frame materials for Road or Mountain

[EchiDna]

following on from the ongoing groupset thread - I thought I'd ask another common cycling related question - what is your choice of frameset material (money no object, brand not considered). Of course this is for the FRAME, not components like seat posts, stems and handlebars... but feel free to comment on these too...

[EchiDna]

personally I'm hoping to buy a custom made titanium road frame in the new year - equipped with carbon damped contact points like Easton EC90 series seat post, stem, handlebars... would love a Baum, but the budget probably says something made in Taiwan :(

[Blknight.aus]

I'm a fan of the ally stuff, IVe ridden on carbon and titanium frames. but Ive never had the opportunity to compare the same frame design made from different materials.

[gone bush]

ridden on all and they all have pros and cons but for all round - carbon wins hands down for me

[jaseh]

Steel. All the others have their place but for ride quality and durability steel does it for me.

Although I do ride an alloy dually at the moment.

[Scouse]

Steel. All the others have their place but for ride quality and durability steel does it for me.

I've only ever ridden steel framed bicycles & was most surprised when one of the guys in my LBS said he actually preferred steel frames for the ride quality. I'd never even considered that the weight difference would have that effect.

[Scallops]

I have a fine example of a steel frame (Reynolds), a carbon frame (OCLV 110) and an Alloy frame (ZR9000). Each has it's own strengths and weaknesses. Titanium is also a quality frame material - I used to ride a Merlin which was different again. Makes it hard to choose a poll option :D

I use each for a different purpose - my carbon bike is my daily ride, my alloy bike is on the mag trainer, and my steel bike is a track bike. I use them as "fit for purpose". It's a personal choice. My (former) coach uses a carbon track bike, for example.

You will often hear "new to cycling" guys say, "Just ride carbon - they are so soooooth". So they (generally) are. But a quality Brisbane built Llewellyn steel frame is the equal to any other frame on the planet. ;) , not to mention a work of art....it's how the frame is built - as well as the material.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://img227.imageshack.us/i/aaahighlight.jpg/)

[isuzurover]

I've only ever ridden steel framed bicycles & was most surprised when one of the guys in my LBS said he actually preferred steel frames for the ride quality. I'd never even considered that the weight difference would have that effect.

The biggest difference in ride quality comes from the ability of the frame to flex. If you ride a steel-framed mountain bike, and then get on a (near) identical al.alloy framed one, you will notice a huge difference in comfort based on the ability of the frame (mainly the rear triangle) to flex. Which makes it more comfortable and often helps you keep power to the ground over corrugations.

Not sure if it would make a difference on a road bike though...?

I have F+R suspension for flex these days ;)

[Scouse]

The biggest difference in ride quality comes from the ability of the frame to flex. If you ride a steel-framed mountain bike, and then get on a (near) identical al.alloy framed one, you will notice a huge difference in comfort based on the ability of the frame (mainly the rear triangle) to flex. So, the alloy flexes but the steel doesn't?

I was under the impression from the LBS that the comfort came from the extra weight in the steel frame; ie - it doesn't buck around as much compared to the lightweight frames.

[isuzurover]

So, the alloy flexes but the steel doesn't?

I was under the impression from the LBS that the comfort came from the extra weight in the steel frame; ie - it doesn't buck around as much compared to the lightweight frames.

No, the other way around. Steel frames are made from smaller diameter and thinner wall tubing, and have more flex, which means they can smooth out small imperfections in the road/track.

EDIT - there was even a hardtail (ti?) frame available years ago which had rigid/solid chainstays but a shock in the seat stay to promote more frame flex in the rear end.

EDIT 2 - here is a pic of one:
http://www.on-one-shop.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/on-one_softtail6.jpg

Steel and Ti frames can flex a bit in the rear end - providing a supple ride - with no issues. If an Al frame flexes to much it will rapidly fatigue and fail.

[Scouse]

No, the other way around. Steel frames are made from smaller diameter and thinner wall tubing, and have more flex, which means they can smooth out small imperfections in the road/track.

Ahh, that explains it :).

[EchiDna]

I agree on the horses for courses idea, but can't afford 2-3 frames @ $2-3k a piece, so I'm going for a combination of longevity, comfort and beauty... hence titanium. In the high humidity climate here, aluminium gets all kind of weird galvanic corrosion issues after a few years, steel rusts and I've seen too many carbon frames with cracks etc after coming off in criteriums or group rides... plus I like the classic look of a Ti frame e.g. http://172.31.254.242/farm4.static.flickr.comm/3415/3593433017_b060fbedee.jpg

[slug_burner]

ally frame, carbon forks. One with carbon seat post.

