tyre woes, what'll I try next?

[davedisco]

HI,

I've had my DII since new (Dec '03). I had BFG's fitted at purchase and cut one up about ten days later, another died after 35,000K. When they got to about 65,000K I changed to Cooper STs. (all in standard size, 235/70 by 16). I was dissappointed to find they were NOT LT in that size, you might say the tyre place conned me a bit.

About 6 months ago I've had a couple of the Coopers spiked on a gravel road and had to be tilt trayed back home. Now I've got another one that's developed a bulge (delaminating?).

We're planning to travel for a month or so and will be towing the Camper trailer. I generally think the ST's weren't up to the load, wearing the outside edges at recommended pressures (incidentally only 35lb max). I also have 2" spring lift, so considering going a size or two bigger.

I've priced BFG 245/70 ($315) and Yokahama ($270ea. for a set of 5). I was offerred Bridgestone D694s for $232ea for a set, but I'm not impressed with the tread pattern. Also priced Toyo 245/75 ($313), and ST's in the same size are $317. All above LT construction. So really the price is not much different.

Would the 245/75's need a diff or transfer case ratio change, especially considering that I'm towing the trailer, which is fairly heavy? (I'll have to weigh it one day :) ).

I'm inclinded to try the Toyo's...

Other things on my mind:
Ease of replacement in 'semi-remote' places, the two tyres at once was between Grafton and Dorigo and cost $400 for the tow, and even priciing them now I've had to look around, with most saying they'll get them in the next day or two (Grafton, Maclean/Yamba, Coffs).

I've still got 2 ST's on VG condition and one about 2/3 worn, moving them to the trailer would require new wheels (and hubs if they are to be LR pattern).

FYI I'll attach a photo of the current problem.

Dave

[big guy]

I have until recently not had much time with coopers and must say now that I have them I hear both horror and good stories, bit like what I hear from other makes.

Some on hear love them some just hate them.
Take your pick. My mates run them and speak highly of them also.
I would take them to a coopers dealer and show them the issue.

Perhaps get or go for a part refund.
Get a quote for 4 new Coopers in 245/75 but make sure in LT.
Keep the others as spares on roof etc. They look to be more like 60% worn and on big trip they will not be much chop. IMHO.
I like to get new tyres at that point and perhaps sell old ones or put on trailer.

Have you tried the ATR's from cooper, very quiet and capable, in LT form.

Pirelli Scorpion have a good reputation at the moment but are not available everywhere and some places I heard are not able to get them at all.

BFG, I had on my last truck and were good but noisy.

Hope that helps.

[ashhhhh]

I have heard very bad things about Coopers lately, from people in the know.

My local shop (which I trust) actively refused to sell me the Coopers they had in their shop as they didnt want to deal with the paperwork when they ****ed up.

Ive run BFG's a few times over the years and never had a problem, I bought BFG AT again this time.
IMO the K's you got out of your BFG's is very good, if I get that amount of travel from a tyre im cheering. ;)

[PhilipA]

I just bought a set of LT 245.70x16 D694s for my RRC. I replaced a 10 year old set of BFG 245.75x16 .

My early impressions are that they are fantastic. VERY quiet, nice turn in, very smooth ride. They also have 13MM deep tread.

At $232 IMHO they are very attractive. At first I thought the tread pattern was a bit mild but after a good look they are IMHO about as aggressive as the BFGs, particularly in the shoulder area.

I too think the centre area looks unusual but it you look several of the newer designs have the elongated block. I think this is for noise reduction. AND I am pretty sure a lot of research has done on the compromise.

In any case if you are on dirt roads towing etc you do not need anything more aggressive. I just did the Kimberley, Tanami, GRR etc on a set of BFG Long Trails not LT with no blowouts.

I Know that many people me included use the "look" of the tyre as a factor in buying, but it is really a pretty bogus measure, when you consider the millions the tyre companies invest in testing.
Regards Philip A

[BigJon]

I Know that many people me included use the "look" of the tyre as a factor in buying, but it is really a pretty bogus measure, when you consider the millions the tyre companies invest in testing.
Regards Philip A

I am running Pirelli Scorpion ATR in 245/70 16 and I am as impressed with them as you are with the D694s.

