D4 high-beam alignment

[Graeme]

Can the high beam be aligned seperately from the bi-xenons? I've just discovered that the RH is especially out of alignment and is way up and to the right yet the bi-xenons are where they should be.

I replaced the original globes with the +50s from my D2 before trying the lights so it could be the globes except they were fine in the D2. I've just reseated the RH globe but its still the same. I suppose I'll have to refit the originals to prove the point but it seems there might be a problem with the assembly.

[amaruskanic]

Graeme,
Check you havent accidently installed it upside down. I did this on my D2 with those bulbs once....

[Graeme]

Thanks - my 1st thought but the bulbs have been checked as fitted properly.

At least one of them shakes its bi-xenon on low beam over bumps so more investigating is req'd.

[sniegy]

What have you done:eek::wasntme:......

[Jesse B]

Graeme,

If it's any consolation to you, the one time I drove a short distance at night in my D4 the high beam alignment seemed all over the shop too. Good for possum spotting, I thought - but it was only a brief drive and not fully dark yet, so hard to really tell. Will be going for a proper trundle one night soon, so will check it out then - but am now suspicious it might be the same issue as yours. My globes are standard, still. Will report in a day or two.

Otherwise am loving the bus - 3000 km up in 2 weeks, almost all on highways at this point, but have a smile a mile wide at this point. :D

Jesse

[stig0000]

the hids are adjusted my computer,, so they will allways be allinged, but the highs for summ resion you cant adjusts sepret, there is a agjusting screw there but it moves the hole lot around,,

[Graeme]

Good for possum spotting
My thoughts exactly last night when driving through overhanging trees - both sides light-up high in the trees. I'll point it a wall tonight to properly identify the souce. I'm glad I fitted my old HID-converted driving lights.

[Graeme]

Otherwise am loving the bus - 3000 km up in 2 weeks, almost all on highways at this point, but have a smile a mile wide at this point. :D

Apart from the 500 km drive home, I did my first real drive yeaterday (900 km) and am still unhappy with the ride on rough roads. Maybe my expectations are unrealistically high but I'm sure my brief D3 drive was much better. No permagrin for me yet but hopefully it will come soon.

[Graeme]

What have you done:eek::wasntme:......
Nothing either of us did, I suspect.

[Graeme]

After having a proper look with the vehicle in a shed, its obvious that the bi-xenon aim (shielded & unshielded) is substantially lower than that of the high beam. No such problem with the D2a lights.

The RH aim was a little higher than the LH so that's now corrected. I've twisted the prongs of the RH halogen globe to point the globe upwards a little which has lowered the beam although still not low enough. Lowering the bi-xenon would make both its low and high beam too low and as its high beam is better than the halogen's, having the halogen's beam too high is the lesser of 2 evils. Maybe if I get to install an HID kit to replace the halogens I will be able to adjust the bulb's fitment to get a better aim.

The bi-xenons shaking over bumps is a combination of stiff suspension and mounts that are not rigid enough, as thumping the outer bottom corner of a headlight assembly produces the shake.

Overall, I'm not impressed with the headlight arrangement.

[Jesse B]

Graeme,

Thanks for the extra information - armed with this I shall see what my local dealer has to say, as I have to call by to talk to them this week anyway. If they have anything useful to contribute I'll pass it on. It does seem that at least your vehicle and mine are set up the same (dodgy) way in this matter, as what you've described mirrors what I saw. I wonder about other D4's?

Re the ride on rough surfaces - so far have only done a few k's on corrugated gravel, and things seemed pretty smooth to me. But I've never driven a D3, so have nothing to compare with in this area. Am heading out into the goldfields on a 2000 k work trip in two weeks, so will have plenty of rough & rocky stuff to trundle across - we shall see if the grin remains after that lot!

Jesse

[CaverD3]

Reviews have said the D4 is stiffer than the D3 and not as smooth on dirt roads.
You could try adjustable rods and make them slightly longer (lower pressure in the air bags) may make a difference.

Have you spoken to the dealer about the lights?

[Graeme]

At least 1 motoring journo at the Scottish release thought the suspension upgrade was a backward step except when driving at high speed, which got me thinking about the possibility of retrofitting D3 shocks & sway bars if the ride was bad enough. For the moment I'll add my extra weights and see how it goes with a few kms under its belt. My 80AH AGM now sits in front of the main battery and I await the release of a suitable bbar, to which I will mount my winch if it improves the ride.

Lower pressures in the bags would reduce the bump stop clearance so no joy there either, although it wont be the air springs causing the stiffer suspension if they're the same as the D3's.

I will in time contact the dealership formally to get a complaint to LR. However I don't envisage LR would be redesigning the lights and providing replacements so I wouldn't hold my breath for a fix, unless LR can fiddle the bi-xenon mount to line-up with the halogen. I'm not about to dismantle the assembly myself but if the bi-xenon unit is self-contained then its aim might not be fixed.

[Jesse B]

Just a quick update on my situation re high beam: went out last night to do some checking, and found that my set up is exactly as Graeme has described. Halogens on both sides are high and wide, but bi-xenons are pretty much spot-on. Driving through a cutting with high banks the halogens were doing their best work about 5 metres up the bank at a 45 degree angle in front of the vehicle!

Have contacted the local dealer, and they've asked me to bring the D4 in on Thursday. We shall see what they can do - tho given what's been said thus far in this thread I am doubtful of any positive changes. Will post the outcomes here on Thurs night.

[CaverD3]

As the front end has been chaned and the D4 has new lights. The halogens are part of the light cluster and if they are not pointing in the right direction there must be design fault. The whole unit will need to be adjusted to get the halogen pointing in the right direction. Maybe the fixings can be bent to suit?

[CaverD3]

Does this help: for D3 though?

http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/11468/Headlamp%20Adjustment.pdf

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Light pattern of adaptive headlights (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic43972.html)

[Graeme]

CaverD3,
There's no difficulty in adjusting the lights based on the dipped beam of the bi-xenons, but with them correctly set (as delivered) the halogens are way too high. However from your 2nd link above it seems that at least 1 D3 has the same problem, with the dipped beam having to be set too low to get the halogens lower yet really still too high. If 1 D3 has the discrepancy, I'd expect all with bi-xenons to be the same. How's the alignment of your D3's lights?

My D2a's dual headlight unit does not suffer from this discrepancy, with good aim for both the low and high beams.

[CaverD3]

I would be asking if you can adjust the shutter in the Zenons on their own.

[Graeme]

Its not just the shutter because when on high beam the bi-xenon is way below the halogen. However, from looking inside the back cover and into the front of the bi-xenon, the bi-xenon appears to be mounted in its own assembly and that assembly mounted on the adjustable section. If this is the setup then perhaps the bi-xenon assembly hasn't been fitted properly, or at least can be re-aligned using appropriate spacers. A task for LR, not me, lest I break something.

[CaverD3]

:BigThumb: Yup, their problem. :D

[Jesse B]

Okay - so took the Disco into the local dealer today as requested, and gave the technician (funny how they're not mechanics any more!) the full rundown on the issue. Not surprisingly, he rang back an hour later saying "well, according to our test machinery the lights are set up perfectly..."

To his credit he was happy to acknowledge that this meant little in real terms. He did however confirm that to the best of his knowledge there is no way of adjusting the halogens separately to the bi-xenons. He has sent what he calls a technical bulletin to LR Australia asking about this, and I should know the result of that process tomorrow. Will post again once I've heard something.

Thanks for all your info, Caver - appreciate the effort to help out. Graeme - maybe we need to see if we can flush out more owners with this issue, and get lots of tech bulletins going in to LRA. I wouldn't bet on it making a huge difference, but it might just prompt something positive.

[Graeme]

I can't just drop into my dealership as its 5-6 hrs away but I have asked my contact if he/they can check-out another D4 that has the standard bi-xenons. I'll post what feedback I get.

[DiscoSaffa]

Halogens on both sides are high and wide, but bi-xenons are pretty much spot-on. Driving through a cutting with high banks the halogens were doing their best work about 5 metres up the bank at a 45 degree angle in front of the vehicle!

Perfect excuse for a front bar and some spots....... :D

[Jesse B]

Perfect excuse for a front bar and some spots....... :D

Exactly! Have already ordered ARB bar, though it seems this might still be months away due to all the compliance process they have to go through. And the Lightforce's are sitting in a box, awaiting something to be mounted on. Till then at least I know I won't hit too many possums - roos I'm not so confident about!:)

[Graeme]

I've made temporary L brackets that bolt to existing brackets behind the grill and poke out through the grill for my old HID-converted Narva 4x4 lights. They look a bit odd not mounted to a bar and with their old battered plastic protectors, but at least I can watch the roos as they jump out rather than just watch possums.

[Jesse B]

I've made temporary L brackets that bolt to existing brackets

Sounds like a job for next week, when I may have a little more time. Question: did you do your own wiring? Local auto electrician? I had a brief yak with service dude at dealer re this, and there was all kinds of muttering about "complicated wiring system... got to get it right... warranty issues if not to LR specs..." - and of course mention of large sums of money to have it done by them. Suspect this is a garden path I don't need to wander up?

[CaverD3]

LR method required money to the dealer to enable. Taking a switch wire off the halogens to the relays would be simpler and cheaper.

[Graeme]

Taking a switch wire off the halogens to the relays would be simpler and cheaper.
Same here - just transferred my D2 setup to the D4. I installed a press button switch in the left side of the lower steering column cover where there's an outline just right for a switch position.

As an aside, I was having trouble finding good places to mount the HID ballasts, so just glued them under the front of the top panel behind the grill using construction adhesive.

[Jesse B]

Just a quick follow up on this matter: LR Australia responded to my dealer's inquiry about the halogens and their adjustment, saying: "sorry, lighting as-is is an attribute of the car. And no, halogens cannot be adjusted independently of bi-xenons". Seems there are a few in the UK raising similar concerns - for those who haven't already spotted it (forgive the rather poor pun!), see:

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Side Lights & OR fairly lights (http://disco3.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=579029#579029)

[CaverD3]

LR Australia responded to my dealer's inquiry about the halogens and their adjustment, saying: "sorry, lighting as-is is an attribute of the car. And no, halogens cannot be adjusted independently of bi-xenons".

