More talk of new defender

[LR D4]

More talk and rumors

http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1035656...ue-in-2013

http://www.examiner.com/x-572-Auto-Review-...e-US-bound

Leftlane – news, reviews, and info for the auto-industry (http://www.leftlanenews.com/new-land-rover...ecade.html)


I don't like the sound of the air suspension or the independent suspension but the V6 2.7ltr would be good and the new 5.0ltr V8 would be awesome but I will eat my hat if land rover release the new defender with a 5ltr V8 in australia.

[frantic]

This is the big IF : the G-wagen does more than say 200 sales in both petrol and diesel we will get both and i'll send you some worsticshire sauce to wash your hat down with.:D
But we should get both anyway as it would anihilate the wrangler rubi, the hummer wannabe and the toyota 7?? series as long as they restrain the price to a small increase on the current model and not a 5% cheaper disco/rrsport!
Heres a simple idea ! Make it with the 3.0 diesel and let there be LR specialist service centres in every decent sized outback town( read that as any with a toyota/ holden dealer) that hold a supply of spares with specialty parts shipped in express on a 1 day order from a dealer. This would mean serviceability in the outback without the large dealer overheads!

[Shonky]

And put airbags in it and sell them en-masse to heavy industry! ;)

[pbroz]

do you think they keep the Ali body?

[LR D4]

Heres the pics of the tata based Model 2.2ltr

As you can see land rover are all about going forward not backward and twirling twirling always twirling.....

[camel_landy]

Don't you just love the speculation.... The guys up at Gaydon must pee themselves laughing with some of the articles.

M

[miky]

The worst thing I see about all this is that the price will go up - and not just by a small amount. Reckon it will come in closer to the disco than the current defender price?

[spudfan]

Everyone with ears on their knee caps will appreciate the positioning of the speakers.:angel:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Not a fan of the frontal design, the rest is O.K. - sort of.

[Phoenix]

That red one is a lightweight prototype, LU2 or something, from the 80's or 90's, ot a new thing by any means!

[Scallops]

Well, I don't care what anyone says - I'm glad I've got a sorted, solid, Puma Defender - the last of the best.

[dlatn]

Well, I don't care what anyone says - I'm glad I've got a sorted, solid, Puma Defender - the last of the best.


Wouldn't that be an Isuzu County?:D
I love that red prototype, does anyone else have any info on it?
LandRover would do well to produce a product in India to compete with the Suzuki Sierra/ daihatsu terrios end of the market
a modern day series 1/2

[Scallops]

Wouldn't that be an Isuzu County?:D....


I refer you to the first part of my initial comment... :D :p

[LR D4]

Well, I don't care what anyone says - I'm glad I've got a sorted, solid, Puma Defender - the last of the best.
Me too Dan I very happy that I bought mine when I did, The last true 4WD in the world and the end of era, just think what ever they do to the new defender the only thing that will remain will be the badge, not its history. If land rover try and enter the american market and aim to sell 50,000+ units world wide there goes all the various platforms they make and will probably only make 110s and maybe 90s to increase sales and help stem build complexity of the new platform.I am going to put myself out there and say I bet they make across between a Disco 3 and a Hummer, It will look cool if you want a urban pimp machine, Probably still very capable for the occasional weekend rock hopping, not the agricultural live for ever towing machine that we have known for the last 61 years.

LR09WA

[wanderlust4ever]

Bloody orrible, init.

[flagg]

Everyone with ears on their knee caps will appreciate the positioning of the speakers.:angel:

I'd rather have deaf knees than frozen ones ! :wasntme:

[flagg]

Well, I don't care what anyone says - I'm glad I've got a sorted, solid, Puma Defender - the last of the best.

Yeah same. There will never be anything like an Isuzu 110! :D oh wait, someone already made that joke :wasntme::angel:

[Blknight.aus]

sure there is

a perentie 6x6...

[PAT303]

Yeah same. There will never be anything like an Isuzu 110! :D oh wait, someone already made that joke :wasntme::angel:

Yeah their like 1HZ's a good thing compared to 3.3 Patrol's,2.2 hilux's and VN bomberdoors,the worlds moved on. Pat

[JamesH]

Well, I have to say with some gruntier tyres, a D3 will service all my off-road, and outback camping needs absolutely brilliantly. What I want that a D3 doesn't give me is a simple "sweep and hose out" interior, ability to put another tank in without also needing to invest in a rear wheel carrier, and a delete option on some superfluous seats. I also would like a vehicle that has serious styling queues from my beloved Defender; that's just for my own personal taste.

