Overdrive-induced deafness. Cures??

[Johnno1969]

Hey folks,

After twelve years of Fairey/Superwinch overdrive ownership, I have finally had enough and want to make it quieter.....

It's in pretty good condition (only had it apart to strip and check it a few months ago) but it drowns out the noise of the lovely little 2.25 diesel in my IIA. The main gearbox is in good nick, so is the transfer. Everything is as quiet as a mouse (well a diesel-powered mouse) until I engage the overdrive and then "Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I have smothered my vehicle's transmission area with about three feet of soundproofing.......and still I can hear it. It's a bit like and Egdar Allen Poe story.

Anyway, to make a short story long, I am thinking of trying some sort of additive to the oil (Slick 50, Nulon, redline, banana skins, sawdust, clotted cream) and I am interested in people's thoughts. I hear and read such widely-differing views on additives. Basically, if there is anything out there that can coat the wearing surfaces, reduce friction and not cause other problems (she's a very reliable little car and I want her to stay that way) I'm all ears (though you may have to shout).

Cheers!

John

[HBWC]

WHAT WAS THAT????

have you thought about purchesing a set of ear muffs
not sure about diffrent oils but found overdrives are noisiy

[rangieman]

How about a pair of early 10 spline rangie diffs;)
Rangie ratio # 3.54
series ratio # 4.7
do the maths

[JDNSW]

I doubt whether you can get any additives that will help without damage to the overdrive. One thing you might look at is to ensure that no part of the operating linkage is touching the floor or transmission tunnel.

I have similar problems, and in my view the actual gearsets in the overdrive need to be replaced - they are not likely to fail, but are noisy due to tooth wear. Having priced replacements, I am putting up with the noise, although in general I do not use the overdrive except at around 100kph when the wind noise largely drowns it.

One idea I have thought about, but not tried would be a jacket tailored to fit round the actual overdrive with a layer of padding and a layer of sheet lead. I am not sure this would be very effective, as the noise will be transmitted fairly effectively to the transfer case housing, which is probably radiating a lot of the noise.

John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

How about a pair of early 10 spline rangie diffs;)
Rangie ratio # 3.54
series ratio # 4.7
do the mathsAnd remember with 3.54:1 diffs you move your current low ratio to only 75.32% of what it was (do the maths), so you are less capable off the road.

Hey folks,

After twelve years of Fairey/Superwinch overdrive ownership, I have finally had enough and want to make it quieter.....In addition to what JD says about linkages touching panels and a subject he mentioned "gear noise". It is important that the OD box runs full of oil.

If yours is one of the ones that doesn't have the window in the top of the output shaft housing with the Archimedes screw then you can do a modification to re-circulate the oil with the transfer box.

A a small funnel is placed with the open top about 1" from the top of the T/F case. The bottom of the funnel is connected through a hole in the back face of the T/F box to a pipe which connects to a fitting on the side of the OD at the same level as the filler. You may also want to seal the breather hole in the top of the OD and remove the oil seal between the inner and outer concentric shafts, (part 51 I seem to remember). Then what happens is that the oil splashing around the T/F case gets caught in the funnel, gravity and more oil forces the oil along the pipe into the O/D filling the box. The oil in the overfull O/D box, forces it's way around the inner input shaft, past the needle roller bearings and back into the T/F case.

The new circulation of oil, keeps the O/D box full, ensures everything gets lubricated and not running dry, the oil in the O/D is cooler because it spends less time in the O/D gearset, reducing both noise and gear wear (a major cause of noise). The later LT95 Fairey O/D have a similar circulation built in.

[Johnno1969]

Thanks for that,

All very interesting. I like the idea of recirculating oil....will look into it, but I never let the thing go dry anyway. It wouldn't reduce noise as things stand. Or would it? Nah...

I just wondered about the additives, as the idea of a friction-reducing coating is attractive. I am not entirely cold on that notion.

Not going the way of taller diffs. It might be faster and quieter...but I don't want to change from what I have down low.

I wouldn't actually know what the linkages are touching....they're buried in soundproofing.

I'm looking at earmuffs, stereos, you-name-it. But what I really want is to make the bloody thing quieter...

Cheers,

John

[Johnno1969]

Oh, and John in NSW makes a good point. The noise is definitely transmitted through the whole transmission. Comes from everywhere......

[Lotz-A-Landies]

<snip>

I'm looking at earmuffs, stereos, you-name-it. But what I really want is to make the bloody thing quieter...

Cheers,

JohnThe other way to reduce the noise, but a bit expensive is to change to a Roverdrive SX model. They are an epicyclic box so a lot quieter than the Fairey/Toro type

[akelly]

I tried everything with my old S3 (fairey OD) - nothing made a skerrick of difference. Slick 50, Nulon, different oils, blah, blah, blah. In the end if your OD is noisey then its noisey - its the wear on the machined surfaces that makes the noise. I have a toro in my S2A - its very quiet but jumps out of gear from time to time, I never get around to adjusting it! Bottom line is that at the speeds you can effectively use the OD (100kph plus) the landy is damn loud anyway - certainly too loud to enjoy for long, even the stereo wont really cut through.

Since the advent of the iPod I have decided never to bother installing a stereo in another series landy - I just use good quality noise cancelling in-ear headphones that are black so they dont stand out (I think its illegal to drive with headphones on?). Works a treat, I can hear the music/podcasts and I dont notice the noise!

Cheers,

Adam

[Johnno1969]

I tried everything with my old S3 (fairey OD) - nothing made a skerrick of difference. Slick 50, Nulon, different oils, blah, blah, blah. In the end if your OD is noisey then its noisey - its the wear on the machined surfaces that makes the noise. I have a toro in my S2A - its very quiet but jumps out of gear from time to time, I never get around to adjusting it! Bottom line is that at the speeds you can effectively use the OD (100kph plus) the landy is damn loud anyway - certainly too loud to enjoy for long, even the stereo wont really cut through.

Since the advent of the iPod I have decided never to bother installing a stereo in another series landy - I just use good quality noise cancelling in-ear headphones that are black so they dont stand out (I think its illegal to drive with headphones on?). Works a treat, I can hear the music/podcasts and I dont notice the noise!

Cheers,

Adam



Yeah, more good points. I do tend to use the overdrive at lower speeds than everybody seems to be mentioning (100km/h?? What's that? haven't done that in the IIA for years...), usually engaging it from anything over 70km/h (and I rarely push the old girl past 80km/h anyway). Still, it was worth picking brains more knowledgabe than my own. I have always had my eye out for a Toro overdrive, but have never seen one.

I found a broken boogie-board next to a rubbish bin on the beach the other day. I might cut it up and jam it between the front seats...should be good for another eight inches of insulation.....

......and put in Slick 50

....and get an ipod

.....keep on thinking of how to beat the curse of Fairey.

Cheers,

John

[JDNSW]

Yeah, more good points. I do tend to use the overdrive at lower speeds than everybody seems to be mentioning (100km/h?? What's that? haven't done that in the IIA for years...), usually engaging it from anything over 70km/h (and I rarely push the old girl past 80km/h anyway). Still, it was worth picking brains more knowledgabe than my own. I have always had my eye out for a Toro overdrive, but have never seen one.

I found a broken boogie-board next to a rubbish bin on the beach the other day. I might cut it up and jam it between the front seats...should be good for another eight inches of insulation.....

......and put in Slick 50

....and get an ipod

.....keep on thinking of how to beat the curse of Fairey.

Cheers,

John

As well as insulation, you need to make sure there are no air leaks in the seat box or floor or bulkhead, as these will let through a lot of noise. I found that 25mm wide, 1.5mm thick, self-adhesive neoprene foam from Clark Rubber, used as a seal along all the joins stops the noise getting through (and the panels rattling together) but is a lot easier to disassemble than any sort of sealant. Other points to look at are the holes where the fuel fillers and vent hoses come through the panel behind the seatbox. These should all be sealed.

