No Go

[101 Ron]

The story
I do not own a freelander and know little about them.
I was doing a PR call on a customer of mine and there was his freelander up on stands with himself and the site plant mechanic trying to bleed the thing and get it going.

I had a look.
It turns out they had just replaced the head gasket.
The motor is a 4 cyl with a odd looking bosch type VE pump.....series one freelander ?
I found the primer bulb under the LHS mud guge in the engine bay and bleed the fuel filter and the small bleeder on the injector pump.
I cracked one injector line fitting and tried to start it.
The injector had fuel sqirting out from under the fitting OK , but no fuel injection or running on the other cylinders
The lift pump where ever it is appears not to be working and the motor will not run with the fuel being hand primed either.
It will kick with a bit of areo start near the air cleaner.
With the ignition on there is a buzzing noise in the engine bay above the gearbox and towards the electrical panel.
What is the fuel system set up with these things and what is the most likely problem with it.
I quized the plant mechanic about the work on the head gasket.
A number three dot gasket was replaced with a three dot gasket.
The head was shaved .
The glow plugs were replaced and that required removal of the injection pump for no 4 glow plug access.
The mechanic didnt know anything about timing marks or pins.
He loosen the tapper on the drive spocket on the injection pump and lined everything up again using the marks in the timing belt casing ?
I checked the power supply to the stop soleniod on the injection pump and that appeared OK.
This is not my job.......but if the plant mechanic bloke cannot get it sorted it will most likely becomes mine.
regards Ron

[101 Ron]

What is the timing proceedure with the pump if the taper to the spocket has been loosened off.
The whole set up reminds me of my TDI 300 defender a bit.
I am guessing you would need timing pins in the flywheel and pump spocket.
Dail guage on the injection pump?...........whats the go in doing this.
Ron

[woko]

ron
its 1mm lift TDC 1. you will need a dial gauge to set this. there are timing pins for crank and pump cam has a mark

[101RRS]

Ron,

This is the same as my Freelander - I have a Rave and Haynes manual and can supply some information if you need it.

There is no lift pump - it is the suction from the bulb initially lifts the fuel to the injection pump and then the sealed plumbing that keeps the fuel up to the inj pump.

Junosi is the expert on getting these to go from scratch - here are some of his threads
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/freelander/75739-1999-xedi-tank-fuel-pump-alternative.html
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/freelander/75862-fuel-injection-pump-1999-2-0-xedi.html
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/freelander/76198-xedi-injector-pop-pressure.html
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/freelander/79637-replacement-fuel-injection-pump-alive.html
See some answers below



The motor is a 4 cyl (L series Diesel)
with a odd looking bosch type VE pump (a common pump fitted to many small european diesels).....series one freelander ?
I found the primer bulb under the LHS mud guge in the engine bay and bleed the fuel filter and the small bleeder on the injector pump. (To bleed prime the system - open valve at top of filter and pump bulb until fuel free of air comes out the filter valve. Keeping the bulb squeezed close filter valve. TURN ON IGNITION and pump the fuel bulb until the bulb is hard. Stop pumping and turn off the ignition. Push accelerator to the floor and then attempt to start as normal - engine will take longer to start - run at a fast idle for a minute to purge any remaining air. If the engine still runs rough or is hard to start there may still be bair in the system - repeat purge bleed process)
I cracked one injector line fitting and tried to start it.
The injector had fuel sqirting out from under the fitting OK , but no fuel injection or running on the other cylinders (no ideas)
The lift pump where ever it is appears not to be working and the motor will not run with the fuel being hand primed either. (no lift pump in this model)
It will kick with a bit of areo start near the air cleaner.
With the ignition on there is a buzzing noise in the engine bay above the gearbox and towards the electrical panel. (This is normal and is one of the ECU sensors)
What is the fuel system set up with these things and what is the most likely problem with it. (System not bled and primed in accordance with the above - or the fuel shutoff valve is not working - it is on the drivers side of the injection pump - just screws out - don't loose bits - is the check engine light on - read codes - Bosch diagnostics can do it better than Landrover stuff - seeing the head was removed - injection pump timing may be out) - also the wiring harness can play up so make sure all the connectors are connecting)
I quized the plant mechanic about the work on the head gasket.
A number three dot gasket was replaced with a three dot gasket.
The head was shaved .
The glow plugs were replaced and that required removal of the injection pump for no 4 glow plug access. (yes is a pain but as the engine is a good starter even in the cold it is this glow plug is often not changed)
The mechanic didnt know anything about timing marks or pins. (when the work was done, the crankshaft should have been pined as well as the cam shaft - there are holes for both of these- the injection pump also has a locking pin - was this used when it was removed.)
He loosen the tapper on the drive spocket on the injection pump and lined everything up again using the marks in the timing belt casing ? (he should have use the locking pins - maybe the pump is now out)
I checked the power supply to the stop soleniod on the injection pump and that appeared OK.
This is not my job.......but if the plant mechanic bloke cannot get it sorted it will most likely becomes mine. (I can scan any bits of the manuals if you need)
regards Ron

