Gazza's ARB has issues

[CheekyD1]

Ok I have had it with :censored: ARB Locka’s :mad: [bigsad]
But for the front what choice do we have?
Ideally a Maxi-Drive is the go, but being hard to find and or expensive.

So I would like to go through the Can Buy New options and if anybody has used or heard reports of, please let me know


I like the OX because they are similar to the Maxi inside, simple to use and always work but I dislike the cable exposed to rocks at the front of the diff.

Same problem with the Electrak Detroit, I love my No Slip in the rear of the Jeep, but the electric motor on the diff hat of the electronic Detroit has to get hit. (anybody tried one ???)
Detroit Locker 1 (http://www.motivegear.com/MotiveWeb/posiLocker/detroitinfo.htm)


Trutracks are a good option but LSD's (which TruTracks are the best IMHO) are just not a full locka are they..

ARB's stop working too much.

Has anybody tried the Auburngear Ected Electric Locka ???
Leading Manufacturer of Traction Enhancing Differentials & Planetary Drives - Auburn Gear (http://www.auburngear.com/)
Worries me that they have only two (not 4) cross pins.

Know another option I have not thought of ??


Cheers

Gary

[Psimpson7]

Would it not be cheaper and easier to sort the ARB? What is wrong with it?

I have never had an issue with one in the last 5 or 6 years. IMO almost all the issues relate to poor fitment.

Rgds
Pete

[harry]

:cool::o:cool:

it's a jeep thing, i don't understand


:wasntme:

[long stroke]

The ARB lockers in the county are second hand and havn't given any probs yet apart from abit of diff oil leaking into the rear air line but it still work fine (keeping in mind it could be pretty old) i bought a second hand one for my d1 and got new seals etc put in works as good as new!!

Maybe you have the old style ARB, aparently they give more probs than the newer model (no first hand experiance though).

CHEERS TIM.

[CheekyD1]

Would it not be cheaper and easier to sort the ARB? What is wrong with it?

Rgds
Pete

I found one of the cross pins and some crunchy bits in the diff hat when we pulled it off.
It has been making bearing spinning noises for a while, stopping stoped the noises, so it was hard to pin point, but made clunking noises on the weekend that would not go away.



The ARB lockers in the county are second hand and havn't given any probs yet apart from abit of diff oil leaking into the rear air line but it still work fine (keeping in mind it could be pretty old) i bought a second hand one for my d1 and got new seals etc put in works as good as new!!

Maybe you have the old style ARB, aparently they give more probs than the newer model (no first hand experiance though).

CHEERS TIM.

Yes Tim it is the older model, and I suspect it had a few Kms on it, having said that, I have two now and have had to remove them several times to make them work. The activating method is not the best. IMO. on either model. Grimace has looked into both.

[Xtreme]

Know another option I have not thought of ??

Cheers

Gary

I don't know if you've thought of it, but there doesn't seem to be much mention of the Kam Difflock on the forum.
[edit] Just found a thread on Kam Difflocks here http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/86600-kam-diff-lockers.html but haven't read it yet. [end edit]

No experience personally but a friend is currently fitting one to his Td5 Defender - unit looks very well engineered and strong but fitment is quite involved.

Link to the Kam websire here KAM Differentials Limited (http://www.kamdiffs.com/military.php?l=KAM_Difflock&link=KAM_Difflock5446)

Maybe another option.

[long stroke]

I found one of the cross pins and some crunchy bits in the diff hat when we pulled it off.
It has been making bearing spinning noises for a while, stopping stoped the noises, so it was hard to pin point, but made clunking noises on the weekend that would not go away.




Yes Tim it is the older model, and I suspect it had a few Kms on it, having said that, I have two now and have had to remove them several times to make them work. The activating method is not the best. IMO. on either model. Grimace has looked into both.

Ah ok, maybe Jmac lockers then;)
Aparently they are good.........

