Detroit in the Back of a 101

[101RRS]

Following on from Ron's lead I have finally got around to start putting in a detroit soft locker in the rear of my 101. Ron has previously posted up some instructions - dunno where but I had them printed so here we go.

The 101 up on the ramps after I bashed out the ramps after one got squashed underneath after I backed over them - nearly did the same this time.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/100_0682.jpg

The job to do
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/100_0683.jpg

First drain out the oil - yuk - looks like muddy water :(. There is no water settling out though - maybe the breather has been sucking in dust in the past.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/100_0685.jpg

Remove the hubs and axles. The drivers side looks like the dust cover is glued on as I could not get it off so I just unbolted the lot as one unit. The wheel bearings are not greased bit oil filled - interestingly not with the muddy oil from the main diff - oil was well used but not muddy at all. So the oil seals are working well.

SO first question when the axles go back in - do I need to somehow fill the hubs with oil - if not how will the oil from main diff get to the wheel bearings at the start. Do I need to lower one side first and then the other to make the oil flow in?
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/100_0684.jpg
The passenger side axle has heavy surface rust just under the breather.

Removing the diff cover plate was straight forward.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/100_0686.jpg

Spreading the diff housing using Ron's homemade diff spreader - worked really well to slowly release the diff without the whole lot just falling out. Thanks Ron :)
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/100_0688.jpg

Removing the bearing cones brought quite a shock :(- and the diff is so quiet.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/100_0689.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/100_0690.jpg

Diff and locker
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/100_0691.jpg

The need for bearings brought the operation to a holt there. Canberra is a backwater and of course no one has the bearings and cones in stock so are now on order and will not arrive until mid next week - will add about $220 to the overall cost. I went to the local Diff Dr on the advice of the new Morwood Motors and interestingly he had just used the two bearings he usually carries on the shelf in a F250 Dana 70 diff in the morning - diff was still on its stand and old parts in the bin.

While writing this and thinking about things, I guess I should also pull the pinion bearing out and check it as well.

That is as far as I have got and will post up part two when I get the diff bearings. The only issue I am not sure of is whether to use the old shims off the small planetary gears, as the diff lock instructions are not clear - one area says yes and another says no - yellow the tag on the diff lock says to use them so I will do - unless someone says different:o.

Stay tuned.

Garry

[abaddonxi]

<snip> Ron has previously posted up some instructions - dunno where but I had them printed so here we go.
<snip>
Dunno where Ron101 originally posted them, but they are here-
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/good-oil/56982-diff-thread-lockers-breathers-shaving-removing.html#post917237
(http://www.aulro.com/afvb/good-oil/56982-diff-thread-lockers-breathers-shaving-removing.html)

[PeterP]

The 101 up on the ramps after I bashed out the ramps after one got squashed underneath after I backed over them - nearly did the same this time
Glad you got it on the ramps this time.

Is whats in the yellow container what came out of the diff? Hope the gear faces are OK. Pinion bearings would be a concern because what killed the bearing shown could have come in that way.Fraser and Morten Island are unforgiving in that way.

Spent today targeting the same thing. You are doing it the easy way though, I can show a much harder way. All you need beside the Detroit locker is a noisy pinion bearing and to fit the Haystees. Pulled the diff today and taking it to the first diff person that did not run when I mentioned Land Rover to do all bearings and shim up properly.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/11/1027.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/11/1028.jpg

Found the worst CanDo rust so far, had to bash the diff off the springs. The islands again.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/11/1029.jpg

Why is it always the last bolt? All going good until the last spring mount bolt. The bolts and centre bush are rusted and turning in the rubber bushing. This has caused some serious wear in the chassis spring mount (yet to be fully determined, perhaps the islands again.) Tomorrow is another day.

This months pics to date - LR101FC - Progress November 2009 (http://users.comcen.com.au/~peterp/LR101FC%20Progress/Nov09/index.html)

Do it easy.

Peter

[101 Ron]

Hi guys.
I have been with the local 4wd clud at the family property this week end and found the limits of a 101 winch........I will post pics when they down load into photo bucket.
The rear wheel bearings I pack with grease and this lubes them until the diff oil runs though.
The bearing just looks like wear and tear to me.
Garry you are lucky to catch the wear before any thing else was damaged.
I would now look at the pinion bearings and the problem with that is the diff must be set up correctly, turning a simple detroit install into a major job.
The little curved bushes behind the little diff centre pinion gears if I remember correctly are not used for the Detroit as is the little pinion gears .
DO NOT LET THE THOUGH BOLT BE UNDONE UNTIL THE DETROIT IS FULLY INSTALLED....or you will be trying to squish big heavy detroit springs back into place and you dont want to go there.

