Roverdrive LT95 epicyclic O/D soon.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I have just had an email reply from the Roverdrive Corp about overdrives for the Series F/C and 1 Ton transfer boxes. In that email they suggested they are in the preproduction of a Roverdrive epicyclic overdrive for the LT95 box.

The Roverdrive for the series box is significantly stronger and quieter than either the Toro or Fairey overdrives so I would assume it will be for the LT95 as well. I guess it is a case of watch this space.

They also said that if we could find a group of 50 people they may even make overdrives for the 1 Ton or Series f/c boxes.

Diana

[PeterP]

Excuse my ignorance - is an epicyclic overdrive where the drive does not go through the O/D when it is not engaged?
Definitely a short coming of the Fairey unit.

Did they mention any ball park $$ should they go ahead with 50 units?

Peter

[Blknight.aus]

an epicyclic gearset is also known as a planetary gearset like the ones found in autos..

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/31741-grey-box-evil-aka-autotransmission.html#post457812

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Peter

As Dave says, the gearset that makes the Roverdrive work is epicyclic (planetary gears) not like the Fairey and Toro units that have a mainshaft and layshaft arrangement. In fact the Fairey overdrive for the Series LR, had parts that came out of a Rover P6 TC2000 car.

The epicyclic gears in the Roverdrive actually come out of auto transmissions that are designed to sit behind big US V8's so can deal with the weight issues of the Land Rover (Range Rover), they are also very much quieter.

The drive that you suggest as being epicyclic is actually called concentric drive I believe and is a function of all the overdrive units.

The LT95 Roverdrive is going ahead in any case, as they can be used in 101s and also Defenders with Isuzu 4BD1 so they see a market. The 50 units is only for the Series SIIB and SIIA Forward control and 1 Ton gearboxes.

Diana

[oliver1981]

I would definately be interested if it will fit the lt95. Any word on timing?

[PeterP]

Very interesting, these are the same as used in reduction gearboxes on electronic motor gearboxes, I have worked on several layers of these gears used in reduction gearbox but on a much smaller scale.

Lets get an approximate price.

Peter

[Lotz-A-Landies]

There should be some word on the LT95 Roverdrive by January along with pricing.

One is to be fitted to "Matilda" the 4BD1 Isuzu 110 (below) for promotional activities in the UK around April.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/1325.jpg

Matilda in Zimbabwe 2009

[iain reed]

sounds cool let me know i maybe interested
thanks

[Offender90]

Definately keen to know more. A quiet reliable overdrive is the only thing I'm missing on the 120. I suspect the decision to get one or not will come down to pricing.

Cheers

Bojan

[Lotz-A-Landies]

The Roverdrive has always been an expensive item when compared to the Fairey/Toro alternatives but I have always heard good things about them and personally never heard of one fail. That has to be worth a few extra dollars.

[incisor]

some series guys reported or suspected overheating problems if my memory serves me correctly...

i am definetly interested but fear the pricing ..

[isuzurover]

There should be some word on the LT95 Roverdrive by January along with pricing.

One is to be fitted to "Matilda" the 4BD1 Isuzu 110 (below) for promotional activities in the UK around April.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/1325.jpg

Matilda in Zimbabwe 2009

Wow - Matilda has changed a lot since I last saw it in the "flesh"
Used to look like this:
http://www.roverdrives.com/images/matilda_in_mountains.png

Matilda is an Australian built 4BD1 powered county which was procured by DaveS and shipped to canada, back when Dave was the Australian agent for RM products.

[101RRS]

Is the LT95 Fairy overdrive all that bad. I think a lot of the bad press related to the series Fairy overdrive has rubbed off unfairly on the LT95 version. While the basic function of how it works is the same, the LT95 does not have the lubrication problems that caused issues in the series version.

Garry

[PeterP]

The weak spot I have seen in the Fairey OD is the fine teeth on the cog that replaces the mainshaft transfer gear and fits inside the OD transfer gear. A friend that looks after his county very well had just taken off from the lights and the teeth gave way.
Mine when fitted in the OD gear and has a few thou play, not a worry. He had a new one and it had absolutely no play in my OD. He gave me upto 100K life left on mine so its not too bad.

If you look at a corresponding Toro gear in their overdrive it has a lot less teeth but they very chunky. Looks heap stronger.

Another thing that puzzles me is the instruction on fitting the Fairey OD it basically states try one shim or the other when fitting this gear to the mainshaft. If this was not shimmed as per EMER Q052, Page 37.20.28 para 8 the two thrust needle rollers and washers around first gear will not have the right end float. Any amount above the 2 thou max required would also allow the whole mainshaft too potentially float back and forwards that amount on the rear mainshaft bearing.

