Surging TD5

[strangy]

A little direction please from those in the know.

My Disco now has a TRS ECU upgrade and I am happy with the results.....but I have a surging issue between 1700 and 1850 rpm.

This happens in any gear hot or cold. I have hooked up the Nanocom with no faults logged and no odd indications. AFM readings ok, cleaned all the plugs on AFM, temp sensor,CPS and modulator valve. My loom has been replaced and the EGR is gone.
I never had this before the ECU swap.

It feels as if the boost is coming on and off randomly, not huge lurching , but noticeable. Before 1700 and after 1850 all is smooth. If I am just powering through that range it is not there, only when working within this.

I have spoken with TRS and they believe the problem is likely my vehicle, though have offered to test the ECU if I remove it and ship it back. I would like to be sure it is the ECU before I do this.

Any Ideas?

[Redback]

A little direction please from those in the know.

My Disco now has a TRS ECU upgrade and I am happy with the results.....but I have a surging issue between 1700 and 1850 rpm.

This happens in any gear hot or cold. I have hooked up the Nanocom with no faults logged and no odd indications. AFM readings ok, cleaned all the plugs on AFM, temp sensor,CPS and modulator valve. My loom has been replaced and the EGR is gone.
I never had this before the ECU swap.

It feels as if the boost is coming on and off randomly, not huge lurching , but noticeable. Before 1700 and after 1850 all is smooth. If I am just powering through that range it is not there, only when working within this.

I have spoken with TRS and they believe the problem is likely my vehicle, though have offered to test the ECU if I remove it and ship it back. I would like to be sure it is the ECU before I do this.

Any Ideas?

If it's a non-flashable ECU chip you have then this is what they do, it's only a slight surge but it's enough to annoy the crap out of you.

When off road and in low range mine has a sudden burst of power like someone has jabbed the throttle, which is very annoying, especially when trying to crawl through tight rocky sections:twisted:

Mine is a Bruce Davis chip.

Baz.

[strangy]

If it's a non-flashable ECU chip you have then this is what they do, it's only a slight surge but it's enough to annoy the crap out of you.

When off road and in low range mine has a sudden burst of power like someone has jabbed the throttle, which is very annoying, especially when trying to crawl through tight rocky sections:twisted:

Mine is a Bruce Davis chip.

Baz.

Yes, Non Flashable. 2000 model Manual

[strangy]

You know I just realised I havent been in low range yet wih this. If it is worse as you say, I might ditch it. I dont need a sudden kick in Low with some places we visit.:confused::confused:

[discodancer]

If it's a non-flashable ECU chip you have then this is what they do, it's only a slight surge but it's enough to annoy the crap out of you.

When off road and in low range mine has a sudden burst of power like someone has jabbed the throttle, which is very annoying, especially when trying to crawl through tight rocky sections:twisted:

Mine is a Bruce Davis chip.

Baz.


I have a D2 2000 Auto.( purchased new ) which I thought had a non flashable chip as standard?
I had a dealer (Ritters, Melbourne) do a changeover ECU with a Bruce Davis chip a few years ago ( pre-Tombie option?) and it is fantastic.
I cannot pick up any signs of surging at any rev band ..'though work circumstances have prevented me from holidays and low-range stuff.

I assume the changeover ECU therefore gave me a flashable chip..... with the Davis imprint??

Do the ECU casings have a model number or similar stamped on them to tell whether they are Flashable etc??
How do you ID the ECU?

You could probably spend a lot of dollars at a mechanic trying to have stuff sorted vs. re-flashing for a fixed price..with a known stable program.
Maybe even borrow an ECU from another vehicle?

I guess it would either fix the problem or eliminate the ECU/Flash as the culprit.

Cheers
Bob

[LandyAndy]

Hi Strangy
I recently fitted a flashable ecu with an autologic upgrade to my 99 D2.
Ive noticed a distinct surge at higher revs with no load,ie 3rd gear 2500rpm with little right foot.Stomp the pedal and its cured:twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:It almost seems when the surge happens that the ECU wants to GO GO GO GADGET but the loud pedal says NO I DONT NEED TOO JUST YET!!!!
Havent used low range,hope I dont get Redbacks issue!!!!
PS,I can get the TC to work on dry bitumen with 235/85 MTRs:twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:
Andrew

[strangy]

[QUOTE

You could probably spend a lot of dollars at a mechanic trying to have stuff sorted vs. re-flashing for a fixed price..with a known stable program.
Maybe even borrow an ECU from another vehicle?

I guess it would either fix the problem or eliminate the ECU/Flash as the culprit.

Cheers
Bob[/QUOTE]

My sons 99 D2 has the same ECU from TRS so Ill be snatching that from him this weekend and checking his in mine and vice-versa.

For thre extra kick in the tail I can live with it on road, though having just been out in low range for a play, I think it will annoy me after a while.
(correct me if I am being unreasonable) if the surging is inherent (as Baz said) with non flashable upgrades and unable to be resolved, then purchasers should be warned by the seller of the issue with the upgrade.

