiast was it? :lol2:

No, I think it was the Landcruiser Enthusiast :wasntme:

[BilboBoggles]

Just as a matter of interest - Has anyone found the relay for the headlights. I've tried listening everywhere and cannot here a click for when the high beam flash is used. So I'm beginning to think it's an urban myth.

[JohnR]

Ok can I ask this question......How many people have been stranded in the bush in a puma so far?

We haven't....

Not me :D

50,000km's in less than 2 years, including a trip to tha Cape and back towing, Melbourne and many hard core 4wding trips. As people who have been with us we do not treat this car with kit gloves in fact we thrash it :o and it has not let us down once.

Best model Defender so far in my opinion :p

Cheers,

[Tombie]

And even the most hard-core off-roader still has to get to and from the playground on a highway.

No I dont.... :cool:

[Grockle]

We prefere our Puma to the TD5 for every day use.

[muddymech]

Just as a matter of interest - Has anyone found the relay for the headlights. I've tried listening everywhere and cannot here a click for when the high beam flash is used. So I'm beginning to think it's an urban myth.


its behind the steering wheel, have a picture but dont know how to copy it to post.
there is a second relay there for hazard lights.
ian

[slt]

Just as a matter of interest - Has anyone found the relay for the headlights. I've tried listening everywhere and cannot here a click for when the high beam flash is used. So I'm beginning to think it's an urban myth.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/317.jpg

[BilboBoggles]

Thanks for those updates! But I wonder if that relay is just there to cut the power to the switch when the ignition is off. My old TD5 has a similar feature, but I think the power to the lights still goes through the switch, which is why fitting the extra relay makes the lights brighter.

[slt]

Thanks for those updates! But I wonder if that relay is just there to cut the power to the switch when the ignition is off.

Just had a look at the wiring diagrams, and you are right, the control circuit for that relay goes back to the iginition switch.

[slt]

... and to continue on from the above, confusingly there's a second page in the wiring diagram which refers to a 'Dim-Dip' relay, for which the column stalk switch is the control circuit :confused: go figure ... I'll do a little more reading...

[slt]

... and according to the Electrical Library, that 'Dim-Dip' relay is the one shown in the diagram above in location 5, ie. the 'Indicator flasher relay'. Now I'm really confused :confused::confused::confused: gonna have to find a sparky!

[muddymech]

dim-dip is probably for the uk, it turns the headlights on to a dim level when only side lights are selected.
ian

[Grockle]

dim-dip is probably for the uk, it turns the headlights on to a dim level when only side lights are selected.
ian

Only on commercials Ian.

[Aussie Mudrat]

Haven't had the benefit of a side by side comparison but owned a TD5 wagon a couple of years ago and just picked up a Puma dual cab ute and after a couple of hundred km I'm getting the impression that the puma is noisier on the insied than the TD5 was.

Mind you, when I got the TD5, I was comming from a Lada Niva and with the Puma, I'm comming from Peugot 307.

Any suggestions for sound deadening

[Psimpson7]

Only on commercials Ian.

Which then stops working if you fit a relay upgrade to the headlights!

[dullbird]

Haven't had the benefit of a side by side comparison but owned a TD5 wagon a couple of years ago and just picked up a Puma dual cab ute and after a couple of hundred km I'm getting the impression that the puma is noisier on the insied than the TD5 was.

Mind you, when I got the TD5, I was comming from a Lada Niva and with the Puma, I'm comming from Peugot 307.

Any suggestions for sound deadening

I'm surprised you think its noisy....but then I guess we came from a tdi...

[BilboBoggles]

Haven't had the benefit of a side by side comparison but owned a TD5 wagon a couple of years ago and just picked up a Puma dual cab ute and after a couple of hundred km I'm getting the impression that the puma is noisier on the insied than the TD5 was.

Mind you, when I got the TD5, I was comming from a Lada Niva and with the Puma, I'm comming from Peugot 307.

