Purchasing a P38 - what to look out for?

[yeboants]

Hi,
Thinking of buying a 1996 4.6HSE. (wil be my first)
Vehicle has 210K km's on the clock.
I have not seen it in person as yet hence the post.

Apart from Service history any other questions/things I should ask/look out for?
Thanks in Advance.
Anton

[Kalincho]

Read a few of the other posts in this forum and make sure you take a look at rangerovers.net to get the low down.

My feeling is that your best bet if you really want one is to buy one from some one who is as much as an enthuisast as those who post on this forum.

They are a car that if not maintained exceedingly well, it will come back to haunt you.

Just remember " from little things big things grow" and be prepared to spend some of your hard earned money.

There is a wealth of information online about these cars and lots of info on how to maintain and repair them. (PaulP38)

Everyone will have a different opinion on them, but for those who get hooked, love them.

I know that I have had a few sleepness nights with my mine, though when you get in and drive that big sofa all of yours, all those reservations melt away. Just take a look at the price you will have to pay for a car with the same features, mine's a 95 and it surpasses many cars even in 09.

my 2 cents

Kalincho

[spudboy]

96 is a very early one. Be careful. The later ones were a better buy.

Search here for articles on the buying a P38, there are quite a few similar questions which will fill you in a bit.

Cheers
David

[Hoges]

P38-itis is a viral disease for which there is no known cure ... it's not covered by Medicare and private cover (=extended warranty) almost non-obtainable. You will be afflicted with a rare form of STD (sensor-transmitted debt) ...there are sensors for everything and for which a working knowledge of electrical circuits, OBDII fault codes, a spare laptop or 2 loaded with XP...this is important, contents of a RAVE disc obtainable from the web with 4000+ pages of searchable pdf files... it will bleed your weekly pocket money allowance dry with little left for beer and skittles... you will wander around with a glazed look in your eyes trying to figure out the ABS/EAS/GEMS or Motronic5.2.1 EFI/ATF/AT/4 or 2WDTC/TFC/ECUs/BECMs and generally improve you cognitive state. More importantly you may find yourself engaging with people from Greenland to Terra del Fuego and Jo'burgh to Georgia...even Omaha Nebraska for 37 o-rings of precisely the correct size...:wasntme: all of them similarly afflicted and addicted to cyber support groups in the thirst for knowledge.. don't claim you were not warned :D

[Remy]

Come on Hoges they are not that bad - mine has been good - only the things you would expect of a car of this age (96) and well parts are not that bad if you are prepared to look around and do a few things yourself like all cars.

As others have said take a look around there is plenty of info here and rangerover.net but once you know what to look for you can decide if you are up for it or want something less electronic.

Two most important issues slipped liners and second air suspension. The air isn't that bad Andrew_E on this forum sells a bypass kit in case it fails and the rest is just a learning curve or if you are really scared you could go coils but again i love the air suspension and mine works great. Slipped liners you should read about. If you can get the VIN Scouse on this forum might be able to look and see if there is anything major listed by Land Rover.

I wouldn't get rid of mine and i have had a few from series through to early discos but i am very happy with the RR especially as i now have a few bits fitted that others take for granted.
Cheers,
Remy


P38-itis is a viral disease for which there is no known cure ... it's not covered by Medicare and private cover (=extended warranty) almost non-obtainable. You will be afflicted with a rare form of STD (sensor-transmitted debt) ...there are sensors for everything and for which a working knowledge of electrical circuits, OBDII fault codes, a spare laptop or 2 loaded with XP...this is important, contents of a RAVE disc obtainable from the web with 4000+ pages of searchable pdf files... it will bleed your weekly pocket money allowance dry with little left for beer and skittles... you will wander around with a glazed look in your eyes trying to figure out the ABS/EAS/GEMS or Motronic5.2.1 EFI/ATF/AT/4 or 2WDTC/TFC/ECUs/BECMs and generally improve you cognitive state. More importantly you may find yourself engaging with people from Greenland to Terra del Fuego and Jo'burgh to Georgia...even Omaha Nebraska for 37 o-rings of precisely the correct size...:wasntme: all of them similarly afflicted and addicted to cyber support groups in the thirst for knowledge.. don't claim you were not warned :D

[Remy]