[101 Ron]

I am thinking with Peters rust in the spring saddle on the diff I should drill some little holes to let any water inside run out on my spring saddles.

[Blknight.aus]

NOOOO


dont drill the little holes...

pack the thing full of turntable grease before you replace the springs.

[101RRS]

The bearing just looks like wear and tear to me.
Garry you are lucky to catch the wear before any thing else was damaged.
I would now look at the pinion bearings and the problem with that is the diff must be set up correctly, turning a simple detroit install into a major job.


Yes - exactly. I looked at the workshop manual today and there are special parts (crush spacers etc) that are required. I do not have the facilities to setup the diff correctly so that will mean the whole rear axle coming out - like Peter has done - to go into the diff doctor for it to be set up.

I have not spun the pinion yet to get a feel how the bearings spin. If they spin OK I am tempted to put the lot back in and watch it carefully and do the work later at a more convenient time. If however they are dodgy then the 101 will be off the road for a while until I get it done. The Freelander needs a timing belt change and a new clutch so will take priority.

Garry

[justinc]

Garry,

You need to remove only the conical shaped thrusts, leave the side gear flat washers in. The housing where the pins fit will need diegrinding slightly to allow fitment, as you will see the housing/ hemisphere is split not quite on the centre line, consequently you will have to diegrind a little of the material off one half in order for the pins to sit in the housing.

You'll see what I meen when you get to that stage.

JC

[101RRS]

I have not spun the pinion yet to get a feel how the bearings spin. If they spin OK I am tempted to put the lot back in and watch it carefully and do the work later at a more convenient time.

The pinion runs free and easy with no binding, unusual noise or grittiness so as the diff had no obvious issues before pulling it apart I will leave it as is for the moment. I will be putting in an ARB locker in the front next year which will require that diff to be set up - I will do the same with the rear then.

In the worse case scenario, if the pinion bearings do start to go what are the symptoms that I can expect to see/hear/feel first?

Thanks

Garry

[101 Ron]

Diff pinion bearings will make a diff howl as the pinion starts to move out of correct mesh with the crown wheel a bit..
Sometimes the noise will only occur on a trailing throttle as the pinion can get sucked into a crown wheel a bit.
If there is no play and a little bit of preload in the pinion bearings it shouldnt make any noise or do anything wrong.
The question is one of long term reliablity with the pinion bearings.

[101RRS]

While waiting for my diff bearings to arrive I took the overdrive off my spare gearbox and put it on the back of the 101 transfer case. No real issues in doing it except for getting the rotten circlip back on the gearbox output shaft. I tied a piece of cotton onto it in case it fell down in the pto section of the tfr case. A couple of holes in the ends of the circlip so pliers could be used would have been really helpful. The O/d shows little evidence of wear and all the bearing seem to turn OK. Only time will tell. All I need to do not is make up a lever to go in the main lever bracket up in the cab.

Also while waiting for the bearings I pulled the diff carrier apart and put in the locker. I assume it does not matter which way it goes around so I just put it in the same way as the pics in the instructions. The four lugs on the locker must be slightly larger in diameter than the original side gear shafts - when the diff carrier is bolted up there is a .9mm gap in the two halves when originally there was none - I pulled it apart to make sure everything went in correctly which it was so I left it.

The inner race of the diff bearings were a real pain to get off even with a little heat. When putting on the new bearings I put the diff in the freezer for a day before hand and the -20 temp made putting on the new bearings was a breeze.

I wish putting the diff back in was as easy - the diff spreader came off when under tension and nearly took my finger with it but I managed to get it out of the way. The spreader was working loose from the holes in the diff as I tightened it but once I realized this I just tapped it a bit to keep the prongs in the holes.

The diff would not go into position and was sitting higher in the housing than it should and would not go in. A mash hammer - cushioned by a few leather gloves - did the job of pushing the diff down to the correct level and tightening the bearing cap bolts pulled the diff in.

Thats as far as I have got to so far - just gotta clean up all the mating surfaces fot the cover, screw it on and put the axles back in - new oil in the diff, O/D and tfr case and we are back on the road.

Garry

[101RRS]

Diff lock is in - a few teething problems but nothing major. O/D is in and again nothing major (just need to make up a lever and install), new UJs in the rear drive shaft - first one went in OK but one needle in the second one fell out of position during installation so I had to pull it out again and reinstall - finally went back in.