[weeds]

i have had no issues with my twin arb lockers, mine have been fitted >6 years.........i reckon it just a mith in the land rover world

[jaffa]

hey Gaz i think it doest matter what brand it is they all have problems and all break as you may know greg and i have both broken maxi drives . at least a broken arb can be fixed a broken maxi is now an expensive paper weight "hope MR start building them again".
from what ive found the detroit stuff is the strongest most comp trucks in the US run these in the rear at least
Im actually in the process of pulling the maxis out of my car to put in arb for the simple fact that when i break it i can fix it .
This is just my opinion sure you'll get many varying ones have fun sorting through..
ps jac macs are good especially his hypoids.
cheers darren.

[THE 109]

Garry
I bought my arb's 2nd hand and they would be about 10yrs old now,sure I've broken bits and had to shim them from wear but they're easy to work on and the parts are readily available.ARB's prices for new parts are quite acceptable too.Never had any issues with them not working unless I knew that something major was wrong,like a broken crown wheel or half shaft.
Eric

[disco_thrasher]

I know the feeling when something starts going wrong you just want it out and different put in

i ran the old arbs in my Landcruiser for 4yrs and had to pull it out and replace bolts twice

now running the new upgraded arb front and back and they have being no probs, i being told by Glen and tony at arb burleigh they have changed structure and design of the bolts and increased the amount of them so this is not a issue any more ,at least with arb lockas anywhere in australia you can get them fixed or get parts as most areas have atleast one shop or supplier

i reckon get the new ones while the special is still on
my 2 cents
Kelvin

[Grimace]

Gary,

First up I just want to say I am not even a fan of the ARB branding, but unfortunately for the manual activated lockers they are up there with the best (yes even if you take into acount the thousands of oil return dramas).

The actual locking mechanism on the arb is a very good design, it's the way that mechanism is activated that is not so great. In the old style it was prone to leaking and blowing seals, this has been changed on the new style (RD128), but for reasons unknown, they swapped the feed to the opposite side of the crwon wheel. This meaning that the airline has to be routed over the crown wheel inside the diff, some vehicles would have less then 10mm of clearance in this area. That's a slight concern to me.

back on topic - The fact that you have parts of the locker floating around inside the diff tells me that maybe this ARB has not had the best treatment in the past, and possibly some assembly issues.

Has this locker ever had a crown wheel spit a few teeth? The main (well only actually) reason I have found ARB lockers to destroy the carrier gears is due to foreign bits of crown wheel or pinion entering the carrier and running between the side & sun gears.

As for locking problems, slow engagement of the locker is generally considered normal, but if it is of concern, things to check are, leaks or kinks in the airline, pressure switch for correct pressure activation, the locker should have 80-105psi feeding the airlines, if it is less the activation can be very slow or not at all.

So what options do you have? Well personally unless you are willing to fork out for a brand new McNamurra locker, just fix the ARB. The KAM locker is in no way my preffered choice of locker and I would struggle to reccomend it to anyone.

Good luck, hope you sort something out soon, I know how frustrating it can be when you have something that just doesn't work as it should. But stick to it and you shall sucseed (sp?) :D

[dungarover]

Had both maxi and ARB's over the past 10 years, the ARB's have been pretty good. The rear was new and fitted by ARB (did surprisingly enough a ggood job, could have changed the pinion seal :mad:) and has the HT 24 spline axles, front I got for a trade on my LRA 2 1/2 body lift kit that I had fitted to the Vog.

I also had a ARB aiur locker on one of my old Rangies in the past, which was a right PIA (self-install) and I had all sorts of issues with the o-ring as it would always leak. I ended up sellling it and using the money to fund the front maxi-drive at the time.

I still prefer Maxi-drives, would still have them if you could get parts easily enough plus my rear maxi was a real old 28 spline so parts were as rare as rocking horse **** to start with :eek:

Trav

[CheekyD1]

Thanks to all who have thrown in their 20 cents worth on this issue.

Tim do you have a link to Jmac

Grimace You have looked into the heart of the new style ARB, is the activating method better than the Rubber Cup Washer used in the earlier ones, to push the plastic cage.

