88" Can I borrow your rear seats? (also: military LR, 110/County/SIII/Stage 1 wagon)

[Hebe]

Hi,

Hebe is ready for re-registration. That process has been a bit of a nightmare so far.

1st) I was a few minutes late... sorry go make a new appointment.
2nd) Next appointment the process was almost ready when it didn't print out the registration card. Reason, Vic Roads system for the whole of the state crashed. Come back later.... I still need to go back...

In addition, the previous registration had it as a 3 seater and incorrectly listed it as 1957 instead of 1958 and the vehicle inspector didn't want to change anything.

HELP
Do You Have your 88" Registered as a 7 Seater!? You can help me!

Due to the computer crash I have to come back and was luckily put in touch with the supervisor. He said:

In order to change it I would need an engineers report. Which I was adviced would be unlikely to be given for the benches in the back without the seat belts.

Or... if I could show that other people with the same model had it registered for 7 seats they could consider (no promises) to change it from 3 to 7 seats.

If you have yours registered as a 7 seater (in VIC or other states), could you send me an email or text message with your license plate number? Or call me... hebe.land.rover@gmail.com / 043-0509258 (Kris). Even if you have a 80"or 86" let me know.

Can anyone in/near Melbourne borrow me the back seats/benches for my 88" Series 1 (1958), one day only?

I think that if I show up with these at registration it would help as well. Unfortunately I don't have any myself. I would need to borrow them for only one day. Anyone?

(The side benches/seats directly above the wheel wells.)

Email or text/call me... hebe.land.rover@gmail.com / 043-0509258 (Kris).




As to changing the year from 1957 to 1958... The supervisor was OK with accepting the details from the original workshop book I have. I guess he was extra friendly seen the computer crash etc. Otherwise I may have needed a letter from Land Rover.

If you can't help... maybe you know someone who can!?

Anyway, thanks again guys.... Hope I can return the favour one day...

Kris on behalf of Hebe

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Kris

The rear seats from anything should fit your 1958 even seats from a military LR, a 110/County or SIII/Stage 1 wagon only the 12 seat wagon and 80" seats are different. (Although there is a difference in the backrest brackets between S1 and the later models.)

Your 1958 was pre ADR so seat belts are not required in the rear, however if fitted they are required to meet A/NZ Standards

Diana

[Hebe]

Thanks Diana,

Luckily they didn't mention the seat belts and were going to pass hebe as is (3 seats front) without them.

I guess that if I would need a new engineers report on the rear seats that would take into consideration current safety requirements. If I went that route I wondered what would happen, the engineers requiring seat belts for the back but ignoring the front as that was not the issue!? It's crazy. If they want real safety they should insist on everyone getting seat belts. If they want to allow originality they shouldn't be so beaurocraticly difficult.

?? Anyone in Australia got their 88", 86"or 80" for that matter registered on the road as a 7 seater?? If you don't want to share your license plate number with me (private or on this forum) than at least let me know if you got the 7 seat registration and in which state.

So far no one replied, isn't there anyone who's got it registered as a 7 seater?

Email, text, or call...
hebe.land.rover@gmail.com / 043-0509258

Well, if anyone in/near Melbourne can give me the use of their back benches for one day, would be appreciated.

Anyway, thanks guys.

Kris

[Hebe]

I am looking for the side benches/seats directly above the wheel wells.

I need to borrow them for one day only in order to get my car registered for 7 seats. Have a look at the original thread and the first post at:

88" Can I borrow your rear seats? (also: military LR, 110/County/SIII/Stage 1 wagon) (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/series-i-land-rover-enthusiasts-section/88981-88-can-i-borrow-your-rear-seats-also-military-lr-110-county-siii-stage-1-wagon.html)

Best to reply on that thread. My contact details are there.

Thanks for looking.

[Psimpson7]

Defender ones wont fit as a straight swap. The wheel box to body capping height is different, and will require you to make brackets.