[101 Ron]

Thanks garry thats the sort of information I was after.
Dont know how the injection pump timing is done exactly with a dial guage.
I am guessing you measure the pump plunger lift by removing the plug at the rear of the pump in the middle or similar.
As i said earlier I know nothing about the freelanders and can only use common sense about the things which are model pacific.
I will end up with this job as I feel the plant mechanic and owner will not get it going as they know nothing about the freelanders too.
I love to learn new things and I know it makes me a better meachanic for it and I have learnt the internet is a fantastic source of missing information.

[101RRS]

I will have a look at the Haynes Manual and the Rave later tonight and let you know.

Garry

[101RRS]

I have ha a look at both manuals and both assume all the pins are put in place when the injection pump is removed and they are all in place when it is reinstalled. Nothing about the pump itself.

I am making an assumption here - but I assume the crank shaft pin locks the pistons in the correct position, the cam shaft lock does the same and then the pump lock also does the same - so when all locks are in the everything is aligned for the injection sequence. The process of installing and adjusting the pump requires the belt to be installed correctly for alignment to be maintained.

So if the head was removed - this means the timing belt was removed (Hope they put a new one in) - so are the cams shafts correctly aligned, likewise the injection pump belt was removed - so has this been installed correctly.

Certainly if the engine will fire on aerostart I guess the valves are times correctly. Because the mechanic did not use the pins I would be concerned about the timing overall. I would be putting in the pins ans seeing if they all fit and if any do not align taking things from there.

The injection pump is a Bosch VP37 and googling will show up a lot of information - be aware though there are different versions but have the same model number.

The ECU and the injection pump are all Bosch as is its programming (not Landrover) as such Bosch diagnostics can test and control the pump separate to the ECU. So the car does not need to go onto a Landrover system to be tested.

Cheers

Garry

[woko]

Ron
to adjust pump after tapered sprocket is removed. You will need the Crank locking pin I can get a measurement of it you should be able to use a piece of rod to do this, I know some one with the service tools.
The Cam has a mark to line it up on the sprocket and doesn't have pins. The mark is on number 1 side of engine as these have 2 timing belts.
You will have to remove the plunger lift plug at the rear in the middle of the injector lines you will need to make a rod to go into the back of the injector pump and mount a dial gauge and adjust it to 1mm lift on number 1. The easiest way to set sprocket close to number 1 before you do measurement is to remove it. you will see that the pump has a key way but the sprocket doesn't a key way mark is usually left in the sprocket line it up went you want to refit.
I can give all the Rave info on removing pump and fitting timing belts. but they do not show how to set pump up after sprocket is removed with out the pump lock fitted.
To lock the pump before sprocket removed there is a bolt near the mounting studs at the front of pump. you loosen this bolt and remove spacer clamp behind it and tighten the bolt to 31Nm.
Any more questions please ask I have done this job a few times as I worked for a dealer

[101 Ron]

Thanks Woko.
I did end up with this job today and left for work before your last post.
I really needed the information.
The customer rang up and asked if I could look at the freelander.
( my normal line of work is forklifts)
I love learning new things so I checked it out.
I found the pump spocket pin hole and a 3/8 bolt fits no problem.
I double checked and the head work carried out involved removing the injector pump and all timing was carried out by texta marks onn the belts and housings........the prevoius mechanic had no knowleage of the pins or timing marks.
Looking around the bell housing I found no timing or TDC marks or plugs for timing pins and the same for the spocket driving the pump belt on the end of the cam shaft.
The timing belt cover was not removed as it was hard to access and asked the previous mechanic about timing marks of pin hole on this side of the motor and he said there was none.
I did find a small notch mark on the camshaft pump drive spocket which lined up with the bolt hole for the plastic belt cover bolt hole at the rear of the motor near TDC.
What was done.
After some information found on the web last night I learnt the pump has a mark at the 11 o clock position on the nose of the pump behind the spocket.
That mark was lined up with the unused key way on the shaft.
To lock that up accurately on the spocket was difficult as I couldnt find a way to lock the pump while doing up the nut for the spocket.
There is also a bit of lee way of what up think is the middle of the key way.
I was set so I could feel the cam in the pump start to come up against the piston.
The next problem was to check crankshaft timing to camshaft timing to pump timing in that order.
As I couldnt find a TDC/ timing pin hole or mark for the crank shaft I used apiece of wire down No 1 injector hole after removing the injector and found TDC that way.