That is a disgusting reply from LR Austalia. LR need to find a solution.

If the Halogen lights are not pointing in their right direction (ie to light the road at a distance) then they have a design fault. Claim that the halogen lights are not fit for purpose if they cannot be adjusted. The halogens (and the whole light cluster need to be in the right position first before others are adjusted. If they are not then the vehicle is not suitable when supplied.

Cover the zenons and put on hight beam. Place can a good distance from a light coloured wall. Take photo and send to LR demanding a solution.

PS post it so we can see.

[gps-au]

If the Halogen lights are not pointing in their right direction (ie to light the road at a distance) then they have a design fault. Claim that the halogen lights are not fit for purpose if they cannot be adjusted. The halogens (and the whole light cluster need to be in the right position first before others are adjusted. If they are not then the vehicle is not suitable when supplied.

Makes you wonder if the lighting on the vehicle meets ADR's ?

Anyone willing to put their D4 over the pits at a motor registry ? :angel:

[Graeme]

The lights aren't out by just a little, as when my vehicle is 3 mtrs from a wall, the halogen pattern is about 150 mm above the bi-xenon beam yet the halogen light is about 50 mm below the bi-xenon light. So in 3 mtrs the beam is already 200 mm higher, making it nearly 7 mtrs at 100 mtrs away - possum spotting for sure!

[Graeme]

Makes you wonder if the lighting on the vehicle meets ADR's ?

Anyone willing to put their D4 over the pits at a motor registry ? :angel:
I just rang the NSW RTA techincal section and whilst there is a regulation requiring high beam to illuminate the road for at least 75 metres, IMO the bi-xenons achieve this. Hence not unroadworthy in NSW.

[Jesse B]

So in 3 mtrs the beam is already 200 mm higher, making it nearly 7 mtrs at 100 mtrs away - possum spotting for sure!

That is pretty close to what I saw when I put mine up against the wall. I was parked about 30-40 metres away, and I've have guessed it to be +/- 3 metres high. Will try to go out tonight and get a pic of the beam on the same wall - if successful will post here tomorrow.

[CaverD3]

So legally the halogens are just driving lights. Is there any regulation about fitting driving lights other than thay need to go off with the high beam?

I would still say they are not fit for the purpose.

[Graeme]

I would expect a proper reaction from LR once LR UK investigate (look into?) the discrepancy.

[Jesse B]

Okay - so, I went back to the wall last night and took a couple of pics, in the hope of illustrating what I'm seeing. Firstly, some important measurements: I was parked 18 metres away from the wall; the wall itself was 24 metres wide (and the full width is shown in these two pictures), and the door you will see toward the right hand edge is a standard door height (around 2 metres). Lastly, where I was parked was about 200 mm below the bottom edge of the wall, so add this to the height you're seeing to get "real" height.

Before I go on - this is the first time I've uploaded images, so forgive me if they're dodgy. They were both well over 3 mb when uploaded, so should be clear enough. For those inexperienced in these things (like me) just click on the thumbnails to open a larger image in a new window.

Here's pic #1, with full high beam - both bi-xenons and halogens. You can clearly see the two different beams.

21671

And here's pic #2, with both bi-xenons well covered.

21672

I'll leave it to others to interpret what this shows, but I will note that the bottom edge of the halogen beam appeared to strike this wall about 1.4 metres up, making it some 1.6 metres above ground level at the car. And the halogen beam spread the full width of the 24 metre wall - all of this from a range of 18 metres. This would mean that at 50 metres this beam would be about 4.4 metres above ground, and some 66 metres wide... Hmm - now, let's see - at 100 metres... Sheesh. Enough said.

[CaverD3]

Halogens are definately higher.

They should be about the same in high beam.

Anyone with a D3 have somwhere they can do the same?

[Graeme]

My light pattern is consistent with your's Jesse B. Surely LR cannot ignore such a beam alignment discrepancy.

[Beamin]

I have exactly the same problem and the pics show the same beam pattern as mine. It's comical to see the rooftops and possum branches lit up so well, with darkness each side of the road at ground level. It might be better to pull the halogen bulbs out and go without, to avoid the distraction. LR should be embarrassed. I too have tried all the adjustments I can find, with the same zero result. The dealer says they haven't heard of this problem, so I'm glad I have now found that I'm not alone and this appears to be a design problem. I was about to try replacing the bulbs to check whether wrong ones had been fitted, but that looks to be a waste of time. I'll refer the dealer to this thread and get them to take it up with LR.

[Graeme]

As of a couple of days ago, my dealer still had not heard back from LR about this mis-engineering. Hopefully they now recognise the fault and have referred to LR UK rather than dismiss it.

I really appreciated my hastily-mounted driving lights on a 600 km evening drive earlier this week. I switched them off for a moment to show my wife just how useless and distracting the halogens were, shining up in the trees with no side visibility at ground level, and no bull-bar yet either.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Are there any ADR changes in the lights for Australia compared to elsewhere?

[Graeme]

Not that I've uncovered.

[Jesse B]

As of a couple of days ago, my dealer still had not heard back from LR about this mis-engineering. Hopefully they now recognise the fault and have referred to LR UK rather than dismiss it.

I really appreciated my hastily-mounted driving lights on a 600 km evening drive earlier this week. I switched them off for a moment to show my wife just how useless and distracting the halogens were, shining up in the trees with no side visibility at ground level, and no bull-bar yet either.

Ditto - my dealer also says "nothing yet" from LR. I'm due in for a service in a few weeks, so will be putting on more pressure at that point. I am still holding off on installing the spotlights - but with ARB now indicating a late-March delivery of bull-bars it's getting tempting. Really is the most bizarre light pattern I've ever seen.

[Graeme]

1 week ago ARB Canberra advised that the bar is still at the design stage and being held-up due to lack of access to a vehicle. June is now the anticipated availability date. Canberra have my order for one painted in my vehicle's colour.

[ADMIRAL]

1 week ago ARB Canberra advised that the bar is still at the design stage and being held-up due to lack of access to a vehicle. June is now the anticipated availability date. Canberra have my order for one painted in my vehicle's colour.

They can have mine for a week,( seriously ) but they will have to come over here for it. Anything to speed the process !

[Graeme]

I had the vehicle at the dealer's yesterday for an early change of most of the oils, which didn't happen but that's not the dealer's fault as LR still haven't supplied 3.0 engine or TC oil.

But what did happen was some bright-spark techo adjusted the headlamps because I had complained about the high beam alignment. With only the lights shining on a wall and without following LR's adjustment procedure using the correct equipment, he adjusted them down to make the halogens shine where he thought they should. They now light-up the tree trunks, the bi-xenon high beam is now a bright spot just in front of the vehicle and the low beam cuts-off less than 10 metres in front of the bumper. Low beam now lights-up less than 5 metres of road over the bonnet!

Driving 4 hours after dark at 100-110 kph with only 5 metres of road visible due to oncoming traffic is not recommended but I had another 400 kms to go. I was able to take backroads for the last hour so that high beam and my HID driving lights could be used. I did get to see that the halogen high beams would be quite useful if the assemblies had been correctly made.

Apart from demonstrating the ineptitude of the techo and my nervous drive home, it was a good demonstration that there is a real problem with these headlight assemblies.

[brad72]

Well, I took delivery yesterday of my D4 TD2.7 with halogen head lamps and found that the rhs high beam light is pointing too far to the left. After removing the dust boot on the headlamp revealing the high beam bulb I noticed that the metal bulb retainer is mounted on 4 pegs protruding from the reflector. The spring steel bulb retainer has 4 speed nuts puched out of it to secure it to the 4 pegs of the reflector. If the holder is not pressed onto the reflector pegs correctly, then the beam will be out of adjustment. Being speed nuts they can be easily moved to a differnt postion, albeit very carefully. My dealer is pretty good and I know they were able to fix my brother's RRS headlight alignment so I'll have a talk to the mechanincs and see what they say tomorrow before fidling (bad habit of mine being an engineer)

[ADMIRAL]

Keep us posted on the dealer's action or your 'fiddling ". There are quite a few of us with 'possum hunting' headlights looking for a fix.

[Graeme]

I investigated mine's bulb holders and their attachments to the reflectors on more than 1 occasion and found nothing loose or improperly fitted. I also tried alternate globes. Both headlights are affected and the pattern is very good, just way too high which suggests the bi-xenon assembly is the culprit as it's pattern doesn't use the reflector.

I ponder the possibility that during the headlight assembly perhaps slightly-different D3 bi-xenon assemblies were fitted, either thinking they were the same or just got the parts mixed-up.

[Jesse B]

I noticed sniegy's comments in the midst of his (totally understandable) rant about his new ride, to the following effect:

LR have replied to me late last week about yours & a few others.
We will wait until the Quality Assurance program is done & check then.
Otherwise it is 2 new lights.

Yay - maybe there is light at the end of this loony tunnel, if you'll pardon the rather limp pun! Hopefully we'll get our QA program soon - the poms have had theirs a month or more already. And hopefully it will fix a bunch of these niggling issues - including the danged possum-spotters (even if that is ultimately via the "2 new lights").

[Graeme]

I didn't doubt that the lights would be fixed or replaced once it became known that the lights on some vehicles were OK.

[brad72]

Well I was forced to pull the headlamp assembly off tonight as i blew my high beam bulb off while fiddling. Anyway the high and low beam do move together via the 2 adjustment screws as the whole assembly is 1 piece cast alloy, but I have halogens.

Am i to assume the low beam xenons are self leveling? If that is the case then shouldn't the light assembly be adjusted so the high beam is at the correct level and then adjust the auto leveling low beams up to a suitable level as to not blind oncoming traffic whilst still giving good throw down the road. Just a thought

[Graeme]

The standard bi-xenon lights are not self-levelling.

[brad72]

There goes that idea then. LR will need to find a solution then. Valeo is the manufacturer of the headlight and they make lights for all a lot of European cars. I have checked there service bulletins on there website but can find nothing on headlamp adjustment.