[Hebe]

Hi,

Thanks,... please best to respond on original thread.

Anyway, it would be for one day only. They wouldn't test the seats etc. They would just want to see them there. If I just have them in the back with some temporary bracing I think it would be fine. They know I am going to do a paint job next and I can just say they were temporarily removed and put back.

So if you can help out!?

[Hebe]

This got me thinking... I want to get seats in the back anyway. Originaly I thought to get a welder to help me. (new to Australia and have not many tools, also living in small appartment in city centre)

So, why not buying them. I see that there are some reproductions on sale in the UK. Even on Ebay (although those don't list Series 1 specifically)

See links:
Land Rover Series 1 Bench Seats (http://www.johncraddock-trim.co.uk/land-rover-series-1-bench-seats-1415-0.html)
Land Rover Series 2 and 3 Load Area Seats (http://www.johncraddock-trim.co.uk/land-rover-series-2-and-3-load-area-seats-1108-0.html)
LAND ROVER 90/110 & SERIES 3 TWO MAN BLACK BENCH SEAT on eBay (end time 26-Oct-09 16:09:12 GMT) (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LAND-ROVER-90-110-SERIES-3-TWO-MAN-BLACK-BENCH-SEAT_W0QQitemZ390075115061QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Ca rsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item5ad249e635&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)
Land Rover Defender / Series 2A 3 2 Man Bench Seat on eBay (end time 13-Oct-09 14:51:04 BST) (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Land-Rover-Defender-Series-2A-3-2-Man-Bench-Seat_W0QQitemZ400025057618QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Ca rsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item5d2359f952&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)
LAND ROVER SERIES 2/2A/3 SWB "TECHNO" REAR BENCH SEAT on eBay (end time 13-Oct-09 17:17:09 BST) (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LAND-ROVER-SERIES-2-2A-3-SWB-TECHNO-REAR-BENCH-SEAT_W0QQitemZ220466874441QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Ca rsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3354d98849&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)
LAND ROVER SERIES 2/3 SWB BLACK VINYL REAR BENCH SEAT on eBay (end time 20-Oct-09 17:04:38 BST) (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LAND-ROVER-SERIES-2-3-SWB-BLACK-VINYL-REAR-BENCH-SEAT_W0QQitemZ370219038028QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Ca rsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item5632c6354c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)
LAND ROVER SERIES ELEPHANT HYDE BENCH SEATS SEE LIST on eBay (end time 09-Oct-09 11:40:48 BST) (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LAND-ROVER-SERIES-ELEPHANT-HYDE-BENCH-SEATS-SEE-LIST_W0QQitemZ140349099629QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Ca rsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item20ad754e6d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)

However, can't google or Ebay anyone in Australia with rear seats/benches for sale?

And which ones to go for?

Does anyone do reproductions here in Australia?

If I have to get them shipped from the UK it would take too long. My RWC is only another two weeks so I need to do the registration soon. Anyone can give me the use of their back benches for one day, would still be appreciated and extremely helpful.

Thanks

[FenianEel]

If you're not going to use it as a 7 seater, why bother going through the grief?
Just get it registered as a 3 seater?

If you register it as a 7 seater, and don't have the rear seats in it, everytime you drive it, you can be pinged, and insurance won't cover you - even if someone else is at fault or hits you.

[Hebe]

Hi,

I guess the last two posts were posted at around the same time.

Oh, I do want to use it as a 7 seater.

I just didn't think they would have liked to see the actual benches in the back at re-registration. Should have though of that earlier. To me the wheel arches are the benches themselves. Who needs cushions and pillows!? I wanted to take care of getting comfortable benches after the paint job.

What do you mean with pinged? I am Dutch and not familiar with that term when it comes to traffic/driving.

