VANISHING INDUSTRIES AND NATIONAL SECURITY

[Bigbjorn]

Many of you may find this of interest. It is an extract from a presentation by a US Navy Admiral to a combined Pentagon/Congressional think tank.

"The Chinese government has taken a lesson from the U.S. economic defeat of the Soviet Union and has been for years engaged in a secret economic war against the United States. Economic warfare doesn't mean economic conflict. With a world economy, you can just as easily degrade a nation's ability to fight by luring its elements of national security, such as factories and mills, away to another country. What remans are service-related businesses that don't manufacture anything. It's hard to build weapons in a service economy."

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Wasn't that a comment by Emperor Hirahito in relation to Japan's national interest. That the Pacific War was merely a battle in which Japan would assume it's natural sphere of influence. After the battle there would an ecconomic war which may take 100 years. It seemed to take only about 50 years for Japan to become a creditor nation.

These days if China were to invade Australia, we would have to buy chinese made resources to fight the war with them, including strategic materials such as tyres and rubber automotive hoses as we no longer manufacture those items in Oz. Thanks Pacific Dunlop and Gates Rubber Company!

Diana

[JDNSW]

I doubt it is intentional - China has never been territorially aggressive except in its immediate neighbourhood, where it regards much of S.E. Asia (including Tibet) as straying provinces.

It is probably of interest to consider the situation that Australia found itself in in 1939. With no industrial base worth talking about, by 1945 Australia was manufacturing things that were considered impossible six years earlier - apart from obvious large items such as modern aircraft (and engines) and tanks, Australians were able to produce specialist items such as optical glass and slip guages starting from zero. Remembering that much of Australia's fledling industrial capacity had disappeared when steamers, the Suez Canal, and the telegraph robbed local manufacturers of things like steam engines of their advantages. With some exceptions, such as the protected car industry and government railway workshops, for the first third of twentieth century most manufactured goods were imported.

After the war, protection was ramped up to protect the wartime established industry, before starting to be wound back forty years later.

John

[Bigbjorn]

I doubt it is intentional - China has never been territorially aggressive except in its immediate neighbourhood, where it regards much of S.E. Asia (including Tibet) as straying provinces.

It is probably of interest to consider the situation that Australia found itself in in 1939. With no industrial base worth talking about, by 1945 Australia was manufacturing things that were considered impossible six years earlier - apart from obvious large items such as modern aircraft (and engines) and tanks, Australians were able to produce specialist items such as optical glass and slip guages starting from zero. Remembering that much of Australia's fledling industrial capacity had disappeared when steamers, the Suez Canal, and the telegraph robbed local manufacturers of things like steam engines of their advantages. With some exceptions, such as the protected car industry and government railway workshops, for the first third of twentieth century most manufactured goods were imported.

After the war, protection was ramped up to protect the wartime established industry, before starting to be wound back forty years later.

John

Not quite right, JD. There were substantial manufacturing industries in Australia before WWII. Even Queensland, where the economy was based on sugar, wool, wheat, beef, had large industrial operations, foundries, shipyards, heavy engineering, canneries, the state railway workshops. I can think of six firms in Brisbane that made internal combustion engines from small single cylinder units to quite substantial marine engines. There were others in Ipswich, Toowoomba, Maryborough and Cairns to my knowledge. Rapson & Dutton made diesel engines. Machine tools were made in Brisbane. I had an eight ton Mars lathe from the 1930's. Petrol bowsers were made in quantity in Brisbane. I note that almost none of these industries exist today.

During the war we were either cut off from our traditional suppliers or they were unable to supply us as well as their own needs. We had to turn around and make items here that would never have been except for the pressure cooker of war. BHP Whyalla and South Australian Railways made engineers cutting tools, taps and dies, etc. for the fledgling aircraft industry and for the USAAF. I have a collection of these. Sutton Bros. Die, Tool, and Gauge Room grew into Suttons Industries in this period.

[isuzurover]

Not quite right, JD.

Indeed. Take this for another example. An Australian engineering company designed and built the world's first 4x4 AND 4WS truck in 1907 - including an 11.25L engine designed and built from scratch.