Peter

[muddy]

Hi Peter

what i suspect and please correct me if i am wrong that 2 thou could be to do with the shim in the main gear box output sharft(back of gearbox).If the sharft is allowed to move towards the front of the gearbox you are in allsorts of trouble (believe me) been there done that

This 2 thou gives a preload same as the normal gear for the dog gear

hope this makes sense

Maurice


Another thing that puzzles me is the instruction on fitting the Fairey OD it basically states try one shim or the other when fitting this gear to the mainshaft. If this was not shimmed as per EMER Q052, Page 37.20.28 para 8 the two thrust needle rollers and washers around first gear will not have the right end float. Any amount above the 2 thou max required would also allow the whole mainshaft too potentially float back and forwards that amount on the rear mainshaft bearing.

Peter

[PeterP]

Maurice,

Exactly what I was trying to say.

Where your ears burning????

Peter

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Is the LT95 Fairy overdrive all that bad. I think a lot of the bad press related to the series Fairy overdrive has rubbed off unfairly on the LT95 version. While the basic function of how it works is the same, the LT95 does not have the lubrication problems that caused issues in the series version.

GarryGarry

I had a Fairey O/D on my 2 door classic with standard 3.5 carby V8 and the OD only lasted until it was just out of warranty. It was so new that I didn't believe that it was the OD that failed and had the car flat towed 160KM for gearbox repairs.

It seems that the later Fairey O/D (like the one in Ron 101's) have an oil recycling device, something that mine didn't have.

[101RRS]

Diana - so I take it that not all LT95 Fairy's are the same - mine has the oil catchers cast into the casting so the oil goes in from the tfr case into the O/D (about a litre capacity) with the excess flowing back to the tfr.

In theory the O/D should always be full even if the tfr is getting low (at least while the tfr is throwing up oil).

Garry

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Diana - so I take it that not all LT95 Fairy's are the same - mine has the oil catchers cast into the casting so the oil goes in from the tfr case into the O/D (about a litre capacity) with the excess flowing back to the tfr.

In theory the O/D should always be full even if the tfr is getting low (at least while the tfr is throwing up oil).

GarryYes Garry

That is correct, the early LT95 ones, like the one on my 2 door in 1982 and I think the Series Faireys still don't have the oil recirculation. Not sure who designed the window and Archemedes screw type first however it has always been an aspect of the Rocky Mountain Roverdrive. It was also something a number of enthusiasts did mechanically with a funnel and tube retrofit.

[muddy]

hi Peter

Being down south and bushfire season ---I thought it was that:)

All the housings i have,have an over flow into the t/f box including the torro box

Maurice



Exactly what I was trying to say.

Where your ears burning????

Peter[/QUOTE]

[Lotz-A-Landies]

hi Peter

Being down south and bushfire season ---I thought it was that:)

All the housings i have,have an over flow into the t/f box including the torro box




Exactly what I was trying to say.

Where your ears burning????

PeterI hope you are not suggesting that all the Fairey Overdrives had the window and Archimedes screw device?

Because if you are and I can get this camera to talk to this dud computer I'll show you a pic of a Fairey O/D from a SIII without the window right now ( just went out to the shed and took a pic). If you can wait until the weekend I'll also show you a pic of one from a LT95 Fairey without the window and Archimedes screw.

[PeterP]

Have not worked out the certainties of oil flow in the OD as yet, (it could only by splash effect). I have seen some with holes in the inside the OD casing for oil flow but other than that it's sheer luck to guarantee proper lubrication. I will have to check out the TR overflow though.

Back on topic, lets wait for the specs. and realities of the "Roverdrive epicyclic overdrive for the LT95 box" and pricing. If it was not going to cost the first born I am interested. (Even then I would be negotiable):)

Peter

[muddy]

hi Diana

If you read my post and we are talking about lt95 boxes and the ONES in my possession (which i have several) they have this over flow system

[Lotz-A-Landies]

hi Diana

If you read my post and we are talking about lt95 boxes and the ONES in my possession (which i have several) they have this over flow systemHi Muddy

Yes I thought that is what you said and was just clarifying whether it was a statement of "that I have or have seen" Vs the statement "all overdrives for the LT95".

The later situation is simply wrong as I fitted a brand new Fairey O/D to my standard Range Rover 2 door back in 1982. The overdrive didn't last until 1983 but did last long enough to be out of warranty. I still have that O/D (although without a usable part as it has been left open exposed to the elements since 1983) and it does not have the window/screw oil recirculation device.