They don't look as aggressive as some others (including BFG AT) but they have been excellent thus far for my use.

I don't like the look of the Coopers and they regularly fail, so maybe there is something in it!

[Slunnie]

I've got the Pirelli ATR's and so far they have been excellent, but for touring I have been running the Goodyear MTR and they have been absolutely outstanding! I would have no hesitation in buying them again. These tyres are probably 6 years old as a guess, still going and have never given problems (well, except for spinning on the rim when being silly with them at low pressure). The MTR has an open pattern for traction, a carcass that has been benchmark for a long time now and silica compound rubber for improved traction and improved wear. Its also very smooth for an open tyre. Its only comparable tyre is the Cooper ST but it is significantly better than the ST. The new MTR with Kevlar is now really a mud tyre, the old pattern is a high traction AT.

[VladTepes]

I love my BFG MT's but have heard a lot of ngative comemnts ion the AT's of late.
Woudln't touch Coopers (unles it's beer).

Mickey Thompson ATZ - 5 rib (for AT type) or 4-rib for more off-road orientation.
Have a look and see if they offer sizes you want.
I think the 5 tib will.

Mickey Thompson - World's Toughest Traction Tyres! (http://www.mickeythompsontires.com.au/tyres.htm)

[350RRC]

Hi,

I have the old Bridgestone 604V Duelers on my 74 RRC. Done about 70,000 k's. Rears are only about 25% worn, fronts about 50%. That's what happens with slotted rotors at only one end.

The pattern is out of date, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy something similar like the 693 ones.

cheers, DL

[PAT303]

I am running Pirelli Scorpion ATR in 245/70 16 and I am as impressed with them as you are with the D694s.

They don't look as aggressive as some others (including BFG AT) but they have been excellent thus far for my use.

I don't like the look of the Coopers and they regularly fail, so maybe there is something in it!

Second that,I never had trouble with mine. Pat

[omvanders]

I Know that many people me included use the "look" of the tyre as a factor in buying, but it is really a pretty bogus measure, when you consider the millions the tyre companies invest in testing.
Regards Philip A

I'm thinking the same now. I recently bought a set of BFG AT's for the spare set of steel rims, put them on and took the car for a herb over to the West Coast of SA... dune work, rocky tracks, etc.

I noticed that in the soft sand they didn't seem to perform noticeably better than my 'city tyres' - Michelin XPC's on alloy rims. As far as appearances go the BFG's appear more aggressive but I suspect the XPC's (and the updated version of these that are now available) are just as capable for most offroad work when compared to the BFG's.

Don't get me wrong. I love the BFG's so far - very quiet, and bag out well on the soft stuff, handle well on the tar - but I'm just singing the praises of the Michelin brand, even though they might not look that aggressive with their tread pattern.

[big guy]

Michelin XPC's must be the worlds best all rounders ever made bar none!!!

I did not know they have a replacement now.

That will be my next tyre, I had the best service out of the XPC's I had on 4 or 5 of my Landies.

[davedisco]

Thanks Big Guy. The damaged one has about 50,000K, the two on the front are much newer.

I didn't specifically look for them but no-one locally talked about the Pirelli. I found plenty of support for them in the forums.

[davedisco]

Thanks everyone.

So far I'm thinking I gave the old BFG's away a bit too quickly, so leaning towards them. Any thoughts on staying at 235/70 or going 245/70 or 245/75?

If I stay 235/70 I'd probably buy 4 BFGs and keep the 2 good Coopers as spares.

:confused:

[scarry]

I just got another set of BFG's AT,after doing 80k on the old set,two cape trips,desert trips,etc,etc,never had a puncture.They were 245/70 16.I rotated them every 10k,40PSI on road &30 to 32 on dirt.18 in sand.

Had to get 235 as 245 were out of stock.Don't notice any difference,except the speedo is now exact compared to my GPS.

Had Michelin Xpc OEM on previous Disco,but i believe they are not made anymore.They were a great tyre on road & in sand,but not strong enough for ,say,eg a cape trip.I punctured a few with rocks through the tread.They lasted around 85k,but got very noisey at the end of their life.The tread blocks seem to slap onto the road which causes the noise.

My BFG's got noisey once they were worn out,but not as noisey as a set of worn out XPC's.