So, therefore I have no problem with the concept of an agricultural(ish) vehicle with a Defender badge based on a D3 drivetrain with a 2.7/3.0 twin turbo engine and an automatic transmission.

I'm not denying that a stuff up is a real possibility, but roll on tomorrow, I say. I'm excited.

[flagg]

Well, I have to say with some gruntier tyres, a D3 will service all my off-road, and outback camping needs absolutely brilliantly. What I want that a D3 doesn't give me is a simple "sweep and hose out" interior, ability to put another tank in without also needing to invest in a rear wheel carrier, and a delete option on some superfluous seats. I also would like a vehicle that has serious styling queues from my beloved Defender; that's just for my own personal taste.

So, therefore I have no problem with the concept of an agricultural(ish) vehicle with a Defender badge based on a D3 drivetrain with a 2.7/3.0 twin turbo engine and an automatic transmission.

I'm not denying that a stuff up is a real possibility, but roll on tomorrow, I say. I'm excited.

All true, and I do agree /in principle/.

Its just that chances are we will just end up with a D3 with a more boxy body and cloth seats. Nothing more than a D3 with "style queues" of urban ruggedness - but without the actual ruggedness (aka hummer 2,3)

then again, maybe that is the future that we will have to learn to love.

The whole point of the defender is that it has no style queues. It is completely function over form. Spending years trying to recreate that just seems a little too ironic.

But, it is a Friday so maybe I'm just a little too synical :)

A ray of light may be Tata wanting something simple that they can sell into the 3rd world..

But (again) the proof of the pudding is in the eating. I guess we all just have to wait and see. If, however it has ANY chrome on it. It's over. :p

[JDNSW]

All true, and I do agree /in principle/.

Its just that chances are we will just end up with a D3 with a more boxy body and cloth seats. Nothing more than a D3 with "style queues" of urban ruggedness - but without the actual ruggedness (aka hummer 2,3)

then again, maybe that is the future that we will have to learn to love.

The whole point of the defender is that it has no style queues. It is completely function over form. Spending years trying to recreate that just seems a little too ironic.

But, it is a Friday so maybe I'm just a little too synical :)

A ray of light may be Tata wanting something simple that they can sell into the 3rd world..

But (again) the proof of the pudding is in the eating. I guess we all just have to wait and see. If, however it has ANY chrome on it. It's over. :p

I presume that by queue you mean cue, and by synical you mean cynical?

It is probably possible to build an acceptable Defender replacement on the D3 platform, although I am not too convinced that Landrover will do it!

Some of the features that are necessary to have the Defender name in my view:-

Flat, sweep out or hose out floors.

Flat glass.

Ability to have a variety of body styles, including five door wagon, four door dual cab trayback, two door three seat trayback, all with parts commonality.

Largely alloy body.

John

[PAT303]

It would have to be acceptable for the military whatever it turns out to be.The best thing is I very much doubt it will go high tech as TATA would want it sold in India and other third world countries,LR have the last basic large 4wd platform left in the world and they are in the box seat as far as supplying a vehicle that can cater for that market.I hope they drop a wider body onto the exsisting chassis and use the 2.7 power train. Pat

[JamesH]

It would have to be acceptable for the military whatever it turns out to be.The best thing is I very much doubt it will go high tech as TATA would want it sold in India and other third world countries,LR have the last basic large 4wd platform left in the world and they are in the box seat as far as supplying a vehicle that can cater for that market.I hope they drop a wider body onto the exsisting chassis and use the 2.7 power train. Pat


Yes, that works for me too, and so does JDNSW's list. What we need is a billionaire on the forum who can commission a redesigned Defender that keeps what we like and adds what we want. We'd then ship it to LR and say "Here, build this".

[Dmmos]

I'm sure most of you have seen the link below already (sorry if it's a repost), but it's interesting what Phil Popham (LR Managing Director) said about the Defender a couple of weeks ago when he was in Aus - particularly;


However, Mr Popham cautioned that although the current Defender’s relatively low global sales volume of about 25,000 vehicles annually is not enough to justify the development of an all-new platform, a wider customer base could do so.

He said Land Rover was still studying the complex equation of maintaining the Defender’s hallmark off-road ability while attracting the broader number of sales required for it to develop a fully redesigned vehicle.