[muddy]

Hi Diana

A pic of the early o/d(lt95) would be interesting but more importantly to me is a pic of the dog gear
Is it possible to view this unit as in your area at present

Maurice

[101RRS]

and it does not have the window/screw oil recirculation device.

Please explain?? What is this window/screw oil recirculation device??

My O/d had a scoop cast into the housing on either side of the input shaft that drains the oil thrown up by the tfr case into the O/D threw holes at the end of the scoops. Excess oil just drains back into the tfr case.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Od.gif

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Sorry I don't have an actual image of the device however there is a window in the top of the casting where the oil splashes into.

Then there is a spiral groove cut into the outside of the output shaft. When the shaft rotates, the oil catches in the groove and is drawn unto the overdrive box.

Looks something like this.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/12/656.jpg

The Roverdrive system looks like this.

http://www.roverdrives.com/images/oil_system.JPG

[DeeJay]

I emailed the local Roverdrive distributor & got this very prompt reply..

Thanks Dave
Yes I am talking to roverdrive regarding the possibility of one for the four speed and we are looking at this very seriously but no price idea at the moment will keep you in formed.
Thanks
Ben

Looking promising !!

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I emailed the local Roverdrive distributor & got this very prompt reply..<snip>Just checking the basis of this contact.

You just contacted a local Roverdrive agent to confirm that my contact with the manufacturer in Canada (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/fcs-military-variations/93922-roverdrive-lt95-epicyclic-o-d-soon.html#post1130669) was in fact accurate. :confused:

[DeeJay]

Just checking the basis of this contact.

You just contacted a local Roverdrive agent to confirm that my contact with the manufacturer in Canada (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/fcs-military-variations/93922-roverdrive-lt95-epicyclic-o-d-soon.html#post1130669) was in fact accurate. :confused:

Yes, I wanted to hear it from the local distributor, having worked for various manufacturers I have encountered sensitivities regarding product availability, Personally my thoughts are manufacturers will speel to the public but are more cautious with thier distributors. I wouldn't expect a responsible manufacturer to backdoor a dealer either, so I don't expect to be able to deal direct.
Cheers,
David

[muddy]

I hope you are not suggesting that all the Fairey Overdrives had the window and Archimedes screw device?

Because if you are and I can get this camera to talk to this dud computer I'll show you a pic of a Fairey O/D from a SIII without the window right now ( just went out to the shed and took a pic). If you can wait until the weekend I'll also show you a pic of one from a LT95 Fairey without the window and Archimedes screw.

HI Diana

did you get the pic yet Also the dog gear

Back up in the sunshine state

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Sorry Muddy

I didn't take the camera to the farm and thought that bit of the thread ended with my being corrected for assuming without basis.

Will take the camera on the WE and may even take the laptop to do it down there.

Diana

[muddy]

Thanks Diana

very interested in this early version used on the lt95

[Lotz-A-Landies]

HI Diana

did you get the pic yet Also the dog gear

Back up in the sunshine state

As requested!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/12/69.jpg

Sorry for the delay, the unit has been in an open sided farm shed since the early 1980's hence the look of the output gear.

Diana

(Do you really need the dog gear? I don't think I still have that, it is fine splined.)

[muddy]

Hi Diana

Thanks for the pic it is the same as I have (fairy and torro shape) as garrycol (no 26 post )said it works on excess oil goes from O/D into T/C when filling and the reverse when running the gear will splash the oil onto the overflow gutters (cant think of a better name) and cause equalibrum in oil levels

The failures I have had are dog gear and input sharft on fairys and torro being wear of main gear syncros. Each one would have had at least 200k use ( regular level checks are necessary )

Did you work out what caused your failure?

Maurice

[123rover50]

All mine just have the gutters. Anyone got a photo of the one with window and screw?

Didiman

[101 Ron]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/1508.jpg

[Lotz-A-Landies]

All mine just have the gutters. Anyone got a photo of the one with window and screw?
DidimanAm assuming you are talking about the protrusions either side of the nose of the casing. Are they gutters or reinforcing webs? What ever they are I can not see how they are feeding oil to the O/D unit.

[clean32]

like his question ^^^^^

but all this is a bit past me, but then as theres a few pics of overdrive units i wonder if any are going begging?

[101RRS]

Am assuming you are talking about the protrusions either side of the nose of the casing. Are they gutters or reinforcing webs? What ever they are I can not see how they are feeding oil to the O/D unit.

The little wings (gutters) are slightly higher at the tfr case end and they are slightly curved in cross section so forming a scoop on either side of the input shaft. At the end of each scoop there is a hole in the housing a little under 1/2" in diameter that allows oil into the o/d and also allows oil to flow back out into the tfr case when the O/D sump is full.

