A/T Tyres for a D3

[DiscoSaffa]

Hi Guys

New to this forum, and relatively new to Aus...... I have a 2007 D3 V6...... I have had her for just over a year and it is time for her to start doing what Land Rovers should...... international moves and additions to the family have kept otherwise occupied for the last little while......

So to the point...... while I have intentions of kitting her out it is going to be a slow process and the obvious place to start is tyres. She is currently fitted with factory standard rubber, horribly road biased and an obscure size I am told, 255/60 - 18. So the question is, are there any manufacturers that make an A/T tyre in this size?

She was in at the dealers for a service the other day (she is still under warranty so I have no choice :() I put the question to the very well dressed service “manager” <_< and his answer was no, and it is dangerous fitting any other size to the vehicle as it messes with the carputer, traction control, terrain response etc etc……. I long ago ceased trusting LR dealers (this being my 4th Landy…… in 3 countries…. The dealers are the same world wide)…. Hence the reason for posting this question here…… so after the long narrative, to sum up

1. Does any manufacturer make a locally available A/T tyre in the standard D3 size? (for cost reasons I would like to keep the standard rims)
2. Assuming the above is not an option, what are the other 18inch options and what are their effects on the carputer?
3. Once we get to option 2, I can start picking and choosing manufacturers, so which is the best option, considering that the care will still be called upon for relatively high on road mileage, day to day commuting and long distance.

Thanks in advance

B

[peterall]

I recently fitted Good Year Wrangler 'Silent Armour' which are a good 60/40 balance. They have a reasonable chunky tread pattern for off road but are really good on the highway..feel solid and no extra noise. Around $400.
Size is 265/60 18 which does not seem to effect speedo etc. despite slightly larger rolling diameter.
There are also other options from Cooper, Pirelli Scorpion, Mickey Thompson and others.

[spudboy]

Here's a review of 14 (I think) A/T tyres, with their good and bad points set out in a table at the end, including things like how puncture proof they are:

Australian 4WD Monthly dedicated to 4WD, 4x4, SUV, Truck, 4 wheel drive and off road community, loaded with tips, tests, reviews, travel, gallery and forum (http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/tips_tyres.php)

Pirelli Scorpion look to be the go (I just ordered a set ot ATRs for my Defender based on this test, and the feedback from this forum)

HTH
David

[spudboy]

...
She was in at the dealers for a service the other day (she is still under warranty so I have no choice :() ...


I believe you don't have to have the servicing done by a dealer, you can use an independent LR garage if you wish. It will not affect your warranty as long as they use LR parts etc. Not sure if someone like UltraTune "qualifies" as suitable, but a good LR garage will have the electronic hook up stuff to do a proper job.

Do a quick search here, there are quite a few posts about this.

[Scouse]

Yes, no need to go to a dealer for servicing. You can even do the servicing yourself. Genuine service parts are recommended though, so LR can't use those as a "get out of jail" card.

However, if something happens just outside the warranty period, you'll be on your own (not that anything goes wrong with Land Rovers).


As long as all 4 road tyres are the same size, the electronics won't be affected. It's when an odd size tyre is fitted that it creates havoc.

[WhiteD3]

Search through the D3 forum as there's more than a few threads on this subject. I recently fitted Pirelli Scorpion ATR's and I'm very happy with them. $390 each.

[spudboy]

WhiteD3 - what is that brown thing on your bull-bar? A dead fish?

[WhiteD3]

WhiteD3 - what is that brown thing on your bull-bar? A dead fish?

It's a snatch strap but you're not the first to mention this....usual reference is road kill.:eek:

[Tote]

Some info on the General Grabbers here : http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-zone/85017-18-general-grabber-38-000km-report.html
I'm happy with mine

Regards,
Tote

[rocmic]

I put General Gabber AT2s on my car (2008 SE TDV6) in August. Since then I have don about 6,000km - commute, cruise and a bit of fire trail. No problems with the tyre, perhaps a little bit noisier, but overall impression is that they are good compromise tyre.
Got them from Alto at Artarmon (although though I live near Blacktown) because that was the best deal I could find in Sydney.
What ever you decide on maske sure you shop around. I found price variations of up to $150 per tyre at different companies (and even different branches of the same company).