[CaverD3]

As I see it the only way to adjust the halogens is to adjust the whole headlight unit. This would need to be done first.
Cover the bi-xenons and adust the position of each unit.
Then re-adjust the xenons.

The vehicle should have been delivered correctly set in the first place. So dealer should fix.

[sniegy]

I Pre-delivered Graeme's & my own vehicle. On the tester the lights seemed ok, but it is when you actually use them that they are out.
My left light is further out than my right unit.
To adjust the lights you need to plug them into SDD & adjust via computer.
Something i found out when in Sydney.
Another something to do when i get back to work.

p.s. The Q093 will be released very soon if not starting to be done now. you will be notified in the mail.

[brad72]

p.s. The Q093 will be released very soon if not starting to be done now. you will be notified in the mail.

any idea what this will entail and will it be specific to all D4's?

Thanks
brad

[sniegy]

Brad,
I havent been to work much in the last 2 weeks as i have been a little crook.
But before i left the Q093 was in progress to be released by end of month.
I hear that there is a lot to do with the electronics of the vehicle & a LOT of downloads.
One of the guys has posted the UK version of the recall but i cant fnd it at present.
There are a few things added as some are Aus specific.

Sorry i dont have all the specific's.

But yes all D4's will be involved.
As per all recalls some will be engine specific, & some will be VIN specific.
The recall will advise what is to be done to each vehicle depending on what type yours is.

Cheers

[Graeme]

As I see it the only way to adjust the halogens is to adjust the whole headlight unit. This would need to be done first.
Cover the bi-xenons and adust the position of each unit.
Then re-adjust the xenons.
There is no seperate external adjustment for the bi-xenons and the halogens, and no visible internal adjustment that I can see for the bi-xenons with the headlight assembly sitting on a bench with the globe access covers removed. The bi-xenon dipped beam is used to adjust the assembly for beam height and left/right and both the bi-xenon high beam the halogen high beam are then expected to be correct.

My low-beam was originally well-aligned, so no pre-delivery error.

[Beamin]

I have been pursuing this issue with the dealer for 3 months or more, since I first turned on high beam and wondered why my lights were pointing up into the treetops instead of somewhere useful.

The dealer has done his best to adjust the alignment to give a compromise between a useable low beam and high beam where it should be, but unfortunately the result is a low beam that is too short to be safe above 60km/h and a high beam that has the halogens lighting up the lower branches rather than the treetops, but still starting about 2m above the ground. I'll have to adjust them back up to restore a safe low beam, which will point the halogens back up into the treetops again.

He did take this up with the LR technical people and also with LR Customer Care, which I confirmed today by phone with the Customer Care people. They told me two things that I found pretty interesting and a bit surprising:

1. The issue has been raised with LR UK, who responded that this is "a characteristic of the vehicle";
2. I am "the only person who has ever contacted LR Customer Care about this issue"

Consequently, it seems important that everyone who has these wonky headlights and is unhappy with them needs to call LR Customer Care and let them know there is a problem that needs to be fixed. Their phone number is 1800 625 642. They are unfailingly polite and friendly, so don't be shy about giving them a call. They actually thanked me for bringing this to their attention.

As for the LR UK response that this is a characteristic of the vehicle, I find that a bit disappointing. Both the response and the characteristic. I haven't noticed them promoting this particular characteristic in their advertising and I've yet to see them make any attempt at all to explain the advantages and benefits that flow to owners from this novel feature.

Perhaps enough complaints to the Customer Care people might turn this into a "squeaky wheel" that gets some attention and prompts LR to find a fix for a "characteristic" that no-one wants. One can only hope, but a few phone calls wouldn't hurt.

[CaverD3]

I would say it is a fault in the design of the headlight unit.
That is a fault not a characteristic headlight unit is unsuitable for its purpose.
If enough folks complain LR may redesign the units.

[Graeme]

The fault occurs only with some vehicles.

I don't understand why my dealer needs to see my lights again to take further action as the fault was blatently obvious at the 1st visit and LR should just approve their replacement. I'll get back when I can take a break from work and hopefully get it resolved, but will contact LR Customer Care in the meantime.

Adjusting the low beam down only makes for dangerous driving and the lights illegally adjusted. My halogens are back up in the tree-tops where they are counter-productive but the low beam is where it should be. Maybe the halogen globes should be removed temporarily so as not to be distracting.

[CaverD3]

Manufacturing fault rather than design fault?

[Beamin]

I'm interested in Graeme's comment about this fault only being on some vehicles. Is there any pattern? Is it a model-specific problem limited to the SE, does it affect some SE's and not others, or does it occur across different models?

It seems unlikely that LR could make such a blunder with the design, but it also seems unlikely to end up with such an accurately reproduced and consistent problem from a manufacturing fault.

Graeme's comment that it only occurs with some vehicles suggests that there may have been a bad batch of lights, not picked up by quality control tests. This would be an encouraging result if it could be proved, as it means that the fix is simply a couple of replacement units from an unaffected batch.

The difficulty is that my dealer compared the headlight beam pattern on the other vehicles in stock and found they were all the same as mine. This was only a small sample size (I can't imagine they had access to more than 3 or 4 vehicles in total and this may have included different models/specs) but the photos I provided to show the problem were forwarded to LR UK, who responded to confirm that this is how the high beam is on all Discovery 4's and is a characteristic of the vehicle.

This response from LR UK doesn't seem to fit with the "bad batch" theory, or that it only occurs on some vehicles and not others.

Does anyone have photos of the low and high beam patterns of a vehicle that is not affected by the fault? Any chance of putting some up on this thread to compare, or send them to me? I'd like to be able to show LR some photos to compare this "characteristic of the vehicle" with examples of D4's that have a better version of this characteristic.

[Beamin]

Jesse B managed to upload some photos in an earlier post in this thread (about post #37 I think??) so I'll give it a go too. I've never tried this before so here goes...

25303
The first image shows full high beam (xenon + halogen beams) on a roadway. The xenon beam is correctly aimed but the halogen high beam points up into the trees instead of lighting the area at ground level each side of the zenon high beam. There is actually an 8' high steel fence on the right but the halogen beam misses it completely and just lights up the trees above it.

Then follows a series of comparison photos that were all taken from the same spot in a shopping centre carpark, 40m from the wall. The first shows low beam, which is properly aimed.
25305

25307
The 2nd in the series shows the same location with normal high beam (xenon + halogen). The xenon high beam is the bright white spot in the middle from road level up to the one-way sign on the wall. The halogen high beam is the slightly pink/orange beam from about the one-way sign up to the top of the Coles/Target/KMart signs along the top of the wall. You can see the black areas on each side below the halogen beam, which is where the halogen beam should be shining instead of lighting up the roof area.

The 3rd in the series shows some detail of the black area to one side on normal high beam.
25308

25309
The last in the series shows the same area of detail from the beam pattern thrown by the halogen high-beam alone, with the main xenon headlights turned off and using just the headlight flasher to turn on the halogen beams. You can see that this beam pattern is essentially useless and is the cause of the black areas on each side at ground level.

To give a proper perspective of what this beam pattern actually looks like at a distance of 80m or 100m while driving, I'm going to have to find a much higher wall. Any suggestions?

[Graeme]

Manufacturing fault rather than design fault?
I believe so. On Disco3.co.uk some people with D4s with apparently good lights thought that I and others were complaining about nothing until someone posted a pic of the bad lights. But to date no-one has yet posted a pic of good lights, perhaps because those people don't have an issue to persue and thus don't have any interest in helping others get their faulty lights replaced. The fault exists in both adaptive and non-adaptive versions of the lights.

[Jesse B]

Just been talking to LR Assist, who are going to "look into the matter" - supposed to be ringing back tomorrow, so I'll post whatever their response is. They need to talk to my dealer, and to their technical folk - I wonder if I'll get the same old "characteristic of the vehicle" nonsense? Fairly obvious that the poms don't have great furry brown things leaping out in front of them at night... Perhaps if they did they might see this as something other than a bloody characteristic!

[CaverD3]

You should be making that point about safety to LR.

[Bushwanderer]

Hi Beamin,
I appreciate your efforts to elucidate ;) this problem, but I think that using high beam at 40m is not optimal.

IIRC, one needs to switch to low beam when oncoming vehicles are 100m away (I'm happy to be corrected on this figure). Therefore, the main function of high beam is for distances greater than this. On your first image, you can see a dark region between the xenons and halogens, but again, only when close to the vehicle. If travelling at speed, you would be focussing your eyes further ahead and so identifying problems well before the "dark region" occurs.

On another point, I think that the xenons are great, but a little like pencil-beam driving lights. Therefore the infill of the halogens may not be designed for flat terrain, but for undulating (or greater) terrain. What appears to be "shining to the heavens" (my expression) is actually designed to provide better lighting as you descend into a dip. (This is one of the reasons why people who have driving lights actually fit a spread-beam in conjunction with a pencil beam.)

I'm finding the discussion quite illuminating, so let the discussion continue. ;)

Best Wishes,
Peter

[Graeme]

Therefore the infill of the halogens may not be designed for flat terrain, but for undulating (or greater) terrain. What appears to be "shining to the heavens" (my expression) is actually designed to provide better lighting as you descend into a dip.
Absolutely no chance of this being the case with these faulty lights.
As for hight beam legal requirements, in NSW at least high beams must illuminate the road at least 75 metres ahead. These faulty halogens don't shine anywhere near the ground so fail miserably, but as the bi-xenons when on high beam illuminate more than this distance, the vehicle is still roadworthy.

I called LR CC today and added my vehicle to the list of D4s with faulty lights. However the dealer has to advise LR that they're faulty, which I was told had been done, so I need to confirm with the dealer just what steps they have in mind.

[Graeme]

Fairly obvious that the poms don't have great furry brown things leaping out in front of them at night...
They're just catering for tree kangaroos and possums that haven't yet jumped down from the trees.

