Disappointment

[El Duderino]

A mate drove his folks D3 over for a bbq earlier tonight, had a few too many n asked me to drive him into town to go out clubbing tonight and pick him up afterwards (hence the late hour). I was quite honoured, didn't go out clubbing as it's not my thing, drove it around a bit like his parents had invited me to on many occasions, and was looking forward to the comparison from my D1 day's which I'm revisiting in the next few weeks.

To be blunt, the D3 was a massive disappointment to me tbh, and I expected a lot more given the price tag. To me it seems an overpriced machine and over electrified unit which is ordinary on-road, would have little faith in off road, and defies the original intentions of the Discovery in the marques lineup. Not meaning to **** anybody off in here, but it smacked of a poor mans Rangie, rather than adhering to what the Disco was originally designed for. It felt too 'car like', not something I'd be willing to take into more serious situations, and when I learned the price-tag nearly had a heart attack. A 5dr Disco used to be $40 in the mid 90's n seems to be a more capable n trustworthy weapon imo.

Like I said, I'm not meaning to **** anybody off, buy can owners explain the rationale behind the purchase please? It just came across as a lot of money for not much in return to me (no i didn't take this one off road for obvious reasons). Hehehe! I'd love to be proven wrong, so please do!!! ;)

[Disco44]

All I can say is "crikey hell Mate"
They must have had me fooled.
O I own a disco 1 300TDI

Cheers,
Disco44

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I'd be interested in knowing what the original was designed for.

other than the continued use of chassis components:p


as for "too car like"
I'd say the designers then succeeded admirably.

[Shonky]

I have never driven D3, but I have seen one off road in the hands of a driver in tune with his vehicle, and was most impressed! ;)

[rmp]

Interesting post. Each to their own. I would suggest spending a bit more time in a D3; maybe you'll change your mind, maybe not. I do know that first impressions of a vehicle are not usually last.

You also said it was ordinary on road, and car like? Is that not a contradictory statement or does "car like" mean not very robust as opposed to driving characteristics?

[AnD3rew]

I guess everybody will have their own opinions.

I have had a D1 and a D2 and my D3 is in every aspect the better vehicle.

On road it is very carlike (which is in my opinion what you would be aiming for) My immediately preveious car was a BMW which in my view was the best car in terms of feel and handling I have ever owned, and the D3 is surprisingly not too far off that mark on the road.

I have driven many Toyota's, owned a Mitsubishi Pajero and on road the D3 pi**es all over them (IMHO).

Off road which I did for the first time properly last weekend after 4 months of ownership it is truly awesome I can safely say it will go places a stock standard D1 will never go without a winch.

I truly don't believe there is another vehicle you can buy stock which can do both things so well.

Yes it is expensive, and yes it is highly reliant on a lot of electronics and although many have taken their D3's to very remote places, this is the one thing that might convince me to get a Tojo if I was planing a lot of very remote travel that there might be less electronic trickery to leave you stranded. Although having said that every generation of Tojo is now getting more and more of this stuff too.

Sorry you didn't like it, I guess you won't be buying one but I think we can live with that.

[waynep]

We had a D1 TDi and looking to get into the modern world so test drove both a V6 petrol and TDV6 D3 ( SE models ).

If you drove a petrol V6 then I sort of agree, it is a bit pedestrian, but the TDV6 - wow what a fantastic vehicle. Definitely worth every cent and more.

Unfortunately we did not go D3 or even Landrover in the end because we plan to do a lot of remote touring and there's no dealer support outside major metro areas. Made me cry having to go Jap but I had no choice.

[lewy]

A 5dr Disco used to be $40 in the mid 90's n seems to be a more capable n trustworthy weapon imo.
does anyone know the difference in price between a mid 90's disco and rangie.compared to todays models,not that it matters to me.:D

[p38arover]

A 5dr Disco used to be $40 in the mid 90's n seems to be a more capable n trustworthy weapon imo.
does anyone know the difference in price between a mid 90's disco and rangie.compared to todays models,not that it matters to me.:D

One needs to compare not just the number of dollars but the buying power of those dollars - or even compare the average wage.

Using such comparisons, I suggest the price difference may not be that much.

Some of us want a 4WD that is car-like - which is why I don't own a Defender (I have owned a 110 County, a '95 Disco, an '83 RR, and an '86 RR).

[DiscoSaffa]

In my time I have had 4 Land Rovers, a ’73 RRC, a (cringe) 1.8 Freelander :wasntme: , a Disco II and now a Petrol V6 D3. I didn’t pay size cash for mine, it was an ex Land Rover Directors vehicle, only 8 months old at a SERIOUS saving over the new price (a new small car). I have a rule of never buying a new Land Rover….. we can explore this later……

Anyway I digress. For the money, the D3 is worth every penny and then some. Being who I am, I want to drive a Land Rover but being a dad, I need to move a family around (otherwise lads and ladies admit it, we would all drive Defender 90’s). Anyway, there is NO other car on the market that moves a family as comfortably as the D3 and then come the weekend, sheds it’s sheepskin and becomes a seriously capable (as stock) vehicle off the black top.