[isuzurover]

I would only ever buy a carbon frame - or critical components - if I raced XC or road (semi)professionally.

For recreational use, the chances of something like this happening:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/12/1354.jpg make it not worth the risk IMHO.

Steel and Ti bend (usually) and while AL may fracture in a similar way, it usually gives you plenty of warning (so long as you wash/clean your bike regularly).

[Scallops]

I would only ever buy a carbon frame - or critical components - if I raced XC or road (semi)professionally.
.

Is club racing an OK excuse? :o

I'm fat and old now :p but I did ride my very same Madone to a few State Medallions, so I reckon I'm justified to potter to work on it still. :D

[isuzurover]

Is club racing an OK excuse? :o

I'm fat and old now :p but I did ride my very same Madone to a few State Medallions, so I reckon I'm justified to potter to work on it still. :D

I only said what I would do - you are free to do whatever you want (or believe whatever you want - no wait, that is another thread...).

But it sounds like a good excuse to me. Better to use it than let it gather dust ;)

[Scallops]

Yeah - sorry, re-reading my post, I didn't mean to sound cranky. :) I actually had one bloke (another cyclist) accuse me of knicking it the other day - just 'cos I was wearing a drill cotton safety shirt and not lycra! :eek:

[Scallops]

So, the alloy flexes but the steel doesn't?

I was under the impression from the LBS that the comfort came from the extra weight in the steel frame....

Steel frames can actually be as light as anything else - just depends on the actual steel used and the maker's design. :)

[Scouse]

Steel frames can actually be as light as anything else - just depends on the actual steel used and the maker's design. :)I think mine is made from RSJ :(.

Still, it gives the legs a workout :D.

[Sith]

My road trainer is a Ridley Damoclese 09 full carbon , my race bike is Ridley Noah full carbon even the SMP saddle ... started on steel graduated to alloy .. but there is no comprimise when it comes to carbon fibre and geometry

[3 Sisters]

I think carbon is the best for frames, however, there's not enough knowledge and skill behind it, so it's like buying a metal frame made by a novice welder. Bars and posts are not the best application for carbon as there's not enough room to benefit from it's strengths and it has to be built to withstand the crushing force of the stem, brakes etc, so to keep it light, it has to have some sacrifice. If punters could be trusted to run the right bolt torques they could probably make these components lighter.
Lahar, (the carbon made DH frames)out last nearly anything I've heard of(for weight), the first 5 he made did 7 seasons of elite riders thrashing them(often not owners, so they were abused)without any failures,and most are still being raced(I think still without failures).
Carbon if not pushed beyond it's elasticity point(same with all materials)has a high resistance to failure from flexing(as does Ti), is stiffest for weight, and most durable, even from scratches if made right, and layered right.
The army and airforce, formular one etc, don't use carbon for any other reason other than it's structural benefits, moldability and longevity.
The weight game, and lack of experience/knowledge is what gives carbon a bad wrap, boosted by the horror stories that can't be shaken, that people regurgitate to replace having any experience with carbon.
I like steel and Ti though.

[rick130]

My road trainer is a Ridley Damoclese 09 full carbon , my race bike is Ridley Noah full carbon even the SMP saddle ... started on steel graduated to alloy .. but there is no comprimise when it comes to carbon fibre and geometry

Big George Hincapie's new BMC is half aluminium, half carbon.
BMC say it's stiffer through the BB than their full carbon frame.

All materials have their pro's and con's and all can make an excellent frame, but from a mass marketing POV these days if it isn't carbon it doesn't sell, regardless of how heavy/dodgy some of the cheapy stuff is.....

[rick130]

My road trainer is a Ridley Damoclese 09 full carbon , my race bike is Ridley Noah full carbon even the SMP saddle ... started on steel graduated to alloy .. but there is no comprimise when it comes to carbon fibre and geometry

Nice rides, and from what I've seen beautifully finished.

[rick130]

<snip>

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9962/aaahighlight.jpg (http://img227.imageshack.us/i/aaahighlight.jpg/)

I just glanced at the pic and knew without reading a sentence who made that ;)

[isuzurover]

So nobody like MOOTS Ti frames???
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/02/1596.jpg

[Killer]

So nobody like MOOTS Ti frames???
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/02/1596.jpg

I like the welds.

Cheers, Mick.

[rick130]

So nobody like MOOTS Ti frames???