[gghaggis]

My halogen in-fills shine a little higher than the xenons, but I never really considered it a 'fault'. Around the city they're great for seeing street names in dimly-lit streets, and give a reasonable spread out in the country, which as Peter said, the xenons don't do - makes spotting Skippy actually a little less haphazard.

Perhaps others have halogens aimed higher than mine? Mine are certainly higher than the xenons, but if they weren't, I doubt you'd even see the halogen pattern - they'd be drowned out by the xenons.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Beamin]

Thanks Bushwanderer. I agree that 40m is not optimal but I had to work with what I could find for a projection screen in a small town. At 100m the halogen beams would have gone way over the roof of this building so would not have been visible in the photos.

I'm still looking for a screen big enough to show the beam pattern clearly from 100m but it's a bit of a challenge. The deep cuttings on the F3 would be good, but a bit tricky to set up the photos and take measurements, etc. The halogen beam appears around the top of those F3 cuttings and sometimes catches the trees above the cuttings, which is all very interesting and entertaining but not much use in practical terms. I understand what you're saying about extending the spread of light beyond the xenon pencil beams, but that's a bit more than a "dip".

Thanks also to Graeme for contacting Customer Care to help this gain some momentum. Eventually LR will realise this is something they have to look at properly. Increasing numbers of affected owners contacting them about this will make it harder for them to ignore it, so the sooner we'll see something happen.

[Jesse B]

They're just catering for tree kangaroos and possums that haven't yet jumped down from the trees.

Might be a few poms that haven't jumped down outta the trees yet too... (maybe including those who designed these lights!) :wasntme:

[Jesse B]

I rang Customer Service at LRA the day before yesterday, and the nice lady rang me back yesterday (having spoken to "technical") - and then, at my request, sent me an email response to my "complaint" about the halogens. As their email demands "no dissemination" of their message I cannot quote directly, but this is a paraphrase of what was said:

"Headlamps meet LR's quality requirements, and when adjusted correctly conform to EEC and Australian Design Rules for headlamp projection angles". They went on to say that the halogens are supposed to be "in- fill" lamps, to provide additional light to areas not covered by the Xenons, and that they are "not driving lamps".

Surprise, surprise!! So, this morning I have written a three-page letter to the Customer Service Manager, including the photos I posted here (in high resolution!), and an offer to take him/her for a night drive if they wanted to come to Albany. We shall see what we shall see, but it doesn't look hopeful. It's a shame that LR would hide behind ADR compliance, especially when all sorts of rubbish cars with lousy design elements meet the same "standards"...

[CaverD3]

I guess they do cover where the Bizenons don't cover; the night sky. :Rolling:

Oh and "techical" is the same guy who said the suspension mod was illegal. :angel:

[Graeme]

It's a shame that LR would hide behind ADR compliance
I suspect that the vehicles that passed the compliance inspection were not optioned with the possum lights.

[Beamin]

Thanks Jesse B. Can you post the address you sent your letter to? I'll write a letter as well and I'd like to make sure it goes to the same place and hopefully the same person. We're unlikely to bury the guy in a mountain of mail but we may as well create a paper trail and get noticed properly.

[Graeme]

Hey Sniegy,
Is your vehicle fitted with the possum lights?

[AnD3rew]

This experience is entirely consistant with past experiences I have had whilst discussing Land Rover "features" with them. All I can say is that I have been at least partly satisfied with the outcomes in the end if not with the responsiveness. But that without constant harrassment, complaints and threats they will do absolutely nothing. Customer service and customer satisfaction are not concepts they have fully come to terms with, so keep up the pressure and something might happen.

[Jesse B]

Thanks Jesse B. Can you post the address you sent your letter to? I'll write a letter as well and I'd like to make sure it goes to the same place and hopefully the same person. We're unlikely to bury the guy in a mountain of mail but we may as well create a paper trail and get noticed properly.

My letter was addressed to the Customer Care Manager, LRA, PO Box 162, Toowong, Qld 4066. At that point I did not have a name. However, I have just now received an email response to my letter (which I actually sent as a pdf attachment to enquiries@landrovercustomers.com.au), and this was sent by Eden Howard. There was no indication as to what position this person was in.

Upon reflection, I should have posted the letter - though there is still no guarantee it would get to anyone in a position of any power.

The response was worthless - an exact re-statement of the previous missive about "complying with ADR's" etc. Depressingly disappointing, but not surprising. And that is sad (that it was not surprising).

My next thought is to find a tame vehicle inspector (someone who should know the ADR's etc) and run this past them - at least show them the pictures and the mathematics of the situation. But that is probably a dead-end too, given the LR have their compliance plates... :(

[CaverD3]

Land Rover actually call them "Halogen headlamps - High beam" so I would think the headlamp high beams should all be able to be correctly set.

[Graeme]

They would certainly fail the ADR high-beam test as far as lighting the road at least 75 metres ahead. If the bi-xenon was unplugged there would be no light on the road.

Can someone confirm that the halogens in the D3 bi-xenon assembly are aligned more or less in line with the bi-xenons and not in up in the trees?

[sniegy]

Hey Sniegy,
Is your vehicle fitted with the possum lights?
Hi Graeme,
Mine arent as bad as yours or the others, My L/H light is a little off.

[Graeme]

Thanks Sniegy. So there is evidence that at least some halogens shine on the road.

[Beamin]

My next thought is to find a tame vehicle inspector (someone who should know the ADR's etc) and run this past them - at least show them the pictures and the mathematics of the situation. But that is probably a dead-end too, given the LR have their compliance plates...

I had a quick trawl through the ADRs this morning (deathly boring) and found a few requirements that these wonky lights probably don't meet. If you do have access to a vehicle inspector, point their attention to ADR 77/00 (gas discharge headlamps) at clause 6.3.2.3 in Appendix A which requires a certain amount of light at specific distances each side of the xenon pencil beam, on the same horizontal plane as the centre of the xenon high beam. This would seem to be the function of the halogen beam, but because it projects much higher than the xenon beam in the affected lights and leaves a dark gap each side of the xenon beam, these lights may not comply with the ADR.

Assuming for the moment that only some lights have this defect, this creates another ADR failure regarding conformity of production (clause 9 in Appendix A), which can lead to withdrawal of the ADR approval for the lights on all D4s. Having the ADR approval withdrawn makes the cars unroadworthy and illegal to sell in Australia.

However, if these possum lights are in fact a "feature of the vehicle" as claimed by LR UK (meaning that all D4 lights are like this) then they probably all fail the ADR compliance test and can't be driven or sold. Presumably this isn't the case, as the batch of sample headlights actually tested for ADR compliance must have passed for the D4 to be allowed onto the market. This suggests that only some lights are affected and that no ADR testing has yet been conducted on affected lights to raise the conformity of production problem.

Ultimately, LR is taking a big risk by putting its head in the sand about this problem. They could have ADR approval withdrawn, be stopped from selling D4s and face an embarrassing recall. Oh what a shameful feeling.

[CaverD3]

Ultimately, LR is taking a big risk by putting its head in the sand about this problem. They could have ADR approval withdrawn, be stopped from selling D4s and face an embarrassing recall. Oh what a shameful feeling.

Seems normal.:mad:
They still have their head in the sand over oil in the vacuum line of vehicles with VIN nos. outside the recall range. :angel:

[Graeme]

Great work Beamin! That's exactly what's needed to ensure LR correct these lights. This was not picked-up by the NSW RTA technical person with whom I spoke about these lights. I was also not aware that ALL bi-xenons produce a pencil beam and thus require the side lighting.

[Beamin]

Progress so far has been limited to getting standard-response-number-1 about complying with LR standards, EEC and ADRs when properly adjusted, etc, etc.

The bell has just rung for round 2 and I've had another swing that was a bit more pointed, so will see what the next response contains about whether LR are prepared to take a serious look at this issue before deciding where to go from there. Will let you know if I get anywhere or just another brush-off, but I'm running out of patience with them and the gloves might have to come off soon.

[Duck's Guts]

My D4 (Feb 2010 build, May delivery) with xenon headlights, came complete with the infill H7 halogen possum lights. Noticed this "feature" on the first night drive home from Sydney to the Hunter Valley.
Same test results on the garage door as everyone else too.

Replaced the H7 halogen bulbs with a H7 55W 6000k Xenon bulb kit. Much improved spread. Actually, it has resulted in an enormus spead of light!

The 'bead' xenon bulb where the gas is ignited is about 7mm further forward in the light when compared to the halogen bulb. No longer do I get the distinct possum light band. Now it is fully diffused in all directions & has made an impressive difference.
No joking...the light now spreads left & right, like a fog light, illuminating like day for 15~20m. And it still sends light skyward, so I still get to search for drop bears...
And best of all, no dark spots anywhere!

[Graeme]

Replaced the H7 halogen bulbs with a H7 55W 6000k Xenon bulb kit. Much improved spread. Actually, it has resulted in an enormus spead of light!

My plan too but once the aim is fixed. I might even try to get 3000K to improve dust and fog penetration.
The HID kits certainly generate heaps more light than halogens.

[pjvdl]

This is a great idea. I have noticed some black patches, with my D4 halogens definitely pointing high, although not as bad as some have reported.

Do you mind me asking, did you go with a high quality kit or an ebay/chinese import?

[Duck's Guts]

It was an eBay/chinese job. Seller was in Aust & had Aust stock. Seller name was "celli_electronics". Quick delivery. I'm happy.
Ballasts incorporated "integrated canbus & warning light cancellation technology". So no error codes.

Remember the ones I have are H7 55W HID's at 6000k colour. They have a noticable blue tint to their light colour output compared to the factory HID's at 5000k colour.

PS. I am not related to the eBay seller what-so-ever.

[Beamin]

This sounds like an interesting solution to the problem. Duck's Guts, are you able to post some photos of the beam pattern that your lights now throw onto a wall from 15 - 30m away? A regular point-and-shoot camera will take this photo fine just shooting through the windscreen without need for a tripod. Make sure the flash is turned off and snap a few in case you get some blurry ones from camera shake. I just rested my hands on the steering wheel and it seemed to work OK, even from 40m when using a pale wall.