Any suggestions for sound deadening

I agree on this - I have both. The TD5 is noisier than the PUMA on the outside, but on the inside the noise is not as harsh and feels quieter. I doubt there is actually much difference but I think the 5 cylinders sounds a little smoother than 4. I've also owned a TDi and that was noisier than the TD5 and sounded quite like the PUMA in the harshness of the noise.

[Scallops]

I agree on this - I have both. The TD5 is noisier than the PUMA on the outside, but on the inside the noise is not as harsh and feels quieter. I doubt there is actually much difference but I think the 5 cylinders sounds a little smoother than 4. I've also owned a TDi and that was noisier than the TD5 and sounded quite like the PUMA in the harshness of the noise.

With the wagons, it's definitely the other way around! ;)

PS - after re reading this, I'm not sure that you do have a 130? Wasn't trying to be contradictory :angel:

[solmanic]

I'm amazed. People actually think the Puma is noisier than a Td5 on the inside? No way, not a chance, nup, nope, negative, no.

I went straight from an 02MY Td5 to the Puma and the noise difference at highway speed is like chalk and cheese. We did our test drive hopping straight from the Td5 into the Puma and running up the freeway and back and my wife was sold on the spot thanks to the quieter running. Heaps, heaps quieter.

[BilboBoggles]

Interesting. I've got a 110 TD5 and a 110 PUMA MY09, but I find the PUMA noiser and rougher sounding. Must admit I like the sounds of the TD5 so perhaps it's a perception thing.


BUT - my PUMA has just gone in to be fixed for rough running and missing on one cylinder so perhaps I have an unusually noisey one. (Although it's been noisey since new.)

[series3]

Thanks to you all for the replies to my original post.

There is a bit to chew over there.

it seems they have ironed out some of the wrinkles on the newer models.

Can anyone tell me whether they have fitted a timing chain or a rubber band on the new models?

*just to clear up any possible confusion my old man has discovered the wonders of AULRO and is posting under my login.. I hope you aren't talking him out of a new one!

[Heps]

Firstly gidday to all, my first post.. you can all be proud I have come from the jap dark side.. must admit I have finally succumbed to the land rover thing, only ever owned 4wbys, (troopy, D22 Navara and 80 series tojo) always loved the shape of the Defender, a bit nervous as I have ordered a brand new 130 dual cab, being built in October I get it in Jan 2010, and hopefully it is a reliable truck, gotta love the length of that tray for a dual cab, it doesnt need to drive up cliff faces just a solid load carrying tourer that will get me in and out of a few gnarly spots up here out of my home town of Carnarvon WA....and beyond..

[one_iota]

Thanks to you all for the replies to my original post.

There is a bit to chew over there.

it seems they have ironed out some of the wrinkles on the newer models.

Can anyone tell me whether they have fitted a timing chain or a rubber band on the new models?

Chain (I'm an ex rubber band man)

[one_iota]

Firstly gidday to all, my first post.. you can all be proud I have come from the jap dark side.. must admit I have finally succumbed to the land rover thing, only ever owned 4wbys, (troopy, D22 Navara and 80 series tojo) always loved the shape of the Defender, a bit nervous as I have ordered a brand new 130 dual cab, being built in October I get it in Jan 2010, and hopefully it is a reliable truck, gotta love the length of that tray for a dual cab, it doesnt need to drive up cliff faces just a solid load carrying tourer that will get me in and out of a few gnarly spots up here out of my home town of Carnarvon WA....and beyond..

Welcome to the inner circle. Not many people get to buy a new classic.

[colin s]

Firstly gidday to all, my first post.. you can all be proud I have come from the jap dark side.. must admit I have finally succumbed to the land rover thing, only ever owned 4wbys, (troopy, D22 Navara and 80 series tojo) always loved the shape of the Defender, a bit nervous as I have ordered a brand new 130 dual cab, being built in October I get it in Jan 2010, and hopefully it is a reliable truck, gotta love the length of that tray for a dual cab, it doesnt need to drive up cliff faces just a solid load carrying tourer that will get me in and out of a few gnarly spots up here out of my home town of Carnarvon WA....and beyond..

