How well does your V8 Disco tow?

[nsgnomad]

I am beginning to wonder if there is something wrong with my 3.9 auto LPG D1 as I am a bit disappointed in how it tows. I have been towing a tandem axle 18ft poptop with an ATM of 1950kg and it would be virtually at its ATM. Inside the Disco are 3 adults and about 50kg of gear in the cargo area (plus of course the extra weight of the LPG & tank). I find that going up hills is a bit of a pain cause it slows down so much.

To give you an idea, going up Cunningham's Gap in SE Qld, on full throttle it settled to 40kph @ around 2100rpm (2nd gear). For those of you who live in NSW and know the road, coming back from Bathurst to Katoomba, on the steepest section I was down to 20kph in 1st, again @ around 2000rpm. The vehicle has done about 150K and the engine runs smoothly and doesn't blow any smoke. Fuel comsumption seems to be about the same as others have mentioned on this forum.

From what I have read in the many posts here, the V8 is usually regarded as having plenty of power (torque) but it doesn't seem that way in my experience. Yes I know it is a heavy vehicle, but I didn't expect it to struggle like that.

Trouble is I haven't anything to compare it with so I am hoping other members can post their own experience towing similar vans.

Anyone's help & comments would be appreciated.

Roger

[V8Ian]

Different gas conversions give vastly varying results.

[Rayngie]

Got a mate who has a V8 3.9 Discovery and tows a 2.5t wakeboard boat.....veery slowly and painfully...he hates it.

Ray,

[V8Landy]

Mine is slow on hills. Steep sections going from Colac To Apollo bay i go back to 2nd. 1st gear at 2000 revs seems a bit slow, I would of thought that it should be able to rev a little higher.

[discowhite]

how well do they tow?? no where near as good as a chipped TD5:twisted:

the last thing i towed up the gap was a ford customline and 2 351 motors, i stopped and changed to low range half way up, that was a stock 3.5 S1 disco.
on the flat it was ok, would happily hold 100kph.

cheers phil

[haggisbasher]

I had a 95 Disco that was standard except for a set of extractors and a 2.5" exhaust. Used to tow a 16ft fibreglass half cabin with it and it went like stink! Hardly knew it was on the back except when slowing. Could easily hold some cars from a standing start.... a few surprised folks used to look across and see me... still there matey!

Only excitement i ever had with it was when some moron in a little buzz box cut infront of me in the city.... filling my nice stopping gap with a small lump of metal. It was very nearly a foot shorter.... but my ABS kicked in and pulled us up well.

Cheers

Chris

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

I recently towed a tri axle trailer and a tractor with water filled tyres, close to the 3.5 tonne limit, was managing 90 kph on the highway, did the hills ok with a run up.
3.9 V8 on Gas. --- (Scorcher Dizzy though).
It impressed the bro inlaw so he bought a disco too

[PeteandKyla]

Hi Everyone.

I bought a D2 V8 5 speed to tow my dingo and trailer and was always extremely dissapointed with the performance and particularly the fuel economy. It ran on straight petrol and I expected it to have loads of torque for towing but it was a wet blanket!!!!

My biggest problem with the injected V8s is that it seems that in an attempt to make the cars smoother, Land Rover have removed ALL of the throttle sensitivity. I have never driven a multipoint injected engine which was so soft and unresposive. (landrover mechanics who drove it thought it went very well!!??)

I have ended up selling the disco :( (still miss the quiet ride and electronic eveything) and bought a 300Tdi Defender 130. It uses less fuel, can run vegetable oil or WVO and after injection pump tweaks (which I can do myself!) the turbo diesels have ALOT more torque for towing. I can now put the dingo on the tray and tow an excavator on the trailer. Defender struggles abit uphills fully loaded but will do 120-130 on the flat and unbelievably will still overtake with 3.5tons load! (mind you that might be more the terribly slow drivers on the highway out here)

GET A DIESEL!!!!

