Windows Vista Business or XP Pro SP3 ??

[Fluids]

Well, after 9 years, I have landed in the proverbial forked stick!

I need some advice & direction from those who have been closer to the coal face of recent times than I have....

I use a Toshiba Satellite Pro 4600 (PIII-900 / 512MB / 20G) and have done for the last 9 years to run our business ... running Win98SE. Love it ! :D

Now, stop your finger pointing and sniggering ... it works, takes almost no admin' time and has been bloody bullet-proof. :)

This machine then acts as a mini-server for our accounts app' (MYOB Premier) to 2-3 other PIII machines running Win98SE ... which I'm about to update to some newer (used) Dell desktops/towers which will still run Win98SE (P4 1.8/2.26/2.4). The 1.8 is already up and running Win98SE SP2 and is good to go. I do have a copy of XP Home that came with the 3x Dells and can UP them to XP if I have to. We run Outlook 2000, Word, Excell, some basic email, web browing, parts CD/DVD's and other low end business stuff, and Win98SE just works. :)

Here's my dilema. About 6 months ago, I bought another Sat'Pro 4600 in almost new condition, as I know the one I'm using has gotta be close to karking it ... and about 2 months after buying it, the hinges broke ... #@%!!$# ... oh well, I still have the original, and the newer one now lives in a docking station with the screen wired in the upright position, in the garage, running RAVE ... so much for buying a backup machine to save my bottom when the workhorse dies ...

Yesterday, my 9 year old machine broke it's hinges !!! #@%!!$# ... oh well, now I have to buy another laptop ... so I've picked up a Toshiba Tecra A10 2.53 Core2 Duo 4GB 250GB ... $1250.00 ... and I am resigned to NOT being able to put Win98SE on it (oh I wish :() ... it comes with Vista Business installed and downgrade media to Win XP Pro SP3.

I have a couple of low end machines at home running XP, so I'm kinda familiar with it, but still always go back to my 98SE machines.

What to do ??

Do I stick with Vista Business, or downgrade to XP ??

(downgrade is my first thought as I've heard too much BAD stuff about Vist, but being out of the IT loop for so long, maybe I'm gonna be missing out on something that I'm not aware of ... ?? .. or I'm gonna create a monster, and I don't have time to play PC technician ... I need to run our business.)

Vista Business or XP Pro ?? Whichever I choose ... it's gonna run for another 9 years or more if I can make it go the distance !! :D

Currently, the laptop sits on the front counter, does daily sales, orders and EVERYTHING else, then undocks and goes home so I can keep working ... backup to other PC's before leaving work, and again at home.

My system/s is simple, almost zero admin' time, and get the job done ... hence 9 years (& btw, the Toshiba would average MORE than 23hrs/day, 7 days per week ... for the last 9 years ... amazing!! :eek: )

I'm leaning towards XP Pro .... tell me why/why not to go Vista Business.

Thanks
Kev..

[spudboy]

I'd suggest skipping XP altogether and going straight to Win7. If you are going to learn something new, it might as well be the latest.

I didn't have a good run with Vista, so I stayed with XP until about 3 or 4 months ago, and I went straight to Win7. To date, it has been most stable and all my existing Apps run under it.

As a fallback position. if you already have XP (at no extra cost to you), then just stick with that.

[austastar]

The IT guys at our University are bypassing Vista by hanging on to XP pro SP3 until Windows 7 comes out with at least SP1, maybe SP2.
That's a fairly big department, with a great depth of knowledge.
The news so far on W7 has all been positive, especially with TV tuners etc.
cheers

[incisor]

forget vista and xp and go with windows 7

[abaddonxi]

Looking forward to the first service pack for Win7.

Soon please.

[incisor]

what issues you having...

runs like a treat on my old laptop....

[Fluids]

Ambiguoty abounds :confused: .... I am soooo confused :eek:

Yes, step right up to the plate and go Win7 and stay current ... 'cept the A10 comes with Vista Bus' or XP Pro ... don't really have spare change to BUY Win7 ... that's why it's the current choice between what comes with the A10....