[stevo68]

It's a snatch strap but you're not the first to mention this....usual reference is road kill.:eek: And its cause we always have to snatch him out....hence his nickname "Snatchy" ;):p,

Regards

Stevo

[DiscoSaffa]

Hi guys, thanks for the advice..... I should have done a more detailed search on the forum before asking the question, I have since found a few threads, all full of very good advice, but some questions still remain. It would appear that general grabbers are the way to go…… it would also appear that my well dressed service manager was talking out of his proverbial and one does get these in the correct size (interestingly this was at Alto in Artarmon)……

Rocmic I am flabbergasted that the dealer was the cheapest option…. Goes against all my experience elsewhere in the world…… but good news none the less, as they are by far the most convenient for me.

Scouse, with respect to servicing a D3 myself...... I used to do this with my RRC, Flandy and Disco II, but the prospect of servicing a computer on wheels myself scares the hell out of me..... but I guess at the end of the day there can’t be too much that I can’t do……. But what about simple things like resetting the service counter on the carputer etc etc?…….

[Leo]

You can get General Grabber AT2s in exactly the right size, but I think they have a 2-ply sidewall as opposed to the 3 ply Cooper LTZs and a few others that only come in slightly larger sizes, but fit ok.

[DiscoSaffa]

So to summarise the responses to this thread, and others I have found..... General Grabbers are the ones to go for if I want to keep the size as standard, but assuming I want the extra side wall strenghth, I need to go to something else that is slightly larger.

The question that still remains is, under normal driving conditions what is the effect of larger tyres on things like the DSC, traction control, ABS etc? I am not worried about an inaccurate speedo, I use GPS on long trips for speed, but the other systems are designed and calibrated around a certain tyre size, in changing this tyre size, are these systems affected?

Cheers

B

[DiscoSaffa]

and one more, perhaps silly. question....... what is the largest tyre size that will fit in the spare wheel well? :confused:

[peterall]

My 265/60 18 Wrangler Silent Armours just fit the spare wheel well.

[D3Jon]

So to summarise the responses to this thread, and others I have found..... General Grabbers are the ones to go for if I want to keep the size as standard, but assuming I want the extra side wall strenghth, I need to go to something else that is slightly larger.

The question that still remains is, under normal driving conditions what is the effect of larger tyres on things like the DSC, traction control, ABS etc? I am not worried about an inaccurate speedo, I use GPS on long trips for speed, but the other systems are designed and calibrated around a certain tyre size, in changing this tyre size, are these systems affected?

Cheers

B

I've heard very good things about the General Grabber AT2's and as said they come in exactly the right size and correct load rating for the (heavyweight) D3. I'd stick to the standard size if it was me, that way your insurance isn't affected as otherwise you will have modified the vehicle by fitting non standard size tyres (which you'd be best to tell them about if you want them to actually pay up in the event of a claim).

Jon

[AnD3rew]

I got General Grabbers as well, have really only done highway and some dirt road, no real offroad. I am very happy they handle well, a tiny bit of noise but not bad they stop well in the wet, they are the same size as original so no hassles with computer or spare wheel well etc.

Have heard they can be a bit weak in the sidewalls in teh really rough stuff so I am yet to test that out. hopefully soon.

[WhiteD3]

Pirelli Scorpion ATR (which I have) are the standard size (255/60R18) as are the Conti cross contact I think.

[Leo]

The question that still remains is, under normal driving conditions what is the effect of larger tyres on things like the DSC, traction control, ABS etc?



No effect at all, apart from the speedo, which is more accurate with slightly larger sizes than with the stock size.

The Grabber AT2 only has 2-ply sidewalls and they do suffer in some conditions. Some saffers have spoken about their experiences with different tyres on the SA specific section on Disco3.co.uk.

[stevo68]

I've had the HP's and the the Grabbers. In simple terms it really depends on what you are going to be doing. For light to medium work....the Grabbers will be fine. They are a definate improvement over the HP's.

If you are going to do more challenging off road work...then not so great. Problems as have been stated is poor sidewall in terms of ply strength..I did 2 Grabbers, the other one is lack of sidewall when aired down....the rims just got hammered over rocks and ledges. The good thing is that there are stronger tyres available now for general use. For me I would be going the KM2's if one is contemplating more rugged use....otherwise a decent AT with a strong rated sidewall.

Regards

Stevo

[DiscoSaffa]

Thanks guys....... based on all this and the type of off roading I am likely to do the grabbers seem to be the way to go......

That said, for various reasons, I do like the idea of a slightly larger tyre....... 265/60-18 for example...... by my calcs these are 10mm wider and the rolling diameter is increased by 12mm. Now I understand the insurance company kicking up a fuss if I put a set of 35 inchers on the vehicle, but is increasing the tyre size by 12mm really considered "modifying" the vehicle? :rulez: Forgive my ignorance here, but my local knowledge is still a bit limited……. :confused:

[gghaggis]

I think in most states you're still allowed to fit tyres up to 50mm larger in diameter to a 4wd - check with your local road traffic authority.