[haggisbasher]

Want to add... i now have a 95 Def and much prefer it for towing... although i now no longer have a boat :(

Will concur, when towing go the diesel.

chris

[DaveS3]

I've towed cars with my 3.9.

Ok on highway, on hills it is bad.
Petrol is much better, gas is absolutely hopeless.

I avoid towing now....

Cheers
Dave

[big guy]

My 3.9 did O.K

Tried running on 98Octane?

They are gutless and also see if the ball weight is unusually high, I found that did help me.

I have always avoided towing with it.
The 4.6 high comp waith Haltech on the other hand, you would barely notice a trailer.

For towing such heavy weights and 2ton is heavy, make no mistake I always avoided top gear 5th that is and also had my brakes upgraded to some from APS from memory.
Big difference.

The speed you tow up a hill should be relative to the speed going down the hill.
Thats for trucks mainly but it does show you how much weight there is.

Pop a 4.6 in and see a big difference.

[wovenrovings]

How fast you can climb a hill is controlled purely by how much excess power you have doing the same speed on the flat.
So i did a quick calculation and if your disco and camper trailer have an all up weight of 4.5tonne. To climb a 10% grade (which is a really steep hill on a main road) at 40kph you would be using 49kW of engine power purely lifting all that weight against gravity. I had a quick peek at the specs for the 3.9V8 and its peak torque is at about 3100 rpm at this rpm you would have about 100kW on tap whereas at 2100rpm you would have only 65kW to use (assuming a flat torque curve, which it definitely doesn't have, so you would in reality have less that 65kW). So with losses and amount it would take to move 4.5tonne along the flat at 40kmph, your hill climbing speed sounds about right. However if you had dropped it back to first at the same speed you would have had about 3200rpm and I reckon you would have been able to accelerate. Redline isn't till 4750rpm so you had a ways to go.

What i am saying is if you want to climb hills faster you basicly need to give is more revs. This is why a run up sometimes works.

This is also where diesels coming. Peak torque on a diesel is much lower say at about 1900rpm for an isuzu. This means a much larger amount of maximum power is available at the lower revs. (Power is what counts when climbing hills). So you don't have to revs as hard and you have a wider rpm band to play with. Have you been climbing a hill in a diesel and had a car in front slow you down. The engine falls below peak torque and you stuffed. Whereas petrol you have half a chance of accelerating again.

Hope i haven't confused you with numbers. I was hoping to explain why it behaves like it does.

Dan.

If you want to how i worked anything out just asked.

[rovercare]

Hope i haven't confused you with numbers. I was hoping to explain why it behaves like it does.

.

Even easier way to explain it.........the piddly wover V8 just doesn;t have the capacity nor compression ratio to perform such a task well:D

He'll be needing to get used to it, or get rid of it;)

I've towed with heaps of rover 8's, 3.5, 3.9, 4.6, blown 3.9, they all suck towing heavy weights, no if's, no buts:(

[Pedro_The_Swift]

what he said,,
V8 peak torque and power are up there ^^^

The D2 will quite happily tow the 1200kg camper at 115 to 120 up hill and down dale.
no ifs or buts.

but hates sitting on 100.

as woven says,, its just maths.

[Grumndriva]

Pedro is right. Like most English engines it needs revs. 2,000 is simply not enough. You need at least 2200 to get anywere, and 3000 and up is where you want to be for hills. Torque drops off quickly with revs.

We tow a 2.6 tonne dirt road van with our 4.6 litre auto D2 and don't have a problem. The old 4.0 was quite marginal however.

On the freeway, as Pedro says, the 4.6 would pull all day at 115 kph in top if that were safe, but it will not pull below 100 kph in top.

The 4.6 runs happily on 95 octane, but 98 makes a significant difference.

[nsgnomad]

Thanks everyone for the replies.
Found out the other day when I had check done on the LPG system that timing was out by 4 deg. First impression in normal driving is there is some improvement since but haven't had a chance to test it towing.

Does anyone know how easy it is to get a 4.6 and how much they are?