... or am I just being phobic, and I should just puff out my chest and take the chance ?? (I'll admit, XP seems like the easy/comfortable choice only because I've had contact & limited use with it for some years)

I am a musician in my spare time (like the last 36yrs), and I remember all the greif we all had trying to get our app's running under XP (to wit, I still run 98SE for most of my stuff) ... it's pretty stable these days and nobody wants to update to Vista (let alone driver issues) ... but that's 'cause XP's had plenty of time to get sorted ... and there was stuff (hardware) that never got XP drivers written which became (VERY) expensive paper weights ... hence my apprehension of going latest/greatest, and why I've choosen to stay with 98SE for my studio PC/App's/Hardware.

... is that gonna be the case with Win7 ?? ... As I understand it, even MS admit that Vista was a flop and rushed Win7 to market sooner than was planned ... is that gonna be another great MS mistake ?? I don't have the time, or want to be a beta tester for MS :eek:

My 2x kids run Vista on their laptops. Seem happy enough with it. Lottsa glitz & pretty stuff I don't need/want ....

... keep the opinions coming please. I've got about 5 days to make a well informed choice before the A10 arrives.

Oh for the days when a PC was a plain, simple tool, and just did what you needed without sooooo much extra bloat attached.


C:\> blink blink :)

Thanks again !
Kev..

[incisor]

Oh for the days when a PC was a plain, simple tool, and just did what you needed without sooooo much extra bloat attached.

Thanks again !
Kev..

buy a mac :p

thought latest a10s were coming out with xp pro as primary and win7 as recovery media...

[Fluids]

I think this is a slightly earlier A10 ... release date on .pdf doc' from ToshibaAU is July08 ... 18 months ago. It's now listed as a discontinued model, but is coming new in the box with full Toshiba AU warranty.

Mac! ?? LOL :) ... tryin' to kick the burger habit ...

Will Win7 run my older DOS & Win95/98 programs ?? ... will VISTA run them ?? ... some of them I cannot live without.

???..

[incisor]

download the free microsoft virtual machine software and run the older OS's in a window

[PhilipA]

I guess I would agree that WIN 7 would be the go , if you want to spend the money.
However as your ancilliaries die I would think you will find it increasingly difficult to get XP drivers for new printers etc, as MS will at some stage drop XP.
My Vista has been quite stable especially since the SP1 so IMHO if you want to run something run Vista. I run one XP Sp2 and one Vista and I now prefer the Vista.
Regards Philip A

[Fluids]

Thanks incisor.

Run the older OS's in a window .... meaning, I have to (have a copy to install) and install each DOS & Win98SE & XP as well as Win7 .... 4 OS's loaded. 1 x native, and 3x which run in a virtual machine ??

Kev..

[Ferret]

I think this is a slightly earlier A10 ... release date on .pdf doc' from ToshibaAU is July08 ... 18 months ago. It's now listed as a discontinued model, but is coming new in the box with full Toshiba AU warranty.

Mac! ?? LOL :) ... tryin' to kick the burger habit ...

Will Win7 run my older DOS & Win95/98 programs ?? ... will VISTA run them ?? ... some of them I cannot live without.

???..

Probably not an exhaustive software list but you could try here. Whether it goes back to DOS era programmes is another question

Vista Software Compatibility Center (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/en-us/default.aspx)

Windows 7 Software Compatibility Center (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/default.aspx)

If you find your DOS programs are not compatable and you can't do without them you can use DOS emulators such as 'DOSBox' (free) directly from within XP, Vista or Win 7. I use it for some old DOS stuff I have which will not even run under XP.

Provided all service packs are applied to Vista I think you will find it is not quite as bad as you might be expecting.

[steveG]

Whatever you choose make sure its not Vista. Slow, bloated, and most businesses were smart enough to give it a miss.

XP is bullet-proof and been around for a long time now. You should be able to find information on ANY issue you happen to have.