Filling in the missing parts of the beam pattern by moving the light source forward by 7mm raises an interesting question: perhaps the high beam reflectors were originally designed to use zenon bulbs, but were replaced with halogens that are too short to match the focus of the reflector?

In the meantime, no real progress to report at my end. As of a couple of weeks ago, LR are still waiting for a response from UK about the ADR compliance issue. I'll let you know when I hear more.

[ADMIRAL]

It was an eBay/chinese job. Seller was in Aust & had Aust stock. Seller name was "celli_electronics". Quick delivery. I'm happy.
Ballasts incorporated "integrated canbus & warning light cancellation technology". So no error codes.

Remember the ones I have are H7 55W HID's at 6000k colour. They have a noticable blue tint to their light colour output compared to the factory HID's at 5000k colour.

PS. I am not related to the eBay seller what-so-ever.
I have the possum hunters as well. Can I ask what sort of dollars are involved in the conversion ?

[ADMIRAL]

Ok. Just found them on Ebay. Is that $99.00 odd dollars for the complete kit? Yes it is . Certainly worth taking a chance with them.

[GrahamB]

All these posts make very interesting reading. I have a 2010 RRS 3.0V6TTD. I've reported my possum lights to my dealer who adjusted them down so I only had 20m light from the low beam and the halogen lights were still too high. I certainly intend contacting Customer Care to add to the growing list of concerned owners. Perhaps forum members should contact motoring journalists including Jeremy Clarkson (a Range Rover fan) from Top Gear. It seems to me the more the wheel squeaks, the sooner a fix will be found. Replacing the halogen globe with Xenon lights should not be necessary as this so called characteristic design/manufacturing fault is LR's responsibility. Owner's should not have to rectify something that is obviously (to us) not right. How many of these representatives of LR actually own or drive D4s or RRSs? And how many of them have driven one at night on country roads, not freeways, where maximum illumination of the road ahead, not the tree tops, is a necessity.

[Duck's Guts]

Ok. Just found them on Ebay. Is that $99.00 odd dollars for the complete kit? Yes it is . Certainly worth taking a chance with them.

You hit the nail on the head....

[Duck's Guts]

This sounds like an interesting solution to the problem. Duck's Guts, are you able to post some photos of the beam pattern that your lights now throw onto a wall from 15 - 30m away?

I'll have a go tonight as soon as I've put the billy lids in bed...

[Duck's Guts]

Low beam & high beam at 10m:

[Duck's Guts]

Low beam & high beam at 25m:

[Duck's Guts]

Low beam & high beam at 15m:
(sorry, different wider target to previous two posts, hopefully giving a better idea of 'no black/shaded areas', also note that there is a slight grade up towards the shed)
Disclaimer: I am no photographer, nor am I that computer literate, so I am impressed I even got any photos loaded up at all!

[ADMIRAL]

Even at that range, mine have black holes. Just added them onto the list.

[Jesse B]

That is a WAY more even spread of light than mine have, and brighter too. Limited evidence of the horizontal "line" so apparent in my possum-spotters, so I've asked my sparkie to do this switch when he does my dual battery set-up in a week or so. Good work, Duck's Guts - and well done for posting up not one but six pics! No need for your "disclaimer". :BigThumb:

I know we shouldn't have to make this kind of change, but I have no faith at all that LR are going to recognise the problem, let alone deliver a fix for it.

[GrahamB]

Hi all, my latest update. I wrote to Caravan+RV magazine but haven't had a reply as yet. I spoke to LR Customer Care and the response I received was as expected, the lights comply with ADRs and rego. Nothing more than corporate spin. No offer to come and inspect my car, no satisfaction. I had my lights checked by a vehicle inspector at the local motor registry but according to his apparatus, they were almost spot on even though he could see the halogen beam rising along the side wall of the building. My latest approach was to the Dealer Principal at the dealership where I bought the car. He listened sympathetically to my tale and made an undertaking to take up the issue with LRA. I await his phone call. I am still hoping LRA will recognise there is a problem and fix it but I am the eternal optimist and pigs might fly. I'll let you know the result.

[Graeme]

I asked the person who did the blue-slip inspection of my vehicle for initial rego if he had the ability to defect the vehicle if I was to officially inform him of the non-compliance with ADRs. He said that the RTA wont defect for non-compliance with ADRs but the police will if they become aware of it and are inclined to do something about it. He didn't like the idea saying it would then cost him $20+ in phone calls to get the defect cleared once corrected. I'm hoping not to need to go down this path and if I did, I'd look for a less hostile inspector.

[GrahamB]

We really need everyone who has this problem to bombard/inundate LR Customer Care with reports so they can't blow us off with their corporate spin. Surely there are more owners with the issue than just the handful in this thread. Therefore this is a plea to all members of this forum who have mis-aligned high beam headlights on their LR product, please call LR Customer Care on 1800 625 642. It's a free call from a landline so it's only going to cost you your time. After all, we are driving their products, they're not Holdens or Fords or something from Korea. If you really have any sort of brand loyalty and wouldn't drive anything else, call them! It's for the benefit of all LR owners, not just those on this forum.
Cheers
Graham

[Peter]

Guys,

Latecomer to the thread (and the Forum) but thought of lending a bit of support and an observation or two.

I did the 55W HID 6000 conversion about this time last year to my D3. My kit cost about $200 delivered (back then) and I managed to fit the transformers etc in the existing housing so it ended up quite neat. I chose this option over a set of Spotlights as the fitting of additional lights is not simple on the D3 plastic bumper.

Positives
Yes there was a real improvement.
It has averted the need for spotlights although I would prefer a good set of HID spots.
An affordable and neat improvement using existing wiring as it is about the same current draw as the original halogen globes.

Negative
The beam does not seem to be adjustable (let me know how if it is).
The pattern does not completely complement the High/Low HIDs.
They produce more glare (i.e. the bulb has no little reflector hood over the end like on the halogens and it produces an unusual spread pattern as observed previously in this thread) all this results in a need to dip sooner than expected.

Personally I feel the conversion is worth it and a good alternative considering the investment required for the mounting bar and spotlight option.

Hope this helps.

Cheers PK

[Graeme]

Peter,

Did the light from your D3 halogens align with the bi-xenon high beam or was it up in the trees like the D4 halogens? No-one seemed to complain about the D3 halogen alignment which suggests that it was not in the trees.

[Graeme]

Therefore this is a plea to all members of this forum who have mis-aligned high beam headlights on their LR product, please call LR Customer Care on 1800 625 642.
When I rang I was told I was the first person to complain yet someone had already posted here that they rang a day or so earlier. I don't know if this number gets different offices for different states or whether LR are trying to ignore it.

[Peter]

The Light form the D3 50W originals formed two discernable yellow smudges on the road in front (>90% useless). I have no recollection of the possum hunting experiences of the current D4 owners. I thought the D3 lights were actually targeted too low. Remember this is perceived light as the halogens throw significantly less light than the HID High beam.

The new beam pattern with the HID replacements produces a heap of bright white light just in front (where the original smudges were), an odd shaped centre weighted patch and greater light elsewhere including the glare I spoke of. I would like to try separating (widening) and raising the beam pattern if that were possible.

It’s all in the optics as they are small multi faceted reflectors which I expect are supplied to assist the halogen H/L variant and only add to the aesthetics on HID models.

Perhaps enough D3 owners complained about the pattern being too low and they ‘fixed’ it J.

Hope this helps.

Cheers PK

[Duck's Guts]

Perhaps enough D3 owners complained about the pattern being too low and they ‘fixed’ it J.



:lol2::lol2::lol2: very clever....

[Graeme]

Thanks Peter. The D3 halogens actually being low enough to shine on the road is what I wanted to know. If both lights are too low then perhaps they need to be adjusted up a little.

The halogens are to fill-in the sides as the bi-xenons are primarily just a spot. The D4 halogen is a wide narrow band which would be quite useful if it shone low enough.

[GrahamB]

Time for an update. My local dealer principal passed my concern to his new service manager who is going to take it up with LRA. I took the car to him so he could see the lights for himself. Still waiting for a response.
In the meantime, I emailed Dept of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government and received a prompt response from the Senior Engineer, Vehicle Safety Standards Branch. I outlined my problem and he is passing it on to Light Vehicle Certification and Vehicle Safety & Recall section. I am waiting for their contact. There seems to be a lot duck shoving and passing the buck, but I am quietly confident of getting some sort of result from somewhere. I am not giving up just yet.

Graham

[Graeme]

My email to RVCS has just been sent. Thanks GrahamB.

[Beamin]

Any response yet from the vehicle safety/recall people? Have they arranged any testing? Are they waiting for more people to contact them?

[Graeme]

I've not heard from RVCS.

The dealer had ordered a new pair of lights for my vehicle but the boxes contained halogen versions so more waiting. I have ordered some HID globes to use instead of remounting my driving lights through the grille whilst I wait for a bull-bar. I'll pack the HID globes to make them centre properly in the reflector, which I had more or less done with the halogen globes by bending the bottom tab a long way back. I'm getting 3000K globes to see how useable they are in fog.

[Beamin]

Inspired by the success of Duck's Guts and the photos showing the results of his HID conversion, I got my local autoelectrician to replace the halogen high beams with HID conversions.

It didn't initially have the desired effect. The new HID beam just pointed up into the trees the same as the halogen beams had before, showing a similar flat band pattern well above the bi-xenon high beams and patches of darkness below on each side of the road.

Not happy with that result, the sparky pulled apart one of the lights to see what could be done, not believing that a light could be released that didn't have some means of adjustment. After confirming that the whole reflector is a single piece with no way to provide independent adjustment between the 2 parts of the light, he fiddled with the angle of the new HID bulb till he was happy with where it pointed, then had to use hot glue to hold the bulb in that position and stop it falling out. Not ideal, but it works.

Photos below show the beam pattern before the HID conversion and after. Not sure if much the same result might perhaps have been achieved by angling the halogen bulb and some hot glue without the need for HID conversion, but at least the HID bulbs should last a lot longer before they need to be replaced and face up to the the hot glue challenge.