CALDWELL VALE

The following is an extract from a feature in the TOMM magazine on the restoration of a Caldwell Vale by Reg Schuster. Link to TOMM The Old Machinery Magazine : Australian Machinery Magazine (http://www.tomm.com.au/)

The Caldwell Vale tractor/truck had its beginning in Adelaide 1907 when Felix and Norman Caldwell applied for a patent described as "four wheel drive, four wheel steering". In 1910 with Henry Vale a financier, heavy equipment and locomotive manufacturer they established Caldwell Vale Motor and Tractor Construction Company in Auburn, Sydney. Unfortunately due to financial problems the production of what was most likely the worlds most technically advanced tractor was ceased in 1916 when the company was taken over by Purcell Engineering.

Caldwell Vale TruckReg acquired his Caldwell Vale truck after a phone call stating that there was an unusual looking piece of machinery at a scrap metal merchant. He immediately recognised it to be two Caldwell Vale road trains. This was a major find which led Reg and friends to many months of extensive restoration work. For the complete and interesting story of this restoration process contact me or "The Old Machinery Magazine" on the above link. The photo on the right is the Caldwell Vale making its debut at the Rusty Iron Rally, NSW with Reg proudly seated at the wheel.

Caldwell Vale EngineThe tractors of 40 and 80 HP were also fitted with platform bodies for overland road train operations, the one Reg rebuilt being a fine example. I have not been able to get a photo of a tractor. It is believed that approx. 40-50 were built between 1910 and 1916, several were used in the construction of the city of Canberra, others were used by the Australian Pastoral Company in the Longreach area. The photo on the right shows Reg holding the Schebler carburettor beside his fully assembled engine. The 4 cylinder petrol engine developed 80hp at 800rpm, has a bore and stroke of 6in x 6in, 11.25 litre. The transmission has 3 forward, 1 reverse and gives the 9 ton truck a maximum speed of 10mph and a petrol consumption of 1 mile per gallon. The engine with the exception of the Schebler carburettor and the Simms magneto was built entirely by Caldwell Vale in their Auburn factory. It runs in constant 4 wheel drive and interestingly featured power steering, way before its time. Any photos or further information on the Caldwell Vale is always welcome

However, the original quote is a load of BS I am sure. While manufacturing of commodity items has moved to china, how many parts of high tech items like the space shuttle are made in china?

[boa]

I am not sure if it is still the case but when I worked at Ford I was told the production lines in Geelong were able to be turned to war production within 48 hours. All of the necessary dies etc could be up and running very quickly. Note I left Ford in 1995?. During WW2 Geelong production lines built various armoured vehicles.
I believe the Goverment would not let these companies fail for that very reason.

[drivesafe]

The week following the bombing of Pearl Harbour, Roosevelt asked congress for 4 billion dollars to fight the war. By the end of the war, the USA had spent 88 billion dollars ( thats 88 billions in 1945 values )

How much has congress shelled out so far in it’s bailout of the US economy?

We are not in the running when it comes to competing against the money China and the USA ( plus others ) have at there disposal.

What we can do is follow on from what Brian posted about, the making of specialised tools.

We can’t compete by trying to build ordinary everyday products on an unlevel playing field with countries like China and India, who having such cheap labour.

We can make good money making small run specialised goods, this is one area where we have the expertise and the tooling in place, all we need ( and it’s never likely to happen ) is private and government financing.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

... how many parts of high tech items like the space shuttle are made in china?I don't actually know although I do know that China has an active space programme and has put Chinese Astronauts into space in Chinese rockets launched from Chinese launch sites. So while they may not make parts for space shuttles, they do make manned spacecraft and the technology to launch and recover them. Space Today Online - Chinese astronauts called yuhangyuans fly in Shenzhou capsules (http://www.spacetoday.org/China/ChinaTaikonauts.html)

Diana

[THE BOOGER]

Dont underestimate the chinese or us for that matter we built the bushmasters here, sure they yanks could have built 20 X more but they would not be better infact the steel used here is better than what they were going to use and will stop more. We cant compete in production numbers but in small runs of high quality we can, i hope;)

[drivesafe]

We cant compete in production numbers but in small runs of high quality we can, i hope;)

I wish. The next generation of Sydney suburban trains are being made in China right now and once here, the state government will not own them but will be renting them.