Windows 7 seemed to be stable when we tested various pre-production releases at work, but our first actual "release" install a couple of days ago has had a couple of glitches that we hadn't had previously.

Out of interest, did you have to replace the hard drive at all on your old notebook during the 9 years?
I think that drives were made a lot better back then and seemed to last longer (either that or the old operating systems didn't hammer them so hard).
I've seen numerous hard disk failures on notebooks over the last few years - starting at about 2 years old and quite common when over 3 years old. If we redeploy a notebook thats over 3 years old we usually replace the hard disk as a preventative measure.

Steve

[abaddonxi]

what issues you having...

runs like a treat on my old laptop....

Sometimes it just likes to have a rest. Mysterious browser crashes, recovers very nicely just about every time. Flash crashes, Acrobat crashes. Problem installing Office. Registry problem between Chrome and FF.

Slow-ish.

Nothing terminal, just mildly irritating.

[350RRC]

buy a mac :p

Yep, and like buying my 74 RRC, everyday in so many ways I'm glad I did.

cheers, DL

[djam1]

Vista is evil avoid it at all costs
XP SP3 is pretty good I personally think Windows 7 is the go
Windows 7 is really Vista Sp4 its very stable quite frankly I think its better than XP.
Oh I make my living fixing XP

[incisor]

Thanks incisor.

Run the older OS's in a window .... meaning, I have to (have a copy to install) and install each DOS & Win98SE & XP as well as Win7 .... 4 OS's loaded. 1 x native, and 3x which run in a virtual machine ??

Kev..

just install 98 as that gives you dos and winblows...

plenty of suitable images around.....

[Fluids]

However as your ancilliaries die I would think you will find it increasingly difficult to get XP drivers for new printers etc, as MS will at some stage drop XP.
Regards Philip A

Thanks Phillip A ... point taken. Had many colleagues who went through that drama in the music business who now have some lovely paperweights! :eek: Printers seem to not last too long these days, so drivers may be an issue for XP down the track. Good point!

I'm running XP Pro SP2 on the newer SatPro4600 (the one I'm typing on now). Apart from the fact it's a bit slow, it works OK.

My main concern is keeping the work environment as close to zero admin' as possible ... I'm the IT dude, and salesman, mechanic, accounts clerk, purchasing officer, storeman, customer relations manager .... and I have 3x other PC's which need to all talk over the network .... looks like they may all have to go UP to XP from 98SE ...

At least I can make XP LOOK like Win98SE ... :D

Thanks. Kev..

[incisor]

Sometimes it just likes to have a rest. Mysterious browser crashes, recovers very nicely just about every time. Flash crashes, Acrobat crashes. Problem installing Office. Registry problem between Chrome and FF.

Slow-ish.

Nothing terminal, just mildly irritating.
what browser crashes? and what addons do you have installed in it?

why in hell would you have chrome and ff installed?

[Fluids]

Probably not an exhaustive software list but you could try here. Whether it goes back to DOS era programmes is another question

Vista Software Compatibility Center (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/en-us/default.aspx)

Windows 7 Software Compatibility Center (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/default.aspx)

If you find your DOS programs are not compatable and you can't do without them you can use DOS emulators such as 'DOSBox' (free) directly from within XP, Vista or Win 7. I use it for some old DOS stuff I have which will not even run under XP.

Provided all service packs are applied to Vista I think you will find it is not quite as bad as you might be expecting.


Thanks Ferret. Seems almost ALL my software may be too old :o ... none of it's listed, and the only one that is, says it's not compatible with Win7 ... our accounting & sales software!! :angel: (MYOB Premier v7)

The DOS idea is good. Thanks! or ... build a dedicated DOS box ... I've got a dozen or more older PII/III boxes stored away that all run OK. Just means I have to work on a dedicated box instead of from the laptop. I can do that.

Might borrow one of the kids Vista laptops over the weekend and see if it works for me. The kids say they prefer it to XP.