Not completely convinced about the colour yet, but will see how they go on next night drive. These ones are 6500K and they're a bit too far into the blue/green part of the colour range for my liking, may have to swap them for 5000K instead to get a bit better colour rendition (hot glue permitting).

[Graeme]

Bending the halogen globe's tab back made the beam much deeper and much more useful in undulating country than it was, although it was only just touching the ground.

[Beamin]

I'm getting 3000K globes to see how useable they are in fog.

From the little bit I've read so far I think 3000K might be a similar colour to the halogens, rather than the intense yellow of dedicated fog lights. Also, unless you rewire them to turn on separately from the regular high beams you will still have a flood of bright white 5000K light from the bi-xenon high beam generating glare in the fog anyway.

Only one way to find out for sure...

All the best.

[Graeme]

The bi-xenon high beam hasn't been too bad in the light fog I've encountered of late but the halogens bouncing off heavier fog higher up has often made high beam unuseable.
I'll be pleased if the 3000K HID are about halogen colour as I've never found yellow fog lights of much use but can do without the glare even from 4300K. But as you say, I'll find out in due course if they're worthwhile. I'll use the ballasts from my driving lights and if the 3000K are worthwhile, I'll buy another kit with H3C HID globes for the driving lights rather than use the current H3 so as to get back to the original light pattern.

Only the 3000K in fog? Hmm, I could be tempted to do something about that one day.

[Duck's Guts]

Beamin,

Sorry your results didn't replicate mine.
But your original halogen high beams were way higher out of alignment than mine were! It's likely that is the reason for the different results.

It seems that there is a great deal more variation to the alignment issue than I previously believed.

Anyways, as an update, I am still happy with the 6000K Xenon infills.
I have noted that they take a bit of time to warm-up to full output when first used each trip. But after that they light-up the road at full power after each time you dip for either a short or relatively long duration.
I'm still enjoying the opportunity to use high beam whenever I can. :D

[CaverD3]

The Zenons cannot be used as flash lights which is why they are halogens I think.

[Duck's Guts]

What do you mean "flash lights"?
Is that anything like the emergency service vehicles with their alternating high beams flashing on & off?

[CaverD3]

If you flash your lights (pull back on the stalk) in most cars the high beam comes on. If you have Xenons they are too slow to warm up so the halgen lights come on instead. If the lights are on the shutter on the Xenons will be raised as well. Hope that makes sense.

[Duck's Guts]

Yeap makes sense. Thanks.

I've not found any real problem with using my replacement Xenons to flash if/when required. But I do restain myself because of an unfounded fear that too many flashes may reduce the life of either the xenon bulb or the ballast.

[MartyJB]

Just got a call from the dealer, my September 10 build SE will be MY11 spec, one of the changes is the dropppiing of the bi-xenons and halogens with the signature lighting instead. The xenons are now a $700 option on the SE. Considering the issues would most agree it is still worthwhile getting the bi-xenons?

[Graeme]

Considering the issues would most agree it is still worthwhile getting the bi-xenons?
I expect the halogen high beam issue will eventually be resolved so don't consider that to be any reason to avoid the bi-xenons.
I find the bi-xenon high beam considerably better than my D2a that was fitted with +50 high beam globes, which is useful when there's oncoming traffic in the distance when the driving lights can't be used. However I still require the driving lights for their enormous light output.

[Graeme]

I fitted 3000K HID globes in the high beams today using the ballasts for my temporarily-removed driving lights running off the driving light relay. I will later convert to run directly from the high beam supply when I get a set H3C globes and ballasts for the driving lights. The colour is currently quite yellow but I expect it to whiten-up a little as occurred with my 4700K driving lights which were quite yellow initially.

I reduced the tab on each globe which lowered the beam to illuminate the road rather than just the possums, although not quite as much as is needed but very useable unlike the originals. Switching off the driving light switch to use only the bi-xenons reveals the huge amount of light the new globes produce even though they are quite yellow. I've only driven the short distance to my 1st gate but can see the spread across the paddock each side. I think they will do just what I wanted.

[sniegy]

Graeme,
2 boxes arrived for you today.:p

[Graeme]

Hey Sniegy,
What's inside the boxes - halogens again?

[sniegy]

Yes,


































& some bi-xenons too....:D:D

[Jesse B]

Thanks Graeme - excellent info indeed. What make & model of globes did you use? I had asked my auto electrician to fit some (very expensive) Phillips 5000k HIDs when he did my dual battery set-up a few weeks back, but he rang Phillips to check and was told "don't do it!". Apparently they expressed some concern about upsetting the rest of the "sensitive" electrics. I meant to follow this up earlier, but Life got in the way :eek:

[Graeme]

The globes are Chinese ebay 55w, as are the ballasts. I'm a bit surprised that no 'headlight not working' message occurs as 1 only powers a relay and the other has no load at all. However that means that if there's a problem when I change to power the ballasts from the H7 supply, I can revert to just powering a relay. The reason the ballasts aren't powered now is because the ballasts aren't mounted close enough for the power leads to reach.

I haven't been out at night yet to see how the 3000K lights work, being rather occupied with a last minute enhancement to my height controller system.

[Graeme]

Drunking the globes has only partially improved the possum lights, as while the beams now light the road verge and the trees beyond very well, the brightest part of the beam is still up with the critters. I await un-drunk globes and good light assemblies as they will be so much better again.

[allanboston]

Time for an update. My local dealer principal passed my concern to his new service manager who is going to take it up with LRA. I took the car to him so he could see the lights for himself. Still waiting for a response.
In the meantime, I emailed Dept of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government and received a prompt response from the Senior Engineer, Vehicle Safety Standards Branch. I outlined my problem and he is passing it on to Light Vehicle Certification and Vehicle Safety & Recall section. I am waiting for their contact. There seems to be a lot duck shoving and passing the buck, but I am quietly confident of getting some sort of result from somewhere. I am not giving up just yet.

Graham
Hi Folks,

Any further updates on the misalignment issues and whether LRA is going to address this via a recall. Mine is showing similar light patterns with the halogens substantially above the xenon and leaving dark patches on each side of the road. Very distracting when driving, as the dark patches distract your eyes from the road ahead. The dealer in Melbourne has looked at the vehicle and stated that the lights are correctly aligned and have referred the issue to LRA, but no fix offered yet??

Allan

3.0 TDV6 HSE

[Graeme]

From the little bit I've read so far I think 3000K might be a similar colour to the halogens, rather than the intense yellow of dedicated fog lights. Also, unless you rewire them to turn on separately from the regular high beams you will still have a flood of bright white 5000K light from the bi-xenon high beam generating glare in the fog anyway.

Only one way to find out for sure...

All the best.
Not fog, but I found the 3000K lights very good in rain, having driven for several hours in showery conditions. I switched back to high beam when passing trucks were still beside me and the lights shone straight though the spray. There was no reflection from raindrops at all. The wide beam lighting the road verges provided a more useful light than my HID driving lights did and I didn't have to worry about blinding traffic that popped out of nowhere. It had been a long day that started with a 4 hour drive and ended with another 4 hour drive yet the driving didn't make me tired. I'm very happy with the lights and getting the wasted light down from the trees can only make them better still.

[camoo]

Allan,

I thought this was just me...

"light patterns with the halogens substantially above the xenon and leaving dark patches on each side of the road. Very distracting when driving, as the dark patches distract your eyes"

I was pointing this out to my kids last night. We have only had the SE for 3 weeks and as we live where there are no street lights (thanks to our local government) this is very noticeable.

I await a resolution.....

David

[Graeme]

Due to the courtesy of Sniegy from MLR, my headlight assemblies were replaced today without me having to travel very far. But alas the new lights with normal H7 globes fitted have the same possum high beams as the originals.

If I happened to get hold of a discarded pair of assemblies I would disassemble them and pack the bi-xenon assembly mounting to fix the alignment. Meanwhile I have refitted the HID globes with their modified tabs that bring enough light down to road level to provide a lot more light than the bi-xenons.

[Graeme]

Time for an update. My local dealer principal passed my concern to his new service manager who is going to take it up with LRA. I took the car to him so he could see the lights for himself. Still waiting for a response.
In the meantime, I emailed Dept of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government and received a prompt response from the Senior Engineer, Vehicle Safety Standards Branch. I outlined my problem and he is passing it on to Light Vehicle Certification and Vehicle Safety & Recall section. I am waiting for their contact. There seems to be a lot duck shoving and passing the buck, but I am quietly confident of getting some sort of result from somewhere. I am not giving up just yet.

Graham
Any progress yet?

ADR rule 77/00 Gas Discharge Headlamps at 6.3.2.3 provides 2 measuring points and minimum lux to the left and right on the horizontal line from the centre point of the low-beam cut-off lines (point HV on diagram Figure A in Annex 3) that the driving (high) beam must meet, when shone on a screen 25 metres directly in front. Whilst I don't have a lux meter, I'd be very surprised if the bi-xenon light produces enough light by itself to pass the tests. The halogen beams don't contribute any light to the test, not being on the same horizontal plane.

JLRA obtained the D4's ADR rule 77 approval in June 2009 as part of their original compliance application 41394 (the number on the compliance plate) and have not sought any further ADR rule 77 approval since, according to RVCS records which are provided by the RVCS web-site. The lights submitted could have been pre-production models but regardless, JLRA are in contravention of their compliance approval if the bi-xenon high beams now don't meet the horizontal lux tests.

I consider the lack of horizontal light is both a safety issue and a technical breach of ADR rule 77 and thus the approval to market D4s in Australia.

[discomaniac]

Hi All,
Carefully following the outcomes here. My D4 HSE has the Possum Spotting feature as well. Would like it fixed, as I too, consider it a fault.

discomaniac

[Graeme]

The Vehicle Safety Standards section of the Federal Govt Dept of Transport is not currently interested in further investigation of possible non-compliace with ADRs because LR provided documents showing EC approval of the lights. However the NSW RTA Safer Vehicle dept is currently interested in the topic and are prepared to do their own testing if they conclude testing is warranted, regardless of any provided compliance documentation. If they find the lights do not comply with ADR 77/00 then they will take the matter up with the Federal Dept of Transport because of the overall vehicle ADR compliance. Fingers are crossed that the RTA also finds the lights don't comply.