[101 Ron]

As the rocker cover was still on I had no way of checking valve timing.
I ended up getting the thing to just run and no more........the timing is way off.
I also noted the there was no current going to the glow plugs when the igition was first turned on.....but the plug indicator light would work on the dash board.
So I have found the problem is the timing of crank/cam and pump has completely lost.
I need to know the location of the crank timing pin hole.

I need to know location of cam shaft timing mark.

Wokos last post has given me a idea of how the pump should be locked to find the correct position on the drive spocket taper.

A dial guage would be extremely difficult to fit and use while the pump is on the motor.............I am guessing you set it up on the bench and then lock it and then fit to motor and then pin the spocket and tighten the nut for the spocket.
Any further information on the exact location of the locking set up for the pump would be helpful
Regards Ron

[101RRS]

Ron,

When I did my injector pump belt and timing belt a few years ago - I never found the crankshaft locking hole. Similar questions have been asked on the UK Freelander forums without a satisfactory answer being provided.

Before pulling the bits off I aligned the engine up so the camshaft marks all lined up and then marked the crankshaft so if it did move during the work all would be OK. The camshaft marks are inside the timing belt cover. I do not see how head work was done and not remove the timing belt cover and indeed the belt - is a real pain in the a.

I will scan in some of the relevant pages of the Haynes manual which is a bit more user friendly than the RAVE and e-mail to you - unfortunately the pictures do not normally scan well but you will be able to read the text.

I will send them to your private e-mail later tonight - you will have them when you get up in the morning.

Garry

[woko]

Ron
The cam shaft timing mark is on the front pulley on cam shaft. you will have to remove the top cover off belt. there is a damper on this pulley which is marked but can go on three ways it is best to remove and then you will see the cam pulley mark.
The timing pin hole for crank shaft is in a mongrel of a spot it is between the IRD and block. I will get a measurement of the crank timing pin and send

[woko]

19346
Heres a page from rave it shows cam shaft mark and crank timing pin

[101 Ron]

Thanks Garry and Woko.
I got Garrys emails and everything I need is there.
I should be able to get it sorted , or help the other mech to sort it.
You guys are life savers.

[woko]

the crank locking pin is 6.7mm diameter and 45mm long. the pump locking pin is the same size as a 300TDI so a 3/8 bolt will work fine

[101RRS]

The timing pin hole for crank shaft is in a mongrel of a spot it is between the IRD and block.

Even with pictures of the hole with the pin in, I never found the hole when I did my timing belt a few years ago. Likewise there is plenty of discussion on UK Freelander forums on this. Even when I had my IRD out I could not find it. Is there a rubber plug or something that hides it. I was beginning to think that this hole was a bit of a myth.

I am only 1500km away from doing my belts again and am really not looking forward to doing them. I will also change the clutch and clutch hydraulics as well as pulling all the induction/intercooler gear out to clean it all up - is really sludged up at present with 260,000km of gunk.

When I did my belts last time I could not lock the crankshaft so had to go very carefully and make sure the crank did not move which it didn't - marked it pretty well but is not right way to do things.

Suppose I will find other things as I go along - like oil leaks.

Garry

[woko]

its there you cant get your hand to it you have to use long nose pliers. there is no plug in it. Id take a photo pointing to it but sorry dont have a L series to show you

[101 Ron]

The story so far is its running.
Found the crank locating pin hole.
It is located from underneath the motor in between the block and diff/gearbox assy.
I had no luck using long nose pliers to fit the pin.
I ended up using a magnetic pick up tool to get the pin in the hole and then use a brake adjuster tool ( because its curved) on the end of the pin to push the pin in while the crank was turned by hand until it all locked by the pin dropping in to the hole on the flywheel.
THEY DIDNT MAKE IT EASY !
Getting the two lower bolts from the upper timing belt cover as fun too and they just will not be going back.
Cam mark was straight forward.
Pump drive belt belt is simple if you know how it is set up and as is the pump timing and timing locking bolt on the pump.
Naturally the pump was not removed to place a dial gauge on it and I guessimated the position by the feel of the injection pump working on the start of the internal plunger ramp.
This was backed up the 11 o clock mark on the pump nose housing and the unused key way.
So far so good.
The other mechanic will finish the thing off and the proof will be in the driving.
Thanks for the information as without any knowledge of vehicle it becomes extremely hard.

[101 Ron]

The crank timing pin is nothing special, just a old 1/4 bolt and the injection pump spocket is just a 3/8 bolt.
Regards