“The dilemma we’ve got as a company, when it comes to replacing an icon like Defender, is you’re replacing a car that is known throughout the world and has been for 61 years, but its sells 25,000 units a year – not a lot in the automotive industry and not a lot within our portfolio of products at the moment,” he said.

“You've got to sell a lot more than 25,000 vehicles off a new platform to make business sense.”

Asked by GoAuto what Defender volume would make a replacement viable, Mr Popham said: “If you significantly simplify it on a modern platform, you still need to sell about 50,000 units a year to make it viable.”

He said number was achievable because the Defender is not currently sold in all countries in its present guise because of various regulations that preclude it but a Defender on a modern platform would open up more markets, including the United States.

“We’re a small player in the commercial business which is probably three million vehicles a year. We need to understand what segments it can compete in, what body styles it needs to have, what level of capability, usage, duty cycle it’s going to have – and that’s the work we're doing at the moment.

“Defining exactly where it will sit will dictate what the car needs to do – how it needs to be engineered – and that will prove or disprove the business case,” he said.

But a decision not to go on would not be taken lightly. “(Defender) is our heritage. It underlines our history, our origins, our engineering credibility and leadership, and it’s passed on a lot of positive things to the products that followed.”

Land Rover says it will replace Defender, but is yet to decide its form (http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/79696AE643C3E79DCA25764A00051AFF)

Given my total lack of actual automotive knowledge, why is it that the Defender doesn't meet Euro pedestrian and emission laws (upcoming), and is something similar going to happen to the Toyota equivalent?

[Dmmos]

What we need is a billionaire on the forum who can commission a redesigned Defender that keeps what we like and adds what we want. We'd then ship it to LR and say "Here, build this".

There's already a bad precedent for this - The Homer (http://simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/%22The_Homer%22);

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/10/50.jpg

[chumpion]

I know this is a bit off topic, but here's a link to a potential Land Rover Replacement for the Australian Army....

Thales Protected Mobility Vehicles (http://www.thalesprotectedmobility.com.au/tpm/pmvl.html)

The Thales Bushmasters are already being used - this is like it's smaller brother...

[JDNSW]

...........
Given my total lack of actual automotive knowledge, why is it that the Defender doesn't meet Euro pedestrian and emission laws (upcoming), and is something similar going to happen to the Toyota equivalent?

The emissions rules can almost certainly be met simply by engine changes, although an increasing problem is likely to be carbon dioxide emissions, and it is unlikely to be possible to reduce these sufficiently without reducing mass substantially - not possible with the current basic design. But carbon dioxide emissions are not an immediate concern.

The pedestrian impact laws can quite likely be met by new front panel design, and possibly modifying the front of the chassis forward of the steering box - this could be done without changing the basic design, but the problem is that it would not look like a current Defender, and the new panel pressings would represent a substantial investment in tooling, to the extent you have to think carefully about spending that much money on a basic design that is sixty years old rather than spending a bit more on a new design. A new design could incorporate all the other improvements such as better ergonomics and airbags etc that would allow it to sell in the USA. But to do a new design on a similar chassis has to be carefully weighed against the advantages of doing a new design that shares major chassis design with other models.

I don't think Toyota is worried about selling in Europe.

John

[Bush65]

...
Given my total lack of actual automotive knowledge, why is it that the Defender doesn't meet Euro pedestrian and emission laws (upcoming), and is something similar going to happen to the Toyota equivalent?
As I understand it, from 2012 Defender will also have to comply with ABS, SRS and stability control requirements.

[JDNSW]

As I understand it, from 2012 Defender will also have to comply with ABS, SRS and stability control requirements.

All of these could be added to the present basic design, but particularly SRS would require so much tooling that, again, they would have to look very carefully at whether a complete redesign to use the D3 platform would be a better approach.

John

[frantic]

Dmmos with the transit engine the defender puma should meet emission laws BUT the pedestrian impact laws are a major problem for any 4x4 as the height of a vehicle increases the impact area up towards the head and why if you look at many cars coming out of europe their noses and bonnets are getting lower and in some cases SOFTER( one of the hondas from memory) to lessen the impact upon a lattae sipping tech head with an iPod in 1 ear and their mobile in the other wandering out into city traffic!

[JamesH]

to lessen the impact upon a lattae sipping tech head with an iPod in 1 ear and their mobile in the other wandering out into city traffic!

:angel: You've just described me wandering around Mt Lawley when not in my Defender.