[gghaggis]

But how does this affect those of us that have no issues with the lights?? We seem to be in the majority - are we then going to have to have our vehicles recalled/re-examined? Please relieve my worried mind (sorry - listening to Eric Clapton at the moment!).

Cheers,

Gordon

[Graeme]

Gordon,
Can you post a picture of your high-beam lights shining on a wall at around 25m distance, considering that other 2010 RRS owners have reported the possum lights?

[Beamin]

Hi Gordon

As with all recalls, only a minority of the particular product is actually faulty but the recall is still necessary if there is a safety problem. However, there are other ways of dealing with the problem and a recall program is not the only option unless it gets to the stage of the government ordering a recall.

Personally, I think it is very foolish of LRA to pretend this problem doesn't exist and refuse to fix the individual cars where this problem has been reported. By doing so they are risking their ADR certification (= permission to sell the car in this country) and potentially affecting all of their other customers. If it is just a minority of cars affected, wouldn't it be much better to take care of them quietly without involving all other owners and the reputation of the brand?

LRA are free to run their business however they see fit, but if inconvenience is caused to all their customers by a recall, that is the consequence of their decision to ignore a small problem until it escalated into a big problem. Responsibility does not lie with the owners who report the problem and won't put up with it being ignored.

[GrahamB]

The latest corporate spin from LRA is that my headlights are within specification. This is very interesting as they have not examined my car. My next course of action is to take the car to a reputable authorised inspection station and have them examine the lights and hopefully get a written report stating the lights are not aimed correctly and perhaps are even unroadworthy. I will then take the report to my dealer so they can pass it on to LRA. I haven't given up yet, there are still a few avenues available to explore. Will keep you posted.

[Graeme]

I've just asked the RTA if there's anything to report yet. It might act as a reminder to get started.

[Disomania]

I've got possum spotters too. Seems that they light up the trees really well, while the low beam is chopped and the light almost seems to stop 3m in front of the road you can see from the seats.

I look forward to the outcome of your query.

[uttanutta]

I own a disco 4 May 2010. My lights were of the "possum" nature as well. The halogens hit the top of the tree line at 250 metres. Well out of wack closer and basically useless. I received emails from LRA that stated thus (this was exactly 12 months ago)
_____________
"Thank you again for your correspondence regarding the headlights of your Discovery 4.

We confirm that the issue has been reviewed by Land Rover Australia in conjunction with Land Rover UK. The headlamps have been identified as meeting Land Rover's quality requirements and being similar to other vehicles in the model line. When the headlamps are correctly adjusted they conform to all EEC and Australian Design Regulations for headlamp projection angles. The halogen lights are used as “fill in” lamps, to provide additional light to areas in the Xenon lamp pattern. They are not long range driving lamps and cannot be further adjusted.

You should have no cause for concern with the durability of your vehicle in the long term. However, should a condition arise with respect to the headlights we would review the issue at that time, taking into consideration the age, kilometres and service history of the vehicle.

Land Rover Australia remains committed to your vehicle in the longer term and you can be assured that we will support our products in an endeavour to achieve a high level of customer satisfaction.

We hope this clarifies the situation and thank you for bringing this matter to our attention. We trust you will enjoy many happy and safe years of motoring.

Kind regards,"
_______________

I then had the halogen bulbs removed and HID bulbs inserted and the different length of the bulb (Marginally longer) changed the angle of the light significantly. Still higher than I would have liked but with a greater field of white light lower than the halogen level was previously. This coupled with new HID IPF spots (as a wider beam is not now necessary with the bi-xenon and HID low and high) and I have comprehensive light for my outback night driving requirements.
_______________

Sorry but in my dealings with LRA over the past 12 months and the results I have achieved, I guarantee you, you will not get a satisfactory result taking this path. You will need to have an outside party influence their decision making process.

[GrahamB]

Disomania
I assume your dealer is the same as mine. May I suggest you take your car to an independent authorised inspection station and ask them for a written report so you can pass it on to the dealer. The current Service Manager is not aware of any other complaints about the lights apart from mine.
Cheers
Graham

[SWH]

Uttanutta,

My lights have the same possum spotting problem.

I have a MY11 2.7 D4, with zenon and the adaptive(?) set up.

Can you advise costs and who you used to convert the halogens and insert HIDs. What issues if any with this arrangement?

Thanks

[Beamin]

Hi SWH. I can't remember the exact cost but it was around $400 - 500 for the local autoelectrician to change the halogens to HID and get the vertical alignment right with the help of hot glue. See my post on 5 August last year (#119) for a description and photos of the before/after beam pattern.

Apart from getting the vertical alignment right the only other issue I would suggest is getting the HID colour right. My sparky didn't have a good grasp of what the K numbers mean so I ended up with 6500K rather than 5000K that I would have preferred. A bigger number doesn't equate to better performance.

[Graeme]

I bought an ebay kit for around $100. My (3000K) globes have the plastic locating lug filed down enough to cause the the globe to point upwards (the lug is at the bottom) to widen the beam downwards. The beam now lights the road as well as the possums, although I'd prefer not to see possums and get more concentrated light where it can be used. I still haven't felt the need to refit the driving lights but might one day.

[101RRS]

Firstly I do not have the problem in my RRS and I appreciate that the car is supposed to remain level with the air suspension, but I do wish it was fitted with the four position height adjustable lights that my Freelander has. Around town I have the lights pointed down as range is not needed and it is better to have the area well lit in front - out in the country I have them up so that low beam gives a bit of range and high is also up a bit - it leaves you with a bit of control.

I find the bi Xenon low beam on the RRS gives reasonable light but cuts off too much giving not enough range and the halogen hi beams provide a rather ordinary light of reasonable range but not much intensity. Maybe I should change to HID on high beams.

Garry

[uttanutta]

SWH,
The local auto-elec (Goondiwindi) did mine for about a total of $450. He's the son of a mate of mine so he was asked to do the "right thing" by me. I agree with Beamin's comments that the higher the number does not mean better lighting. I went with the 5000 light but did not manually adjust the position of the new bulb. It is not perfect! but it is a hell of a lot better than the halogens and was fine for all night driving trips up until the ARB Bullbar was released and I added the IPF spots to it to finish it off.
I continue to be amazed with LRA and have previously stated, and no doubt will have cause to again, that the word "assist" should never appear in the LRA debacle that Land Rover hang their shingle on.

[GrahamB]

I am quite reluctant to spend money on a problem that is covered by warranty. It is the responsibility of LRA to rectify the issue and I am going to exhaust all avenues before I spend any of my own money. I have passed on the report from the rego inspection guy to my dealer, who passed it on to LRA. Also emailed LRA and asked them what the procedure was to correctly adjust the lights. Now waiting for their response.

[Graeme]

I had always intended to convert the halogen to HID but I still think it stinks that LR wont accept that there's an alignment problem, along with the federal govt dept that is content to rely on documents provided by LR rather than pictures of the actual light output. It seems that no-one is really interested.

[Disomania]

Disomania
I assume your dealer is the same as mine. May I suggest you take your car to an independent authorised inspection station and ask them for a written report so you can pass it on to the dealer. The current Service Manager is not aware of any other complaints about the lights apart from mine.
Cheers
Graham

Might just have to do that.

[GrahamB]

It seems LRA is not going to acknowledge there is anything wrong with the halogen lights shining up in the trees until they are forced to by a statutory authority. Their standard response is "the investigations have deemed the beam of the headlights to be operating within the manufacturing specification and as being similar to other vehicles in the model line."
They also refer to ADR 77 which is for gas discharge headlamps. Please correct me if I'm wrong but aren't halogen lights filament lights? If so, ADR 77 does not apply. Instead, have a look at ADR 46: Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 46/00 - Headlamps) 2006 (http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2007C00601)
Cheers
Graham :)

[Graeme]

ADR 77/00 is the applicable ADR because the vehicle is fitted with gas discharge headlamps for low and high beam. The halogens are described by LR as fill-in lamps which would only be required under ADR 77/00 if the gas disharge lamps don't provide the mandatory light to the sides (there are 2 measurement points on each side of the lights). I do not have measuring equipment to determine if the bi-xenons alone provide side lighting that satisfies the requirements although my shed wall test suggests that they do not. If they do not then the headlamps do not comply with ADR 77/00 because the fill-in lights must be on the same horizontal plane as the low-beam horizontal cut-off line as described/defined in ADR 77/00. If the bi-xenons themselves provide the necessary side light (and necessary forward light at 75 metres which they seem to easily provide) then there is no light output requirement for the halogens.

I am intrigued that there is no E-mark for the halogens on the light assembly. The bi-xenon E-mark (its a single light source approval number) is on the globe holder and the E-mark for the blinker is on the assembly adjacent to the blinker globe. This suggests that either the bi-xenon doesn't require the halogen or the halogen+bi-xenon combination never obtained E approval, but it wouldn't have passed due to being possum spotters!

I have not received any response from my 3rd June inquiry to the NSW RTA for an update on their investigations. My information was going to be passed to the Safer Vehicles dept for investigation.

Edit: I would like to see how LR would explain the vastly different high-beam light patterns between the D3 and D4 lights.

[Graeme]

As a consequence of my and other owners' complaints, JLRA has supplied the vehicle compliance dept with documentation that shows the lights have been certified to conform the European standards (UN ECE 98) and therefore acceptable to the ADR standards, so JLRA are likely to be confident that nothing needs to be done about the lights. Only if a state registration authority (eg NSW RTA) or a large motoring organisation leans on the Fed Dept of Infrastructure and Transport might the topic be re-opened which could then lead to JLRA having to correct the lights. The Dept of Infrastructure and Transport would not answer my questions as to what JLRA provided or relied upon for their approval, saying only that they has sighted the confidential documentation that showed that the lights had been certified. From my questioning, I formed the opinion that test data was not supplied, only the certification statement. I considered that the Dept of Infrastructure and Transport person didn't want to be bothered with having to test lights. The NRMA was unable to help as they have not had anyone who could persue this since they split with their insurance business.