Thanks again
Roger

[Pedro_The_Swift]

This is just my thoughts,,,

but if I was thinking of better towing performance out of my V8,,
it would be a 4.9 stroker with a decent cam,,

this would mean a longer term relationship with my D2.

[Grumndriva]

To answer the specific question, Triumph Rover Spares (TRS) in Adelaide can provide a range of built up engines for the various models in various capacities. I got my 4.6 factory new via Land Rover, but if I were doing it again I would buy a TRS engine which has been "top hatted" to prevent liner slip.

From memory, a 4.6 for a D2 is around $5-6,000, and they freight anywhere very efficiently. They may not be the cheapest, but they are great to deal with and totally reliable.

TRS web site http://www.triumphroverspares.com.au/page.asp?parentid=5&parent2id=15

They have a 4.6 on special on that page for $3995.

[djam1]

My old stage 1 Series tows quite well it has a high compression 3.5 and is undergeared it just seems to work

[Tank]

There is no substitute for Cubic Inches, any engine (petrol) less than 5L is going to struggle hauling 4.5T up hills, esp. on LPG, unless you have the LPG injection setup. Maybe a piggyback chip that can adjust the spark timing for optimal performance on LPG would help matters.
But it still boils down to Cubic Inches are needed to haul heavy loads, or look to a Diesel, Regards Frank.

[twitchy]

I think you guys miss the point that it CAN tow that much with a piddly 3.9L.

If you intend to keep towing then you ned to change the cam profile for the specific job at hand, maybe check the condition of said engine as well.

As for Cunninghams gap it is bloody steep mate, My D2 was in second at one point with about 2 1/2 ton behind it & it would drag that weight at 130 easy as.

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

Have you checked your vacuum advance unit? If it is faulty, then you wouldn't be going too well up hills either

[INter674]

Even easier way to explain it.........the piddly wover V8 just doesn;t have the capacity nor compression ratio to perform such a task well:D

He'll be needing to get used to it, or get rid of it;)

I've towed with heaps of rover 8's, 3.5, 3.9, 4.6, blown 3.9, they all suck towing heavy weights, no if's, no buts:(

WRONG about the blown 3.9 - our's tows a triple horse float and with a gross weight of around 2000kg (float plus two horses) and it will accelerate and hold speed on hills easily. Indeed, on boost it will accelerate too fast for the horses' comfort, and has plenty of power in reserve even on the steepest hills. I can't really speak for the normal 3.9 but our old 3.5D1 5 speed we had towed 3 tonnes of trailer plus super quite well I thought, provided you got onto the revs early.

We also recently followed a 4.5L twin cam 80 series with one horse aboard a double float (800kg), and the blown 3.9 easily out performed it on all hills towing the triple (1300kg) plus 2 horses. The 80 series owner was disappointed it would not get over 45kph (second gear) going up the Southern Outlet from Hobart with one horse aboard, whereas we easily got 60kph.

PS for every hill there is a decent, so what's the problem?? Speed it not everything especially when towing. Ever seen a rig get the swee-sways - not pretty.

[INter674]

Have you checked your vacuum advance unit? If it is faulty, then you wouldn't be going too well up hills either

Spot on- our's was pathetic on all fronts until it was serviced and timed - the VAC was also kaput, plug leads stuffed etc etc

[Chops]

I've had to tow a few cars around the place, towed my old 5.5mt boat up to QLD, and the best thing I found was to make sure the timing was right, and use 98 0tc fuel,,, and then, as some other suggested, keep the revs up.:burnrubber:
If its an auto, you can still pick the gear you want when you think you need it,,, you won't hurt it.
And when you crest some hills, starting down them at 100-110 k's with a big load is not always a good idea, especially if you dont know the road. :eek:

But when towing, like 99% of most of the others on the road, we come to a hill, and we slow up a bit,, (ok,, sometimes a lot :() Now I dont know about you guys, but when I'm towing a big heavy load, I'm happy to be almost forced to slow down to a gentler pace, (even if its only 500mts worth), it gives you a chance to relax your mind from what "should be" a high concerntration zone and keep going longer/safer.