G'day Heps,

I think we're in the same boat here. I ordered a new 130 last month, due for delivery by end of Nov ( i hope). I have had the pleasure of stealing my old man's TD5 90 for a fair few months, albeit a Portugese spec left hooker. Loved it, but being a continental spec the heating was awful in the UK. Shouldn't be an issue up here though.
I've also had the "pleasure" of owning a Troopy. Great truck but bloody awful driving position.
I do a bit of time up here in Carnarvon, may even bump into you. Hopefully not literally!!!:D

[discowhite]

I'm amazed. People actually think the Puma is noisier than a Td5 on the inside? No way, not a chance, nup, nope, negative, no.

I went straight from an 02MY Td5 to the Puma and the noise difference at highway speed is like chalk and cheese. We did our test drive hopping straight from the Td5 into the Puma and running up the freeway and back and my wife was sold on the spot thanks to the quieter running. Heaps, heaps quieter.

you better change your sig line then:eek:

cheers phil

[Heps]

Just finalised the deal, only extras at this point in time are a steel ARB bull bar and a dual battery system with 2 x 12v outlets in the rear tray for my 40 lt engel and the mighty 70lt explorer fridge to keep all the cans cold, when I sell the D22 navara might add a few other items.....


G'day Heps,

I think we're in the same boat here. I ordered a new 130 last month, due for delivery by end of Nov ( i hope). I have had the pleasure of stealing my old man's TD5 90 for a fair few months, albeit a Portugese spec left hooker. Loved it, but being a continental spec the heating was awful in the UK. Shouldn't be an issue up here though.
I've also had the "pleasure" of owning a Troopy. Great truck but bloody awful driving position.
I do a bit of time up here in Carnarvon, may even bump into you. Hopefully not literally!!!:D

[wally]

Just finalised the deal, only extras at this point in time are a steel ARB bull bar and a dual battery system with 2 x 12v outlets in the rear tray for my 40 lt engel and the mighty 70lt explorer fridge to keep all the cans cold, when I sell the D22 navara might add a few other items.....

I trust you realise what you've done, Heps. You'll now be hooked for life, and if you get it bad enough, you may be able to think of little else, for hours at a time. You've been warned.
Congratulations on your choice. I'm sure it'll serve you well.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I'm amazed. People actually think the Puma is noisier than a Td5 on the inside? No way, not a chance, nup, nope, negative, no.

I went straight from an 02MY Td5 to the Puma and the noise difference at highway speed is like chalk and cheese. We did our test drive hopping straight from the Td5 into the Puma and running up the freeway and back and my wife was sold on the spot thanks to the quieter running. Heaps, heaps quieter.

Yep this is definitely the case. It's probably the thing I dislike the most about the TD5. The pumas are **much** quieter inside. I'm not sure how much of it is no vents, insulation, or just a quieter motor.

Anyway, we have a 4.5 year old Td5 that is now super well set up for what we want so I can't see us changing any time soon. There is so much time, effort and money in setting them up well I think it's worth investing in the newest one you can find, setting it up and keeping it. If you are one that doesn't need to mod your car then things may be different.

If we had to start again I think we would either do the same thing again (buy new) or try and get a second had TD5 that is already set up. I don't think I could justify buying a 3year old td5 and setting it up as you don't get as much value out of your mods.

As to the suitability... I'm watching their reliability with interest. I was amazed by Dm_td5's trip in his puma and the number of dealer visits he had along the way. We've never needed a mechanic or dealer on our trips (touch wood) :o

As I've had it explained to me, the puma is common rail direct injection whereas the Td5 is just direct injection. It would appear that the common rail system isn't as tolerant of water. That's a worry that can't easily be fixed. Also, blknight said that some of the bits aren't as well placed as on the td5 for offroading.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Just out of interest, what is the goss on the new defender? The Puma was mentioned as being a stop gap until the new D3 based defender arrived. That was supposed to be 2010 but that's nearly here now. How long is the defender in it's current form going to be around?