Test drive without engine cover and gearbox cover went well, albeit very noisy and hot (viscous coupling has had it - thankfully seized rather than slipping). It is amazing the noises and clunks you hear when the covers are off. The noise from the front driveshaft is ten times as loud but it is clear that the noise comes from the gearbox end rather than the diff end.

The detroit in the rear is not noticeable and even with the covers off I could not hear is disengaging when cornering hard - no change to handling, if fact you would be hard pressed to know it was there. As Ron has indicated drivetrain backlash is marginally greater but is not really noticeable.

The O/D seems good - no apparent noises when out of O/D. I need to make a lever up and connect the cable up to test it in O/D.

Cheers

Garry

[101 Ron]

The cable needed is the same as the transfer high / low cable.
The cir clip for the O/D is easy using special flat tipped pliers.
I carry the pliers with my 101 and will show you at stockton.
Find a spare series landrover yellow four wheel drive engage/ disengaged knob for the O/D lever which you are going to make from a piece of scrap steel.
The detroit is going to bang a few times on its first hard off road work until it wears in a bit and settles down.
The more miles you do the better it gets.
You will love the extra traction on a bit of mud or rock work.
In the sand it makes no difference.

[101 Ron]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/09/927.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/1255.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/1254.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/1260.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/1258.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/1257.jpg

[101 Ron]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/1256.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/1262.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/1261.jpg

[Lotz-A-Landies]

O.K Guys Now my questions: How much did it cost?
Can it be done on a 4.7:1 Salisbury?
Ron do you want to help me?

:)

Diana


BTW great job everyone :BigThumb:

[101RRS]

O.K Guys Now my questions:

How much did it cost?
Can it be done on a 4.7:1 Salisbury?
Ron do you want to help me?


:)

Diana


BTW great job everyone :BigThumb:

I bought mine from Kieth at RoverTracks in Colorado in the US cost about $500USD and about $150USD shipping - a lot cheaper than buying here.

]101 salisbury detroits are a little different (because of the larger axles) to other landy stuff. As such the price for normal sals stuff is about $50 more expensive.

The unexpected stuff costs a bit - two new bearings $240. Is relatively easy but with diversions a bit more than the claimed couple of hours.

I have been driving my truck around a bit today and you would never know it was there - have been doing tight turns no clunking - no changed handling - with the engine/gearbox covers on even the slack in the drivetrain is not noticeable.

I still have Rons diff spreader - was intending to use it again early next year to put in an ARB air locker in the front.

Cheers

Garry

[101 Ron]

Hi Diana
The detroit is a easy fit to a normal series landrover with a salisbury diff.
For a constant 4wd system like the 101 and defender landies the detroit is my first choice.
For a part time system I would choose the ARB locker or a better torque locking diff centre like trutrac.
The detroit and its copy cat systems will make city driving a problem.
The effect of the constand 4wd systems sharing the normal drive load hides the short comings of a Auto locker.
The arb can be much more expensive to fit. but when fitted correctly works well enough and you will need a air supply of 90 psi.
Trutrac should work well in a series sals and be a easy install.
All the different lockers have good and bad points.
A axle up grade would be recomended for a sals in a series, county, or defender rover for any locker
The 101 because of the larger drive axle gets away without a up grade.

[ashtrans]

Hi guys,

I have a couple of 101 Detroits I have had sitting on the shelf for ages which I can do real cheap to move them.

pls email me if you would like a price,

Ashcroft Transmissions (http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk)

Dave

[101 Ron]

I notice Garrys detroit worked well on the Wallaroo quarry play area on the Stockton run.
The lockers are working so well that both both Garry and my self were forgeting to lock the transfercase centre diff.
Garry once or twice gave his 101 a bit of curry traction/ diff wise and no problems(I didnt think Garry had it in him).
The detroit is a very good up grade for a 101 with little risk of busting anything with standard rubber and improves the 101s grip in the bush greatly over that of stock.

[101RRS]

Yep - the detroit works really well in the 101. You do not know it is there for everyday driving - was not an issue at all in soft sand and worked really well in the hard going - even had both rear tyres smoking at one stage. It also helps to tell when you forget the centre diff lock as sometimes neither back wheels were turning and we knew they should be as the diff lock is there.:D

Money well spent in my view.

Garry

[DODGE]

Gday all

Have purchased a detroit from dave at ashcroft trans and its on its way here as we speak. cant wait to get it in. also thanks to dave for a great price. for the price they wanted for one in perth i could have bought 3 of daves landed in perth and still had change:eek:.

Cheers gaz:)

[101RRS]

Gaz - you will be happy with it. Heard mine click for the first time the other day but was doing a tight turn in a carpark - in everyday use on the road you will not know it is there.

Garry