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

You could always fit a Nitrous Oxide (spelling).
I reckon a few motorist have. :eek:
When ever I get stuck behind a slow moving vehicle hauling a caravan and get to a 500 metre long overtaking lane and are about to overtake these bozos, they flick the switch on the Nitrous Oxide and gain that extra Horsepower, then slow down again when it's unsafe to overtake:wallbash:

[rovercare]

WRONG about the blown 3.9 - our's tows a triple horse float and with a gross weight of around 2000kg (float plus two horses) and it will accelerate and hold speed on hills easily. Indeed, on boost it will accelerate too fast for the horses' comfort, and has plenty of power in reserve even on the steepest hills. I can't really speak for the normal 3.9 but our old 3.5D1 5 speed we had towed 3 tonnes of trailer plus super quite well I thought, provided you got onto the revs early.

We also recently followed a 4.5L twin cam 80 series with one horse aboard a double float (800kg), and the blown 3.9 easily out performed it on all hills towing the triple (1300kg) plus 2 horses. The 80 series owner was disappointed it would not get over 45kph (second gear) going up the Southern Outlet from Hobart with one horse aboard, whereas we easily got 60kph.

PS for every hill there is a decent, so what's the problem?? Speed it not everything especially when towing. Ever seen a rig get the swee-sways - not pretty.

I'm not wrong, its my opinion, I had a 3.9 with eaton M90 in my RR before the diseasel, it still sucked in comparison:p

[big guy]

I think you guys miss the point that it CAN tow that much with a piddly 3.9L.

If you intend to keep towing then you ned to change the cam profile for the specific job at hand, maybe check the condition of said engine as well.

As for Cunninghams gap it is bloody steep mate, My D2 was in second at one point with about 2 1/2 ton behind it & it would drag that weight at 130 easy as.

A D2 towing 2.5ton at 130km/h in 2nd?
How does that work.
Towing at that speed is crazy as it is and in 2nd up a hill not sure how the maths/physics works there?

Towing at speed is tricky, slowing at speed with extra 2.5ton is even more tricky.
For towing you just can't beat engine capacity and or diesel torque.

They are facts with current technology till we go nuclear and than from reading I have done, torque be linear and we just adjust amount we use.

Happy towing, I will stick to my principals of never overloading motor and leave some reserve in motor.
130 up a hill still scratching my head as to why would you?????????:o:o:o

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I think,,,
he means it would tow that weight easily on the flat--;)


2nd up cunninghams with over two ton is bloody good I reckon:cool:

[V8Ian]

I think,,,
he means it would tow that weight easily on the flat--;)


2nd up cunninghams with over two ton is bloody good I reckon:cool:
I would hope so, it would take a first class goose to attempt driving any vehicle up or down the Gap at that speed. In my opinion 130 kph is too fast to tow a trailer anywhere.

[Utemad]

The biggest problem with Cunningham's Gap is that it has some very tight turns on the way up that you have to slow down for in a Disco and towing. Once you've slowed for the corner you have stuff all chance of accelerating up the next super steep section whether you are towing or not.

The first trip away I went on with our 4wd club I remember being told that one of the Patrol drivers had to put it in low range to get up the last section with his van. I think it was a 2.8 TD but I don't know what sort of van he had.

When towing my camper with my Disco1 V8 I switch to petrol in the hilly bits and LPG on the flat bits. However given that it isn't very often in the grand scheme of things I have just run on petrol the whole time when towing on the last few trips.

Still the Disco V8 isn't a great towing machine but it does get the job done in the end.

[rovercare]

I would hope so, it would take a first class goose to attempt driving any vehicle up or down the Gap at that speed. In my opinion 130 kph is too fast to tow a trailer anywhere.