John

[Johnno1969]

As well as insulation, you need to make sure there are no air leaks in the seat box or floor or bulkhead, as these will let through a lot of noise. I found that 25mm wide, 1.5mm thick, self-adhesive neoprene foam from Clark Rubber, used as a seal along all the joins stops the noise getting through (and the panels rattling together) but is a lot easier to disassemble than any sort of sealant. Other points to look at are the holes where the fuel fillers and vent hoses come through the panel behind the seatbox. These should all be sealed.

John


Thanks John. Yeah, I am working on that..... It might also stop all that hot air which is so nice at this time of year......

John

[Sleepy]

Yes I know this noise. My fairey has quite a metallic howl when engaged. All seems in good order, so I live with it. I tend to agree that pushing a Series 3 diesel is always going to be a noisey affair. I tend to stick to 80kmh max - slow but quieter.
I have ear plugs too. :D

[wally]

Sell it and buy a Corolla.

[Johnno1969]

Sell it and buy a Corolla.


Cwabface.

[wally]

Cwabface.

Fatty.

[The ho har's]

Well after all this I am not sure wether to put the Fairey OD in my series 3:confused:


I haven't driven her out on the road yet just around the paddock and was already thinking of having my Ipod and 1 earphone in while driving...though the defender is pretty noisy with the front flaps open and window down:D
so should be used to it;)



Mrs ho har:angel:

[incisor]

be brave.... makes them much better on the highway...

[Johnno1969]

Well after all this I am not sure wether to put the Fairey OD in my series 3:confused:


I haven't driven her out on the road yet just around the paddock and was already thinking of having my Ipod and 1 earphone in while driving...though the defender is pretty noisy with the front flaps open and window down:D
so should be used to it;)



Mrs ho har:angel:

Nah, go on and get one! Just look at all the fun I've been having complaining about it to people. Also, I've created employment in the soundproofing industry, as well as recycling old bits of rubber, foam, builder's blanket and surfboards - thus doing my bit to halt global warming.

Really, when you stop to think about it, putting and overdrive in your Series Landy just may help to save the planet. I'll leave the decision to your conscience......

[praxis]

Theres a Toro on ebay at the moment - should fetch a bit though. Dave

[Johnno1969]

Fatty.


Mr Stupidy Head.

[Johnno1969]

Theres a Toro on ebay at the moment - should fetch a bit though. Dave

Thanks Dave. I will have a look. Though I am a little afraid of e-bay....

John

[SeriesKid]

Hey Johnno,
I've got a 2a running series 3 running gear (2.25 petrol), and the wonderful Fariey OD. Much the same as you, i am growing quite tired of the WEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
I have the plesure of having a ute cab, wagon roof and soft-top for it, so I can choose my level of OD loudness (ranging from normal to loud). I am quite happy to not muck around with it as hey, it works! But I believe that when the time comes that I get completely fed up with the whine of the straight-cut OD gear noise, I am going to go to a custom gear manufacturer (such as Albins in Victoria, maker of brilliant racing gearboxes, and capable of doing damn near ANYTHING with a gearbox) and having them make me up some helical or double helical gears for the Overdrive (and perhaps transfer case if required). Expensive yes I know, but it will stop the noise at the source.

Lachy

[akelly]

Hi Lachy,

Most of the noise comes from the gears not meshing well because they are pretty agricultural - your idea would probably solve the noise issue but I think the cost would be more than a high speed T'case and a fully restored series landrover to fit it into!

Cheers,

Adam

[djam1]

We tried to fix this back in the 80s using the latest synthetic oils etc.
At that point the oils made no difference the splines on the input will eventually fail and your world will be much quieter.
I have never seen a Fairey in even near new condition be quite.

[Veryan]

A friend of mine wrapped his is fairly thick lead sheeting...seemed to kill some of the noise.