I recall driving a an Audi Q7 while I owned my D2 and think exactly the same thing as El Duderino, most certainly not worth the money over my D2……. But then it is a different animal to the Discos and I wouldn’t be caught dead in one…….:no2:

As others have pointed out, we are all entitled to our own opinion and that, for what it is worth, is mine……..

[Tote]

My D1 cost $41000 new 1999 ( base diesel ), D2 cost $56000 in 2002 (TD5 Manual with ACE ) D3 cost $82000 in 2008 ( SE TDV6 with Locking Diff and Uprated Stereo )
I can see how you might feel on first drive that a D3 is less nimble than a d1 or d2 , they are a bigger vehicle, however they have changed market positions as well as a D1 was a competitor with a Pajero / Prado and a D3 will compete with a 200 Series.
On my first drive I thought that it felt like a P38 to drive compared to a Disco 1 as I had a loaner p38 when I had my D1.
As for off road it is by far the most capable and comfortable vehicle I have had. I reckon you need to drive one for a couple of days and see what you think then. I'll leave the flaming to others :twisted:

Regards,
Tote

[Disco44]

I guess everybody will have their own opinions.

I have had a D1 and a D2 and my D3 is in every aspect the better vehicle.

On road it is very carlike (which is in my opinion what you would be aiming for) My immediately preveious car was a BMW which in my view was the best car in terms of feel and handling I have ever owned, and the D3 is surprisingly not too far off that mark on the road.

I have driven many Toyota's, owned a Mitsubishi Pajero and on road the D3 pi**es all over them (IMHO).

Off road which I did for the first time properly last weekend after 4 months of ownership it is truly awesome I can safely say it will go places a stock standard D1 will never go without a winch.

I truly don't believe there is another vehicle you can buy stock which can do both things so well.

Yes it is expensive, and yes it is highly reliant on a lot of electronics and although many have taken their D3's to very remote places, this is the one thing that might convince me to get a Tojo if I was planing a lot of very remote travel that there might be less electronic trickery to leave you stranded. Although having said that every generation of Tojo is now getting more and more of this stuff too.

Sorry you didn't like it, I guess you won't be buying one but I think we can live with that.
In a recent post on this forum on latest Tojo's in Europe the reviewer said that realistically Tojo is only playing " catch up" and has a long way to go.

[DiscoSaffa]

In a recent post on this forum on latest Tojo's in Europe the reviewer said that realistically Tojo is only playing " catch up" and has a long way to go.

And Land Rover just moved the goal posts with the D4....... :burnrubber:

[gghaggis]

I was told by a Nissan mechanic that although Toyota have a far more extensive rural dealer network, they can't fix any of the new models anyway, as they don't have parts or the diagnostic system updates to do it. Your nice new Toyo will just sit there for 6 weeks whilst they try and get the bits shipped (usually from Japan).

And why would a Nissan guy lie about a Toymota? :angel:

Cheers,

Gordon

[DiscoWeb]

El Duderino,

Interesting post. Having owned my TDV6 SE Disco for the best part of 10 months and done about 25,000 km in a combination of daily shuttle, family touring and some off roading I think your assessment based on a 5.30 am post after one midnight city run is just slightly premature, happy to be corrected once you wake up.

I think the car like nature of a fully fledged 4wd is actually a major achievement. The off road ability, greatly assisted by electronic gadgets notwithstanding is nothing short of incredible and the comfort and ease with which the D3 spans these two polar opposites is why it has won just about every major motoring award in existence.

No one car can do everything but the D3 based on my experience seems to cover more ground than most.

Having never owned an LR prior to this I had no particular brand alliance and did plenty research before buying. compared to other European SUV's you get a similar build quality and on road performance yet it is more than just a station wagon on steroids. compared to a LC 200 which is around the same price the D3 is more refined and a better drive in every way (imho).

You can get cheaper but again imho value for money is high in the D3.

As for a being a poor man's Rangie. I looked at the RRS but as I wanted 7 seats and enough luggage space to easily cart a young family this did not suit. A full blown Range Rover is nearly double what I paid, so not really a proxy for a D3.

So there is the rationale for my purchase of the D3 and whilst I accept you may be able to make a fully informed decision from one quick drive I fear your judgement maybe lacking in substance and cognitive thought.

George

[El Duderino]

Thanks for you honest opinions n no flamage guys, much appreciated. Having such an opportunity to drive one for a few hours, I just wanted to share my thoughts n see how they stacked up against other peoples. :)

They're certainly luxurious! I can see what target demographic they've aimed it at n think they've done an amazing job. It felt very much like an X5 but you knew it could do a lot more. What surprised me however was the Disco has evolved as from it's initial design brief, and this was a major let-down to me. The Disco was supposed to bridge the gap between the 'hard as nails' Defender n the cushy Rangie, but has now become more like a baby Rangie. Like was mentioned, it's now competing against the 200 series n the like, so this is understandable, but this leaves a big void in their range which they used to dominate.