Railway staff won’t be servicing them, they will be serviced by the owners of the trains, using contractors.

This is a backdoor approach to privatisation of the Sydney suburban rail system and it’s going to be owned and run by the Chinese.

[isuzurover]

I don't actually know although I do know that China has an active space programme and has put Chinese Astronauts into space in Chinese rockets launched from Chinese launch sites. So while they may not make parts for space shuttles, they do make manned spacecraft and the technology to launch and recover them. Space Today Online - Chinese astronauts called yuhangyuans fly in Shenzhou capsules (http://www.spacetoday.org/China/ChinaTaikonauts.html)

Diana

That is a completely different argument though. The chinese are, and always have been, far more capable than they are given credit for.

The Chinese invented:
Paper
printing
The banknote
gunpowder
the first bombs and rockets
the first land and naval mines
steelmaking

Not to mention that 60% or so of the food we eat originated in china - Anyone eat bread, pasta, rice or drink tea today?

[p38arover]

In 1965, when I started as a trainee technician with the Overseas Telecommunications Commission (trained by the Dept of Civil Aviation), we went on numerous "school" excursions to electronics manufacturing plants, e.g. IRH (International Resistor). AWA Semiconductor (Five Dock - near Bunnings (previously Peak Freans)) and valve manufacturing plants (Rydalmere), Philips Components (Rhodes), Thomas Electronics (CR Tubes), Ducon (capacitors), Rola (loudspeakers), etc.

Federal Govt. intervention has seen every one of those businesses close.

[JDNSW]

Not quite right, JD. There were substantial manufacturing industries in Australia before WWII. Even Queensland, where the economy was based on sugar, wool, wheat, beef, had large industrial operations, foundries, shipyards, heavy engineering, canneries, the state railway workshops. I can think of six firms in Brisbane that made internal combustion engines from small single cylinder units to quite substantial marine engines. There were others in Ipswich, Toowoomba, Maryborough and Cairns to my knowledge. Rapson & Dutton made diesel engines. Machine tools were made in Brisbane. I had an eight ton Mars lathe from the 1930's. Petrol bowsers were made in quantity in Brisbane. I note that almost none of these industries exist today.

During the war we were either cut off from our traditional suppliers or they were unable to supply us as well as their own needs. We had to turn around and make items here that would never have been except for the pressure cooker of war. BHP Whyalla and South Australian Railways made engineers cutting tools, taps and dies, etc. for the fledgling aircraft industry and for the USAAF. I have a collection of these. Sutton Bros. Die, Tool, and Gauge Room grew into Suttons Industries in this period.

Yes, I admit I was exaggerating, but my point is that under pressure of war, Australia managed to not only replace most imports, but to start entirely new (to Australia) high tech industries from scratch, in some cases in months. And I have no doubt that in an emergency it could be done again. A large part of it being possible was that just about everyone involved was really trying, not finding reasons why it could not be done.

John

[hodgo]

At 63 yrs of age I to have seen the lose of all these manufacturing plants close or go off shore, I am not going to re list what Brian has so well covered in his above post .
But as for being able to re establish them in a hurry I dont think so as we no longer have the trademen with the required skills / or knowledge .

Hodgo

[D110V8D]

Hodgo is right. We used to have the capability to produce almost anything we needed in this country but so many of the old trades and skills have been lost.
I know that the industry I'm involved in (if you could call it that) is dying a very slow death with most skilled glassblowers either nearing retirement age or have retired or have passed away. 3 have died in the last 12 months, 2 others who are excellent craftsment are in their 70's and still working.
In a country where there are probably around 20 to 30 skilled people left in this trade, this is a very scary thing. I have been informed by the scientific glassblowers society that I am the youngest scientific glassblower in the country. I'm 35 years old.

Recently there were talks with the government about trying to secure funding for small operators to train up younger people in this feild. The govt deemed it not worthwhile, meanwhile alot of the work is being sent over seas to countries like India and China, along with the knowledge.
The government could care less. I'm a sole trader and I work 12-14 hours a day at a minimum to keep up with demand. I dont have the time or money to train anyone up.