And would insurance not cover me if there is no one seated in the back? I guess the seats/benches would possibly be a requirement if someone is seated there. However, there are plenty of cars and vans which allow removal or collaps of the rear seats/benches. I don't think that is a problem when there is no one seated in the back. And would insurance cover anyway... seen there are no seatbelts?

Of course, no one dares to hit a 1958 Land Rover, and I don't plan on crashing it myself... so no insurance needed.... :angel:

[Shonky]

pinged = busted = caught = :coplight:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

This got me thinking... I want to get seats in the back anyway.
Kris

The seats in the back of the 86"/88" S1 are almost identical to the ones in the S2/S2a military apart from the backrest and the brackets to the side of the cab. In fact the hinged base in the S1 version and the S2/S2a/S3 is the same part number.

The backrest is fixed to the top of the wheel-boxes with 4 bolts, washers, spring washers and nuts. There is also a bracket to fix to the side of the hard-top although for soft-top models (from memory) the backrest was fixed with a spacer, nuts, bolts etc through the side capping and seat backrest frame.

If you take the S1 1954-57 parts catalogue to the RTA, they can not require an engineers report because it is an original fitting.

If you want I can copy the book when I get home tonight and email/fax it to you.

Diana

[Hebe]

Thanks Diana,

As usual you are very helpful.

I have the 4107 - Land Rover Series I 1954-1958 Parts Catalogue.pdf

And can print that page out for them. Together with my original 4291 Workshop Manual 1948-1958 I should be able to get that message through. Still, the supervisor said he wanted to check if anyone else had it registered as a 7 seater.

In addition the guy doing the actual work of inspecting and registration went back to the car to see the back. He "didn't see seats" and therefore it should stay as a 3-seater. This indicates to me they want to see actual seats there.

So, I hope to find someone who can borrow some to me for the registration. No luck so far. As a last resort I will put some pillows on the wheel arches. :)

Thanks,

Kris

[Tote]

If you're not going to use it as a 7 seater, why bother going through the grief?
Just get it registered as a 3 seater?

If you register it as a 7 seater, and don't have the rear seats in it, everytime you drive it, you can be pinged, and insurance won't cover you - even if someone else is at fault or hits you.

By that logic every time I drive my D3 with the rear seats folded down I would be voiding my insurance :wasntme:

Regards,
Tote

[FenianEel]

By that logic every time I drive my D3 with the rear seats folded down I would be voiding my insurance :wasntme:

Regards,
Tote
No, completely different actually. ;)

Folded down is not 'completely removed'.
Temporary removal of seating is allowed, for modern vehicles, with removable/stowaway seating. i.e 3rd row seats, people movers etc.
For Vicroads / QT and anyone else, wheel arches aren't considered seating.
Seat belts aren't an issue in regards to seating on pre ADR seat belt vehicles.

[Hebe]

Ah,

Well being new to Australia I guess you guys know best. Thing is... in my experience in the USA, Ireland, The Netherlands and Thailand... insurance companies never like to pay out and always take anything out of the ordinary as an excuse not to pay. So... a Series 1 with or without seat belts, with or without rear seating...

And insurance companies versus registration authorities may have different view on things as well.

But again, I am new and you guys have more experience here.

By the way, what did you mean with "ping"?

Anyway, a bit off topic. Anyone can borrow me rear seating, or tell me of their succesfull 7 seater registration? (see previous posts)

[FenianEel]

pinged = busted = caught = :coplight:

Pinged means, given a ticket, fined, arrested etc

[The ho har's]

Hi
It could be very hard borrowing my seats as I live 1,700klms from you;)


Mrs ho har:angel:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

....In addition the guy doing the actual work of inspecting and registration went back to the car to see the back. He "didn't see seats" and therefore it should stay as a 3-seater. This indicates to me they want to see actual seats there.

So, I hope to find someone who can borrow some to me for the registration. No luck so far. As a last resort I will put some pillows on the wheel arches. :)

Thanks,
KrisKris

I would loan you a set of mine apart from the fact that the frames are in Sydney, the cushions in Nowra and the return postage would probably be as much as buying a set from a wrecker or eBay.