Just did a quick bit of googleing...looks like 2012 for a cut down simplified RRsport for the fender! I reckon in 2015 if this is turning out alright and I reckon I there will be another 10 years of fuel for 4wding around I might consider it!

2012 Defender (http://www.autospies.com/news/Land-Rover-working-on-the-Project-Icon-a-k-a-Defender-replacement-48243/)

2012 Defender (http://www.leftlanenews.com/land-rover-defender-2012.html)

[dullbird]

Yep this is definitely the case. It's probably the thing I dislike the most about the TD5. The pumas are **much** quieter inside. I'm not sure how much of it is no vents, insulation, or just a quieter motor.

Anyway, we have a 4.5 year old Td5 that is now super well set up for what we want so I can't see us changing any time soon. There is so much time, effort and money in setting them up well I think it's worth investing in the newest one you can find, setting it up and keeping it. If you are one that doesn't need to mod your car then things may be different.

If we had to start again I think we would either do the same thing again (buy new) or try and get a second had TD5 that is already set up. I don't think I could justify buying a 3year old td5 and setting it up as you don't get as much value out of your mods.

As to the suitability... I'm watching their reliability with interest.
I was amazed by Dm_td5's trip in his puma and the number of dealer visits he had along the way. We've never needed a mechanic or dealer on our trips (touch wood) :o

As I've had it explained to me, the puma is common rail direct injection whereas the Td5 is just direct injection. It would appear that the common rail system isn't as tolerant of water. That's a worry that can't easily be fixed. Also, blknight said that some of the bits aren't as well placed as on the td5 for offroading.

bare in mind though he would have done enough k's for a service possibly two...we had to have ours serviced while we were on our trip

[Captain_Rightfoot]

bare in mind though he would have done enough k's for a service possibly two...we had to have ours serviced while we were on our trip

What is the service interval? I think it's 25k on the td5 :o You could argue that in those conditions it should be done before then, but 25k is a loong way :)

[JohnR]

What is the service interval? I think it's 25k on the td5 :o You could argue that in those conditions it should be done before then, but 25k is a loong way :)

The book says every 20k we do ours ever 10k . I think any vehicle you can stretch the intervals out but you'll pay in the long run.

50,000kms and our is still going strong with nono of the major drama's

Cheers,

[Captain_Rightfoot]

The book says every 20k we do ours ever 10k . I think any vehicle you can stretch the intervals out but you'll pay in the long run.

50,000kms and our is still going strong with nono of the major drama's

Cheers,

The TD5 has a centrifugal filter which is why it can go further than the puma I think. I change ours every 6 months, or after a trip. Sometimes, the 6 month changes might only have covered 2 tanks of fuel as our car doesn't get much use usually. We did a run to Broome and back in 07 and did 16k. We changed the oil before we left, and when we got home and didn't feel the slightest of a pang of guilt. Using the very best oil, and only 2/3's the service distance in a month... it will live. :)

[dullbird]

it is recommended for australian conditions to be done every 12 but if going ofroad in dusty conditions it supposed to be done every 10..from my undestanding though that is not a filter change every time.

it was originally every 20 and thats what it says in the book so you would have no issues doing this as that is what is printed so they have no come back..

but when we first went to the dealer we were told 10...we were shocked and thought this can't be right as we bought the car factoring in 20k services not 10...contact LRA and they confirmed with us in Aus it should really be done every 12

[Heps]

Geeeeez u fellas got me wondering whether I should cancel this deal or not lots of problems and ive spoken to a guy up here who has a new defender and the dust coming in to his truck was amazing, i will be driving it constantly in red dust country, not sure now give me some advice please

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Open the vents... that keeps it out... I mean put it on outside air to pressurise the cabin. :)