[Johnno1969]

Hey Johnno,
I've got a 2a running series 3 running gear (2.25 petrol), and the wonderful Fariey OD. Much the same as you, i am growing quite tired of the WEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
I have the plesure of having a ute cab, wagon roof and soft-top for it, so I can choose my level of OD loudness (ranging from normal to loud). I am quite happy to not muck around with it as hey, it works! But I believe that when the time comes that I get completely fed up with the whine of the straight-cut OD gear noise, I am going to go to a custom gear manufacturer (such as Albins in Victoria, maker of brilliant racing gearboxes, and capable of doing damn near ANYTHING with a gearbox) and having them make me up some helical or double helical gears for the Overdrive (and perhaps transfer case if required). Expensive yes I know, but it will stop the noise at the source.

Lachy

Hey Lachy,

Yeah, that'd be good. I know what you mean. Expensive, but just imagine all the silence that money could buy! Like you, I put up with mine becaise it works and has been doing so for twelve years.

Cheers,

John

[Johnno1969]

A friend of mine wrapped his is fairly thick lead sheeting...seemed to kill some of the noise.


I've thought about lead before, actually. Might look into that.

Thanks,

John

[Johnno1969]

We tried to fix this back in the 80s using the latest synthetic oils etc.
At that point the oils made no difference the splines on the input will eventually fail and your world will be much quieter.
I have never seen a Fairey in even near new condition be quite.


Yep, I got mine brand new from the UK, and I can't ever remember it being quiet. I think it got a bit noisier after I once ran it rather low on oil (oops), but it's never been quiet. I've recently replaced the input. The old splined were nearly cactus after a handful of years of running. I have always carried the original input gear, nut, washer etc for the transfer just in case. Now I have a spare overdrive input too...

Cheers,

John

[PAT303]

I have had both O/D's and both were noisey PITA things to have,I sold them and fitted RRC diff centers and off road I didn't notice they were any worse but on road they were miles ahead,quiet and smooth and I would never have an O/D again ever.If you do need lower Low range gearing fit rover P6 saloon centers,they are 3.9 ratio. Pat

[Johnno1969]

I have had both O/D's and both were noisey PITA things to have,I sold them and fitted RRC diff centers and off road I didn't notice they were any worse but on road they were miles ahead,quiet and smooth and I would never have an O/D again ever.If you do need lower Low range gearing fit rover P6 saloon centers,they are 3.9 ratio. Pat


Thanks, Pat. Forgive my ignorance of Rangies, but what was the diff ratio? 3.54?

[isuzurover]

Offender90 on here is an acoustic engineer. He has posted info on soundproofing and materials a few times. I am sure he would be happy to point you in the right direction.

He has some info on barium loaded vinyl materials and other stuff which is much better than anything you can get at clark rubber.

[Johnno1969]

Hey I have been thinking, when one reads of additives like Slick 50 or Redline or Wynns "damaging" a gearbox, what does this actually mean? My understanding with Slick 50 is that it bonds to the wearing surfaces and reduces friction, so I don't really understand what sort of damage can result....

I know it's a bit of a futile hope with regards to noise reduction, as so many have been down that path before, but I would still be tempted to try an additive, except that I'd hate to ruin the overdrive.

John

[wally]

I reckon you should just harden up.

[Johnno1969]

I reckon you should just harden up.


Skinny little farmer.

[Bunjeel]

I'm relieved. I thought it was just mine that howled. I tried the Teflon additive and it quietened it a bit but not much. My final solution was to fit a headphone socket to the stereo.
Cheers -

71 SWB Series IIA

[akelly]

Instead of Slick50 or any of the other additives, get a witch-doctor to cast a "silencing spell" on your overdrive - it's cheaper and the effect is the same (and the science behind the process just as sound).

[ellard]

Hi there

I have only had two series Land Rovers which had overdrives fitted....

THE ONLY WAY TO TO STOP THE NOISE - is to remove them, and poeple pay big money for them (And I dont know why).

Sorry to be blunt - but they noise they make is terrible, worse in a hard top.


My views

Wayne