That was the last time I (read Harry) pulled out the ARB apart, the cup washer was seized in place.

Time before that the small O-Rings had warn the collar away. Hiss Hiss air leaking into diff housing. (in and out 3 times to fix that one)
PS parts for older style not in stock, kept getting sent parts for new style which did not fit, told that they would but no way.
Thanks to South Brisbane ARB at Cooperoo who were the only ARB to make sense and keep on the case till they found the correct thing.
They also have a cool test track, which they were kind enough to let me have a rip on, inspired our Test Track at Terranora.

Time before that the air line melted, no more locka working, just continuous compressor noise.

As for this time, I don’t know what the go is till I pull the centre completely out. I have had an industry conference this week so fix the ARB has had to wait, hopefully this Friday

Really not sure of the wisdom of forking out folding stuff for a New one???

While on the subject, I priced a winch extension strap from ARB it was nearly double the price of the same OX from TJM…..

Stay tuned

Gaz

[long stroke]

Thanks to all who have thrown in their 20 cents worth on this issue.

Tim do you have a link to Jmac

Grimace You have looked into the heart of the new style ARB, is the activating method better than the Rubber Cup Washer used in the earlier ones, to push the plastic cage.

That was the last time I (read Harry) pulled out the ARB apart, the cup washer was seized in place.

Time before that the small O-Rings had warn the collar away. Hiss Hiss air leaking into diff housing. (in and out 3 times to fix that one)
PS parts for older style not in stock, kept getting sent parts for new style which did not fit, told that they would but no way.
Thanks to South Brisbane ARB at Cooperoo who were the only ARB to make sense and keep on the case till they found the correct thing.
They also have a cool test track, which they were kind enough to let me have a rip on, inspired our Test Track at Terranora.

Time before that the air line melted, no more locka working, just continuous compressor noise.

As for this time, I don’t know what the go is till I pull the centre completely out. I have had an industry conference this week so fix the ARB has had to wait, hopefully this Friday

Really not sure of the wisdom of forking out folding stuff for a New one???

While on the subject, I priced a winch extension strap from ARB it was nearly double the price of the same OX from TJM…..

Stay tuned

Gaz



Here you go..

Jack McNamara - Differential Specialists (http://www.mcnamaradiffs.com.au/)

Aparently he is realy hard to deal with but his products are as good as maxi-drive;)

TIM.

[nice1guv]

apart from abit of diff oil leaking into the rear air line
CHEERS TIM.

Check out the breather tube on the diff, possibly blocked maybe at the banjo fitting, thus oil down the air line.

[953]

Read my thread, rang Jacmac today.Everyone one says his product is good, but u might have to wait a while if u want one.
Cheers Dean.

[GuyG]

I still prefer Maxi-drives, would still have them if you could get parts easily enough plus my rear maxi was a real old 28 spline so parts were as rare as rocking horse **** to start with :eek:

Trav


Trav, one advantage of the 28 spline maxi's is that most parts are still available. Barry still has some stock of axles and MR have plenty of side gears also which is the main component that are not available in the 24 spline maxi's.

[CheekyD1]

Ok for all the viewers watching along.

It was diff center removal day today.

http://dedq15.mindfly.com/uploads/PDF/onlineManualsGuides/2-RD07.pdf (http://dedq15.mindfly.com/uploads/PDF/onlineManualsGuides/2-RD07.pdf)

Remember from previous posts, the Small Cross Pin (Number 7 in PDF above) was found in the bottom of the diff housing along with some other crunchy parts.

The crunchy parts, turned out to be the Small bolts which hold the hemi-sphere together. (12)

They were in various states of munched-up-ness.

Some other metal filings were also discovered in the diff sump, this turned out to be the small pins (5) which usually hold the Cross pins in place.

So the failure
The small bolts have come undone (Why I don’t know they were torque up to the manual setting Harry is anal about that stuff) this allowed the retaining pins to exit the cross pins, the side gears then spun the cross pins which made the retaining pins into metal dust. (Completely gone)

How the small cross pin got out beats me, to get the other 3 pins out I have to remove the Crown wheel.