What does an industry like this do to solve the problem?

Very sad.

[JDNSW]

....But as for being able to re establish them in a hurry I dont think so as we no longer have the trademen with the required skills / or knowledge .

Hodgo

We were able to do it in WW2, expanding our manufacturing base enormously in only a year or two without significant import of overseas tradesmen. As an example, my father (a school teacher turned poultry farmer) was trained as a fitter and turner in about six months in 1942 and by 1945 was working as a toolmaker in an aircraft engine factory.

There is no reason that I am aware of why this sort of thing could not be duplicated again.

John

[drivesafe]

There is no reason that I am aware of why this sort of thing could not be duplicated again.

John

Actually there is a reason, it’s called money.

While I am sure if a long term national emergency occurred, we could develop the skills needed to meet our national needs, but to consider we would have a hope of doing this in the present climate of cheap imports is just not realistic.

Where are you going to find the capitol to develop these skills and more importantly, a market for products that are going to be much more expensive that the cheap imports?

[Bigbjorn]

The North American Free Trade Agreement caused the closure of many, many manufacturing plants in the USA, to be relocated just over the border in Mexico. Recent reports are that many of these Mexican ventures are now closed down. They found they can't sell their cheap goods to an unemployed American middle class whose jobs were exported.

[Ausfree]

I don't actually know although I do know that China has an active space programme and has put Chinese Astronauts into space in Chinese rockets launched from Chinese launch sites. So while they may not make parts for space shuttles, they do make manned spacecraft and the technology to launch and recover them. Space Today Online - Chinese astronauts called yuhangyuans fly in Shenzhou capsules (http://www.spacetoday.org/China/ChinaTaikonauts.html)

Diana
Correct me if I'm wrong but is'nt the chinese Shenzhou spacecraft just a modified copy of the Russian Soyuz spacecraft. I know it neither here nor there and the Chinese are making tremendous strides but they did not develop their space program from scratch.

They are also one of the worlds largest creditor nations and are very nervous about the amount of money owed to them by the good old US of A.:mellow::mellow:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Correct me if I'm wrong but is'nt the chinese Shenzhou spacecraft just a modified copy of the Russian Soyuz spacecraft. I know it neither here nor there and the Chinese are making tremendous strides but they did not develop their space program from scratch. ... <snip>That may be true, but my answer was to IsuzuRover's question.
... how many parts of high tech items like the space shuttle are made in china?Which makes the source of the design irrelevant, just the fact that the Chinese have the technology and the expertise to manufacture goods to an assumed standard of the space shuttle. Which coincidently, we know blows up on a semi-regular basis - "we Need Another Seven Astronauts (NASA)" ! :twisted:

[drivesafe]

The North American Free Trade Agreement caused the closure of many, many manufacturing plants in the USA, to be relocated just over the border in Mexico. Recent reports are that many of these Mexican ventures are now closed down. They found they can't sell their cheap goods to an unemployed American middle class whose jobs were exported.

Now that’s poetic justice, shame it doesn’t happen here.

Australians, in general, don’t seem to give a stuff that when they buy a foreign produced product over an Australian made product, they are sending our jobs overseas.

[Hoges]

part of the problem lies with warped economic policy which pays no heed to any strategic self sufficiency and believes that "the consumer" is entitled to the cheapest etc etc. stories abound re. the shortage of cooks and doctors for the East Timor intervention... well it had all been outsourced ! ... local bases staffed by noncombitants...

So called "competiton policy" in DMO selection processes have screwed over Australian capability for years... then the know how would be bought by US interests and sold back to us as a multiple of the price... :angrylock:
It's ironic that the USAF has extended the B52 life ...we could have done the same with the F-111... at a fraction of the price of the JSF...BUT who wants their shiny new toys eh? :wasntme:

And another thing: our national birthrate has declined over the past 30 years to such an extent that reputable studies are showing that it is unlikely we will recover... retraining is not the answer when you are just moving bodies from one job to another... we need more bodies... ...but that's a whole different argument for another place...