[Graeme]

My sons 99 D2 has the same ECU from TRS so Ill be snatching that from him this weekend and checking his in mine and vice-versa.
Not a good idea because the injector codes are in all probability different so the engines wont run smoothly anyway thus proving nothing.

[Narangga]

Similar surging when doing 40kph in third gear past the schools in town. Noticed it first after the TRS chip upgrade and thought maybe the bigger intercooler may help.

Upgraded intercooler and that did help but surging still there - only noticable at constant roadspeed.

Too close to meal time for me to double check the revs so will do so tomorrow.

Off road seems ok but have only done so with the camper in tow.

[bronson]

Hi Guys,

Its funny that I just read this, I have a 99 td5 manual that also has a TRS ECU in it. I noticed the slight shudder at take off from stationary, and it also has a slight surge if you want to call it where it takes off if you are trying to get around this shudder. Feels like a two stroke that has just hit power band:mad: not good!!!!!!
Does anyone think that there could well be a slight problem with thes TRS ECU'S??????
I am also in the process of replacing the injector harness, as this I have found that it makes it worse, when there is oil at the red ECU plug.



Is there a way to over come this problem once we have purchased these ecu units?????:(


Has anyone also found that the fuel economy has gone through the roof??

[strangy]

Not a good idea because the injector codes are in all probability different so the engines wont run smoothly anyway thus proving nothing.


No problem Nanocom will sort all that.



Interesting to read some of the other comments on the TRS ECU (though the surging does not seem isolated to any particular programmer/ supplier). also the bigger IC, which is on the to do list.

.

[strangy]

Hi Guys,

Its funny that I just read this, I have a 99 td5 manual that also has a TRS ECU in it. I noticed the slight shudder at take off from stationary, and it also has a slight surge if you want to call it where it takes off if you are trying to get around this shudder. Feels like a two stroke that has just hit power band:mad: not good!!!!!!
Does anyone think that there could well be a slight problem with thes TRS ECU'S??????
I am also in the process of replacing the injector harness, as this I have found that it makes it worse, when there is oil at the red ECU plug.



Is there a way to over come this problem once we have purchased these ecu units?????:(


Has anyone also found that the fuel economy has gone through the roof??

There may be a problem in the map, BUT, I really want to make sure its not at my end before I start asking for some changes.
My fuel consumption has always been good, but now has improved even more.

My understanding about fixing this (if it is the ECU map) is no chance unless the map is modified/fixed by the programmer. I cant see how a flashable unit with the same map will change anything.

[Redback]

There may be a problem in the map, BUT, I really want to make sure its not at my end before I start asking for some changes.
My fuel consumption has always been good, but now has improved even more.

My understanding about fixing this (if it is the ECU map) is no chance unless the map is modified/fixed by the programmer. I cant see how a flashable unit with the same map will change anything.

OK just a bit more on my BD chip, the chip I have is not available anymore, so BDavis told me last we spoke, my chip is in between the mild and wild chip, I would imagine he has stopped doing it because of the problems it causes with the sudden surge it creates in low range.

Now as far as I know, Ritters and TRS non-flashable chips are done by BDavis, of cause I could be wrong;)

Baz.

[discowhite]

i have a tombie upgrade in an auto D2a..the only surging i get is between 105kph and 108kph, its only minor and its due to the change over point for the fuel maps. after a few weeks the auto has relearnt the shift patterns. appartently the D2 auto is intelligent in this way. i no longer have this issue.



No problem Nanocom will sort all that.


only if its a flashable ECU, NNN prefix only.

cheers phil

[Narangga]

Similar surging when doing 40kph in third gear past the schools in town. Noticed it first after the TRS chip upgrade and thought maybe the bigger intercooler may help.

Upgraded intercooler and that did help but surging still there - only noticable at constant roadspeed.

Too close to meal time for me to double check the revs so will do so tomorrow.

Off road seems ok but have only done so with the camper in tow.

Checked around town today and the surging is there in 1st, 2nd & 3rd in the 1700-1850 rpm range. Not noticable in 4th and didn't try 5th.

As I said it is definitely less since the intercooler upgrade.




Now as far as I know, Ritters and TRS non-flashable chips are done by BDavis, of cause I could be wrong;)

Baz.

TRS got mine on a Monday morning and I had it back on the Wed Express Post so I would say they do their own. It was the original ECU according to the serial number.

[strangy]

Sorry double post.

[strangy]

Checked around town today and the surging is there in 1st, 2nd & 3rd in the 1700-1850 rpm range. Not noticable in 4th and didn't try 5th.

As I said it is definitely less since the intercooler upgrade.



TRS got mine on a Monday morning and I had it back on the Wed Express Post so I would say they do their own. It was the original ECU according to the serial number.

thanks. TRS said it was their own map and equipment for the upgrades.

Thanks for checking your RPMs. Sounds vitually same as mine.

Did you get the TRS intercooler or a Tombie job?

[Narangga]

TRS. And I replaced the hoses with silicon hoses when we changed the intercooler.