P38-itis is a viral disease for which there is no known cure ... it's not covered by Medicare and private cover (=extended warranty) almost non-obtainable. You will be afflicted with a rare form of STD (sensor-transmitted debt) ...there are sensors for everything and for which a working knowledge of electrical circuits, OBDII fault codes, a spare laptop or 2 loaded with XP...this is important, contents of a RAVE disc obtainable from the web with 4000+ pages of searchable pdf files... it will bleed your weekly pocket money allowance dry with little left for beer and skittles... you will wander around with a glazed look in your eyes trying to figure out the ABS/EAS/GEMS or Motronic5.2.1 EFI/ATF/AT/4 or 2WDTC/TFC/ECUs/BECMs and generally improve you cognitive state. More importantly you may find yourself engaging with people from Greenland to Terra del Fuego and Jo'burgh to Georgia...even Omaha Nebraska for 37 o-rings of precisely the correct size...:wasntme: all of them similarly afflicted and addicted to cyber support groups in the thirst for knowledge.. don't claim you were not warned :D

Whoops maybe you are right :o

[big guy]

There is nothing 5 panadols could not fix and a good night rest.

[PaulP38a]

LMAO @ Hoges:Rolling:

I "gotta kinda" agree though. Sometimes I wish I hadn't been bitten by the Range Rover bug... I know my wife and bank balance does.

My first two Rangies (Classics) and Freelander were cool but it wasn't until I bought a P38A that it became a case of "I don't want to drive anything else (unless it is a new Supercharged RRS)".

P38A's are cheap to buy, expensive to maintain, and absolutelybl****ybrilliant to drive on and off-road.

Some here would disagree, but I don't see much point in having a P38A if you remove the Electronic Air Suspension (EAS)... might as well have a Disco II. However, the EAS has a poor reputation especially if it is not maintained. Pretty easy once you have figured it out though.

A couple of tips when checking out the car in the yard:
The EAS will not operate (up or down) if any of the doors/tailgates are open or if your foot is on the brake.
If any corner/end of the car sags after EAS is adjusted, and you open a door, you probably have a leaking air-bag.
A bit of adjustment in the EAS after levelling is normal... you'll hear the ticking sound as the valves open and close.
If it takes longer than 20 seconds to move up one EAS height setting, you probably have a worn out compressor or leak in the tank and/or fittings.

All Rover V8's have potential issues of blown head gaskets and slipped liners.

Post 99 Rangies have the Thor engine management which has a slghtly better reputation than the GEMS system used in the 95-early 99 models.

Another bug bear of P38A's is the "cheque book" symbol on the HVAC panel. More often than not, this is due to blend motors or some associated component failing in the air-con or heating and will probably require removal of the entire dash to fix.

P38A's can't swim like Defenders and 110's can... those clever fellows at LR decided to put the main computer for the car under the driver's seat, and the EAS and TC (or EAT?) ECU's under the passenger seat... so when you do stop in a river and water seeps in, not only does the main computer fry, the EAS ECU craps itself and lowers you further in to the water... ask me how I know this :twisted:

Like all Rangies, the headlining sags after a few years, the leather seats fade and crack. Hopefully the stereo has been replaced by something that can handle modern music formats and devices.

I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but unless you're ready to become a Range Rover bigot I'd suggest buying a 5-10 year old LandCruiser and make do with a "good" 4WD that is simple to get parts for and easy to upgrade, instead of buying an awesome 4WD that will have you digging deep for the rest of your ownership ;)

If you do decide to buy a Range Rover P38A though, you are in good company on this board and at RangeRovers.net.

Cheers, Paul.

[Grumbles]

That is pretty well said PaulP38a. Perhaps the only other major biggie apart from the Air Suspension, blend motors and various engine issues which you mentioned which could frighten a new owner would be the potential failure of the ABS -that one unit could cost big time too.

Everything else could perhaps be fairly labelled as routine maintenance or unexpected breakages. No different to any other car on the road.

If I was buying one, and I would in an instant, except I have spent way too much on my LSE refurbishing it, then I would be looking at a 2000 onwards model.

But buying can be a funny financial equation. Buy an early P38 for a low $10G with high kilometres and face possibly face major repairs up to $15G -heads/liners, EAS. ABS or spend say $25G plus for a low km P38 and hopefully spend nothing on major repairs.

Having said that not every P38 will need every item listed repaired. I think it is a bit of a lottery and just how lucky you are when it comes to getting a 'good' P38. There are even some of the possibly more problematic early P38s getting around with high kilometres on them and basically unmolested by mechanics.