As for WWII ... google " Pig Iron Bob " and witness a history of poor Govt decisions...

Now, about those bushes and ball joints for the Rangie :D

[drivesafe]

As for WWII ... google " Pig Iron Bob " and witness a history of poor Govt decisions...

Don’t have to go that far back.

Blundstone shoes shut down their Tasmanian factory, sacked all the Australian workers and moved to the cheap labour in China.

So you would think we would boycott buying Blundstone shoes. Not the NSW government. the latest contract to supply safety boots to the Staterail has gone to Blundstone.

Now that's supporting the people that voted you in!

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Don’t have to go that far back.

Blundstone shoes shut down their Tasmanian factory, sacked all the Australian workers and moved to the cheap labour in China.

So you would think we would boycott buying Blundstone shoes. Not the NSW government. the latest contract to supply safety boots to the StateRail has gone to Blundstone.

Now that's supporting the people that voted you in!Well actually the Blundstone boots were not made in NSW so they may as well have been in China in the first place. The Blundstone boots made in China, probably cost less than the Blundstone boots made in Tasmania and they all have to meet the same standards, so that IS supporting the people that voted them in.

[JDNSW]

You can hardly blame either the government or the manufacturer - the blame rests squarely on those who buy the cheapest product (or best value anyway) and expect not to be taxed to subsidise local production.

One point where I believe the Australian government IS to blame is in their using interest rates as teh sole control on the economy. This results in interest rates higher than anywhere else, which leads to higher manufacturing costs and a higher valued dollar, making it more difficult for local manufacturers to either export or compete with imports.

John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Absolutely John, I can't agree with you more about hidden costs of imported foreign goods.

If we truly had a level playing field where the conditions were equivalent, but not necessarily the same rates of pay, and all countries either had no social security or the same social security or healthcare. Then this would be a very hollow argument.

However as this country does have unemployment benefits and a socialised medical system, then the loss of jobs overseas means that we-the-people have to support the now unemployed former workers. Although Government subsidies to manufacturers are generally illegal under WTO rules it would make sense to support a manufacturer to keep jobs in Australia. Unfortunately as we saw in the Pacific Brands - "Bonds" case even though the Government subsidised Bonds and gained undertakings from them, the Company accepted the funds and still moved the jobs offshore. :mad:

Diana

[drivesafe]

Well actually the Blundstone boots were not made in NSW so they may as well have been in China in the first place. The Blundstone boots made in China, probably cost less than the Blundstone boots made in Tasmania and they all have to meet the same standards, so that IS supporting the people that voted them in.

This is exactly the type of mentality I was on about.

It makes no difference where, in Australia, the company was, they sacked Australian workers in favour of Chinese, and an Australian government, be it a state government, has elected to support this back stabbing company over other Australian companies.

[George130]

This is exactly the type of mentality I was on about.

It makes no difference where, in Australia, the company was, they sacked Australian workers in favour of Chinese, and an Australian government, be it a state government, has elected to support this back stabbing company over other Australian companies.

What you have missed in this argument is that the government sector has been picked on to the point that cost is now the deciding factor. Government is so scared of the public attacking their spending that we have to proove why the more expensive bidder is worth the extra. The amount of time and money to do this often means you can't as you don't have the budget to do your task anyway let alone spend it all arguing why you should take that contract over annother.
We are not even allowed to accept a coffee from a bidder these days:angel:.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

This is exactly the type of mentality I was on about.

It makes no difference where, in Australia, the company was, they sacked Australian workers in favour of Chinese, and an Australian government, be it a state government, has elected to support this back stabbing company over other Australian companies.But that is exactly the point. Under free trade agreements and WTO, Government Departments, Like NSW Health have had to remove sections in their purchasing policies that gave preference to local manufacturers. The first preference were items made in NSW then the rest of Australia and next in line was New Zealand (CER - for those who knew about it) we now have had to scrap all those policies lest we breach our treaty obligations under the World Trade Organisation.

So the bottom line these days is the bottom line and we purchase the lowest price that meets the standards and other delivery contract terms.