Cheers,

Gordon

[WhiteD3]

I think in most states you're still allowed to fit tyres up to 50mm larger in diameter to a 4wd - check with your local road traffic authority.

Cheers,

Gordon

15mm in QLD

[D3Jon]

Thanks guys....... based on all this and the type of off roading I am likely to do the grabbers seem to be the way to go......

That said, for various reasons, I do like the idea of a slightly larger tyre....... 265/60-18 for example...... by my calcs these are 10mm wider and the rolling diameter is increased by 12mm. Now I understand the insurance company kicking up a fuss if I put a set of 35 inchers on the vehicle, but is increasing the tyre size by 12mm really considered "modifying" the vehicle? :rulez: Forgive my ignorance here, but my local knowledge is still a bit limited……. :confused:


Ring your insurance company first and find out what they consider modifying the vehicle to be. My understanding is that using tyres that are a different size to those originally fitted to the vehicle definitely constitutes modifying the vehicle in the eyes of an insurance company. Usually if you tell them they'll be fine about it and not charge you any extra, but I'd tell them just to be on the safe side.

In my experience, if you have a large enough claim, they will try everything to wriggle out of it. I've seen cars (in the UK) scrutinised for modifications or anything that would make it unfit for use on the road so that they don't have to pay up. It's amazing what they can find if the claim's big enough - even on a new car.


I think in most states you're still allowed to fit tyres up to 50mm larger in diameter to a 4wd - check with your local road traffic authority.

Cheers,

Gordon

True, but that's only what you're allowed to do before having to have the vehicle inspected or 'Engineered' as specified by the Department of Planning and Infrastructure (Dept of Transport now).

Notifying your insurance company of vehicle modifications is a different matter altogether. Try running into the back of a Bugatti Veyron at the lights and see how much attention they pay to the vehicles tyre sizes then!! :D

Jon

[jonesy63]

15mm in QLD
15mm in NSW as well!
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi09_rev4.pdf

FWIW, I have Yokohama Geolandar A/T-S in 265/60R18 on mine. Very happy with them and having 55,000km on the first set I had, put another set of them on. I actually kept the two rear tyres for spare carcasses - could have just replaced the two fronts, but wanted some spares for trips.

[D3Jon]

15mm in NSW as well!
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi09_rev4.pdf

FWIW, I have Yokohama Geolandar A/T-S in 265/60R18 on mine. Very happy with them and having 55,000km on the first set I had, put another set of them on. I actually kept the two rear tyres for spare carcasses - could have just replaced the two fronts, but wanted some spares for trips.

Hi Jonesy,

I don't want to seem like I'm on a crusade regarding tyre legality or anything :). But as this forum is in the public domain and readable for years to come by anybody who can Google, I feel it's worth pointing out the following:

I know people like and use the Geolanders, but strictly speaking the 265/60R18 Geolander A/T-S is an illegal fitment on a D3 due to it's inadequate load rating.

For example, an extract from your pdf link:

"Tyre load rating

Any replacement tyre must have a load rating equal to or better than the rating of the original tyres fitted by the vehicle manufacturer. This information is available from the tyre placard or the vehicle manufacturer."

The tyre placard on a D3 and the owners manual state that 18" tyres should have a load rating of 112, in line with that the Goodyear Wranglers that your car would have originally been factory fitted with had a load rating of 112.

Unfortunately the 265/60/18 Geolanders have a load rating of 110. Only very slightly less, but in the eyes of the law they are an illegal fitment on the D3 and something potential purchasers should be aware of.

Jon

[jonesy63]

Thanks Jon - read the tyre placard - you will see the minimum tyre rating in Australia is 109. Why they make it 112 in the UK is beyond me. Those genius engineers at LR must believe they have "sharp mud" or something up there! :twisted:

FYI, a tyre loading of 109 equates to a weight of 1040kg per wheel. What is the loading of the wheel that LR provides as standard? 940kg.

Yes - I feel plenty safe in recommending any 109+ rated tyre.

[D3Jon]

Thanks Jon - read the tyre placard - you will see the minimum tyre rating in Australia is 109. Why they make it 112 in the UK is beyond me. Those genius engineers at LR must believe they have "sharp mud" or something up there! :twisted:

FYI, a tyre loading of 109 equates to a weight of 1040kg per wheel. What is the loading of the wheel that LR provides as standard? 940kg.

Yes - I feel plenty safe in recommending any 109+ rated tyre.