I'm driving it out on their farm next weekend when we're going shooting, so will have some broad space with some rough stuff to try it out on. I'm eager to see how it goes. :)

[jonesfam]

I have only owned my D3 a couple of months but I bought it because:
It is big enough to carry wife, 4 kids & self in comfort.
You can still fit some kit in.
Compared to the 200 GLX L/C it was miles ahead in standard equipment & design.
The wife liked it.
When your driving for a long stretch (13 hours) you can walk & stand up straight afterwards.
It IS car like, even on rough dirt.
I like the "Block of Flats on wheels" look
From over 12 months research there are very few problems with the electronics or the rest of the car.
It goes well & tows well.
And it ain't Japanese.
All cars are a compromise but the D3 compromise's least.
I have owned 7 4WD's, this is by far the best.
Jonesfam
TDV6 SE

[p38arover]

Would I have a D3 or D4? Bloody oath I would - if I could afford one.

[rmp]

I was told by a Nissan mechanic that although Toyota have a far more extensive rural dealer network, they can't fix any of the new models anyway, as they don't have parts or the diagnostic system updates to do it. Your nice new Toyo will just sit there for 6 weeks whilst they try and get the bits shipped (usually from Japan).


Glad to see someone else making this point.

Re the D3 and Range Rover -- the Rangie is a long way upmarket of where the D3 and D4 presently is. You only need to sit inside one to understand that let alone drive it. Modern Rangies exude upper-class luxury.

[justinc]

I repair and service all models of Discos, 1, 2's and 3's and I'd prefer long distance touring in a TDV6 SE D3 above all of them. Off road a well kitted D1 Tdi auto would be my pick, and If I wanted a great tourer AND off road vehicle, a 2003 onward Td5 chipped auto D2a would be the best allrounder. (Yes D3's are pretty awesome offroad, but I feel a little too big and 'scratchable' than a D2)
Love driving the D3 though, haven't tried a petrol one yet, but very impressed with the TdV6.

My 30c,

JC

[trobbo]

I'm on my third land rover atm.
The first was an 82 4 door range rover with a 3.5 taken out to 4ltrs, rear locker and 7.50 16 inch tyres.
The second was a manual 87 range rover with 4.6, front and rear lockers and 34 inch simex's
The current ride is a 94 es disco with 4.6, front and rear lockers, simex's and HID lights.
Come September next year I plan on stepping into a D4. The disco will be stripped out and sold as parts.
Whilst I dont expect the D4 to be as capable as my D1 (given the mods it has) it will certainly still be a capable off road machine.

[MobyDisco]

...it smacked of a poor mans Rangie

At upwards of $70K, I'm not sure it's a poor man's anything...

[Cap]

I agree when it comes to LR marketing it... times have changed, most buyers want luxury AND capability and sounds like the D3/4 meet that criteria.

Also, LR do have that 'luxury' branding, unlike the 'farmers toyota'.

I want to know if a D3/4 has a built in cappuccino maker. :D

[gps-au]

I want to know if a D3/4 has a built in cappuccino maker. :D

Suggest it to Mitchell Bros (& CaverD3), I'm sure it can be done :angel:

[chuck]

I recently bought a demonstrator run out D3 TDV6 SE.
I too was initially not that impressed - I guess I missed my well sorted TD5.

I use my car every day for work not just to get to work & I replaced the TD5 because at 270,000kms it was starting to worry me.
In addition I get a pretty reasonable car allowance which if I do not spend I pay tax on.
I quite often drive tracks for work & the other day had to engage low range - that was a good day at work.

I saved heaps by buying a demo (a new small car) .

I have put on a set of mud terrains & that gives me back some of the feeling I missed with the TD5.

By the way after 3 months I love the car and am very impressed by it.
It's 4x4 ability is lot better than my nerve however having said that it has been on some medium trips.

Just my thoughts

Regards

Chuck

[CaverD3]

Suggest it to Mitchell Bros (& CaverD3), I'm sure it can be done :angel:

Land Rover would not like it it would affect the brakes. :angel:

The price of the D3 is is very competative. The LC 200 was more expensive than the D3. IMHO the D4 has gone over the line making it less suitable for Oz conditions though. (Min 19 inch wheels and second battery box full) A pity as they has overcome the advantage the LC200 had with it's bigger engine.
But there is still the 2.7L D4.
Ther are plenty of folk who use the D3 in very hairy situations.:D

[stevo68]

A mate drove his folks D3 over for a bbq earlier tonight, had a few too many n asked me to drive him into town to go out clubbing tonight and pick him up afterwards (hence the late hour). I was quite honoured, didn't go out clubbing as it's not my thing, drove it around a bit like his parents had invited me to on many occasions, and was looking forward to the comparison from my D1 day's which I'm revisiting in the next few weeks.

To be blunt, the D3 was a massive disappointment to me tbh, and I expected a lot more given the price tag. To me it seems an overpriced machine and over electrified unit which is ordinary on-road, would have little faith in off road, and defies the original intentions of the Discovery in the marques lineup. Not meaning to **** anybody off in here, but it smacked of a poor mans Rangie, rather than adhering to what the Disco was originally designed for. It felt too 'car like', not something I'd be willing to take into more serious situations, and when I learned the price-tag nearly had a heart attack. A 5dr Disco used to be $40 in the mid 90's n seems to be a more capable n trustworthy weapon imo.