[Bigbjorn]

we have to proove why the more expensive bidder is worth the extra.

you should always have had to prove why the lowest conforming tender was not accepted!!!!! This is the whole basis of public tendering.

I know there has been, and may still be, much corruption in selling to government at all levels, but public tendering and particularly public opening and reading of tender prices does control corrupt practices to a certain extent.

I hope we have moved on from the times when an amount was added in to cost calculations for a tender to pay graft as necessary. Or the times when a Sales Manager would look at tender documents and ask the rep. concerned "Do we own anyone there?" I remember a Qld. Leyland dealer ordering two truck cab and chassis before the tender closed. He already had the order no. from the Shire Chairman.

[George130]

you should always have had to prove why the lowest conforming tender was not accepted!!!!! This is the whole basis of public tendering.

I know there has been, and may still be, much corruption in selling to government at all levels, but public tendering and particularly public opening and reading of tender prices does control corrupt practices to a certain extent.

I hope we have moved on from the times when an amount was added in to cost calculations for a tender to pay graft as necessary. Or the times when a Sales Manager would look at tender documents and ask the rep. concerned "Do we own anyone there?" I remember a Qld. Leyland dealer ordering two truck cab and chassis before the tender closed. He already had the order no. from the Shire Chairman.

Diana's post was better written than mine. I deleted all the bits that were aimed at the system. Yes we have always had to justify things but now the budgets are half what you need and around 10% of what you asked for.
One of the comments I removed is they ask for the moon and give you a paper clip and then tie you up for 3 years with investigations into why you havn't flown the paper clip to the moon yet knowing that when under investigation you can't progress. but at least they can then pass the paper clip onto someone else and pretend they have 2 paper clips.

Most local suppliers laugh at the budget limits so won't bid anyway.

[slug_burner]

You can hardly blame either the government or the manufacturer - the blame rests squarely on those who buy the cheapest product (or best value anyway) and expect not to be taxed to subsidise local production.

One point where I believe the Australian government IS to blame is in their using interest rates as teh sole control on the economy. This results in interest rates higher than anywhere else, which leads to higher manufacturing costs and a higher valued dollar, making it more difficult for local manufacturers to either export or compete with imports.

John

The Gov does not control interest rates directly, the Reserve Bank does. The government only set policy and stimulates sectors of the economy through grants like the first home owners thing.

In this whole argument people should consider the length of state on state wars these days, they are measured in days to months at best. I don't know that it will be long enough for anyone to build up lost industries or skills. We had an arms building and heavy engineering capability through the Government Factories and dock yards. Most if not all now owned by Thales and BAE and they find somethings cheaper to do overseas. The biggest vertical lathe I have ever seen is in Bendigo and I am not sure that the future of that thing is sorted.

The ability to feed your people is likely to be just if not more important with regard ensuring your long term survival as a state.

[Sprint]

The Blundstone boots made in China, probably cost less than the Blundstone boots made in Tasmania
nope, the prices have gone up, as have the profits for the shareholders.....

its the reason I now wear Ariat boots..... Made in America.....

[Crackerjack]

Australians must learn to buy Australian wherever possible

[JDNSW]

The Gov does not control interest rates directly, the Reserve Bank does. The government only set policy and stimulates sectors of the economy through grants like the first home owners thing.
.............

Exactly - the government does not in normal circumstances try to control inflation using any of the ways at its disposal except to leave it to the Reserve Bank which has no controls except interest. This results in higher interest rates than any other comparable economy, with the results I noted. Almost all the government's economic activities are carried out for reasons other than their effect on the economy (usually to try and win the next election), and they only worry about the economic effects if the effect is going to be short term and damage their electoral prospects - nobody is worried about long term effects.