Thanks again! Kev..

[Fluids]

Whatever you choose make sure its not Vista. Slow, bloated, and most businesses were smart enough to give it a miss.

XP is bullet-proof and been around for a long time now. You should be able to find information on ANY issue you happen to have.

Out of interest, did you have to replace the hard drive at all on your old notebook during the 9 years?
I think that drives were made a lot better back then and seemed to last longer (either that or the old operating systems didn't hammer them so hard).
I've seen numerous hard disk failures on notebooks over the last few years - starting at about 2 years old and quite common when over 3 years old. If we redeploy a notebook thats over 3 years old we usually replace the hard disk as a preventative measure.

Steve


Steve ... It comments like that, that have me on the back foot about Vista ... Hmmmmmm ?

XP is bullet proof ... just like 98SE is for me ... and I've always been able to solve any issues I struck thank to a quick google search. There's more than enough knowledge available now that everyone else has trodden the narrow paths ... so that's a BIG plus for me in XP's favour.

Yes, the hard drive is the original. I bought the machine 2nd hand, ex corporate lease, 18 months old, 9 years ago. Runs all weekend non-stop, and only gets turned off/on to go to and from work. They don't build them like they used to. So the drive it may be 10.5yrs old.

I've got a couple of portable 8 & 16 track hard disk audio workstations ... they use 2.5" laptop IDE drives. Playback 16 tracks of WAV data at 5MB/Min/Track ... those drives get an absolute thrashing, and are still going OK at 6yrs & 10yrs respectivley ... but at the end of every session I backup to a scsi RAID array ... :cool:

I think the fact that my laptop drive never cools down (very often) and stays running at a reasonably constant temperature has contributed to its long life.

Cheers. Kev..

[Fluids]

Vista is evil avoid it at all costs
XP SP3 is pretty good I personally think Windows 7 is the go
Windows 7 is really Vista Sp4 its very stable quite frankly I think its better than XP.
Oh I make my living fixing XP


Ooo, Ooo, another Vista basher! :D Thank you for your honesty!

Even though it's maybe getting a bit dated, XP SP3 is looking good.

One thing in my favour ... the A10 comes with, and will run Vista Business, comes with and will run XP Pro SP3 ... and after a quick check, it seems I'll qualify for a free upgrade to Win7 from Toshiba !! Wooo Hooo !! :cool:

So maybe I get the free upgrade to Win7, but start with XP and work my way up to Vista Bus' or Win7.

Thanks for the advice!
Kev..

[Fluids]

just install 98 as that gives you dos and winblows...

plenty of suitable images around.....


OK. Thanks for that. I have plenty of Win98SE media :)

Will Win7 work OK in a mixed network environment of XP & Win98SE ??

Will it allow my older 98SE or XP machines to access files on the Win7 machine ?

Kev..

[El Duderino]

I am a musician in my spare time (like the last 36yrs), and I remember all the greif we all had trying to get our app's running under XP (to wit, I still run 98SE for most of my stuff) ... it's pretty stable these days and nobody wants to update to Vista (let alone driver issues) ... but that's 'cause XP's had plenty of time to get sorted ... and there was stuff (hardware) that never got XP drivers written which became (VERY) expensive paper weights ... hence my apprehension of going latest/greatest, and why I've choosen to stay with 98SE for my studio PC/App's/Hardware.

Sounds like you should have bought a Mac, especially as music is your thing...they're the premium machine hands-down. I even run Vista Ultimate on it and never once had an issue. Vista's hated because it's not as nerd-friendly, and was created to be more user friendly. I've got 2 Macs n 2 Toshibas, and I don't trust the pc platform as far as I can throw it. Been burned enough times and not being suckered into the same mistake 4x's in a row. :wasntme:

[abaddonxi]

what browser crashes? and what addons do you have installed in it?

why in hell would you have chrome and ff installed?

I'm a free-spirit, man. I can't be tied down to just one browser.