Like I said, I'm not meaning to **** anybody off, buy can owners explain the rationale behind the purchase please? It just came across as a lot of money for not much in return to me (no i didn't take this one off road for obvious reasons). Hehehe! I'd love to be proven wrong, so please do!!! ;) Hmmm...interesting. To be blunt, what I find disappointing is that people have responded to this dribble.......damn nammit...including myself ;). To be blunt again, my view is that it comes from someone who has about as much chance of buying a D3 new as I have of winning a marathon :angel:..........smacks of a poor mans rangie...how ****ing offensive is that.

Now I have driven and owned a wide variety of cars, Mercs/Bentleys/ Porsche's/ top of the range local produce and my previous D3 HSE. On road some of the best handling capabilities for a vehicle that size. Off road...brilliant. To think otherwise shows how little the person would know. I do know as I sold my D3 and went to a D2.........chalk and cheese...absolutely and definatively. Don't get me wrong...I love Smokey...has done well....but is it a D3...no way.

Is the D3 meant to be a rangy and meant to be the inbetweeny car...WTF. Its a bloody Discovery and sits upon its own shelf. Its not meant to be "plusher" than a fender nor is it meant to be a alternative for a RRS or RR. It has its own select market that it was designed for and it ticks the boxes perfectly.

Of course any new LR is going to be expensive............they are a PRESTIGE vehicle...............a D1 in its hey day was a bit of coin....not so 15 + yrs down the track. As for not taking into serious situations..........guess you wouldn't if don't have one....those that do....love its car like handling during the week and its balls to the wall capabilities off road on the weekend..............

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/972.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/09/726.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/12/636.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/11/1082.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/11/274.jpg

So sorry to be blunt...but reckon that is one the biggest loads of rubbish I have read..........................in my opinion,

Regards

Stevo

P.S. I should note my response isn't to explain to anyone why I bought my D3...more to take to task the original post.

[Camo]

Drove a 200 series for an hour the other day.1 heap of crap. 90k worth:eek: I know what I would spend my 90k on if I were to buy a new 4x4..

D4 for me please :-)

Camo

[Scouse]

Not meaning to **** anybody off in here, but it smacked of a poor mans Rangie, rather than adhering to what the Disco was originally designed for. This is exactly why the Discovery was made.
Land Rover wanted a model line up between the 110/Defender & the Range Rover - the result was the Discovery.

[CaverD3]

Why don't you say waht you think Stevo? :Rolling:

D3/4 is a a smart mans RR ;)

Juch visited a farmer who has just got a new LC200, to say the least he is underwelmed by it. Says it handles worse than his LC100 did on dirt roads. :angel: hits a bump and it's bum shakes.

Value for money D3/4 is way ahead.

[rmp]

Stevo, I don't have any issue with the original post. It's just an opinion, one in the minority, and while I don't agree I don't think the post is a troll so it doesn't deserve that response. So I think you're being a bit harsh on the original poster. I was pretty pleased with the forum's responses to the post, which on some forums would have been flamed out of existence but everyone had been measured and polite. El Dude looks pretty open minded to me.

I'm not in the least offended by calling a Discovery a poor man's Rangie, but if others are I won't disagree. That's more or less what it is for many.

[drivesafe]

Juch visited a farmer who has just got a new LC200, to say the least he is underwelmed by it. Says it handles worse than his LC100 did on dirt roads. :angel: hits a bump and it's bum shakes.

Hi CaverD3, as you know I sell the dual battery kits for the D3s and I often ask new customers what they owned prier to buying their new D3 and I would estimate that nearly half have come from other makes and most are former yota owners.

In nearly every case where the ex yota owner had looked the new LC200 and then changed makes, the comments were very similar, the LC200 just does not cut it.

The LC200 must be costing yota a fortune, and I’m very upset to hear that.

[CaverD3]

With engine failures transmission failures and cracked chassis I would think it is is. :D
Many folks just by the new one of what they had before. :(
Took us six months to decide on the D3 after the D2 curled up it's tooties.

[Desert Traveller]

You would be surprised where a D3 with air suspension, MTR's and the e'diff will go. Having put mine on the ARB testtrack against a L200, the L200 needed twin ARB lockers to match the D3. And then the L200 has a major rearend overhang problem. Once you really get to know your D3/4 it is a serious offroad longwheel base vehicle. To get much better you need a dedicated offroad toy.

[Tote]

I'd agree with the comment above, on a recent trip to Newnes my vehicle was very close in capability to a mate's 100 series with a 2" lift, 33's and dual diff locks. I've got a rear diff lock on my D3 and 18" GG tyres

Regards,
Tote

[Disco44]

Glad to see someone else making this point.

Re the D3 and Range Rover -- the Rangie is a long way upmarket of where the D3 and D4 presently is. You only need to sit inside one to understand that let alone drive it. Modern Rangies exude upper-class luxury.

Yes I agree and you don't have to spend thousands to really use one off road unlike the Tojo.Stock standard all Landrovers eat anything Tojo has for breakfast and then spit out what remains.