The worst part is that the housing (3) is deformed, I don’t know if it will work, it usually locates part 10 in place, it is still flat but the running loose have deformed the lip, such that only the bolts them selves would be holding (10) in place.

The good news, (3) is only $250 and the pins and retainers + bolts about $50

The Bad news delivery time on (3) is 8-10 weeks.

The rest is in stock in Brisbane.

So what to do, do I slap it back together with all the new bits I can get into the old case. $50
Put an open center in an wait
Buy new style locka $1200

PS for those looking for ARB Locka manuals they are on the ARBUSA.com site @ http://www.arbusa.com/Products/Air-Lockers/10.aspx Click on Air Lockers then Parts ans Service

[harry]

scrap the jeep and buy another land rover v8,
i might just know where there is a 3.9 ready to go,
with some good mods, but some stuff may not go with it.

[buzz66]

That cross pin design is ****ed in my opinion.

While your diff appears to have failed because of bolts coming loose on the crown. The fact ARB have a design in the center that allows for additional misalignment of the spider gears because of the overcomplicated shaft setup, is woeful.

ALL the best designs like Maxi Drive,LT230 Center diff, Mac Namara ETC ALL have a split hemisphere with the split the center at of the cross shaft's to allow for a more rigid simple, longer lasting design.

[harry]

i have seen the dead centre, and thought about it for a while,
can't see why it all fell apart, but it would seem that the bolts holding the centre together failed and fell out, possibly, allowing the cross shaft pins to back out into the bolt holes of the carrier cover, and allowed the shafts to move out,
theory onlt, but i will lookinto it further, still don't understand why it all came loose, this was in the heep front diff, and there is no way the cover can move away fron the centre.

[CheekyD1]

For those who are following this thread with a mind to not having an ARB.

You may now go down to your local ARB and Bear down on them with Furious Anger and tell them just what you think of their locka held together by six small bolts.

Here are two alternatives; I have found Suits Salisbury at least, not sure about Rover, probally soon.

http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/ProductsServices/PerformanceProducts/Products/Differentials/Elocker/index.htm'ssSourceNodeId=5334&ssSourceSiteId=EatonCom (http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/ProductsServices/PerformanceProducts/Products/Differentials/Elocker/index.htm'ssSourceNodeId=5334&ssSourceSiteId=EatonCom)

http://www.auburngear.com/aftermarket/product_listing.aspx?category=8946f7ff-e4b5-4b07-b738-c6f9d7f93179 (http://www.auburngear.com/aftermarket/product_listing.aspx?category=8946f7ff-e4b5-4b07-b738-c6f9d7f93179)


I personally like the Eaton because it is a related company to Detroit who make great Lockers. For a Salisbury Rear (IMO) there is no other choice than a No Slip Detroit.
The ELocker looks nice and strong in the pictures and simple to install, no housing modifications, except a hole for the wires.

This is whats left of 6 small bolts and 3 pins, note the elongation of the holes in the cross pins.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/11/349.jpg

The Hemisphere used to be round and fitted the top snugly, opps. :wasntme:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/11/350.jpg

[Psimpson7]

Gaz,

Surely if the bolts came loose and fell out thats not the fault of the locker? What would you expect to happen if the bolts fell out?

How many and what size bolts woudl you prefer? If 6 fell out whats would have stopped 8, 10 or 12 doing the same?

Rgds
Pete

[CheekyD1]

Gaz,

Surely if the bolts came loose and fell out thats not the fault of the locker? What would you expect to happen if the bolts fell out?

How many and what size bolts woudl you prefer? If 6 fell out whats would have stopped 8, 10 or 12 doing the same?

Rgds
Pete

Here is a picture of the eaton eLocker, I like it because the load bearing hemisphere is held togeather by the very large very strong bolts and flange that hold the crown wheel on.
Better design IMHO.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/11/344.jpg

[Psimpson7]

Maybe, but what would happen if the bolts fell out!?