Is that for the 18" tyre though? When I bought tyres for mine I went through this in detail and 112 was the minimum. I'm 100% certain that the tyre placard on my Australian delivered 05 TDV6 SE (with standard 18" rims) said 112. Unfortunatley I can't check the tyre placard or owners handbook anymore as I've since sold the car.

My understanding is that the tyre load rating for vehicles supplied with 17" and 19" rims was slightly less, but not for those supplied with 18" rims. :confused:

I'm happy to stand corrected on this one :)

Jon

[jonesy63]

Is that for the 18" tyre though? When I bought tyres for mine I went through this in detail and 112 was the minimum. I'm 100% certain that the tyre placard on my Australian delivered 05 TDV6 SE (with standard 18" rims) said 112. Unfortunatley I can't check the tyre placard or owners handbook anymore as I've since sold the car.

My understanding is that the tyre load rating for vehicles supplied with 17" and 19" rims was slightly less, but not for those supplied with 18" rims. :confused:

I'm happy to stand corrected on this one :)

Jon

Jon - don't sit down! :D

The placard shows the minimum load rating is for all tyres. Here is a photo of the Australian placard:
http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/11257/tyre%20plate.JPG

(I stand corrected - load rating of 109 is 1030kg, not 1040kg like I mentioned above). Still, wheels are stamped with 940kg rating.

Cheers,
Rob

[gps-au]

http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/11257/tyre%20plate.JPG


Ok, the last paragraph of the notice I find interesting.

Does it imply that if you fit "winter" or M&S (off road) tyres you can go for lower speed ratings (less than H) ??

[300+]

I think it is just warning you that specialist tyres may have a very low speed rating and that you should check what it is before driving.

For example, a Q speed rated tyre is only approved for up to 160KM/H. The D3 can exceed that, laws aside. So if you fit Q rated snow tyres don't drive over 160.

It is a nice thing to read on a tyre placard, as otherwise you could be limited to the factory fitted speed rating of H (210 KPH).

Cheers, Steve

[gps-au]

I think it is just warning you that specialist tyres may have a very low speed rating and that you should check what it is before driving.

For example, a Q speed rated tyre is only approved for up to 160KM/H. The D3 can exceed that, laws aside. So if you fit Q rated snow tyres don't drive over 160.

It is a nice thing to read on a tyre placard, as otherwise you could be limited to the factory fitted speed rating of H (210 KPH).

Cheers, Steve

BUT, have a good look at your tyres...

My Dueller H/T (unwanted replacments) actually have on examination "M+S" imprinted on the sidewall (close to the rim). I decided to have a look at ALL the 4wd's in the building where I live in Cairns last night, ALL have similar, so it does get you wondering.....

[CJT]

I am not sure about ohter states however QLD legislation is as follows;

The speed rating of all tyres must be:
a speed of at least
for an off-road passenger vehicle - 140km/h

Load ratings of tyres must be at least equal to thos specified by the manufacturer on the tyre placard fitted to vehicles made after 1972.

Tyres can be up to 1.5 times the width of the manufacturers widest option as long as wheel track is not increased by more than 50mm and tyres are within guards / flares.

Tyres width can never be less than narrowest manufacturer tyre.

In QLD tyre size also can not be increased by more than 15mm over manufacturers maximum tyre size on placard.

[Tote]

The M + S rating is relevent in the US where there is snow, Authorities mandate that vehicles must have mud and snow rated tyres in winter.
I dont think it has much to do with capability though.
From some random website:
If a tire has MS, M+S, M/S or M&S on it, then it meets the Rubber Manufacturers Association (RMA) guidelines for a mud and snow tire. For a tire to receive the Mud and Snow designation, it must meet these geometric requirements (taken from the bulletin "RMA Snow Tire Definitions for Passenger and Light Truck (LT) Tires"):

1. New tire treads shall have multiple pockets or slots in at least one tread edge that meet the following dimensional requirements based on mold dimensions:
a. Extend toward the tread center at least 1/2 inch from the footprint edge, measured perpendicularly to the tread centerline.
b. A minimum cross-sectional width of 1/16 inch.
c. Edges of pockets or slots at angles between 35 and 90 degrees from the direction of travel.

2. The new tire tread contact surface void area will be a minimum of 25 percent based on mold dimensions.

The rough translation of this specification is that the tire must have a row of fairly big grooves that start at the edge of the tread and extend toward the center of the tire. Also, at least 25 percent of the surface area must be grooves.


Severe winter traction icon

The idea is to give the tread pattern enough void space so that it can bite through the snow and get traction. However, as you can see from the specification, there is no testing involved.


Regards,
Tote