Diana

Addit: Well there you go - I just got home, looked at the 1954-57 parts catalogue and now realise the difference between the S1 and S2/S2a/S3 rear seats.

In the S1 the backrests are held on by a single bolt in the seatbox at each end and a single bolt in the backrest to gal capping at each end, where the S2 and later are held by two bolts in the seatbox at each end with slotted holes in the frame and the backrest has brackets.

Never the less, I still say pragmatically you can use the later ones in the S1 88" for the RWC.

[Hebe]

Hi,

Someone from LROCV contacted me and offered to borrow the seats. Thanks, you know who you are.

I am going there tommorrow (2 Oct 2009). So if anyone knows of a 80, 86, or 88" which is or was registered as a 7 seater in Victoria (or other states) let me know the license plate or VIN. This way I can convince Vic Roads to allow mine to be a 7 seater as well.

I will let everyone know on this forum what the outcome is.

Thanks,

Kris

[UncleHo]

G'day Hebe :)

The insurance problem in respect to the seating capacity is, that in Australia when you register a vehicle you also have to pay for 3rd party insurance, (personal injury insurance cover), this is the expensive part of your rego, totally different to compresensive insurance, (vehicle/property damage) so if your vehicle is registered as 3 or ? seater and you have extra seats in the vehicle and are involved in a accident and there were injuries, then those in excess of the registered number would not be covered and you/driver could face a jailable offence :(

My series 2a military is registered as an 11 seater (minibus) here in the state of Queensland and has been since 1992 :)

Hope this is of some help and I wish you the best of luck

I have found that when dealing with most departments of main road's (RTA) that if is not on their computer, it was never built and has never existed :mad::( and none of the staff can think for themselves, also the fact that your vehicle was built before even their father's retired :D


cheers

[Lotz-A-Landies]

...

My series 2a military is registered as an 11 seater (minibus) here in the state of Queensland and has been since 1992 :) ...

... I have found that when dealing with most departments of main road's (RTA) that if is not on their computer, it was never built and has never existed :mad::( and none of the staff can think for themselves, also the fact that your vehicle was built before even their father's retired :D

cheersKevin

In NSW if your Land Rover was registered as a minibus you may have to have 6 monthly inspections and the insurance would be a nightmare.

The RTA :mad: :mad: ..... I went overseas in the late 1980's and left my 5 litre RRc unregistered while I was away. When I got back the RTA had changed their computer system and didn't have the old records so they registered the vehicle as a 3.5 litre even though the vehicle had a P76 engine number and a type approval plate on the radiator panel. They said if I wanted it registered as a 5 litre I'd have to get an engineers certification. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Diana

[UncleHo]

G'day Lotz-A-Landies :)

Yes, Diana, when I regoed it in 92 it was regoed as a "Troop Carrier" and then I got a letter informing me to present it as they thought that they had mis-registered it, and that it should be a Toyota :mad: so I took it in, and they were suprised that it was in fact a Landrover and that it was indeed in a Troop Transport Configeration :) they then apoligised, so when in the late 90's Qld was dragged screaming into the 20th century with National road rules, so my vehicle then became a "minibus"with the body shape of "minibus" (any vehicle with a seating capacity of 8 or more) and I then started recieving letters stating, "Dear Driver, do you have the correct class of license to drive the above noted vehicle,if not you need to upgrade your license to the correct classification" I do have and have held an open omminibus license, in schedule, tour, charter, school, and off road,and also have the current Qld Driver'sAuthority :) after the first 6 presentations for the Qld Machinery inspection and certificate, they realised that it was not a BUS but the same as a Toyota Tarrago "a people carrier" :( so gave up requesting me to attend machinery inspection days,.