[outasight]

What a marathon read fellas!:o

So I am waiting for my brand new MY11 D4 SE to arrive next month, and the salesperson has so far said on the 3 occassions I asked him, that is does indeed have the Bi-Zenons fitted, where I had been led to believe they now had to be optioned, even on the SE.

The question is would you still recommend the Bi-zenons despite all your issues, or would you be happy with the Halogens. I had told the salesperson repeatedly that Bi-zenons were a MUST in the deal, so need to know whether to push the issue.

[NauticAl]

Outasight

My 3 week old D4 SE has the Bi-Zenons and it was (and is) my understanding that they are one of the standard fitments on the SE, along with the folding mirrors, big brakes and the 3.0 litre engine package.

The WA dealer also upgrades all the SE's he imports to 7 seats and leather. I don't know if the other dealers in the other states do this. I wasn't fussy about the 7 seats (although they weill be useful) but the leather seats are great.

The SE is a great car! I originally ordered the 2.7 and woke up in the night with a blinding relaisation that I would always regret not getting the 3.0 if I went ahead with the 2.7. I phoned the dealer at 8:00 the next morning!

To minimise any bias ( I already have a 98 D1) I compared a Pajero Exceed with the SE on the same day. It was like comparing chalk and cheese.

You will love the SE.

Cheers

Al

[outasight]

Thanks Al,

It's strange what everyone gets led to believe ...

Discovery 4 SE models are 7 seats & leather as standard & always were for the D4.

The TDV6(2.7) is 5 seats & cloth as standard, but more are ordered with the 7 seat/leather option than not. Some private sellers on Car Sales even believe they have SE models due to the 7 seat/leather option!

Bi-zenons WERE standard for the D4 SE models when they were first released, but I had heard that for MY11 they had made them an option only for some weird reason. The Land Rover website also currently supports this theory if you look at the SE and it's options on there.

Regards,

Les.

[Wirraway]

Agree with you Les. We ordered our D4 SE last year and it had the bi-xenons as standard but were then told that ours was to be an MY11 and the bi-xenons had to be optioned.

[Graeme]

The question is would you still recommend the Bi-zenons despite all your issues, or would you be happy with the Halogens.
The bi-xenons have a high beam whereas the halogens low beam is only low beam. However the halogen's high beam if properly aimed would produce better normal high-beam light if converted to HID than the bi-xenon's halogen fill-in lights that produce a wide narrow band.

The bi-xenon low beam is better in rain than my D2a +50 halogen globes. I also had HIDs in the D2a's high beam which I thought gave good light until I fitted a set of old Narva 4x4 off-roader driving lights converted to HID. But I've just re-fitted those driving lights to the D4 because the possum lights are still too high in the straight-ahead position.

I suspect I'd save my money 2nd time around if the bi-xenons' fault can't be shown to have been corrected.

[Wirraway]

The question is would you still recommend the Bi-zenons despite all your issues, or would you be happy with the Halogens.

Even with the possum spotting issue I'm glad I optioned the bi-xenons as they are still superior to previous vehicles I've had.

[outasight]

Thanks Wirraway,

I'm inclined to lean that way too. Can't wait for this discussion with the dealer!!! Appears more & more the salesman doesn't know some basics ... ;)

[GrahamB]

Since my direct approach to Land Rover failed, I have lodged a complaint with NSW Fair Trading. They have contacted me and are in the process of investigating the complaint. I look forward to their result. I have had an expert engineer examine the lights and I have a written report from him to be used as evidence in any conciliation meetings with Fair Trading & LRA. I also have a number of photos. Another card up my sleeve is the Commonwealth Ombudsman in relation to my unsatisfactory dealing with Dept of Infrastructure etc.
Is there anyone else out there, apart from Graeme, doing anything about this far from satisfactory situation?

[Jesse B]

Graham - I'm no longer doing anything direct, but am most certainly cheering you on! I wrote to LRA re my possum-spotters back in May last year, but received the standard verbiage about "complying with ADR's blah blah blah", and since then have concentrated on getting adequate lighting via a pair of Lightforce spots and some upgraded headlight globes. Despite this, the issue remains unresolved and unsatisfactory - and I'm happy to do what I can to support your case.

If you'd like to send me a PM with your email address in it I will happily email you a copy of the letter I sent to LRA, as back-up to your material. And good on you for pursuing this - I'm glad someone has more patience and perseverance than I!

[Graeme]

Is there anyone else out there, apart from Graeme, doing anything about this far from satisfactory situation?
My attempts seem to have stalled, having not received any reply to my request for an update from my earlier RTA contact.

[Beamin]

Thanks Graham for your resolve in keeping on pushing this and not letting the b*ggers get away with it. I took the soft option and paid some $$$ to an autoelectrician to bodgey up a modification of the lights using hot glue and HID inserts to put some useful light where it needs to be. I'm much calmer now, but still cranky about LRA's dishonesty about this issue and the BS they expect us to swallow.

Like Jesse B, I am more than happy to send you copies of my correspondence with LRA and photos before/after the fix if you want. Just send me your email address by PM and I'll dig it out for you.

All the best. I'm cheering you on and I am hoping to have some faith in the regulatory system restored by seeing them actually do something about an obvious failure. I would dearly love to see LRA's nose rubbed in it properly, after the contempt they have shown to us as their customers raising a serious complaint. I think we've given them every possible opportunity to keep themselves out of trouble, so I can't feel any sympathy for them now.

Apart from that, I really love this car.

[NauticAl]

I have what may be a stupid question. I had my D4 SE for just over a month and done 7500 km. I understood when I bought it that it was fitted with Bi-xenons. I have actually popped one of the light units out to have a look at it, without taking any bulbs out.

If the bi-xenons are an option, rather than standard fitting on an SE, how do I know whether I have bi-xenons or not? I assume that I have them but it occurs to me that I would not necessarily know if I hadn't.:(

I also have "possum spotting" lights, I have not noticed particularly any black spots (but I may just not have noticed) and I have a very sharp cuttof on the low beam, which is useful. I have been generally quite happy with the lights, although being used to having a spot / driving light combination on previous vehicles, I notice that I don't have great long range centre penetration.

When I start the car up ( with the lights on auto) there is always a bright white/blue flash of light as the lights come on. I don't know what causes this.

Cheers

Al

[Neil P]

... how do I know whether I have bi-xenons or not?
If you haven't got them , you'll see bulbs ( just like the
old-style car lights ) , otherwise it's the mag-lens and blue light
that takes 4 seconds to get to maximum from cold.

[NauticAl]

Hi Neil

OK, I have the small lens just outboard of the conventional high beam reflector. This means that I have bi-xenons? There are no other combinations that use the small lens and non-bi-xenon lighting?

There appear to be a lot of things that should/might be in the package that are/are not/might not be there that I am getting cautious about assuming anything. I only know I have an E diff lock beacuse I crawled underneath and found the operating servo motor.

I still have not worked out whether I have auto dipping reversing mirrors or not. Apparently there is supposed to be an enabling option on the driver information screen but it does not come up as an option on my SE. I don't have the touch screen on mine.

The owners manual is a great disapointment. There is no indication as you read the manual what features are standard or what are options. Apart from the purchase contract, I have no documentation what the vehicle was built or equipped with. Not very professional in my opinion.:thumbsdown:

Its a shame - the D4 is otherwise a great vehicle and I enjoy every drive!

Cheers

Al

[Neil P]

I'll tell you a funny story . When the D3 came out in Sept '04 , the
Owner's Manual had features in it that hadn't and never were made !
I really don't see why each country can't have its own dedicated
model book . It's pathetic really . And to this day there are many
aspects that people don't know about , such as the 5 sensitivity
settings for the auto wiper rain sensor . It's a bit like early "Windows"
: the info is in the system , but buggerif the user can find it or
alter it ...........

[outasight]

I have a very sharp cuttof on the low beam, which is useful.

When I start the car up ( with the lights on auto) there is always a bright white/blue flash of light as the lights come on. I don't know what causes this.

Cheers

Al

These two things indicate you DO have the bi-zenons. HID(Zenons)start blue & gain brightness & whiteness quickly thereafter. The shutter which gives the full(on high)beam creates the very distinct & sharp cutoff on low beam.

Regards,

Les.

[Beamin]

... there is always a bright white/blue flash of light as the lights come on. I don't know what causes this.

Hi Al

This white/blue flash is a dead give-away that you have the bi-xenon lights. From what I've read about how they work, I think this flash is the xenon bit doing its work, helping to ignite the arc and make the warm-up process a lot quicker than it would otherwise be.

If you haven't noticed dark areas along each side of the road where Skippy is waiting patiently to saunter out of the inky void to ruin your evening, your possum-spotters are probably OK.

As for having to refer to the contract to see what you've got, my D4 SE is one of the early batch that didn't even get an SE badge on the back (or even TDV6, for that matter). I haven't been able to find a single indication anywhere on the car that it is in fact an SE, or even that it's got the 3.0 motor although the right pedal removes all doubt about that. I actually prefer the clean look of the back without all that badgework, but I'm a bit curious what I can do at sale time to prove which model it is.

[Graeme]

As for having to refer to the contract to see what you've got, my D4 SE is one of the early batch that didn't even get an SE badge on the back (or even TDV6, for that matter). I haven't been able to find a single indication anywhere on the car that it is in fact an SE, or even that it's got the 3.0 motor although the right pedal removes all doubt about that. I actually prefer the clean look of the back without all that badgework, but I'm a bit curious what I can do at sale time to prove which model it is.
Mine didn't have any badges initially either, due to a lack of badges! Badges are fitted upon delivery anyway so the dealer just fitted them later. I would have preferred not to have any badges excepting that I would require them when selling it.

Your dealer should supply the badge.

[GrahamB]

Hello all

The latest news is my dealer has ordered a new set of headlamps from the mother land. Apparently they have a different part no. to the units fitted to my RRS. