My first post and my s3 diesel ute

[Muckinhell]

Hi everyone!
I have been a memeber for a little while now just researching landrover series 3 beasts and a couple of weeks ago i won a 81 s3 diesel ute on ebay. I have just got it back home today and have had my first real look at it and it is rather surprising for and old site unseen (other than ebay photos) truck. the chassis is free from rust so far and the fire wall, the diesel does run, but only had it going so far to get it on the trailer in brissy and my bro in law managed to get it started, and i havnt had it started yet again today, so i will be studying my manual to see whats going on, but so far i have narrowed it down to the fuel pump cut out lever cable has disconnected from it. (please offer any advice on starting a diesel in the right procedure). This vehicle is a bit strange in it has coil springs helping the orginal leaf springs on the front axel, i have heard of this on the rear but the front is puzzling. Should make for slighty smoother ride i hope. The interior has original head linning (intact but dirty and interior light, not working) and all tear free seats that seem original as well.

My plans are to get it roadworthy and to use it as my daily work vehicle and maybe some wknd local camping and fishing etc,

this is my second s3 as i originally started with a ex mil s3 troopy i converted to 202 with high range transfer case and rewired etc and that wasnt in as good nick chassis wise as this ute. I traded the troopy on a 84 rang rover wich i had for a year but started looking round for a s2 disco diesel or defender, but happened across a 97 80 series landcruiser (It had to many mods to pass up) that i have owned for the last 10 years and have done many more mods on and is my holiday tourer and thus why i dont wanna use it to drive to work and around etc.

I have always missed me old s3 and thats why i took a chance on this ute and so far other than the starting issus am impressed condition wise.

So any tips or hints with the s3 diesel would be greatly appreciated. I have researched one other fellas awsome mods for a s3 diesel but anything else would be great as well. Thanks in advance and enjoy my photos.

well here are a couple of photos from todays adventure.:)

[The ho har's]

welcome to you:D

there are plenty of other AULROian's up your way;) My series 3 will be ready for rego very soon:D


Mrs ho har:angel:

[lro11]

Great Truck. I am currently restoring the same vehicle so it is good to see more diesels being saved.

[JDNSW]

Looks to have promise. The coil helper springs will be to carry the weight of the dirty great winch on the front bumper - unless you need that I would remove it and sell to help the restoration - it will improve performance and steering!

I would be inclined to have a very good look at the hose from the air cleaner to the intake manifold - the last thing you want is for it to be letting dust in. I would also be inclined to find a correct oil filler cap - this is also an engine breather, and without the two breathers (that and the one on the rocker cover) crankcase ventilation will not be very good, and you are likely to end up with condensation inside the engine, which will not do anything any good.

As far as starting that engine goes, the correct procedure (in your climate) is to ensure it is in neutral and operate the starter by turning the key. Should start immediately. If it has been run out of fuel or the filters changed, the fuel system will need bleeding. Stopping is by pulling the engine stop knob, which you say is disconnected.

In my experience the interior light rarely works - look for burnt out wires due to their rubbing through the insulation - vibration is a problem with that engine, particularly idling cold or if the idling speed is set too low.

John

[Muckinhell]

thanks JDNSW, if the stop knob cable has come off the stop lever would it be keeping the engine shut down when i try to start it ?

and yes i deffinantly was going to remove the winch and sell it on, any ideas what it might be worth?

[Blknight.aus]

the winch is worth nothing, send it up to me COD.

check the glow plugs for voltibars, if you have the current limiting resistor up on the fire wall you can get away with bypassing one of the glow plugs, rememebr the glowplugs hook up in series and a 3v units.

to start if you push both levers on the pump unit down as far as they will go then you are in the full fuel position. the upper most lever is the fuel control lever (thats not its proper name but it'll do for now) and the lower lever is the fuel cut off control.

there are 2 3/8th bleeder nuts on the front side of the injector pump crack both of these while operating the priming lever on the fuel pump to bleed the fuel system

they will start without glowing even in the coldest of weather but it takes a looooot of cranking.

[dromader driver]

Well,

I used to have one of these series in pretty much the same config. Now on my brother in law's farm and I drive a defender.
Things to consider
- put an oil flush through the engine if the oil is the usual crook looking stuff and don't forget the oil bath air cleaner.
- I changed to the later style glow plugs as the old ones were not very effective when really cold. Also you don't loose all of them when one fails.
- top speed is about 55mph with lots of noise but 50 was good on the flat.
- if it is a 3 main crankshaft don't over rev it. it gets expensive.
- I rebuilt my engine after a crank failure eastbound coming out of bathurst on a long climb with a good load on the back.
- the postal service gets bits from the UK in about a week. Compare prices as the old stuff is getting expensive.
- my springs were pretty well siezed so stripped and cleaned with a LITTLE molly grease. Got rid of a lot of rattles and bangs.
- change all the other oils to reduce corrosion.
- keep the brake adjustments up and they work reasonably well. Mine didn't have the power assistance mod.

Hope this helps.

[Muckinhell]

thanks for all the advice guys.
I have since been looking it over and have found it doesnt have the butterfly vacum service on it so it must have the rotary exhauster somewhere, but where is that located? i have a onwer workshop manual but it doesnt show its location. the vacum pipe from the breaks is just sitting freely near the heater box so i assume its in there somewhere perhaps but nothing in that area resembles the exploded pic in the manual.

[isuzurover]

thanks for all the advice guys.
I have since been looking it over and have found it doesnt have the butterfly vacum service on it so it must have the rotary exhauster somewhere, but where is that located? i have a onwer workshop manual but it doesnt show its location. the vacum pipe from the breaks is just sitting freely near the heater box so i assume its in there somewhere perhaps but nothing in that area resembles the exploded pic in the manual.

If the vac pipe is disconnected, someone may have removed the butterfly. Whatever you do don't reinstall it!

[Muckinhell]

ok i wasnt going to reinstall the vac pipe to the butterfly but i still need a vac source for the brakes wont I from the rotary exhauster if it has one?

also update i got the horn to work and the interior light does work when a bulb is placed in it and it is surprisingly bright.

[isuzurover]

ok i wasnt going to reinstall the vac pipe to the butterfly but i still need a vac source for the brakes wont I from the rotary exhauster if it has one?

also update i got the horn to work and the interior light does work when a bulb is placed in it and it is surprisingly bright.


Yes, you will need either an alternator with integral vacuum pump or a 12V vacuum pump.

[Muckinhell]

ok, so i know there are alternators out there for 3-4 hundred dollars, but where would i get a suitable 12vac pump from, i have searched this forum with no luck so far and also googled em with out much success for this application. so where can i get an original rotary exhauster or the whereabouts it may be located in my engine bay if it has one?

[Muckinhell]

ok so update on the ole ute. i spend the last 5 hours trying to get the ole diesel going again with no luck. there is plenty of turning over power the fuel seems to be pumping where it should be. i checked the heater plugs and found the the first one near the resistor has a gap in it and wast making current flow. so might i ask that someone may know how the glow plugs are wired up? apparently in series as is said earlier in this thread. but how are they wired with the ceramic insulators etc?????

and what other cause may be not helping in starting it??? as i said we did get it going last week to get it on the trailer but i had to stall it to stop it as i wasnt aware of the stop knob wich has since disconected from the stop lever as well....

any advice graetly appreciated or anyone in hervey bay area who knows a thing or 2 about the diesels pls pm me or leave contact info for some advice thanks or few beers for time spent helping with it thanks.

[chazza]

If the engine-stop is disconnected, is it shutting off fuel flow to the pump permanently?

[dromader driver]

Muckin, a few things to try.

1. Check fuel is in tank.

2. manually pump up fuel pressure using the tickler lever under the fuel pump. crack the bleeders on the pump to ensure no foamy fuel coming out. Pump til clean fuel comes out the nip up.

3. Ensure the battery is giving good cranking speed.

4. Crank with foot flat to floor.

5. Disconnect the shut off lever actuating cable and ensure the rack is fully open. Push it onto the open stop. Try cranking again.

6. Loosen the large nut on the end of the injector at the pipe coming from injector pump. Crank with foot flat to floor and watch for bubbles. If foamy you have air in system. If necessary loosen the other injectors and close whilst cranking when clean fuel comes out. ( wear safety glasses) Watch it may fire.

7. I rarely needed glow plugs of either type on my old machine. If necessary make up a bridging electrical cable for the glow plug you think is U/S. Don't give it more than 10 seconds and crank immediately.

8. If all this doesn't work remove the air intake tube from the inlet manifold. Hold a two stroke soaked rag over the intake whilst cranking with foot flat to floor. Hang onto the rag!!

Working overseas but back in BNE just before christmas if you haven't got it going by then.

Cheers :p

[Muckinhell]

chazza the fuel flow is disconnected but i can move the stop lever to the off postion without an issue.
dromader driver thanks for all your tips ill try all these tommorow cept the fuel in the tank bit cause we poured 20 litres in last sat and the gauge reades 1/4 full thus far, and bought brand new n70 at repco last sat as well so she winds over no worries at all. although i havnt done flat to the floor yet. no6 ill be trying tomorow as well as i was advised by a diesel mech from the mines to try this as well.
ill let you know how it ends up thanks for the replies.

[Muckinhell]

Ok guys the ute is going....I tried first this morn cracking one of the injectors to see how the fuel was with or without air and it was fine so then i remebered after dromader drivers suggestion number 8 that i had a can of aerostart in the shed and gave this ago, well she fired up straight away and has been chugging away all day now when i have needed to move it...am very happy and so is the missus...

couple pics of the ute all clean after hours of high pressure cleaning the engine and everything else, the interior hood linning came up a treat and is white again instead of black and the motor almost looks new again. ZI on the other hand took almost as long to clean up in the shower as well but thats old landys for ya.

[Sleepy]

Congrats on getting her going. Dont ya just love that clackity-clack of an old diesel.

Someone mentioned to me a suitable alternator with vac pump...I'll find out which one....another job for me...:angel:

[korg20000bc]

Have you seen that Aerostart-like product called "Start-ya-bastard!"?
It always gives me a giggle.

[Muckinhell]

Yep love that old diesel chatter specially with out a exhaust system from half way back......and that alternator info would be greatly appreciated thanks sleepy.

and yeah korg thats what i was telling people what it was cause it sounds funnier.

Also if anyone has a diagram of how the stop cable fits to the injector pump and how the springs are connected at both ends that would be greatly appreciated as well as my manual is very sparse on that info, and diagrams. thanks....

[isuzurover]

ok, so i know there are alternators out there for 3-4 hundred dollars, but where would i get a suitable 12vac pump from, i have searched this forum with no luck so far and also googled em with out much success for this application. so where can i get an original rotary exhauster or the whereabouts it may be located in my engine bay if it has one?

Sorry, only just saw your thread.

An alternator with a vac pump may be the cheapest option. However a place like this can sell you a small one. Just tell them you want a small, cheap, continuous duty vacuum pump:
Industrial Vacuum Pumps Melbourne, Vacuum Solutions Australia - Mini Oil-less Pumps (http://vacuumsolutions.com.au/minioil.htm)

[Muckinhell]

awsome thanks for that find isuzurover.

[isuzurover]

awsome thanks for that find isuzurover.

I have bought several pumps from them for work.Most recent was one of these:
vacuum pumps, compressors, blowers and centralized vacuum systems (http://www.dvp.it/)

They are compact, quiet, and great value for money.

[Muckinhell]

ill have to try that second mob cause the first ones cant do 12v continuous duty so hopefully the second bunch can...thanks again. by the way does anyone know how to do the upgrade to the later glow plugs and wire them in paralell??? and or where is best place to get them as well thanks

[isuzurover]

ill have to try that second mob cause the first ones cant do 12v continuous duty so hopefully the second bunch can...thanks again. by the way does anyone know how to do the upgrade to the later glow plugs and wire them in paralell??? and or where is best place to get them as well thanks

That is a bugger, the first company are the OZ agents for the other.

I have never bothered converting my glow plugs. IRC they are something like 1.7V each, and the ballast resistor makes up the rest (to 12V) - so you would need to buy 12V glow plugs to start with.

[Muckinhell]

WOW what a surprise this moring was......it was pouring rain and had been for some time this morning before i woke up...I thought awsome this is the perfect time to see how much my ute leaks into the cab...so i go out and hop in during the pouring rain and low and behold its as dry as the simpson desert in there. I had been expecting some leaks of some discription as my old ex army troopy with hard cover used to leak annoyingly right on me right foot. this may change of course when when i finally get it registered and were to drive it in same conditions...but very happy with it so far.

[Muckinhell]

Even got it started this arv with out aerostart by holding me foot to the floor and winding...very excited.
blows some white smoke though wich is annoying.....
have put in a engine flush this arv and am changing oil and filter tomorrow so see how that helps.

[chazza]

White smoke from a diesel can indicate unburnt fuel, which could be a timing problem. Have you checked that the pump is installed correctly?

Cheers Charlie

[Blknight.aus]

NO USING AREOSTART OR STARTYABASTARD on diesels.

its a good way to break things.

the glow plug wiring should go

from the battery to a decent relay
from the relay to the current limiting resistor
from the current limiting resistor to the number 4 glow plug.
from number 4 glow plug to number 3 then 3-2, 2-1 and finally from 1 to earth.

the glow plugs have a sandwich of bits on the the top of them

a knurled nut
a wafer type spring washer
a ring type electrical connector (power coming in for number 4 this is the wire from the current limiting resistor)
a ceramic insualtor
a ring type electrical connector (power going out for number 4 this is the bridging lead to injector number 3)
a wafer spring washer.

my earth for injector number 1 is a second nut up on the front stud for injector number one.

its normal for these diesels to blow whitish smoke on initial start and while they are cold as they are an indirect injected engine. Once you have them started and they have oil pressure up give them about 1200 RPM to warm them up if its really cold put a blanket over the radiator to limit airflow.

there are other factors that contribute to the smoke factor. before assessing potential other problems I like to take them for a drive to warm up shut them down for about 20 minutes (to let the oil drain back from the rings and the valves) and then start them again without glow plugs. it should fire nearly instantly and blow only the tiniest amount of smoke from the unburnt fuel from the cranking process. once its got a stable idle it should be a nice clean exhaust.

[Muckinhell]

Chazza the pumps seems fine but i really have no idea where it should be timming wise.

Blknight, the glow plugs were wired up this way but the one nearest the bulk head was missing a part of it so it wasnt making the circuit but the rest was wired how you have discribed.
I am wanting to convert to the later glow plugs and wire it in paralell for more reliability so any help there on how that wiring should go and the appropriate glow plugs to replace the heater plugs would be greatly appreciated....

otherwise the engine flush has done wonders lots a crap came out, and after running it with the new oil the dipstick comes out clean and fresh, with no hint of darkening.

will have to get somoen to look at it professionally later on when i get that far if i do....that is i now have a work ute for the time being and the managers reckon ill prob be keeping it as my own work vehicle wich may negate the need for this old landy, but until thenm ill keep working on it and getting it towards road worthy.

thanks for your help guys.

[JDNSW]

C.......
I am wanting to convert to the later glow plugs and wire it in paralell for more reliability so any help there on how that wiring should go and the appropriate glow plugs to replace the heater plugs would be greatly appreciated....
......

Living where you do, unless you like skiing, I would not bother updating the glow plugs for reliability - it should start easily without glowplugs as long as the temperature is above freezing, if the engine is in reasonable condition. When I had one of these engines I have started it at ten below without glow plugs. And the originals are quite reliable anyway, it is just that if one fails, you have none.

John

[Muckinhell]

JDNSW how long would it take to crank it over and start it on a normal summers day if you hadnt started it in a while???

mine takes a bit of cranking with foot to the floor before she fires up.

[isuzurover]

JDNSW how long would it take to crank it over and start it on a normal summers day if you hadnt started it in a while???

mine takes a bit of cranking with foot to the floor before she fires up.

Foot to the floor while cranking is the correct way to start 2.25Ds (and other IDI diesels).

On a hot summers day mine will start with just a few seconds of cranking (no glow plugs).

In winter - 30-60 seconds of glowing is needed. I (like others) have found that cranking for a few seconds to put some fuel in the chambers, then glowing, speeds the process up slightly.

[Muckinhell]

ok well mine takes prob 30- 60 secs of cranking in summer to get going so i guess she needs a tune and is the reason for alot of bluish white smoke that it blows as well. but once its going it sounds a runs great. apart from the smoke when there are some revs under it,

[Sleepy]

Great thread Muckinhell et al. I am learning heaps about my 2.25D also. :)

[Muckinhell]

hows your truck for starting and how does it get vacuum for the brakes sleepy?

[Sleepy]

hows your truck for starting and how does it get vacuum for the brakes sleepy?

She starts fine - 10 sec of glow plug first thing in the morning, a couple of cranks and away I rattle. Blows a bit of white smoke until warm. Motor was rebuilt only 2 years ago so runs and starts great.

As for the vacuum I understand there is a butterfly arrangement on the inlet (Ben or John can you please explain again for me too:D;))
Here's a pic of mine...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/1273.jpg

I recall Ben saying you can get more power by removing it and going for an independent vacuum source, which I will get to eventually.:angel:

[isuzurover]

ok well mine takes prob 30- 60 secs of cranking in summer to get going so i guess she needs a tune and is the reason for alot of bluish white smoke that it blows as well. but once its going it sounds a runs great. apart from the smoke when there are some revs under it,

Blue smoke is oil - sounds like your valve stem seals or rings need doing. Which likely means you are down on compression - hence the slow starting.



She starts fine - 10 sec of glow plug first thing in the morning, a couple of cranks and away I rattle. Blows a bit of white smoke until warm. Motor was rebuilt only 2 years ago so runs and starts great.

As for the vacuum I understand there is a butterfly arrangement on the inlet (Ben or John can you please explain again for me too:D;))
Here's a pic of mine...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/1273.jpg

I recall Ben saying you can get more power by removing it and going for an independent vacuum source, which I will get to eventually.:angel:

The 2nd pic - directly down from the fuel filter, shows the butterfly - and the vacuum line off the top of the intake. The butterfly is a huge restriction in the intake, which diesels shouldn't have.

[Muckinhell]

if its rings whats the cost expected to renew those or would a whole rebuild be more benificial....

mine doesnt have that butterfly anymore so im looking as you will have read previously in here into an alternate source of vacuum preferably a alternator with vacuum pump but not a new one as there upwards of $400 and 12v vacuum systems are that price too approx. So im also looking into other diesel vehicles vacuum systems to see if i can adapr one of them somehow.

by the way nice s3 wagon i read the thread about that truck...very nice.

[korg20000bc]

if its rings whats the cost expected to renew those or would a whole rebuild be more benificial....

mine doesnt have that butterfly anymore so im looking as you will have read previously in here into an alternate source of vacuum preferably a alternator with vacuum pump but not a new one as there upwards of $400 and 12v vacuum systems are that price too approx. So im also looking into other diesel vehicles vacuum systems to see if i can adapr one of them somehow.

by the way nice s3 wagon i read the thread about that truck...very nice.

I may be getting a surplus 2nd hand Land Rover vacuum butterfly this weekend. Is that what you're looking for to pass rego?

[isuzurover]

if its rings whats the cost expected to renew those or would a whole rebuild be more benificial....

mine doesnt have that butterfly anymore so im looking as you will have read previously in here into an alternate source of vacuum preferably a alternator with vacuum pump but not a new one as there upwards of $400 and 12v vacuum systems are that price too approx. So im also looking into other diesel vehicles vacuum systems to see if i can adapr one of them somehow.

by the way nice s3 wagon i read the thread about that truck...very nice.

It may just be valve stems and the starting unrelated.

Do a compression test, then another with a (small) squirt of oil in the bores to see where the problem lies.

If it is the rings, they are cheap, but it will depend on bore wear whether you can just do a hone and fit new rings or whether you need to do more. If it is rings, it may just be glazed bores - try driving it like you stole it...

If you have no butterfly, do you have a brake booster??? I have neither on my IIA. No problems... (EDIT - just went back and looked at the pics...)

The cheapest option (if you are happy to fabricate a bracket or two) will be to track down an alternator with integral vacuum pump which you can graft on.

[Landy Smurf]

someone has probably already said it but i find with my s3 diesel ute the best thing is to give it plenty of glow

[Muckinhell]

korg id like to stear clear of the butterfly if i can.......it still has a little left to do yest for rego stage and i cant really take it for a drive either living in town. and yes as you would have seen isuzu it has the brake booster so i will need vacuum from somewhere....think i will just go the alternator route and see how i go retro fitting one up. also i have no working glow system at the moment so cant go the glow. thanks guys.
keep the suggestions comming though.

[isuzurover]

also i have no working glow system at the moment so cant go the glow.

What is wrong with it? Looks intact from the pics.

When I installed my 2.25D, I just hooked up a series 1/2 starter button to work the glow plugs. Though when that died (took a long time), I used a push button switch from Jaycar wired through a 40A relay.

[Muckinhell]

thoese pics are from when i first got it home....i spent one whole sat working on it etc trying to get the thing started, and eventually took the heater plugs out and found the first one near the fire wall had cracked and was missing some of it so there was no circuit and the 3rd one had just cracked as well so iv since had all the wirring off it since then till i either get a update kit to glow plugs or buy new heater plugs.
It does however have a push button switch for the glow plugs on it so thats all ready to go when i get the rest done.

[Muckinhell]

i have since played with the timing to see if the smoke clears a little without any success on that part but i did start alot easier and quicker yest when i went to get it outa the shed after renewing pass side front bushes etc. it started rather quick without aerostart help so ther maybe some help somewhere with the smoke etc and getting rid of it.

[Muckinhell]

update on my beast....

tried changing the cooling system hoses i bought recently but alas they sent me the wrong ones, as the bottome hose i was sent looks nothin like the one i pulled off and the top hose is similar but longer, it may fit if i cut it down but i really shouldnt have to do anything when u buy hoses speciallically for that vehicle, the only thing that matches is the bypass hose (wich was labaled as county) and that looks like a mission just to get on....any tips for that would be appreciated by the way.

also as pictured i have put on the disco rims and geolander tyres i recently purchased from skiboy from this forum, there a tad smaller than the 7.50 r16s but they it least will get a roadworthy anyway.

[bcr2734]

carnt say i like the wheels mate sorry

[Muckinhell]

and for the latest on ole musty as the mrs calls it,
rewirred the headlights on sat and put relays on both lo and hi beam wich works a treat along with a new indicator stalk to get things switching properly. i also found out it was orginally a petrol thats been converted to the diesel, well so the compliance plate says petrol anyway, and me old rims and tyres are for sale for best offer as well.

[Newbs-IIA]

The bypass hose is pretty easy to remove & replace. You can either remove the waterpump or the thermostat housing (alot easier than waterpump) and pull it off like that. While you are there check to see if you thermostat is working properly, and replace the gaskets.

Where are you getting you LR parts from? MR Automotive in Brisbane will send them up to you at a good price and they really know their stuff. Never had a wrong part from them for my IIA.

[isuzutoo-eh]

Looks like yours has an earlier radiator, the series 3 radiator has a more rounded top tank as seen in Sleepy's photos on page 4. The position or angle of the bottom pipe changed between 2a and 3. The top hose should be the same though.
My bypass hose is cut from a suitable Holden hose, $3 :p

[Muckinhell]

yeah i bought through fwd in brissy and i think it wasnt there fault just that someone has done a diesel conversion on this and id say the radiator was part of the conversion, along with the non original hose.

the bypass hose i just took of the top bypass bit on the thermostate housing and fitted it that way so all good now. specially the lights are woring a rippa as well.

[Muckinhell]

it seems as though i may be keeping the work ute now so this old girl will be up for sale shortly, as i have a few pressing budget issues soon and may need the dosh at my most reluctantcy to sell it as it would be great to have as a round town bush/extra work behicle.

[jakeslouw]

Before you sell it, run a 500ml bottle of 2-stroke oil (chainsaw/bushwakka/common or garden premix stuff) through a tank of diesel.
If you want, rather use about 100ml in a 20 liters.

The 2-stroke oil has anti-soot compounds that will clean any rubbish off the rings and valves.

If you're filling up with high sulfur diesel, you'll find the engine will be all coked up.

It's worth a try, and won't hurt.

[Muckinhell]

Before you sell it, run a 500ml bottle of 2-stroke oil (chainsaw/bushwakka/common or garden premix stuff) through a tank of diesel.
If you want, rather use about 100ml in a 20 liters.

The 2-stroke oil has anti-soot compounds that will clean any rubbish off the rings and valves.

If you're filling up with high sulfur diesel, you'll find the engine will be all coked up.

It's worth a try, and won't hurt.

ok thanks but at the rate its going now itd take a year to run a tank out seeing as its only moved from 1 side of the yard to the other when i mow, or into the shed to work on, thats kinda why i am looking to sell only cause i got the work ute now.