glow plugs.....

[relick62au]

I don't get it, I have had the head off for a few months, everything was running before but wanted to check it out and do valve stem seals. Anyways I get it back together today and I'll be buggered, wont start, not a single pop of ignition!!!:(
So I says to myself must be fuel, bleed the new injectors, na, nuthin, ok, bleed the pump just to be sure, na nuthin, winding winding winding over, nuthin...:mad:
Teenage son hounded me thru the whole episode (4hrs) about checking the glow plugs, so, ok, nuthin left to do, pull em out, they are all wet with fuel, put 12 volts on em, nuthin.....:confused: Not a single sizzle out of any of them, am I missing something here or should they not be getting HOT??
Question is, how could they all be stuffed at once, when everything was peachy prior. HHHHHEEEEEEEELLLLLLPPPPPP!!!!!:bangin:

[fraser130]

Is this a series landy diesel?
If I remember correctly, the Glowplugs have two connections, and the earth is not one of them, so they are wired in series, so each one gets 3 volts, except there is also a resistor in the circut, which drops it further.
My memory os a little faded, but the thick wire comes from the resistor on the firewall then kinda zig-zags across all the glowplugs, with the last wire going to earth.....
So there is one connection at the tip, then an insulating ceramic washer, then another connection, then insulation, then the body (earth) which is not a connection..Clear as mud?

I'll see if I can confirm this somwhere and post back.


Does this picture help?





Fraser

[Blknight.aus]

if youve cranked it that much it'll start anyway.

the glow plug sequence (assuming you're using the genuine plugs) is in series and the body is not earthed.

DO not place a single glow plug across a 12v battery with out a current limiter or you will be puttin a new on in the hole you pulled it from. (It'll still work to seal the compression in tho)

a correct sequence for the wiring is

from the glowplug relay (or switch) to the resistor wire
a wire from the resistor wire to the bottom of glow plug 4
a ceramic insert
a wire from the top of glow plug 4 to the bottom of glow plug 3
a knurled locating nut

from there repeat the sequence but step the sequence relevent to the plugs the power coming from plug 4 rather than the resistor wire.

the last connector goes from the top of plug 1 to a good earth.

you only need one rough connection and it wont work.

what other work have you had done, might the pump timing or phasing be off?


IF after about 10 seconds of cranking with the fuel cut off in the run position and your foot flat on the floor if you're not huffing white smoke out the exhuast you've got serious compression issues and its not going to start.

[relick62au]

Hi Dave,

Well I've had em all on 12v so :o!! I would have sworn there was no wire coming off the last plug and going to earth but I could be wrong........
There certainly was not when I was trying to start it today. I put a multi meter on them in situ and they were getting 12v so??
As for work done it was purely head off, valves out, all good and put back together with new stem seals, head back on, make clearances 12 thou and here I am.
Do I need to do anything with timing the pump, hope not cause i've got no idea!?!?!?!

Russell.

[Blknight.aus]

again assuming you have the original series plugs and havent retrofitted normal 12v plugs.

if you dont have the earth lead your not going to be completing the 12v circuit

if you dont have the wiring hooked up properly then you dont complete the circuit (remeber theres 2 leads per plug)

if you put 12v onto the plug directly for long it will open circut and not work.

any chance of a pic of the wiring and a close up of the writing on the body of the plug?

[relick62au]

No pics but on the glow plugs is:
CORE 330 1.7V 3K
CORE 330 1.7V LRS 5H
CORE 330 1.7V 2G
133 B 1.7V LRG (NON MATCHING)

iT'S ALL APART AGAIN NOW AND i'M LOOKING FOR THAT LAST WIRE TO EARTH THE LAST PLUG........

[Blknight.aus]

they are the ones that you hook up in series (like the photo) I'll take some close ups of fozzys for you and draw up my suggested wiring diagram.

[fraser130]

Russell, when you measure the voltage, because there is no earth connected, you will get a 12v reading from all the plugs because there is no earth to pull the voltage down, but at least we know the realay and resistor is working, also, if they are wired correctly, (except the earth) then none of them are blown.
If you look closely at the plugs, there is a bronze part (one connection) and a threaded tip (the other connection).
The power has to flow through all of the plugs and eventually to earth.

so it will be resistor, bronze bit, tip to bronze, tip to bronze, tip to bronze, tip to earth, OR resistor , tip, bronze to tip, bronze to tip, bronze to tip, bronze to earth.
it all depends on where the wire from the resistor first goes to (which size hole it has on the wire) I wish I could remember where the earth was on mine, but it's been 12 years......