Having checked the 1700-1850 range today it feels like the turbo is trying to engage or kick in.

In 1st, 2nd or 3rd if you put the pedal down at 1700 it takes off almost immediately with no lag.

I find it annoying but maily because 1750 in 3rd is 40kph past the schools!

[Tombie]

thanks. TRS said it was their own map and equipment for the upgrades.

Thanks for checking your RPMs. Sounds vitually same as mine.

Did you get the TRS intercooler or a Tombie job?

TRS and Tombie Intercoolers are both made here....

www.aseturbo.com.au (http://www.aseturbo.com/html/4wd_performance_accessories.html)

:cool:

[Narangga]

TRS and Tombie Intercoolers are both made here....

www.aseturbo.com.au (http://www.aseturbo.com/html/4wd_performance_accessories.html)

:cool:

Thanks for that. :)

[George130]

Hope you get it sorted.
THe only surging I used to get was at take off. Nothing till it hit 3,000rpm then all at once. It was funny in traffic at the lights when there would be nthing behind me and 15 cars in the riht hand lane. I wold be through th intersection before the fst car had fully crossed the line:twisted:.
Having the TC changed fro a 3000 rpm stall sorted that out but it's stll quick.
have a BD chip somewhere from wild to insane???

[Redback]

I solved my surging problem yesterday, installed the flashable ECU and standard mapping, what a difference, instant throttle response, no smoke, smooth acceleration right through the rev range AND not all that much drop in power over my BDavis chipped non-flashable ECU:eek:

Can't wait for the upgrade from Tombies full bore chip:banana:

[Narangga]

I solved my surging problem yesterday, installed the flashable ECU and standard mapping, what a difference, instant throttle response, no smoke, smooth acceleration right through the rev range AND not all that much drop in power over my BDavis chipped non-flashable ECU:eek:

Can't wait for the upgrade from Tombies full bore chip:banana:

The surging is only when holding a particular rpm. Even with gentlest of acceleration through the range (1700-1850) then it is not evident.

If you hold 1700 in third and then plant your foot the response is immediate but gets better at around 1900 rpm and then there is a kick around 24-2600 as well. However overall the repsonse is quite smooth right through until 4000.

Just for info.

[Redback]

The surging is only when holding a particular rpm. Even with gentlest of acceleration through the range (1700-1850) then it is not evident.

If you hold 1700 in third and then plant your foot the response is immediate but gets better at around 1900 rpm and then there is a kick around 24-2600 as well. However overall the repsonse is quite smooth right through until 4000.

Just for info.

I think part of my problem with my surging was it was early in the development of the B Davis chip, also I think that this will happen with altering the fuel map of the standard ECU.

For the moment mine is good now, it will be interesting to see if I get surging from Tombies upgrade.

Baz.

[scott oz]

21001 TD5 Defender

Life is strange. I wasn’t going to read this post as I didn’t see it as an issue for me.

However on Saturday I moved with the help of Daniel (I watched he did) the electrics from under the drivers seat to the Ozexplor “electronics” box under the cubby box.

In the process we found that I had the “oil in the loom” documented issue. I was amazed at how much gets down there. So we agave the connections a quick clean. Degreaser and then some electrical contact spray.

Anyhow I’ve noticed now that “sometimes” (two out of five times) when I put her in natural to coast to a stop or roll down the small decline the engine gives a couple of “blurts”. I’d say about 200RPM’s then just idles normally.

I’ve never noticed it before and it doesn’t pick up on the TACO and it doesn’t do it all the time. If you were in gear I’m not sure you’d even detect it.

I’ve got an auto logic upgrade but am wondering if this is the same issue as this tread or is likely to be related to the oil in the loom problem?

[Rudolf]

If it's a non-flashable ECU chip you have then this is what they do, it's only a slight surge but it's enough to annoy the crap out of you.

When off road and in low range mine has a sudden burst of power like someone has jabbed the throttle, which is very annoying, especially when trying to crawl through tight rocky sections:twisted:

Mine is a Bruce Davis chip.

Baz.
Hi Baz
Mine has no mods but the surge is more severe than a tab on the throttle.
It really kicks one in the back.

[strangy]

Well, after a few crazy shifts , I have tried the ECU swap with my sons D2.
Same issue with either ECU.

His always seemed a little less (fractional) which I put down to his bigger tyres. But there just the same.:confused:

Intersetingly he just replaced his fuel regulator today (the change of O rings a few months ago didnt stop the leak) and reckons the reg. has smoothed it all out. I have to take it for a drive later and see for myself.

The surge is most noticeable with trailing throttle.

I will be going the bigger intercooler and if it reduces the surge by 50% as in Stuu's case, I will be able to live with it, because every other aspect is great.


In the mean time, just to make things fun, Ive found coolant pushing past the cap after working it hard and have sneaky feeling that my head gasket is leaking under load. :(

[strangy]

Just did the test drive in the boys D2 with a new fuel reg.

No change with the surge in the RPM band.