R380 TD5 vs 300Tdi

[slug_burner]

Sorry not to good on the search function.

Can anyone tell me if the R380 in a defender with a TD5 is the same/transferable with the 300Tdi one? I see a few TD5 ones coming up on ebay and want to know if it would fit my 300Tdi. I suspect that the bell housing will be different but is the input shaft the same so if I swap bell housing will I be OK?

[Slunnie]

I'm not sure about the bellhousings and input shafts, but I'm pretty sure the the TD5 R380's have a remote oil cooler where the TDi R380's don't

[slug_burner]

The oil cooler would be a benefit. I think that the earlier R380 can also have a cooler placed onto them. I believe that in the UK the plate to stick on the side of the R380 are plentifull for the earlier boxes due to the use of R380's behind V8's in Discos

[langy]

This has been asked last year some time - the answer was no: the input shaft is a different part number. For the record, my use of a v8 r380 in a tdi wasn't a great success as the custom spigot bearing didn't last too long. Your right about the remote oil cooler, but you'll need different lines to clear the different shape bellhousing and exhaust pipes.

[Chucaro]

I'm not sure about the bellhousings and input shafts, but I'm pretty sure the the TD5 R380's have a remote oil cooler where the TDi R380's don't

Just as a matter of curiosity, I heard that the last Td1300 1999 models have the coolers. It is that true?

[rick130]

Just as a matter of curiosity, I heard that the last Td1300 1999 models have the coolers. It is that true?

No, not true, or at least mine never came with one.

What the last of the Tdi's have though is a 'K' suffix 'box, which has revised internals and is a lot stronger than the earlier 'J' suffix R380.

Dave Ashcroft has said that they treat the 'K' and later TD5 'L' 'boxes as the same when rebuilding, and are structurally the same although there are are a couple of small detail differences.

Some Tdi's came with oil coolers, eg UK Army Wolf's have a huge one in front of the radiator, and apparently some early African spec ones used them.
UK/European delivered TD5 Defender's didn't come with a g/box oil cooler either.

[Chucaro]

Thanks Rick, do you know if the cooler can be adapted to the 380GB circa 1994 or the plugs for the hoses are not there on the case?
Cheers

[rick130]

Thanks Rick, do you know if the cooler can be adapted to the 380GB circa 1994 or the plugs for the hoses are not there on the case?
Cheers


Yep, it's easy. On a non cooled box there is an oil transfer plate that bolts on to side of the box, just remove that and fit the t/stat/cooler line housing (using new O rings)

I'll look for some pics.

[Bush65]

Thanks Rick, do you know if the cooler can be adapted to the 380GB circa 1994 or the plugs for the hoses are not there on the case?
Cheers
Yes, the housing and thermatic valve that bolts to the side of the gearbox is the same for LT77's and R380's.

[rick130]

There's a thread on the oil cooler here http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/76106-r380-oil-cooler.html with all the Wolf part #'s courtesy of Dave Ashcroft

and here's a line drawing of the t/stat housing on the 'box. On the non oil cooled ones there aren't any threaded bosses, it's only an oil transfer pipe.

[slug_burner]

...... Dave Ashcroft has said that they treat the 'K' and later TD5 'L' 'boxes as the same when rebuilding, and are structurally the same although there are are a couple of small detail differences.



rick130,

Do you know if one of the detail differences is the input shaft?

[rick130]

I'm pretty sure the input shaft is different between the Tdi and TD5, IIRC there was a thread on this once before, so it'd a box down job to change it. I'll see if I can find it.

[rick130]

Slug, probably easiest to PM Ian and Dave Ashcroft (ashtrans is their member name here)

this is a copy and paste from their site

R 380 Development
The R 380 was introduced in 1994 with the suffix J which was a significant improvement on the LT 77 it supercedes, differences included a steel oil pump (as opposed to the LT 77 fibre one), an additional 2 support bearings were used on the layshaft and the mainshaft, wider gears, bigger diameter syncro rings, syncromesh on reverse and a longer mainshaft spline.
This suffix J did unfortunately have a couple of design flaws which gave the R 380 some bad press, they were prone to the mainshaft shearing across the oil feed holes, the layshaft also sheared at a stress concentration behind the sandwich plate causing loss of 5th and reverse also early ones still suffered from mainshaft wear until the cross drilled transfer case gears became fitted as standard on the suffix G transfer cases.
In 1999 the suffix K was used very briefly for a few months then came the suffix L that is used currently. The J and L are very different, 2 of the bearings were substantially uprated and pinion and layshaft teeth were widened again, this results in a much stronger unit.
Cooling
It is not abnormal for the R 380 to run quite hot and this often results on either baulking or sticky shifts which can often be improved by either an oil additive or different oil. On the short stick boxes or it can cause the actual gearstick pivot ball to get tight in it"s socket which you can improve by stripped, cleaning oiling and replacing.
If you feel your unit is running too hot then bear in mind Landrover make for 2 main markets, Europe and Rest of World (ROW), the ROW spec TD5 Defender and Disco gearboxes are oil cooled but Europe spec are not, there is some debate as to whether they should be, especially if you live in south Spain or Italy Etc.

[slug_burner]

Rick130,

PM sent, I will let you know what I am told.

[C H T]

The 300Tdi R380 and the TD5 R380 are directly interchangeable - the input shafts are different. To use a TD5 R380 in a 300 Tdi you must change the bell housing and input shaft. All R380s have the oil cooler ports on the side of the gearbox extension housing. Where no cooler is fitted a blanking plate covers the inlet and outlet ports. There are two types of adapter for the oil cooler lines - you must use the lines and adapter that go together (the difenference is in the seal arrangement for the lines).

CHT

[slug_burner]

Thanks do Dave from Ashcroft Transmissions,


Here is the answer which is as some of you have stated.


Hi,

you will have to strip the box and change the pinion for the 300 suffix L one, TUD102580,

Dave

[3 Lions]

I know its an old thread....

But would it make much difference if the gearbox on a late TD5 Defender was replaced with the one that didn't have the ROW external cooler oil pipes??

My one doid have it, nut the garage has replaced it with one that doesnt have the cooler pipes..... am not particulalrly happy about this...

[Tins]

I know its an old thread....

But would it make much difference if the gearbox on a late TD5 Defender was replaced with the one that didn't have the ROW external cooler oil pipes??

My one doid have it, nut the garage has replaced it with one that doesnt have the cooler pipes..... am not particulalrly happy about this...

I replied on your other thread. All R380s have the option for the oil transfer adaptor. If yours had the cooler you will need to remove this from your box and fit it ti the new one. Any LR mech should know this.
the piece you need is about $1000, so you need to make sure you get it back of your old box.

TD5 clutch, Transmission woes.... (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/294287-td5-clutch-transmission-woes-post3197626.html#post3197626)

[3 Lions]

I did look up the cost of the replacement part...still getting over that !!!

I have been to see the said garage today, He had spoken to the place that recoed the gearbox he'd bought for my vehicle. The gearbox is supposedly from a reputable recoer/supplier in Sydney.

They advised him that he could get away with using the other part...which is exactly what he has done, cooler pipes are going back on with new o rings etc.

As i said in an earlier post, I don't know how much difference they make having them on as opposed to not, but if they were originally fitted to ROW (Non-UK/Europe) Defenders then they must do something...I would have thought????... so hence did want htem back on if possible.

[3 Lions]

Thanks for your advice and help Tins!! [smilebigeye]

[Tins]

Thanks for your advice and help Tins!! [smilebigeye]

All good. Keep an eye on the pipes for leaks. Son's car sprung a leak at the gearbox end and the pic I posted shows the end result.