Considering a D4 2.7L

[XLR8]

Hi

I have been considering picking up a 2.7L D4. I would naturally just go to a 3.0L if funds allowed however I am really stretching the budget going to a D4 as it is (think your standard Prado or Pajero buyer).
Anyhow, I did take a 2.7L D4 for a test drive recently to see if it had adequate performance for me to spend the extra $$. I was OK with the performance on the move but I found the turbo lag... not good at all. In fact I found it potentially dangerous if you're trying to cross a busy road or similar. Now I have driven a TD4 FL2, Wrangler TD Auto, BT50 TD Manual, Hilux TD Manual and various petrol turbos manual and autos but have never experienced such lag as in the D4 2.7L.
Surely either I'm not the first to note this or it had something to do with the particular car?
That said, all other aspects of the car are first class!!!
Any experiences with the D4 TD would be appreciated! :)

[Jamo]

There are ways around the lag;)but..

The car has a 'learning' gearbox. If it's been driven sedately, then it thinks that's what you want to do so, even if you put your foot straight down, it won;t deliver power straight away.

If you want lots of power, you need to do a couple of quick burst of acceleration first. Then the gearbox gets the idea you want power and gives it to you.

Another way is to select 'Sand' as that map gives you the most power.

Another way is to remove the butterfly and crimp off the egr pipes. Not that I know anything about that, I'm just saying that I might have heard it somewhere that's all.

[CaverD3]

You could just get a re-map.
They do improve as they wear in as well.

[ozscott]

I like learning vehicles. What I dont like is total domination of control...there is no reason why the vehicle's drivetrain computer cannot respond to a complete mashing of the throttle - ie to the boards with a $5 detent switch at the extreme of pedal travel - with 100% power using the most advance possible. It defies belief that, if not set up that way, that they are not set up that way. Clearly anyone who mashes the throttle to the boards is asking for all that the vehicle has on that occasion.

Cheers

[rmp]

Some comments; I've driven lots of turbodiesels and they all have a lag to a greater or lesser degree relative to a petrol, turbo/SC or otherwise, especially the heavier ones like the D3. The 2.7 is no better or worse than others, and people coming to TD cars often complain about the lag. The solution is to read the road conditions so you don't get caught out and need instant acceleration. Once the turbo kicks in modern TDs do get out of the way in a hurry which is something. In fact, some of the lag is simply the interia of accelerating the mass that is the D3.

However, every given vehicle has particular situations where the lag is good or bad, and if your driving style doesn't mesh the situation can seem worse that it would be for other drivers, and you may have been in particular situations where the lag is worse than others. Also, part of a lag is also sometimes a reluctance to change gears, again this is somewhat style dependent. Many vehicles can be improved, as can the D3, by using Sport mode.

None of the TR modes give you any extra power, they just change the sensitivity of the throttle and gear shift points. Use Sport Mode instead.

[DiscoSaffa]

.......... Use Sport Mode instead.

Mine is a V6 petrol, so no issues with lag, where I do have a problem is the reluctance of the gear box to change down in a hurry. A typical situation is at a traffic circle on a slight incline (something I encounter every day on the way home). The gearbox (despite it’s learning abilities) approaches and changes down to 2nd gear. If I need to move off quickly, the change down from 2nd gear to 1st feels surprisingly like turbo lag, followed by a thump as 1st gear engages and then I am off like a rocket. The simple solution, as rmp says, is around town I tend to drive around in sports mode for no other reason than, more often than not, the gearbox will select 1st at a standstill so there is no unanticipated change down and associated hesitation at take off.

Also with any vehicle the lump of organic material behind the wheel, commonly referred to as the driver, needs to learn to drive it and adapt his or her driving style to the vehicle. The D3 while trying it’s darndest to be a city runabout is still an SUV and near enough 3 tons of SUV. It will take longer to accelerate and stop, it will not hurtle around corners at high speed, it is a 4x4 for pities sake!

The problem with the D3 (and now D4) is people expect them to behave like a small car, so where we would accept turbo lag in another Diesel SUV or Ute, we expect the D3/4 to be so good that we judge it harshly (especially drivers new to the brand).

Just my 2 cents worth…….

[Jamo]

None of the TR modes give you any extra power, they just change the sensitivity of the throttle and gear shift points. Use Sport Mode instead.