[PAT303]

The new defender will first and foremost need to be of military compliance.The Mod and many others buy defenders and LR would be silly to let the G wagon have all that market. Pat

[lardy]

This is the big IF : the G-wagen does more than say 200 sales in both petrol and diesel we will get both and i'll send you some worsticshire sauce to wash your hat down with.:D
But we should get both anyway as it would anihilate the wrangler rubi, the hummer wannabe and the toyota 7?? series as long as they restrain the price to a small increase on the current model and not a 5% cheaper disco/rrsport!
Heres a simple idea ! Make it with the 3.0 diesel and let there be LR specialist service centres in every decent sized outback town( read that as any with a toyota/ holden dealer) that hold a supply of spares with specialty parts shipped in express on a 1 day order from a dealer. This would mean serviceability in the outback without the large dealer overheads!

is that the same as Worcestershire sauce ???;)

[lardy]

Heres the pics of the tata based Model 2.2ltr

As you can see land rover are all about going forward not backward and twirling twirling always twirling.....

looks fugly

[lardy]

I know this is a bit off topic, but here's a link to a potential Land Rover Replacement for the Australian Army....

Thales Protected Mobility Vehicles (http://www.thalesprotectedmobility.com.au/tpm/pmvl.html)

The Thales Bushmasters are already being used - this is like it's smaller brother...

its been adopted in part by the brits as i understand it ...isn't it crap ?

[lardy]

The new defender will first and foremost need to be of military compliance.The Mod and many others buy defenders and LR would be silly to let the G wagon have all that market. Pat

Pat LR had a perfect vehicle to go up against the pinzgauer 4x4 and 6x6 but failed to develop it enough in the guise of the follow on for 101: 1986/7 with the hope of winning a contract from the Ministry of Defence (MoD) to replace its existing fleet of Land Rover 101 gun tractors. Heavily based on the contemporary Land Rover One Ten, the Llama was intended to be sold on both the military and civilian markets. However, the MoD did not choose Land Rover's design and without the security of these sales Land Rover was unwilling to risk putting the Llama on the market.
But the big fail was investment into the prototype,there are two of these still floating round Solihull today.
Wonder if Tata have the guts to put the money up to develop defender into a hybrid of yankee appeal the big market! ...what a thought better start storing parts up for ya pumas guys they could be on short parts runs.
I would be very surprised if the G-wagon made an impact over there they have looked at it before for the MOD but they were not takers!

[lardy]

Dmmos with the transit engine the defender puma should meet emission laws BUT the pedestrian impact laws are a major problem for any 4x4 as the height of a vehicle increases the impact area up towards the head and why if you look at many cars coming out of europe their noses and bonnets are getting lower and in some cases SOFTER( one of the hondas from memory) to lessen the impact upon a lattae sipping tech head with an iPod in 1 ear and their mobile in the other wandering out into city traffic!

To counter this land rover have already said they plan to make the bonnet of the new defender out of egg cartons and the bumper bar from factory will be made from ice cream although they may make a change to custard for the Australian market ;)

[spudfan]

Regarding all this talk about making the Defender comply with future safety requirements. Does this requirement apply to commercial vehicles too like Ford Transits and all the Japanese vans running about? If it is only for passenger vehicles Land Rover could keep the Defender and concentrate on the commercial end of things. Perhaps this would not be as profitable as I am sure that the passenger versions sell with a higher profit margin. If Land Rover could keep the Defender the only changes they would need to make to make it the world beater we know it has the potential to be, is to enforce very strict quality control on it's construction and on the parts they are supplied with.

[dullbird]

Regarding all this talk about making the Defender comply with future safety requirements.
Does this requirement apply to commercial vehicles too like Ford Transits and all the Japanese vans running about? If it is only for passenger vehicles Land Rover could keep the Defender and concentrate on the commercial end of things. Perhaps this would not be as profitable as I am sure that the passenger versions sell with a higher profit margin. If Land Rover could keep the Defender the only changes they would need to make to make it the world beater we know it has the potential to be, is to enforce very strict quality control on it's construction and on the parts they are supplied with.


I would say yes.....as go back a few years and look at what the tranists used to look like. they never had a bonnet...

when the pedestrian safety regs came in they had to redsign them to encorparte a bonnet....infact I believe a lot of them did this like the sprinters etc.

[solmanic]

I would say yes.....as go back a few years and look at what the tranists used to look like. they never had a bonnet...

Transits have always had bonnets as far as I can recall. If anything they have been getting smaller, but slopier.

[LR D4]

So when is it coming.... whats the goss ?????...