Towing can be fun:D

I've had to use my centre diff lock twice to live:eek:

First time I had an old Fordson tractor on a heavy ass car trailer, slasher, water filled tyres and all (the poor 4.4 used a tank of gas to do 60km's and wouldn't go over 50km/hr:angel:) so it was heavy, coming into an intersection in the floggin rain and locked the fronts with no hope of pulling up, had to pull in the diff lock to stop

The other time I had the old mans Kubota on my car trailer on the back of the 120", pulled up at a T intersection on a steep ass hill and started sliding back with the fronts locked, was a little scary....the hill was obviously steep although it was asphalt

Both times quick engagement of the centre diff lock saved my rectum:)

[V8Ian]

Towing can be fun:D

I've had to use my centre diff lock twice to live:eek:

First time I had an old Fordson tractor on a heavy ass car trailer, slasher, water filled tyres and all (the poor 4.4 used a tank of gas to do 60km's and wouldn't go over 50km/hr:angel:) so it was heavy, coming into an intersection in the floggin rain and locked the fronts with no hope of pulling up, had to pull in the diff lock to stop

The other time I had the old mans Kubota on my car trailer on the back of the 120", pulled up at a T intersection on a steep ass hill and started sliding back with the fronts locked, was a little scary....the hill was obviously steep although it was asphalt

Both times quick engagement of the centre diff lock saved my rectum:)
With about 7,000,000km under my belt I had a few seat pinching moments too.;)

[rovercare]

With about 7,000,000km under my belt I had a few seat pinching moments too.;)

Share?:p

[V8Ian]

Share?:p
And get myself locked up?;):nazilock:
There was one time a transport authority pulled me up and pinged me for not filling out my log book for a week. I was grossing 100 ton.......................with one trailer. He was happy with the easy mark, as was I.:angel:

[ozscott]

There is a post above of a bloke with a D2 4.0 5 speed manual having problems with the Dingo. I have towed a dingo and all the fittings on a dual axle trailer with mine and it towed very well...lighter of course than my 21 foot Seafarer Vagabond on its dual axle trailer. I can only assume that he had a problem there - bad MAF can cause poor power but otherwise virtually no symptoms to alert the owner. I regularly tow 2 tonn - long trips and never have a drama. I towed 2.5 tonn with a vehicle that was FULLY laden up Cunnigham's gap range with a MAF that was iffy and it was no dramas with 3rd most of the way up (on 31 inch tyres) and it easily kept up with an Issuzi rodeo turbo diesel with a much lighter load (17' ski boat) - that vehicle regularly serviced and a lot less ks than mine....the lack of throttle response in the above post for the dingo owner smacks of bad MAF too....oh...I was running it up the range on LPG - old fashioned mixer but lambda controlled converter idle and main tap.

Now, having said all of that, 4 litres isnt much when your talking 2 tonns plus, so for regular towing of that sort of load I would chose a few more cubes for sure. But, the 4 litre is still a nice tow vehicle particularly in manual form.

Having said all of that I am prepared to try a TD next time around as they have come so far, but whether it would be Mitsubishi or LR I really dont know...and I would really miss the smoothness, sound and power in the upper revs of my V8...

Cheers

[nsgnomad]

I have recently completed a similar trip to the one that prompted my original enquiry, towing the same caravan of nearly 2 tonnes. However this time with no other alterations to the vehicle than the timing advanced a few degrees, I found towing quite a bit better. This was due to a different approach to the hills.
Following the advice of many of you, I kicked down to a lower gear early to keep the revs up (and therefore the speed up too). Keeping the revs up to above 2700 and if necessary changing down to second manually, there were only a couple of instances that I dropped below 60 kph.
Just goes to show that your advice has been good and while the D1 V8 mightn't be the fastest of tow vehicles, it still gets the job done if you handle it right.

For the record for those who are interested, for a distance of some 6700km the average fuel consumption (LPG) while towing the van and a kayak on the roof of the D1, was 27.4 l/100km. (incidently the kayak actually improved consumption when I compared it with last years trip.):D

Roger