They each have diferrent progammes for throttle mapping. In my 2005 TDV6, 'sand' gave better acceleration than 'normal' in sport mode. Maybe it's diferrent in later cars.

[rmp]

No, it's the same all the way through. Just a question of where the power comes in not the total amount. GGS mode is especially slow for example. Anyone driving in GGS mode around busy roundabouts will be scared ;-)

[XLR8]

Thanks for the responses! I've been Googling the issue this morning and it seems it is standard fare mainly due to the weight. I only wish I had taken more note of what setting/s the car was on. Now I'm sure the Terrain Response was on Normal however, how many more settings could I have had (other than Terrain Response settings)? Sport? ?
When I drive an $80K+ car I just expect near perfection (call me demanding), that's all. :)

[Jamo]

Sport Mode is selected by moving the gear level to the left. It is not part of the Terrain Response system.

Remember that The D3 is a large 4WD wagon and has been designed with that in mind. It is not a sports car!

Everything in life has an opportunity cost. A cayenne turbo S will blow a D3 to the weeds, but the D3 will leave it well behind once you leave the tarmac. Horses for courses.

As Richard Hammond said "If you want a perfect car, buy a Rolls Royce" or words to that effect. Unfortunately, these days $80,000 won't buy perfection!

[gghaggis]

Sport around town will give you a better pick-up, and in many instances, slightly better fuel economy (just remember to switch back to normal on open highways so that it can select 6th gear).

As others have said, the lag issue gets a little better with a few 1000 km on the clock (at least my 2009 D3 did). You can additionally hold the car on the brakes and rev to 1500 for those 'have to get in front' moments - it'll rocket off then ;)

The 2.7 can be remapped, but different remaps affect the lag to varying degrees. I've tried 3 or 4, and the best I've driven so far was one from BAS (UK).

Cheers,

Gordon

[DiscoSaffa]

When I drive an $80K+ car I just expect near perfection (call me demanding), that's all. :)

I reckon the D3 is pretty close to perfection when you bear in mind what it is...... the D4 has to be better....... goes back to my original point..... we judge the current discos harshly (especially if coming from another brand) because we expect so much from them........ In reality they are miles ahead of any of the competition....... so much more for the money.......

[Desert Traveller]

Jamo,
I see you are moving up again, Subbie to D3 to Cayenne. Where to after the Cayenne?
DT

[Jamo]

Hello DT! I haven't got a long term plan. Maybe to another Cayenne or back to a D4(5?). Possibly an RR (I considered one this time) but IIRC there's a plan to move them upscale into Bentley territory.

I loved the D3 and will see how I go with the Porsche. From now there's only RR or Cayenne unless something new enters the mix.

Before the Suby there was the XY Falcon.

[norto]

I drove a SE in sand mode on the highway a few months ago
and it was quicker than mine when it was remapped.

[XLR8]

I drove a SE in sand mode on the highway a few months ago
and it was quicker than mine when it was remapped.

I assume we are talking about the 3.0 TTDV6 model.

[norto]

D3 2.7 TDV6

[DI5CO]

Easy solution, drive a D1 or 2 for a week, then get into the D4. You wont complain. Or better still, we can swap my D2 for your 4!!:D

[Leo]

I would stick with the 2.7 and get it mapped or chipped. I've heard of many cases of the new 3.0 going into limp mode or reduced engine performance mode repeatedly. On D4s, RRS and the Jag XF. I wish LR made the new petrol V8 cheaper.

Hopefully they find the reason and bring out a fix.

[XLR8]

I would stick with the 2.7 and get it mapped or chipped. I've heard of many cases of the new 3.0 going into limp mode or reduced engine performance mode repeatedly. On D4s, RRS and the Jag XF. I wish LR made the new petrol V8 cheaper.

Hopefully they find the reason and bring out a fix.

My only concern with chipping is warranty. We all know the costs if the warranty doesn't cover the "failure". :(

[Leo]

Not too familiar with it, but how would they know?

[gghaggis]

Not too familiar with it, but how would they know?

Well, driving it 'round the block for one ......... ;)

[XLR8]

Not too familiar with it, but how would they know?

One way is some cars have a flash counter which will allow the dealer to see how many times it has been flashed/updated/changed. Not sure if Land Rover's have this, I know the current Ford Falcon range does.