Hmmm, sounds like I'm talking myself into a P38 too.........no no no, I've spent too much on my LSE...but..........lol

[PaulP38a]

Hmmm, sounds like I'm talking myself into a P38 too.........no no no, I've spent too much on my LSE...but..........lol

Too late for you Grumbles... you already have a Rangie... you're bitten... just a matter of time before you succumb to the P38A "upgrade" :eek:... resistance is futile :p

Cheers, Paul.

[Bigbjorn]

I asked a couple of used car dealers of my acquaintance about them. They independently gave much the same answers. They would not buy one unless they had it pre-sold, would prefer not to trade one in, wholesale value under $10,000, prone to very expensive problems with electronics, suspension, A/c, and have known engine problems. Dealers have to give warranty and warranty insurance is very expensive for these because of bad experiences in the past.

Very nice cars but expensive to own and run.

[willem]

This must be just about time for a report card on the first 20 000 kms in my 99 P38 4.0.

We have now done more than 20 000 kms in the Green Machine. There have been some issues with the car, but overall I'm pretty happy.



Purchased December 08. 144 000kms. Now has 165 000 kms.
On the way to Sydney the front left wheel fell off. The mechanic who had done the roadworthy check hadn't tightened the wheel nuts. And, what is worse, I hadn't checked them. Fixed by insurance. (Thanks to Andy and Erich for making it work for me in Sydney.)
Aircon wasn't working all the way to Sydney. Found out in Sydney that the problem was the aircon relay (found by Ron Beckett - thanks Ron). The trip back from Sydney was much more pleasant than the trip there. Both were in about 40 degree heat!
LPG Gas Injection system installed. This has been faultless. Expensive, tho - even after the govt threw a couple of grand at me for doing it.
EAS has been fiddly. I have had to reset it several using the EAS unlock software (thanks, Paul!). I have replaced the rear airsprings. Cleaning some of the earths in the engine bay has helped enormously. The system has settled down to the extent that it rarely plays up and when it does just switching off the ignition for a few minutes resets it. Still some things to sort out - ride heights in particular. But I love it ... I wouldn't go back to coils.
Leaking O rings in the heater core. **** of a job to fix, but its done now.
Front engine seal has a small leak.
Aircon throws up an error message occasionally. It still works fine, and the message is usually gone by next time.
The car is (over) due for a service. Tomorrow's job.

That's about it. Many here have said that these cars are cheap to buy and expensive to own. I can vouch for the first, but, so far, the car has been no more expensive to run than other cars I have owned. Certainly cheaper than the VW Kombi Caravelle I sold a few months ago. I don't know how it will go in the future, but if this keeps up I'm not complaining.

This 'report card' might be helpful to those thinking about buying one of these.

Willem

[Aussie]

All of my niggling electrical problems have vanished since the Fuse box was replaced.

Airbag fault...fixed
door sometimes wouldnt unlock....fixed
book symbol on AC display...fixed
AC fan not switching to High mode...fixed

P38 is a fantastic machine, but it does need you to be proactive as an owner. Alot of my issues have been me being too lazy to fix stuff before it breaks. Example being - I knew the front air bag was leaking but didnt fix it, so P38 says "right I've warned you now your in trouble" and compressor dies.

I noticed Cruise control vacumm tube was cracked but did FA all about it, then CC stops working until I replaced all the tubes :)


Next weekend I'm am replacing the following bits:

3x airbags (did one a month ago)
Shockers
front discs & pads (changing too Vented rotors)
Steering dampner

[willem]

All of my niggling electrical problems have vanished since the Fuse box was replaced.

Airbag fault...fixed
door sometimes wouldnt unlock....fixed
book symbol on AC display...fixed
AC fan not switching to High mode...fixed

P38 is a fantastic machine, but it does need you to be proactive as an owner. Alot of my issues have been me being too lazy to fix stuff before it breaks. Example being - I knew the front air bag was leaking but didnt fix it, so P38 says "right I've warned you now your in trouble" and compressor dies.

I noticed Cruise control vacumm tube was cracked but did FA all about it, then CC stops working until I replaced all the tubes :)


Next weekend I'm am replacing the following bits:

3x airbags (did one a month ago)
Shockers
front discs & pads (changing too Vented rotors)
Steering dampner

Well said!

Willem