So the O/d is full of oil and as the tfr case gears turn they splash oil some of which is captured by the scoops and feed into the O/D - the oil is constantly going in and out of the O/D. This process should still be working even if the tfr case oil gets low as long as there is splash. Even if the tfr case got too low in oil to splash, as the o/d has its own sump it should still work but the oil would slowly be exhausted to the tfr and ultimately both would fail - but in theory the tfr case should go before O/d - but reality may be different.

Because of this oil transfer process between the two - to top up the tfr case, you remove the tfr case filler plug and the O/D filler plug - you fill through the O/d filler and wait until the oil comes out the tfr case filler hole - both are then topped up. Because of the small holes at the end of the O/d gutters it takes some time for the oil to flow through - hence I believe the window in Ron's pic allows the oil to flow more quickly from the top of the O/d sump inot the tfr case.

Garry

[Lotz-A-Landies]

like his question ^^^^^

but all this is a bit past me, but then as theres a few pics of overdrive units i wonder if any are going begging?None are likely begging when current owners/users are coming over to grab even rusty old ones sometimes seen in pics on on-line forums!

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Have just had a discussion with Ray Wood from Roverdrive Gear Corp.

The LT95 overdrive unit production has been delayed while they design a new casting to mate with the LT95. Apparently they were not happy with the penetration and bearing support when they attempted to modify a LT230 overdrive casing for the LT95.

The expected release date has now been pushed back to September this year.

Diana

Addit: The initial production run will be 25 units. Most likely with linkages to suit the 110/County but the option for no-linkage kit at reduced cost which would probably suit 101 owners.

[DeeJay]

Anybody heard what progress is being made with this overdrive??

[wagoo]

I've been given 3 dead LT95 Fairey overdrives over the years, and they have all split the casings open due to the drivers forgetting to engage direct drive when using the lower gears in the main box.the gears were still good so maybe a tight fitting girdle around the case might help to keep them alive. The oil trough lube system from the transfercase is a huge improvment on the series models as far as gear and dog spline lubrication and longevity is concerned. The gears and dog splines although the same pattern and diameter as on the series overdrives are 6mm wider for greater strength and longer life.Overdrive ratio still should be engaged quite regularly to prevent the needle rollers on the dog gear from Brinnelling into the bearing surface of the mainshaft gear.
I've used the front of the dead overdrive gearcase, the dog gear, input shaft and output gear in modified form to make a couple of deep reduction (2.57:1)underdrives by adapting these components to Borg Warner Quadratrac planetary reduction units removed from early Jeep Wagoneers and CJ7s. I wonder if Roverdrive will offer an underdrive alternative for the LT230 and LT95s in addition to the overdrives?
Wagoo.
Edit, anyone have an exploded view of a Roverdrive for a series t/case? Not sure but I think the smaller mainshaft gear diameter of the all helical 1 ton t/case may present a design issue as it would if attempting to adapt the Fairey/Toro design to the same.

[djam1]

Response from Rover Drive this weekend

Hello Duane,

Nothing now but planned for later this year. I have an Isuzu/LT95 Australian Land Rover myself.

Ray

ROVERDRIVE GEAR CORPORATION

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I've been given 3 dead LT95 Fairey overdrives over the years,
<snip>
The oil trough lube system from the transfercase is a huge improvment on the series models as far as gear and dog spline lubrication and longevity is concerned. <:Only the later Fairey LT95 O/D had the recirculating lubrication system - I bought one in 1983 without the recirculation and it only lasted 6 months - 101 Ron has the dead remains:>
<snip>
I've used the front of the dead overdrive gearcase, the dog gear, input shaft and output gear in modified form to make a couple of deep reduction (2.57:1)underdrives by adapting these components to Borg Warner Quadratrac planetary reduction units removed from early Jeep Wagoneers and CJ7s. <:You are quite a talent! :BigThumb: :> I wonder if Roverdrive will offer an underdrive alternative for the LT230 and LT95s in addition to the overdrives? <:email them [email protected] and ask :>
Wagoo.
<snip>comments in red text.

[wagoo]

The three fairey units I have used all had the oil feed troughs, and the gubbins were all in good nick.
I've sent an email to Roverdrive. Meanwhile just idley speculating that they would have to fit a much larger planetary gearset for an underdrive. Because the Quadratrac reduction unit has to multiply torque as opposed to reducing torque as on an overdrive, it is physically huge in comparison to the Roverdrive unit.
Wagoo.