Origin of TD5 engine.

[crl]

Where did the TD5 originate from, Land Rover or BMW? The general consensus seems to be BMW but there are a few people that swear it is a Land Rover engine.

[fraser130]

Where did the TD5 originate from, Land Rover or BMW? The general consensus seems to be BMW but there are a few people that swear it is a Land Rover engine.

Clicky here (http://www.landroverclub.net/Club/HTML/Td5engine.htm)

[dmdigital]

It was a LR development (Project Storm) that only went to market about the time of BMW's take over of the company. The 2003 RR TD6 was a BMW motor from the X5.

Land Rover engines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_engines#Td5_.28Engine_Codes_15P_and_16P .29)

[sniegy]

I was under the impression that it is a Land Rover Built engine & funded by BMW, as at the time LR was owned by BMW.
The story was that BMW already had a 4 & 6 cylinder engines, so funds were drawn up to build a 5 cylinder that apparantly was already in the pipeline.
I am not to sure on the correctness of the story. But have heard this many times:wasntme::eek:

[BMKal]

From Internet Land Rover Club (http://www.landroverclub.net)

The Td5 Diesel engine
"Storm"

This is a completely new engine. It's codename is Storm but the vehicles are labeled "Td5".

No, it's not an BMW engine, but an Rover design and, as it was almost finished when BMW took over, they agreed to continue work to fit it in Landrovers. It's an 5-cylinder engine, 2498 cc displacement, designed for 4x4 use. It has 300 Nm(manual box)/232 lb-ft of torque at 1950 rpm and 136bhp at 4200 rpm.

[scarry]

Definitely LR designed & built,most design work was done before BMW came along.

[Slunnie]

Yep, LR were developing a range of motors at the time with parts commonality in mind. TD4 for the Freelander, TD5 for the Disco and the TD6 for the Rangie. The Disco was a TD5 because thats all that would fit under the bonnet.

BMW pulled the pin on the TD4 and TD6 but kept the TD5 going, presumably because they didn't have a engine to fill that spot.

As said, it is a pure Land Rover motor, and to add to this there was no ECU available that would drive the TD5, so LR did all of that in house aswell.

[stig0000]

a 3L td5,, that would b nice,,, how about a 4.2 td5-6,, that would be wicked,
i reacon if the td5 did make it to td6 it would of been one helll of a engine,,

[Blknight.aus]

some block design elements are borrowed from the tdi which borrowed them from the 2.25.

most of the work was done prior to BMW turning up on the scene BMW did contribute technical knowledge to the project primarily in the injector and ECU side of business.

[101RRS]

The TD5 was developed from the L series Freelander engine - basically the L series with an extra cylinder - a lot of the internals are similar but the head design and injection systems are updated. The L series is a first generation electronic diesel (pump controlled but not injectors) and was replaced with the common rail TD4. The L series and TD5 are Rover designed engines (L series used in a range of cars) and have nothing to do with BMW.

Garry

[Slunnie]

As I understood it, the common aspect I think were bore/stroke with the 200/300tdi and the head bolting method from the L series, but thats about it.

[clean32]

The TD5 was developed from the L series Freelander engine - basically the L series with an extra cylinder - a lot of the internals are similar but the head design and injection systems are updated. The L series is a first generation electronic diesel (pump controlled but not injectors) and was replaced with the common rail TD4. The L series and TD5 are Rover designed engines (L series used in a range of cars) and have nothing to do with BMW.

Garry

almost, a 2ltr 4 2.5ltr 5 and a 3lter 6 cylinder using basically the same components, smart really with only the major parts being different, crank, cam, Head and manifolds.

As already posted originally the injectors were to be cam operated with an electronically ( Lucas) controlled fuel pump. Quite smart really, still a mechanically controlled common rail injection system with a fuel pump more inline with what we see ( or NZ sees) with the Jap 300 TDI. Then along came BMW, junks all that and replaces it with common rail, hence why the injector harness is run inside the rocker cover and the internal placement of the injectors.

[rick130]

almost, a 2ltr 4 2.5ltr 5 and a 3lter 6 cylinder using basically the same components, smart really with only the major parts being different, crank, cam, Head and manifolds.

As already posted originally the injectors were to be cam operated with an electronically ( Lucas) controlled fuel pump. Quite smart really, still a mechanically controlled common rail injection system with a fuel pump more inline with what we see ( or NZ sees) with the Jap 300 TDI. Then along came BMW, junks all that and replaces it with common rail, hence why the injector harness is run inside the rocker cover and the internal placement of the injectors.

But it's not common rail, as BMW/Bosch use, (a simplified system) it's a unit injector setup.

I believe the story went they (Rover) borrowed or pinched people from either Detroit Diesel (the DD60 Series was the first electronically controlled unit injector setup in the late eighties) or CAT for the unit injector setup.

[crl]

Thank you all for your input. I'm glad to hear that it really is a Land Rover engine after all these years of doubt!

crl

[Slunnie]

I think the unit injectors allow much much higher injectin pressures (around 23,000-27,000psi on the TD5???) and those little units are probably also largely responsible for the increased power outputs from diesel engines, especially in comparison to common rail etc.

I think the TD5 was the first non truck (or heavy) motor to use this technology. Mind you peizo may be the go these days.

[clean32]

But it's not common rail, as BMW/Bosch use, (a simplified system) it's a unit injector setup..


We may be talking the same but with different words.

Each injector would have been activated by a lobe on the cam and not as it is now by an electrical pulse.

The high pressure fuel pump would have been electrically controlled as to pressure in the common rail or fuel line to all the injectors. The only controlling required would have been overall pressure as the pulse dwell time was fixed by the cam


.[/QUOTE]

[BigJon]

The TD5 fuel pump supplies high pressure fuel to the injectors. The extremely high injection pressures are generated inside the actual injector by the inbuilt pressure pump (cam activated). The injector is opened / operated by electronic injector pulse (ECU generated).

[clean32]

The TD5 fuel pump supplies high pressure fuel to the injectors. The extremely high injection pressures are generated inside the actual injector by the inbuilt pressure pump (cam activated). The injector is opened / operated by electronic injector pulse (ECU generated).


AHHHH ok got it now, thanks

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Along the same lines but nothing to do with the TD5.

Did you know that Rover were prototyping a 5 cylinder petrol engine way back in the 1960's?

The intent was to repower the P6 car (TC2000 4 cylinder) with 2.5 litre 5 cylinder. The engine under development was similar to the Land Rover 2.283 and Rover 80 car engine but with an added cylinder. There was also a 6 cyl variant under development.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/12/475.jpg

however the option to use the ex-Buick 3.5 litre V8 came along (thanks to Land Rover of North America) and the rest is history.

see: The Rover 5 Cylinder story (http://www.rover-v8.nl/dutchroverarchives/5cylinder.html)