John

John

[Ean Austral]

I dont know the circumstances of the blundstone boots situation, but it's possible alot of businesses move offshore because the playing field is so uneven due to Gov regulation and Taxes, not neccesarily the cheap labour option, but im sure this is factured in.I will give you an example of what I compete against..I am in the Prawn fishing Business, Wild caught not farmed
Every Month I supply 7x 100gr samples to be tested for diseases, iron , cadmium etc and have to have a paper trail to trace every carton of prawns I catch.
Yearly I get inspected for Quarenteen reg,s and if I fail any of the above my lisence to sell product is suspended till issues are fixed.
I am tracked via satellite 24/7 to make sure I do the right thing in reguard to nurseries, closed area etc
Our fishery has been reduced from 290 boats to 50 due to Gov cutbacks in Australian fishing licenses..I could go on but I wont.This fishery covers from Cape York to NT- WA boarder
I pay export and import taxes to for my product to leave Aust and enter other countries, not to mention my yearly license fee to fish, which would support a family of 4 no problems.
All of the above is payed for by me including the cost of replacing my license when the Government took part of it off me to reduce fishing Effort.

My competition is Farmed prawns from oversea's landed in this country with little or no import Duties, no disease testing, and no other charges.
Oh the Government in it's wisdom recently enforced labeling laws..WOW.

Bottom line, I can import oversea's farmed prawns, cheaper than I can send my boat to sea..I have worked in the fish farming industry, and believe me if you seen the warning's on the food pellet's that they feed the fish, you would be amazed and very concerned

How do I survive, I cut back from 3 boats to 1, therefor sacking 12 people, cut my spending to local business costing more jobs, and rely on the low AUD=$ to get good export price.End result Premium Aussie wild caught prawns not sold in Australia, cause I cant compete with imports

Tell me that's an even playing Field, and when I finally do get out of the business and more jobs are lost, tell me I did the wrong thing
Cheers Ean

[slug_burner]

I dont know the circumstances of the blundstone boots situation, but it's possible alot of businesses move offshore because the playing field is so uneven due to Gov regulation and Taxes, not neccesarily the cheap labour option, but im sure this is factured in.I will give you an example of what I compete against..I am in the Prawn fishing Business, Wild caught not farmed
Every Month I supply 7x 100gr samples to be tested for diseases, iron , cadmium etc and have to have a paper trail to trace every carton of prawns I catch.
Yearly I get inspected for Quarenteen reg,s and if I fail any of the above my lisence to sell product is suspended till issues are fixed.
I am tracked via satellite 24/7 to make sure I do the right thing in reguard to nurseries, closed area etc
Our fishery has been reduced from 290 boats to 50 due to Gov cutbacks in Australian fishing licenses..I could go on but I wont.This fishery covers from Cape York to NT- WA boarder
I pay export and import taxes to for my product to leave Aust and enter other countries, not to mention my yearly license fee to fish, which would support a family of 4 no problems.
All of the above is payed for by me including the cost of replacing my license when the Government took part of it off me to reduce fishing Effort.

My competition is Farmed prawns from oversea's landed in this country with little or no import Duties, no disease testing, and no other charges.
Oh the Government in it's wisdom recently enforced labeling laws..WOW.

Bottom line, I can import oversea's farmed prawns, cheaper than I can send my boat to sea..I have worked in the fish farming industry, and believe me if you seen the warning's on the food pellet's that they feed the fish, you would be amazed and very concerned

How do I survive, I cut back from 3 boats to 1, therefor sacking 12 people, cut my spending to local business costing more jobs, and rely on the low AUD=$ to get good export price.End result Premium Aussie wild caught prawns not sold in Australia, cause I cant compete with imports

Tell me that's an even playing Field, and when I finally do get out of the business and more jobs are lost, tell me I did the wrong thing
Cheers Ean

That sucks.

I know that the canned stuff is imported but are the prawns sold at the market imported?

[Ean Austral]

That sucks.

I know that the canned stuff is imported but are the prawns sold at the market imported?

It is now Government reg's that all imported seafood be labeled as such, but it doesn't determine that that it be labeled as farmed seafood or wild caught.The problem with farmed imported prawns is what they feed them to grow then dye them to get the colour right.

Unfortunately someone like myself who has scaled back , now rely on selling to a middle man, and I have no control over the mark-up they put on my product.This is a direct result in me having to reduce down in boat's, as to export successfully you need to ship by the container load and that is hard to do with 1 boat :twisted:

I can only suggest you look more closely at the label, and not so much the price difference compared to Australian Wild caught stuff, and even Australian farmed seafood is a far better option than imported.

Cheers Ean