[harry]

the real question is why the bolts came out, and this was a diff centre that was not new, and i put it together, and torqued the bolts to arb's specs, and locktite'd them
i actually don't think the arb product is at fault,perhaps loaded past it's design limit.
and i really need to look at it further to establish why it came loose and worked the bolts out, like arb have made thousands of these, so why don't we hear of this more often.
my arb in my land rover is the same, although not that older design, and not worked as hard perhaps, and it also has been pulled right down and reassembled by me, so mine isn't loose, why did gaz's go bust?
perhaps it's a heep [jeep] thing?

[dungarover]

My arb front locker is identical to Gazzas (10 spline RD03 type) and so far it's been trouble-free and I was told that it could be problematic as it had a hard life. I just fitted mine up change the oil once and it's been good for the 8 nmonths I've had it.

The rear is the newer RD128 design and that has been superb (should be for the $$ that it cost :eek:). I've heard of the same issues you're having a couple of times but it's not something that is commonplace.

Trav

[Psimpson7]

Hey Harry, This was the locker that was bought second hand wasnt it. Could its past history be suspect

[lardy]

i posted this last week i believe this is what you need completley mechanical happy days Ashcroft Transmissions (http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_117.html)
or: http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_5.html

[Psimpson7]

Why would you want an LSD? Wouldnt even be on my list of things to consider.

[buzz66]

I say go the LSD Gazza. You need to take a bit of magic out of that Disco..:p

[CheekyD1]

OK I have to make note of the fact that ARB's new design does have a single piece hemisphere, Hats off to them for that.

Having pulled this Locker out too many times to count, for the issues listed below:.

1. Air leaking from the O rings
2. Cup Washer seized Locker not engaging x 2
3. Broken Plastic cage, locker engaged and will not disengage
4. Bolts came out – Thing Kaput

3 out of the 4 issues remain in the new design, especially the O-Rings which are rotating the whole time the car is moving.


I think the bolts came out because they are only 5 mm instead of 14 mm or more.

I dont think I will buy another one.

Gaz

[harry]

I say go the LSD Gazza. You need to take a bit of magic out of that Disco..:p
the problem diff is [was] in the jeep,
not the disco.

[buzz66]

ohhh.....:eek:

That explains a lot.

[lardy]

Why would you want an LSD? Wouldnt even be on my list of things to consider.

yeah but at the same time you gain a system that is completley mechanical rather than a system that has mutiple failures, from the smallest of weaknesses surely it would be better than that.

[cookiesa]

The appication and parts are also on the Australian ARB web site. Go products, lockers, service and parts manual

[Shamo]

Sorry to be a little bit off topic but this seems to be the place where people know alot about arb lockers haha.

I was having a play in my D2 today out at our block and i put the locker on and it didnt seem to be doing as well as usual and then when i turned it off, the air "psst" that usually comes out was sounding a bit wet....

So i turned the thing on and off for a bit because i thought it must have been blocked by some dirt or something, and then i just started to smell diff oil (the compressor is under the drivers seat) and i looked down and there was diff oil all over the back of my legs.....

What the hell has happened! there is some oil at the bottom of the diff centre (pretty standard usually) but there doesnt seem to be any oil coming out or around where the air line goes in ontop... does this mean that the line inside hasnt been put in properly or has broken some how?

Two options;

I stuff around with it myself taking it out or;
Take it to ARB and say it's their problem (they installed the locker into the diff centre but i put the diff centre back in the car) so i'm not sure where i stand in terms of warranty.... i know if its fully stuffed then i can get it covered but weather or not they would make me take it out or they would do it...

Shamo

[cookiesa]

Usually caused by a blocked diff breather. If yours have been extended make sure the filter hasn't had some wasps move in or the hose has ended up kinked.

There is also a purge valve kit which I'd recommend fitting, especially if you have a compressor mounted in a vehcile. It allows you to drain moisture etc from the airline periodically and also has a back pressure valve to alleviate the oil issue.