I'd love one, but $$$$$$$ :eek:

Just like Litespeed for a roadie, or Seven, or better still Baum ('cause they're Aussie :thumbsup: )

[dobbo]

I rode to the station at 0200hrs this morning on my nice light weight ally framed MTB, beautiful. I left work on route to Central station at 1400hrs on my nice light weight ally framed MTB. Half way there I narrowly missing a taxi who was too busy on his mobile phone to worry about his occupational responsibilties, the front brake gripped, the back wheel rose, my massive bulk shifted the frame 90 degrees to the left. therefore I rode the rear of my nice light weight ally framed MTB into a tree.

Result 1 buckled wheel, 3 broken spokes, 1 slightly bent crank.

I rode my nice light weight ally framed MTB (that was handling and vibrating and gear shifting like my 110) into the bike shop.

I rode the loaner, bulk carrier complete with truck sized suspension seat, home.

My legs are on fire. I allready miss my nice light weight ally framed MTB, my carbon seat pole and decent seat, my nice front shocks, my decent gear selectors, not these go round abominations

[isuzurover]

I rode to the station at 0200hrs this morning on my nice light weight ally framed MTB, beautiful. I left work on route to Central station at 1400hrs on my nice light weight ally framed MTB. Half way there I narrowly missing a taxi who was too busy on his mobile phone to worry about his occupational responsibilties, the front brake gripped, the back wheel rose, my massive bulk shifted the frame 90 degrees to the left. therefore I rode the rear of my nice light weight ally framed MTB into a tree.

Result 1 buckled wheel, 3 broken spokes, 1 slightly bent crank.

I rode my nice light weight ally framed MTB (that was handling and vibrating and gear shifting like my 110) into the bike shop.

I rode the loaner, bulk carrier complete with truck sized suspension seat, home.

My legs are on fire. I allready miss my nice light weight ally framed MTB, my carbon seat pole and decent seat, my nice front shocks, my decent gear selectors, not these go round abominations

A real mountainbiker would have pulled a bunny hop onto the roof of the taxi, rather than swerve ;) :D

Just think how nice your bike will feel when you get it back, and the extra strength you will have from riding the loaner;)

[dobbo]

A real mountainbiker would have pulled a bunny hop onto the roof of the taxi, rather than swerve ;) :D

Just think how nice your bike will feel when you get it back, and the extra strength you will have from riding the loaner;)


I'm honestly thinking of trading in the Tyax and getting a Cell.

[isuzurover]

I'm honestly thinking of trading in the Tyax and getting a Cell.

Or you could buy a real mountainbike :wasntme:







(I must be out of the loop - I had to google cell bikes and read some reviews - the GMC/ozito of the bike world!)

[dobbo]

Or you could buy a real mountainbike :wasntme:







(I must be out of the loop - I had to google cell bikes and read some reviews - the GMC/ozito of the bike world!)

I commute on the train 3 hrs to sydney, would you want to lock up a real MTB and fall asleep? If a $1000 XC/commuter style hardtail goes missing, I'd be Peed off but I would not start a woe is me style tread and pop the anti sad make me glad pills.

If I lost a decent bike to some scum bag, lets just say Ron would have an itchy finger due to the profanities he'd be deleting and the resulting infringement points.

[isuzurover]

I commute on the train 3 hrs to sydney, would you want to lock up a real MTB and fall asleep? If a $1000 XC/commuter style hardtail goes missing, I'd be Peed off but I would not start a woe is me style tread and pop the anti sad make me glad pills.

If I lost a decent bike to some scum bag, lets just say Ron would have an itchy finger due to the profanities he'd be deleting and the resulting infringement points.

Fair enough, but if it was me I would build something cool (and cheap) for that purpose... Like an ultralight rigid single speed using mostly SH components.

[dobbo]

Fair enough, but if it was me I would build something cool (and cheap) for that purpose... Like an ultralight rigid single speed using mostly SH components.

I wish I had the time

[rick130]

Here's an interesting quote from Fausto Pinarello from an interview a couple of years back when asked about the bike industry embracing all things carbon...


"Scandium aluminium has not been fully exploited and there's already another alloy which they're calling G7 that is lighter still, but it's still metal.
We don't know if consumers will be interested. They want carbon-fibre because it's light and it's new but in my opinion metals - magnesium, titanium and aluminium - are still the best materials for bicycles, but not the lightest"

[Spenboyd]

I ride a steel Salsa frame from the US and love it, I find after going from large diameter ali to this bike the difference in vibration and harshness is very noticeable and as a result I find it smoother and much less fatiguing

[EchiDna]

been loving my latest secondhand litespeed of late... carbon contact points and classic looks with campy record throughout. So nice to ride