Only with the National Road Rules, Qld was forced to allow registration of LHD vehicles over 30 years old, the same as Southern States up until then only Companies and the Military Jeep Club of Qld could have full or any registration.


As I said before if it ain't in the puta it does not,and never did exist,and wasn't made, :( I know of a gentleman who was refused registration of a "Panther" motorcycle as it wasn't in the computer, and "it was a made up name" :mad: if it wasn't so serious it would be funny :D it cost him a few $$$$ in time off work and he supplied a printed history of the make to convince the WONDERFULL public servant,who still doubted him,he took the motorcycle to Brisbane in the end.

cheers

[Hebe]

Hi all,

Well, just got back. Good news and bad news.

:):):):):)
Good News:
-I got priority re-inspection and re-registraiton service by another supervisor.
-The incorrect manufacturing date is changed, now correctly 1958.
-The 3 seats were changed to 7 seats. Requirments, supervisor sees the actual seats in the back and sees the work shop manual. That I provided a Queensland license plate number from a colleague 88" 7 seater seemed to have helped as well. Although that was considered behind closed doors.

(for any Series 1, 88", wanting to follow suit, my license plate is now XGV-445, the QLD one I found through Google/forum search and looking at pictures)

:(:(:(
Bad News:
-I estimate that for 7 seats I pay around 200 to 300 AUD more in TAC Premium. Not sure excactly how much. (I was so fed up they could have asked anything)
-On my way home it was decided to create some knocking in the engine. Powerloss of course. And before I was able to pull over the whole engine rattled with extreme powerloss and next the whole car shaked. At the side of the road I open the hood and look to see nothing obvious (which I was afraid for). Ten/twenty seconds later I hear something dropping down in the engine and the water overflow starts spewing out yellow/brown muck.

So I have to delay the repainting. I am not a mechanic myself but I guess that the internals are shot. I hope it is just one broken piston, but it sounded like much more than that.

The mechanic (Dingley Village Mechanical Services) I go to is the guy who took care of Hebe for the previous owner. However, I am not sure how confident he may be opening the engine.

So, if the internals are fixable... next step is to find someone more knowledgeable on reconditioning a series 1 engine. I hate to ask,... but anyone?

Anyway, I am glad that at least Hebe is legal on the road and I can fill it with 6 passengers and one driver.

Once more my thanks to the person borrowing me the rear seats/benches. Much appreciated.

FYI Vic Roads reminded me that in this case no seat belts are OK for age 8 and over. Any children 7 and younger always need seat belts, no matter what the age of the vehicle is.

Kris

[UncleHo]

G'day Hebe :)

Congratulations on getting it registered :) the engine knock may only be a blown head gasket, if it was a piston then there would have been blue smoke out of the rear, maybe a broken conrod bolt, (age) but with water coming out of the radiator overflow, I would say a head gasket, or at worst a cracked head, (these are often repairable) when it has cooled down, refill radiator, start engine, and see if there any bubbles in the radiator water, if so then the culprit would most likely be a head gasket, it would depend on just how hot it got, if it was severely overheated, (close to seizing):( then those noises and severe lack of power would be the symptoms, if so, then the rings would have lost tension and will need to be replaced,as well as bearings conrod and mains (I have seen motors where the paint has been cooked off the block):(:mad::( which were repaired with an overhaul, rings bearings, and head skim, and all gaskets replaced, including a new thermostat.


As to the child in seat belt regulation, if the vehicle does not have seat belts, or approved seatbelt mounting locations factory fitted then no seatbelt can be installed, so if not there can't be worn. if you do decide to fit seat belts for safety sake, then it will require a plate fitted below the rear wheelboxes and a lot of holes drilled/welded and a engineers certification and modification plate fitted, that could work out very expensive.then do not be suprised if they require front seat belts and modification plate fitted as well :( (the whole idea is to make it hard, so that you replace your OLD pre-ADR (Aust Design Rules) car with a new one :angel: sells cars :o

cheers