A mate of mine has bridgestones on his Pootrol,but he is not happy with them.My brother loves the Coopers he has on his D1,but many people say they do not suit the D2.
Pirelli are the only others i would try if you don't want BFG's.

The price you were quoted on the BFG's is similar to what i payed.

[LandyAndy]

Im with Slunnie.
I have MTRs on my D2. 235/85x16.
Good hard wearing tyre.They are NOT a mud terrain as many people think.As Slunnie said,an all-terrain on the more aggresive side.
Andrew

[omvanders]

Any thoughts on staying at 235/70 or going 245/70 or 245/75?

Having just gone through this exercise myself, I was told to go the 235/70's as they're a more common size in remote places. I went with the advice, and as with you it meant my existing spares could remain useful.

[cewilson]

Im with Slunnie.
I have MTRs on my D2. 235/85x16.
Good hard wearing tyre.They are NOT a mud terrain as many people think.As Slunnie said,an all-terrain on the more aggresive side.
Andrew


I have to agree. The Goodyear MTR's are brilliant - but then so is the BFG KM2 MT's which seem to last the better part of 60k quite easily. Tyres have come a long way in the last couple of years - esp with the above two examples.

And 235/85 R16 is quite an easy size to get hold of as well.

[spudboy]

Do a search here for an AT tyre review on about 10 different brands/models(?). I have always had Michelins, but after reading the review and perusing a lot of threads here, I went for the Pirelli ATRs. Extremely happy with them. As a bonus, they are unbelieveably QUIET.

I'll see if I can dig up the post with the review.

David

[spudboy]

Here's the link: http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/89427-good-tyre-review-australian-14-brands.html

Scroll to post #14 to get the best link to the original article.

HTH
David

[davedisco]

Spudboy,

thanks for the link. I knew in the back of the mind there'd been a magazine test.. just didn't think to look for it. Now I see why the Pirelli get some good support. I just wonder if the type of vehicle would make much difference to the test outcomes?

From that I think I rate things as:
Pirelli on top, LT Coopers (so not 235/70) and some interest in the Michelin and Kumho.

I'll see who supplies Pirelli, and if they're not too hard to come by look closer at them.
Dave

[davedisco]

Followup.

Seems the Pirelli is available ex stock in Coffs. They quoted the ATR, saying they replaced the AT (that was used in the comparison).

All you Pirelli fans, any feedback on AT vs ATR?
Dave

[WhiteD3]

I am running Pirelli Scorpion ATR in 245/70 16 and I am as impressed with them as you are with the D694s.

They don't look as aggressive as some others (including BFG AT) but they have been excellent thus far for my use.

I don't like the look of the Coopers and they regularly fail, so maybe there is something in it!

I've had the 255/60 18 Scorpion ATRs on for 10,000km and am very happy with them. Quiet on the road, good in the wet. Had them on sand, gravel, etc, all good. Next to useless in wet clay/mud but life's a compromise.

[spudboy]

All you Pirelli fans, any feedback on AT vs ATR?
Dave

Get the ATRs. They are the latest and greatest.... ATs are the older/original pattern.

[Tank]

For A/T's I would go Pirelli Scorpions and for M/T I would go NanKang Mudstars or even Pirelli Scorpion M/T, Regards Frank.

[cookiesa]

I've had the 255/60 18 Scorpion ATRs on for 10,000km and am very happy with them. Quiet on the road, good in the wet. Had them on sand, gravel, etc, all good. Next to useless in wet clay/mud but life's a compromise.

this mirrors my inlaws experience with the Scorpions. We had a Jackaroo with BFG AT and the Disco with Cooper ST's and he really struggled for traction with his jackaroo on the scorpions on clay.

[VladTepes]

Keep in mind Coooers are a major advertiser in 4WD Monthly.

[AKW]

I've been running BFG 225/75 at/s for about 10 years on my d1
a bit over 80000 km out of the 1st 2 sets about 55000 on the 3rd set now
never used the spare on the back door.
Will not use anything else, Might go a bit bigger.

Andrew

[McDisco]

I dont think you will need to change your ratios if you went up to 245/75. They are not much of an increase that you would really notice, especially if you run an auto. You might want a transmission cooler for towing though as the auto would be working higher to turn the tyres.

Angus