Recovery Hooks - Tow Hooks

[101RRS]

In the longer term I have plans to put in decent recovery points on my 101. However in the interim I intend to just use the front spring hangers and the rear towing plate.

However as I have a trip in a few weeks where snatching will most likely required I thought I would put one the front one of those cheap recovery hooks that are available at most 4wd shops.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/tow-hook-1.jpg

Most are "supposedly" rated around 4500 - 5000kg and the rest of my recovery gear has similar ratings.

However I noticed that most sellers no longer are referring to these as recovery hooks but as tow hooks which concerns me a bit.

Is anyone using these hooks and have they stood up to snatching.

Yes, I can get better recovery points but these are cheap and easily sourced locally - and are just an interim measure as recovery points will be included in other work I am going to do to the front of my truck.

Thanks

Garry

[Rudolf]

See my thread here for these onto the rear of a D2.
The front I am still working on to get a good solution.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/88091-d2-rear-recovery-points-hi-lift-tubes.html

These hooks are std on some of the Toyota's.
I never plan to use only one hook when doing a recovery but both hooks together with a bridle strap.
The connectyion to these will be with schackles and the bridle to kinetic strap will be strap on strap.
Thus when something goes wrong you would not have a projectile comming at you but only the kinetic strap.

[d2dave]

See my thread here for these onto the rear of a D2.
The front I am still working on to get a good solution.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/88091-d2-rear-recovery-points-hi-lift-tubes.html

These hooks are std on some of the Toyota's.
I never plan to use only one hook when doing a recovery but both hooks together with a bridle strap.
The connectyion to these will be with schackles and the bridle to kinetic strap will be strap on strap.
Thus when something goes wrong you would not have a projectile comming at you but only the kinetic strap.


What do you use for the bridle, a tree trunk protector or is there a specific item for this?

Dave.

[spudboy]

I've got 2 on the front of my D1 and 2 on my Puma.

The D1 has done a lot of snatching, no problems, but I try and split the load over both hooks if it a big snatch (just use a tree protector hooked straight on to the hooks)

Not sure how they'd go with a 101 - that's a fair bit more weight....

[101RRS]

I've got 2 on the front of my D1 and 2 on my Puma.

The D1 has done a lot of snatching, no problems, but I try and split the load over both hooks if it a big snatch (just use a tree protector hooked straight on to the hooks)

Not sure how they'd go with a 101 - that's a fair bit more weight....

Thanks - while a 101 has a 1.5 tonne load carrying capacity, empty it is slightly lighter than a Disco 1. So for normal everyday type 4wding it will weight about the same as a disco.

Garry

[Kam Diff Nige]

Greetings for the UK, and from someone who pet hate is poor recovery points as I do a lot of marshalling / recovery

Key points are

10,000 is not enough IMHO - your snatch block is 20,000 ???
Anything open is prone to having things come off, closed is better
Use only tested shackles and big ones too
If things part company death or severe injury is a possiblity
esp if there is a large lump of metal on the end of the wire / hook / strop
Any recovery point is only as strong as its fixings

As such I have closed loop waaaay OTT 20mm solid rod heated with Oxt / Acet bent round home made former, then drill holes through winch bumper and then weld hoops on the outside along the inside into the winch system and use 12.9 Ton HD bolts and load of them to secure the winch bumper (homemade 8 / 10mm) nothing can come off, and even things like Jate rings and the swivelly hook type thing make me nervious as I have seen crossmembers / bumpers deform etc partly due to poor seign, partly that these are just 1 bolt being tuigged on and also due to no spreader plate on the backs, spreader plated are essential IMHO

Hope the above helps, what ever you go for don't scrimp

Nige

[Dougal]

Greetings for the UK, and from someone who pet hate is poor recovery points as I do a lot of marshalling / recovery

Key points are

10,000 is not enough IMHO - your snatch block is 20,000 ???
Anything open is prone to having things come off, closed is better
Use only tested shackles and big ones too
If things part company death or severe injury is a possiblity
esp if there is a large lump of metal on the end of the wire / hook / strop
Any recovery point is only as strong as its fixings

As such I have closed loop waaaay OTT 20mm solid rod heated with Oxt / Acet bent round home made former, then drill holes through winch bumper and then weld hoops on the outside along the inside into the winch system and use 12.9 Ton HD bolts and load of them to secure the winch bumper (homemade 8 / 10mm) nothing can come off, and even things like Jate rings and the swivelly hook type thing make me nervious as I have seen crossmembers / bumpers deform etc partly due to poor seign, partly that these are just 1 bolt being tuigged on and also due to no spreader plate on the backs, spreader plated are essential IMHO

Hope the above helps, what ever you go for don't scrimp

Nige

Do you have big crush tubes in your chassis?
Spreading the load from a bumper or recovery point to the thin walled landrover chassis is the hard part.