[AnD3rew]

On the question of is the Disco a poor man's Rangie
I don't ever sit in my Disco and think that I'd rather have a Rangie. could probably have stretched myself to a RRS if I had wanted but didn't for a couple of reasons first is that I want the extra space and extra seats I like to go travelling and camping and the extra seats are great for a car full of kids or visiting relatives, you can't get that in the RR. But also importantly I do like to take my vehicle off road, and whilst the RR is exceptional off road, I am worried enough about hurting my Disco, I would never go into the ruff stuff if I had that much money invested in the RR, in which case I would rather have a BMW 335i or M3.

[gps-au]

On the question of is the Disco a poor man's Rangie.

Very much agree !!

The only other vehicle I think of is maybe my old Jimny, that I should have kept it for running around the Eastern Suburbs of Sydney..... but then its difficult enough to find a house with off street parking for one vehicle :mad:

[Scouse]

On the question of is the Disco a poor man's Rangie
That's how it came about but things are different these days.

In fact, you'll soon see Land Rovers 'split' into 2 different markets. One will be the 'off road' side & the other will be the 'on road'.
It's starting to happen now on one of the 2010MY line up so watch this space :).

[El Duderino]

Stevo, I don't have any issue with the original post. It's just an opinion, one in the minority, and while I don't agree I don't think the post is a troll so it doesn't deserve that response. So I think you're being a bit harsh on the original poster. I was pretty pleased with the forum's responses to the post, which on some forums would have been flamed out of existence but everyone had been measured and polite. El Dude looks pretty open minded to me.

I'm not in the least offended by calling a Discovery a poor man's Rangie, but if others are I won't disagree. That's more or less what it is for many.

Thanks RMP. Like you mentioned, the responses have been excellent, well thought out and considerate. I certainly didn't make my original post to antagonise or stir ill-feeling, was merely a personal observation from the opportunity to drive one for a few hours, and seek others opinions on the D3. I think the responses provided give a good indication of the people in here and have been impressed by the maturity.

Like RMP has said, I'm pretty open minded and willing to listen to what others have to say. I've driven the D3 a few times since and it is beginning to warm to me, so I'm looking forward to this weekends mission where I can test it out more. :)

[rmp]

Stock standard all Landrovers eat anything Tojo has for breakfast and then spit out what remains.

I would disagree...

[Narangga]

At upwards of $70K, I'm not sure it's a poor man's anything...

Suffering safe deposit boxes Batman - he may well be right :eek:

[Narangga]

I was told by a Nissan mechanic that although Toyota have a far more extensive rural dealer network, they can't fix any of the new models anyway, as they don't have parts or the diagnostic system updates to do it. Your nice new Toyo will just sit there for 6 weeks whilst they try and get the bits shipped (usually from Japan).

And why would a Nissan guy lie about a Toymota? :angel:

Cheers,

Gordon

Local Nissan dealer spent over $10K a couple of years ago for the huge wheely trolley that is their diagnostic system. The thing is three times the size of a mechanics tool trolley.

[Graeme]

That's how it came about but things are different these days.

In fact, you'll soon see Land Rovers 'split' into 2 different markets. One will be the 'off road' side & the other will be the 'on road'.
It's starting to happen now on one of the 2010MY line up so watch this space :).
So is the 2.7 D4 the off-road version and the 3.0 D4 the on-road one?

[scarry]

I repair and service all models of Discos, 1, 2's and 3's and I'd prefer long distance touring in a TDV6 SE D3 above all of them. Off road a well kitted D1 Tdi auto would be my pick, and If I wanted a great tourer AND off road vehicle, a 2003 onward Td5 chipped auto D2a would be the best allrounder. (Yes D3's are pretty awesome offroad, but I feel a little too big and 'scratchable' than a D2)
Love driving the D3 though, haven't tried a petrol one yet, but very impressed with the TdV6.

My 30c,

JC

X2

This is one of the main reasons i have kept my D2.

And i had the use of a D3 for a week,TDv6.

Don't get me wrong,the D3 is an awesome vehicle & way ahead of the D2 in so many ways.

My 20c worth:angel:

[Disco44]

I would disagree...
Thats the good thing about living in Oz .We can disagree.
Friend of mine had a Hilux.Bought a new caravanTook it to the Territory and Nth WA a couple months back.Came home traded the Hilux in on a 100 Series.Took it for a trip up to NQ .Came home has to date spent $9000 dollars on Turbo ( he is a Totota buff but said it wouldn't pull the hat off your head) and suspension.Some thing happened to the 100's computer cost the dealer $2500 under warranty to fix . Both I and another mate have Landies and they have sufficient grunt to pull both our vans plus the durability to take us and our campervans ( we also have off road vans)to the cape twice.Both landies are stock standard except for snorkels.His is a TD 5 Mine a 300TDI.
Cheers,
John ( disco 44 )

[rmp]

Which is fine, and I can find lots of Toyota owners who have reverse stories. But I thought you were implying that Land Rovers are better offroad than Toyotas, and that is not necessarily the case.