On 7 it's Opera and FF, oh and I think IE once or twice. On Vista it was FF and Chrome.

So yeah, just about all of them.

Only Au dictionary and Adblock addons in FF.

[incisor]

OK. Thanks for that. I have plenty of Win98SE media :)

Will Win7 work OK in a mixed network environment of XP & Win98SE ??

Will it allow my older 98SE or XP machines to access files on the Win7 machine ?

Kev..

works fine at my place, mac sees it easily as well...

[Fluids]

Sounds like you should have bought a Mac, especially as music is your thing...they're the premium machine hands-down.

El Duderino ... today maybe, yes. 10-15 years ago ... no. Win98SE was a good choice for the small footprint back then. Hard drives were small AND expensive. I never used the PC platform to record audio ... I use/d stand alone dedicated audio workstations which were just basically dedicated audio PC's with a dedicated hardware interface .. they don't crash, don't need constant software updates ... and like 98SE, they just keep working.

I used the 98SE PC's for everything else (editing, librarian editors, patch controllers for synths, MIDI, etc, etc) ... Mac's weren't up to the task back then, just like PC's weren't either (imho) ... and they were WAY more expensive.

Vista on a Mac! ? The lines are blurring (Intel Mac's, right ?)

Kev..

[Fluids]

works fine at my place, mac sees it easily as well...

Thanks Incisor ... thats good to know.

[Fluids]

UPDATE - Just got off the phone to Toshiba.

The A10 will come with Vista Business installed, and a set of media to do an XP Pro SP3 downgrade.

Because the purchase was made between July 2009 & Jan 2010, I qualify for a FREE upgrade to Win7 Professional (redeemable online with a $29.95 shipping & handling charge). The upgrade/update only works if Vista Business is installed on the hard drive.

The A10 has a routine to allow me to make a full set of Vista Business recovery discs. So I can downgrade to XP if I so desire, after making the Vista Recovery discs, get the free Win7 Pro upgrade, and if I wish to step-up to Win7 all I have to do is re-install Vista Business first (the upgrade won't work/qualify if XP is installed on the hard drive).

So I end up with 3 operating systems for a measley extra $29.95. How good is that! I can start with Vista Business (gulp) as installed and go either way ... gives me a chance to try out Vista & Win7 and if XP ends up being the chosen platform, I can always update later if driver availabilty for my ancilliaries becomes an issue.

... here comes the learning curve :eek:

A very big THANK YOU to all who've weighed in so far. PC support via a Land Rover forum ... gotta love this place! ;)

Kev..

[incisor]

you will find vista business will be more stable on the a10 than xp will be...

and win 7 more stable again...

sounds like your on a winner.....

[Fluids]

Thanks incisor ... and hello from my new A10 & Vista Business :)

My head is spinning ... how much extra crap is loaded in eh ? Out of the box there's already 20gig used ... on what!!??

Makes good ol' 98SE look very plain and boring ... but by jingo don't it GO like the proverbial clappers! .... I managed comfortably with 20gig ... and I've got 250gig to fill ...

... and it's all UPHILL from here ! Why the @#$% does it ask me to confirm every bloody action I take ... OF COURSE I want to run the program ... didn't I JUST CLICK ON THE iCON ?? Grrrr ... it turns off, right ? ... just gotta find WHERE ... took me 20min's just to get it connected to the wireless router at home ... and at work, I could just share a folder in 98SE and PRESTO, it's available on the network ... 2 freakin' hours to get talkin' to 98SE & XP boxes ... sharing & file permissions ... takes me back to my early UNIX days .... sigh :(

Now, back to installing software.
Kev..

Thanks for all the advice everyone ... time will tell. It's making me feel like a bit of a dinosaur ! <LOL>

[incisor]

I could just share a folder in 98SE and PRESTO, it's available on the network ...

and the world :p

[Fluids]

... well, since I,ve had no issues at all in the last 9years I guess what I'm doing ain't of much interest to the rest of the world ! :)

Kev..