[Tank]

A few rigging facts.
1. Do not use shackles (unless there is no alternative), use a LONG bridle strap and keep the angle between the 2 eyes as low as possible.
2. hook each eye onto the 2 chassis hooks after passing the bridle strap through the eye of the snatch strap, no shackles needed.
3. A bridle strap's strength is not increased by putting each eye on a recovery point on each side of the chassis.
4. A bridle strap should be as long as possible to reduce the angle between the eyes, a bridle strap which is too short can create dangerous loads on the strap,e.g. a 45 degree angle will halve the capacity of the strap, 90 degrees will DOUBLE the load being snatched.
5. If you use shackles they should be attached to recovery points that have a VERTICAL eye, shackles are NOT designed to be pulled at an angle (sideways)
6. COMMONSENSE is your friend, dont have anyone in the back (or front, except driver) of the tow car, keep spectators well away.
Regards Frank.

[101RRS]

So getting back to the 4500kg/10,000lb recovery/tow hooks - other than Rudolf and Spudboy - any one actually using these. I am tempted to get two from Supercrap and mount each one on my front spring hangers with crush tubes and use the tree protector as a bridle.

Cheers

Garry

[spudboy]

Yep - see post 4 above.

D1 - used them on this for over 10 years.
Puma - only had them for 1 year, but no problems

[101RRS]

Yep - see post 4 above.

D1 - used them on this for over 10 years.
Puma - only had them for 1 year, but no problems


Ooops sorry - thanks - last post edited.

Garry

[Dougal]

So getting back to the 4500kg/10,000lb recovery/tow hooks - other than Rudolf and Spudboy - any one actually using these. I am tempted to get two from Supercrap and mount each one on my front spring hangers with crush tubes and use the tree protector as a bridle.

Cheers

Garry

Yes I have one bolted to the front. There's no way I'd give it 4,500kg worth, but it's better than the factory towing loop I've seen used.:eek:

[windsock]

So getting back to the 4500kg/10,000lb recovery/tow hooks - other than Rudolf and Spudboy - any one actually using these. I am tempted to get two from Supercrap and mount each one on my front spring hangers with crush tubes and use the tree protector as a bridle.

Cheers

Garry

Yes, on an old 110. One on the rear chassis frame where the tow ball draw bar would be bolted. And I used to have two on the front custom bar. Now I have changed this I am yet to fit them back on. All three used in the past with no problems.

Cheers,

Phil

[numpty]

Bushie uses 2 of these on the front of his Defender and I had 2 on the front of my old Stage 1. Also never had a problem with them.

[Bushie]

2 hooks yes, but they're off a 4WD Mitsubishi truck, got a couple more in the garage to fit somewhere.

Martyn

[Sleepy]

Bushie uses 2 of these on the front of his Defender and I had 2 on the front of my old Stage 1. Also never had a problem with them.

I have two on the S3 ! Was planning to use the tt-protector as a bridle - no shackles (a bit of tape can help if you're worried about them slipping off).

[51jay]

have one under the front of each chasis rail bolted right thru the rails with spacer tubes. only ever been used to pull the Rangie onto a tow truck or trailer

[101RRS]

So it looks as if two hooks with a bridle is the way to go. Thanks or all the replies.

Cheers

Garry

[101RRS]

So it looks as if two hooks with a bridle is the way to go.

Got the hooks and they will be going on my front spring hangers. I have been looking at the issue of bridles.

What do people suggest?? My snatch strap has a swl of 5t and a min breaking strain of 10t so I want my equipment to have similar load capabilities.

On the front the bridle will go over the two hooks but at the rear it will be going through a hole in the rear X member and will be subject to tight angles that may cut into something made out of fibre.

ARB have a nice plasma rope bridle but I assume it is expensive and I am not sure the rope has the abrasive resistance. People have suggested using a tree protector but it does not have the load capacity.

I was thinking of getting a short length of 10t rated chain securing it with rated shackles.

Open to suggestions but it does need to have a SWL of about 5t.

Thanks

Garry

[101 Ron]

Garry I think you got right the first time with using the front spring hangers.
I have nothing against the hooks pictured, as they were used for years on the front of toyotas and never gave problems.
On my 101 the front bull bar is bolted straight on the chassis at different points and is super strong and I will use that.
If I didn't have that I would use a strap from the front and around the back of both front spring hangers and then back onto itself.( to form a bridle)
The weak part of the above is not the hangers, but the sharp bends in the strap at the hangers.
My first choice in bridles is a chain or tree trunk protector.
A tree trunk protector usually has almost double the rating of most snatch straps and this makes up for increased loadings cause by working at a angle as a bridle.

[d2dave]

I was thinking of getting a short length of 10t rated chain securing it with rated shackles.

Open to suggestions but it does need to have a SWL of about 5t.

Thanks

Garry

Not an expert here by a long shot but makes good sense. If the chain is threaded through the snatch strap and the chain breaks I can assume that the only missile would be the strap as the two halves of chain would still be attached.

Feel free to debunk this if it is flawed as I too are looking for the best and safest way to snatch.

Dave.

[Davo]

For what it's worth, I've seen in a Land-Rover manual somewhere that the front spring hangers on leaf-sprung models should only be used for recovery in an emergency, and the chassis should be checked for alignment afterwards.

Of course, I can't remember where I read it, but it was from a factory publication.

[101 Ron]

If you use spring hangers ,you must use both, like I described
Doing a snatch recovery on one hanger or one recovery hook mounted on one side of the chassis can twist the chassis.
A light framed U channelled chassis vehicle like a War time jeep will twist the chassis easily if pulled without a bridle.
It is all common sense again and looking at the job in hand , the equiptment advailible and the possible loads required with vehicle design strong and weak points.

[101RRS]

If you use spring hangers ,you must use both, like I described
Doing a snatch recovery on one hanger or one recovery hook mounted on one side of the chassis can twist the chassis.
A light framed U channelled chassis vehicle like a War time jeep will twist the chassis easily if pulled without a bridle.
It is all common sense again and looking at the job in hand , the equiptment advailible and the possible loads required with vehicle design strong and weak points.

Putting on hook on the inside of each front spring hanger. Metal there is very thick and in a box section - will mount up near the chassis - crush tubes will not be required in this position (by the way - there are crush tubes in the front and rear X member fittings but I have not found any in fittings mounted to the chassis - the winch chassis pulley mountings do not have crush tubes).

The individual recovery hooks do not have a suitable rating (4500kg) to be used individually in a heavy snatch - hence the need for a bridle able to handle up to 10t - will never happen but that is what the snatch strap is rated to.

Rated chain would seem to give more options, particularly for the rear.

Garry

[Dougal]

Chain should never be used for snatching. Just don't do it.

Those little cast hooks also don't have the geometry needed to resist an angled pull, you're likely to rip the bolts out of the chassis.
Which is my next point. Without crush tubes they're not anchored well enough for recovery and will eventually slog the chassis holes.

Suitable crush tubes are around 30mm solid with a 13mm through hole. This is what's needed to take the clamping force of a grade 8.8 bolt torqued as it should be.

I think you're better fitting recovery eyes and using shackles than using those $20 hooks. The rating on those hooks is not to any standard I know of, I ran a FEA study on one and they're past yield with the stated load.
Compare that to shackles tested to BS3032 which have a minimum breaking load of 6 times their rated capacity.

[101RRS]

Chain should never be used for snatching. Just don't do it.

Why should rated chain (exceeding the strength of the snatch strap) not be used as a bridle when snatching with a snatch strap?

Garry

[Dougal]

Why should rated chain (exceeding the strength of the snatch strap) not be used as a bridle when snatching with a snatch strap?

Garry

Because there are better things to use with safer failure modes. Chain is best used for slow movements with known loads. Snatching isn't either of these.

Not to mention the idiots who see you using chain and copy your methods using not rated chain.

[Davo]

I think the minute snatch straps were made available there was going to be trouble.

"Hey - how about we use this giant stretchy thing between two multi-ton loads, and attach it to steel things of an unknown strength, and then one of us drives off at speed? What could possibly go wrong?"

They are one of those things that have to be done just right or suddenly the dangers become very bad very quickly.

Apparently they were first invented for bogged tanks, but that's a bit different to everyday domestic use. This is why I prefer winches because they (usually!) involve a nice steady load.


The rating on those hooks is not to any standard I know of, I ran a FEA study on one and they're past yield with the stated load.


Dougal, can you explain that a bit more? I was going to use a couple of those hooks as well, but since I made my own bullbar I've been toying with the idea of just making recovery points from heavy plate as well.

[Dougal]

Dougal, can you explain that a bit more? I was going to use a couple of those hooks as well, but since I made my own bullbar I've been toying with the idea of just making recovery points from heavy plate as well.

Here's a nice picture showing the stress in my recovery hook with a 4.5 T load applied to the inside of the hook. It's fixed at both bolt holes.
Basically unless these are made of kryptonite (they're not) they will start to bend and open up long before the load stamped in the side of them.

Basically they're very weak and should be treated as such. Capable of nowhere near the load that's stamped on them.
I have one of these on my vehicle and I'm okay with that. I know the limitations of it and use it appropriately.
The main thing is, that people know what they're dealing with.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/10/449.jpg

[101RRS]

I think the minute snatch straps were made available there was going to be trouble.

"Hey - how about we use this giant stretchy thing between two multi-ton loads, and attach it to steel things of an unknown strength, and then one of us drives off at speed? What could possibly go wrong?"

They are one of those things that have to be done just right or suddenly the dangers become very bad very quickly.

Like all our recovery equipment we have to know how to use these things correctly - dig out vehicle as much as possible - the snatch vehicle move slowly to slowly load up the snatch strap. The purpose of the tow vehicle is NOT to pull the vehicle out but to load up the strap and act as an anchor as the strap pulls the vehicle out. Any pulling my vehicle will be closely supervised to minimise stupidity.


Dougal, can you explain that a bit more? I was going to use a couple of those hooks as well, but since I made my own bullbar I've been toying with the idea of just making recovery points from heavy plate as well.

Where do we draw the line - most equipment we use does not specify the standard used - the hooks I have, have a rating of 10,000lb and are the items sold by ARB. I am the first to be critical of ARB but I do not believe that would falsify the rating on these hooks. It would just be nice to know whether that is swl or total max load.

People have responded to this thread that they have found them great if used within their design capabilities - ie use two with a bridle to share the load. One will be strong enough for most snatches but to be safe and to be sure the chassis is not damaged (applies to any recovery point) the installation of one on each chassis rail should be used.

Garry

[Davo]

A big thanks for that! I saw another of those pretty pictures on the "recovery-with-a-tow-pin" thread and forgot that was you.

I've got two of those hooks from years and years ago and they don't even have a rating stamped on them. It's also confusing when other people tell you that hooks are better so that you don't have shackles ready to break off and become missiles. However, I think that heavy steel plate is unlikely to break when a shackle pulls on it. Just so long as everything is made and used right.

I think that, yes, anything used within its capabilities is fine, and that, yes, you have to know what you're doing. I just tend to overdo the safety aspect as much as possible because I live in the middle of nowhere and people do some really loopy things, usually because of ignorance, lack of experience, lack of the right gear, and then there's my personal favourite: because when you're out here the usual rules don't seem to apply! :o

[Dougal]

Where do we draw the line - most equipment we use does not specify the standard used - the hooks I have, have a rating of 10,000lb and are the items sold by ARB. I am the first to be critical of ARB but I do not believe that would falsify the rating on these hooks. It would just be nice to know whether that is swl or total max load.

ARB, like everyone else selling them will have no idea. They come with the numbers cast into them. They go on the shelves and people buy them.



People have responded to this thread that they have found them great if used within their design capabilities - ie use two with a bridle to share the load. One will be strong enough for most snatches but to be safe and to be sure the chassis is not damaged (applies to any recovery point) the installation of one on each chassis rail should be used.

Garry

There is no way I'd put a bridle between these hooks. The side load they can take is a fraction of their direct pull load. Putting anything between them introduces a decent side load. Pulling at 30 degrees gives a side load that's half the line pull.

IMO it's much safer to pull directly on one hook. If you're concerned about chassis damage then you're already way past the limits of these hooks.

[Rudolf]

Here in RSA the drive for Unit Standards in 4x4 drinving is going on in full swing.
One criteria that does not form part of the requirements is snatch recoveries.
Pull straps and rpoes are on the approved list but Kinetic straps and ropes are not.
I can only imagione why but my feeling is that its too dangerous and open for a whole lot of discussions on what is proper anchoring points.
A lot of discussions are doing their round regerding recovery points.
In a lot of cases just a tow or pull would suffice but over eager peolple always want to snatch.
They would also rather snatch than just dig and tow the vehicle out.
Personally I would rather redesign my recovery points to a plate design out of 350WA plate or angle iron with yield of 350MPa.
I think I will do this anyway.

[Dougal]

Personally I would rather redesign my recovery points to a plate design out of 350WA plate or angle iron with yield of 350MPa.
I think I will do this anyway.

IMO it's better to use the softest material available. Mild steel with a yield of 200-250 MPa stretches a lot more before failure, allowing you to see damage to your recovery points before they fail.

I think failure mode is far more important than breaking load. Something which gives up gradually and slowly is far better than a fast fracture.