[Disco44]

Which is fine, and I can find lots of Toyota owners who have reverse stories. But I thought you were implying that Land Rovers are better offroad than Toyotas, and that is not necessarily the case.
That my friend is a big statement.Check out approach , departure angles,and wheel travel between the 2 makes ( stock standard).That is what gives any make its off road ability.Toyota can be made that way by modification Landrover has that from scratch.Check out my attachment .No wheel travel caused that.Over 2 hours later we freed him.That was at Cape York at Gunshot.
Cheers,
John ( disco 44 )

[rmp]

Ever ramped a LC100 or LC200 against a Defender or Discovery? The wheel travel is comparable, and in fact the 200 with KDSS outramps a D2, and the LC100 live axle. Check the clearance and angles for the 76 vs Defender. The 200 vs D3 is a bit different as the latter is height-adjustable.

In my experience, Land Rovers do not romp all over Toyotas when it comes to offroad capability. I'd go further with a twin-locked (factory option) 76 than a Defender for example.

[El Duderino]

Which is fine, and I can find lots of Toyota owners who have reverse stories. But I thought you were implying that Land Rovers are better offroad than Toyotas, and that is not necessarily the case.

The same can be said for any marque, and herein is the point. Whether it's Tojo or whatever is all up to the indivudual...no vehicle is perfect and that is something we can all agree upon. As a Jeep owner who's buying a Land Rover for a 2nd vehicle, I'd still trust a well sorted Nissan GQ 4.2 diesel over nearly anything...just a shame that the good ones are out of my budget. For what it's worth, I feel that a standard TJ Wrangler will ****e over virtually anything else off which has come from the showroom floor, but that's just my opinion.Horses for courses yeah? :wasntme:

[Disco44]

Ever ramped a LC100 or LC200 against a Defender or Discovery? The wheel travel is comparable, and in fact the 200 with KDSS outramps a D2, and the LC100 live axle. Check the clearance and angles for the 76 vs Defender. The 200 vs D3 is a bit different as the latter is height-adjustable.

In my experience, Land Rovers do not romp all over Toyotas when it comes to offroad capability. I'd go further with a twin-locked (factory option) 76 than a Defender for example.
Missed again.check these out and are you are an off the shelf toyota or modified.
Also my discovery and my mates defender all went over the same obstacles and never got stuck once and got back to the bitumen unscatched.
The trip up the Telegraph Track will test any vehicle Have you had a crack? A lot pay $2000 to have their trucks taken by freighter back to Cairns rather then face the 1000 K's back down to bitumen roads. We have done it twice but in very well prepared and capable trucks.
John

[rmp]

Off the shelf for both, factory options only.

But I think we'll just agree to disagree.

[Disco44]

Off the shelf for both, factory options only.

But I think we'll just agree to disagree.

ok i agree,
maybe one day we may meet somewhere cape? Cheers and best wishes
John

[Disco44]

The same can be said for any marque, and herein is the point. Whether it's Tojo or whatever is all up to the indivudual...no vehicle is perfect and that is something we can all agree upon. As a Jeep owner who's buying a Land Rover for a 2nd vehicle, I'd still trust a well sorted Nissan GQ 4.2 diesel over nearly anything...just a shame that the good ones are out of my budget. For what it's worth, I feel that a standard TJ Wrangler will ****e over virtually anything else off which has come from the showroom floor, but that's just my opinion.Horses for courses yeah? :wasntme:
G'Day my young brother has a jeep ..not sure what model..but he and I did the NSW and Vic high country ( fire trails ) and I was impressed indeed with its capabilities.One down turn only ..could do with a lift.He tells me that Jeep in their wisdom bought his model to Australia 1in lower then normal ..but apart from that it excelled and if you have been on those trails it ain't no piece of cake ..thumbs up to the little beggar it went well
John ( Disco 44)

[CaverD3]

The nut behind the wheel can make a lot more difference to the off road capabilitity than the ones on the vehicle. ;)

[gps-au]

The nut behind the wheel can make a lot more difference to the off road capabilitity than the ones on the vehicle. ;)

that reminds me of heaps of computer story's (some not so urban myths ) :angel:

[LeighW]

To El Duderino I recently had to drive back from Townsville to Brisbane (approx 1375 km) and decided to do it overnight. The journey started at 10 am on a Friday and finished at 6:30 am on Saturday. Except for hundreds of wallabies (eating at the side of the road) and one large kangaroo (standing 10 m or so from the roadside) and 4 large deer (one of which was light-blinded in the middle of the road and was still there as I braked, veered to the side of the road and went past his/her startled face) the road was pretty clear. The vehicle (a TDV6 D3 auto) was a sheer delight to drive. I travelled at 5-10 km below the posted speed limit (as I find that is the best way to travel at night) and was passed by quite a few B doubles (haven't seen so many in any drive that I have done, ever). Quite a few cars passed me too but I was very aware of the dangers of wildlife on the road at night having driven it quite often about 20 years previously.

My point? I am glad that I did the trip in such a comfortable and surefooted vehicle. I arrived in Brisbane not feeling as bugg*red as I recall 20 years previously in sedan cars (that others would have considered more comfortable than a D3). Sure, it wasn't a 4WD journey and it was undertaken on a dark night but the D3 was certainly a very comfortable way of cleaning up those kilometres. And the overall fuel consumption was great at 8.33 l/100 (average speed including fuel stops was 93 kmh). The cons? The headlights were below par for night time driving on that road and the radio was unable to lock onto stations for too long so that kept me busy seeking more entertainment. But I take your point that it is very car-like and along with its offroad and van towing capabilities is precisely why I bought mine in Jan 2006.