Fraser

[relick62au]

Thanks Fraser,

Mate, I cant remember what happened 12 days ago so I reckon your memory is not too bad!!
My main concern now in that in my ignorant bliss I have used jumper leads to connect each and every one to 12 volt, positive on threaded tip and negative on the body:(........ Being that I now know they dont earth thru the case am I out of the woods??
I cant believe I got the whole thing back together and I am missing one bloody wire, bugger. The fitting on the end of the wire coming from the resistor is the larger size so I had it all wired up fine but for that last connection to earth.
Now I am wondering what the difference is between them that is indicated by the last few letters in the numbers.
Many thanks to both you guys (Dave and Fraser) for your assistance. This would have ended with acquiring a car trailer and a trip to the Rover Doc. An episode that would have been a drama for me at present.

[relick62au]

:D Gentlemen, there is life!!!

All's is good, she is running although a little rough and still blowing blue/grey smoke intermittently but, at least I know what it isn't!!

Got her up to operating temp and re-tensioned the head. Is it really necessary to remove the injectors in order to re-tension the 2 bolts and 2 nuts that are below the injector bodies??

I guess the last thing to do is time the pump but I reckon I'll leave that for the pros.

Russell.

[Blknight.aus]

if its running its pretty close to timed right.

depending on what type of torque wrenches you have yes you need to pull the injectors to get to those two bolts..

in a pinch you can drop the lead from the 3rd glow plug to an earth. mine is off of a rocker cover bolt but normally it goes down to the bolt in the top right of the plate that mounts the oil filler neck (similar to as depicted in the photo)

A little puffing is normal from these engines when they are trying to cold idle. soon as you put some noise and load on it it will clean up.

[fraser130]

Russell, just a quick little tale that happened to me.
I had a 2.25 diesel, and for years It had been absolutely gutless., well one day I drove into a tiny diesel farm equipment place in the middle of nowhere near Ballaarat, for another issue I was having, anyway he heard me drive drive in and walked out to see who it was.
He walked up to me and said, "your timing's too retarded, just twist the pump a little"
Anyway, I went into town and bought a $12 crap socket set (as at the time I had no tools) and did what he suggested.

Boy what a difference!
It went straight to the diesel "rattle" and had AT LEAST half as much power again.
I'll never forget it, it was a completely different engine.
I love those little engines.
One day I might even buy our daughter a SWB ragtop diesel.
Enjoy!

Fraser

(sorry if I got a little carried away, I got all reminicent(Ron?))

[relick62au]

:) Did the valve clearances to 12 thou, she's tickin' over like She's swiss made, thanx for the help, bit of paint and assembly and then I'll throw on a few pics and bask in the glory!!!

Russell.

[Johnno1969]

Russell, just a quick little tale that happened to me.
I had a 2.25 diesel, and for years It had been absolutely gutless., well one day I drove into a tiny diesel farm equipment place in the middle of nowhere near Ballaarat, for another issue I was having, anyway he heard me drive drive in and walked out to see who it was.
He walked up to me and said, "your timing's too retarded, just twist the pump a little"
Anyway, I went into town and bought a $12 crap socket set (as at the time I had no tools) and did what he suggested.

Boy what a difference!
It went straight to the diesel "rattle" and had AT LEAST half as much power again.
I'll never forget it, it was a completely different engine.
I love those little engines.
One day I might even buy our daughter a SWB ragtop diesel.
Enjoy!

Fraser

(sorry if I got a little carried away, I got all reminicent(Ron?))


Just reading Fraser's note made me think of my own 2.25 diesel. I rebuilt it in my brother's shed nearly ten years ago. I'd always heard from all and sundry how gutless and useless these engines are supposed to be, but of course had a go at it anyway. Once it was all ready, I bunged it into the IIA and off I went. From the first drive, I was blown away. To say that it outperformed the Holden 186 previously in the Landy (not my fault. There was a Holden engine in the car when I bought it) is an understatement. While it certainly doesn't have the top end of the petrol six, it left it for dead low-down and mid-range. True, it is a tad underpowered, but it trundles along doing what it was designed to do very well. I get between 28 and 34mpg always (average 29-30), it's never given any trouble at all, starts easily without even using the glowplugs and I just love it. Of course, it doesn't match the 200Tdi in my Defender in a lot of ways, but it has its own appeal.

What made me think to write is Fraser's mention of timing. It is true that just one or two degrees can make a big difference to these engines. His story of a roadside adjustment transforming the engine is not unfamiliar. When I put the pump on, I lined up the master spline as described in the manual, but there was no pointer for fine adjustment. Luckily, I must have been holding my mouth right as I tightened things up, as she fired up beautifully. I backed away slowly and carefully and haven't touched it since.....

The glowplugs I bought for the rebuild, incidentally, were from a mob called Dieselglow, through Paddock's. They are a probe-type plug, not the early style elements which can break up (and had done on my engine prior to its rebuild). The wiring diagram said not to run a wire from number one to earth and so I didn't. They work beautifully on the rare occasions that I actually need them.

Cheers,

John