[peterall]

I arrived in Brisbane not feeling as bugg*red as I recall 20 years previously in sedan cars (that others would have considered more comfortable than a D3).

That is exactly what I have found with my TDV6 SE over the past 18 months. It is by far, the most comfortable and easy to drive vehicle I have ever owned. Nine hour drives between Adelaide and Melbourne are completed with no 'jet lag'.

[Disco44]

[QUOTE=peterall;1126765]That is exactly what I have found with my TDV6 SE over the past 18 months. It is by far, the most comfortable and easy to drive vehicle I have ever owned. Nine hour drives between Adelaide and Melbourne are completed with no 'jet lag'.[/QUOTE
One day I will own one.That MPG is better that I can get out of my 300TDI
Cheers
John ( disco 44 )

[LeighW]

Disco44 - I should qualify that my 'usual' fuel consumption is normally around 10 l/100 (driving around Brisbane residential streets and to the Gold Coast/Tweed Heads) and when I get the time to get away with the 2.5 t Bushtracker it drops to around 16 l/100. But all my D3 fuel consumption is way better than the Pajero (petrol model) that I drove for many kilometres.

[jonesy63]

El Duderino - so you were disappointed that you drove a D3 and it behaved like an on-road vehicle - rather than a back-jarring, teeth-filling rattling, oversprung/underdamped purpose-built off-road car.

When you get drive it over some harsh terrain - you will get the same feeling. It makes hard tracks feel like dirt roads. :D

One data point on the ride quality - my father has had lots of operations on his back, including fusing vertebrae with screws and bone grafts, and none of them have fixed it. He can't drive very far in his AU Falcon wagon without suffering in bed for a few days afterwards. I have driven him down from Kiama to Adaminaby a few times - and he gets out of the D3 as if he had just driven to the local shops!

I have had more than my fair share of problems with the D3 - but still, I love it!

Cheers,
Rob

[rabs999]

Once time has arrived to upgrade the D2, which unfortunately is a wee way off thanks to owing more than I should...A D3, or perhaps even 2nd hand D4 will be purchased...I can not think of a more suitable replacement, especially because it will drive more like a car...The best 4 x 4 x Far...you betcha! :D

[feraldisco]

The nut behind the wheel can make a lot more difference to the off road capabilitity than the ones on the vehicle. ;)

that's perhaps the most impressive thing about a D3 -they can make even an average driver look good off-road...

As for the argument that a vehicle can be too plush, I find that argument kind of amusing...comfort...what a terrible thing. It's why I bought a D1 and now D2 rather than something like a Defender - I only want ruggedness on the outside of a vehicle...

[D-Fender]

I only want ruggedness on the outside of a vehicle...

Personally, I love a rugged interior. Anything with a metal dashboard will get my vote. Non of this bendy and snappy plastic crap for me thanks.

[BigJon]

Personally, I love a rugged interior. Anything with a metal dashboard will get my vote. Non of this bendy and snappy plastic crap for me thanks.

Which is all well and good until the crash and your face gets rammed into a steel dash...

[DiscoSaffa]

Which is all well and good until the crash and your face gets rammed into a steel dash...

Series Land Rovers are speed limited to reduce the risk of this........:D

[scrambler]

Re Series LR's being speed limited - yes, they are. Check the design of the Stage 1 if you doubt it - deliberately severely detuned the V8 to make it unable to exceed 110km/hr, which the factory believed was the fastest you could safely drive the leaf-spring chassis.

But re design brief of the D1 - don't make me laugh. Design brief was clearly "Make the Range Rover chassis a 7 seat-capable family 4wd to compete with the Mitsubishi Shogun" (to use the UK branding of the Pajero).

Compare the present versions of both Disco and Pajero - similar, but yes, the Disco costs more. And delivers a LOT more. And still shares a chassis with a Range Rover. I say, same design brief, but the world has changed a lot in 20 years.

[feraldisco]

Personally, I love a rugged interior. Anything with a metal dashboard will get my vote. Non of this bendy and snappy plastic crap for me thanks.

Can't remember anything breaking off the interior of my Discos in 10 years of use and abuse... As for the furphy about hoseout interiors, it's not that difficult to just use a decent set of floormats and seat covers...it's rare to drive through door-high water/mud and that's what decent door seals are for... Owning vehicles like XBs and HQs over the years, with similar levels of NVH and creature comforts as Defenders, I know how much more refreshed you feel after spending a day of touring in a Disco with comfy seats, aircon, cruise and pretty good NVH levels for a 4WD.

[CaverD3]

I cut some rubber sheet from Clark Rubber to fit the floor space. Covers all the carpet. Not hose out but brush out. :D

Th advantage of the D3 is being refreshed when you get there. Travelling long distances in a noisy cramped cabin can leave you tired on arrival.

[dobbo]

Why do people compare a Discovery with a LandCruiser? If the Disco is supposedly a poor mans Range Rover wouldn't it be the Land Rover equivalent to the Son of LandCruiser (Prado)

Compare flagships with flagships

Compare the 200 to a Rangie

Budget versions with budget versions

Compare the Prado or a Kluger to a D3

and utility vehicles against utility vehicles

Compare the Troopy or the unbreakable hilux to a Defender

[Disco44]

Besides being an apparent Tojo lover on what basis do you make those comparisons? All models Tojo puts out are greatly overpriced for what you get for your money.If one has the money to buy the top Rangie with all its refinements the 200 against it would be the greatest mismatch in history.Its just not in the same shed.As for the D4 against the Prado another mismatch.Troopies agin defenders thats closer but again look at the price difference and the Troopies offered in Australia are not what is offered overseas in the door versions.The Hilux is a great farm vehicle but was never meant to be a serious offroader..for one look at the gearboxes offered they were off Tojo cars ( eg The Corolla) .To end ..in this years best cars (NRMA RAC RACQ etc)The D4 went up against the Cruiser GXL D and the Pajero GLS 695 and won hands down again.This win makes it 5 in a row for the Landrover Discovery ...a record.The only other to win five was Subaru's Forester but not in consecutive years as the Disco has done.

[dobbo]

Besides being an apparent Tojo lover on what basis do you make those comparisons? All models Tojo puts out are greatly overpriced for what you get for your money.If one has the money to buy the top Rangie with all its refinements the 200 against it would be the greatest mismatch in history.Its just not in the same shed.As for the D4 against the Prado another mismatch.Troopies agin defenders thats closer but again look at the price difference and the Troopies offered in Australia are not what is offered overseas in the door versions.The Hilux is a great farm vehicle but was never meant to be a serious offroader..for one look at the gearboxes offered they were off Tojo cars ( eg The Corolla) .To end ..in this years best cars (NRMA RAC RACQ etc)The D4 went up against the Cruiser GXL D and the Pajero GLS 695 and won hands down again.This win makes it 5 in a row for the Landrover Discovery ...a record.The only other to win five was Subaru's Forester but not in consecutive years as the Disco has done.


My point exactly

[stevo68]

Besides being an apparent Tojo lover on what basis do you make those comparisons? All models Tojo puts out are greatly overpriced for what you get for your money.If one has the money to buy the top Rangie with all its refinements the 200 against it would be the greatest mismatch in history.Its just not in the same shed.As for the D4 against the Prado another mismatch.Troopies agin defenders thats closer but again look at the price difference and the Troopies offered in Australia are not what is offered overseas in the door versions.The Hilux is a great farm vehicle but was never meant to be a serious offroader..for one look at the gearboxes offered they were off Tojo cars ( eg The Corolla) .To end ..in this years best cars (NRMA RAC RACQ etc)The D4 went up against the Cruiser GXL D and the Pajero GLS 695 and won hands down again.This win makes it 5 in a row for the Landrover Discovery ...a record.The only other to win five was Subaru's Forester but not in consecutive years as the Disco has done.Now Dobbo..feel free to correct me....but I'm not sure ( Disco44) where you come up with that Dobbo is a Tojo lover:confused:. In fact I think you have missed the point by close to a country mile :p. It is irrevelant whether in your knowledge that a RR and a 200, or D4 and Prado are a mismatch......the point I think being made was the comparison of equivalent models between the two marques based on X criteria...i.e the 200 Sahara is top of the range for toyota.....RRV for LR......for a medium sized family wagon...Toyota has the Prado...LR the Discovery and so forth. The comments made...the way I read it anyway had nothing to do with a biase towards Toyota per se...but to compare like with like ( despite perceived mismatch or not)

Regards

Stevo

[jonesy63]

...
Compare flagships with flagships

Compare the 200 to a Rangie


Hey Dobbo - you forgot a little something... Tojo has redefined their flagship! The Lexus LX570 is their flagship - that is the same warthog-shape as the LC200, along with the more expensive badge, fake woodwork, and similar dust-sealing and oil-burning capabilities. :angel:

Also - people keep mentioning RR alone... they also forget the RRS is not an RR!

I reckon the comparison should be something like this:
Range Rover vs Lexus LX570
Range Rover Sport vs Toyota LC200 (Warthog!)
Discovery 4 vs Prado (Son of Warthog!)
Freelander vs <No offering from Toyota - they now only do AWD not 4WD>
Defender vs Troopy
<No offering from Land Rover> vs Hilux

Cheers,
Rob

[Disco44]

Now Dobbo..feel free to correct me....but I'm not sure ( Disco44) where you come up with that Dobbo is a Tojo lover:confused:. In fact I think you have missed the point by close to a country mile :p. It is irrevelant whether in your knowledge that a RR and a 200, or D4 and Prado are a mismatch......the point I think being made was the comparison of equivalent models between the two marques based on X criteria...i.e the 200 Sahara is top of the range for toyota.....RRV for LR......for a medium sized family wagon...Toyota has the Prado...LR the Discovery and so forth. The comments made...the way I read it anyway had nothing to do with a biase towards Toyota per se...but to compare like with like ( despite perceived mismatch or not)

Regards

Stevo
Thanks Steve .I didn't read it that way at the time, but can see it now.Sorry Dobbo.
John.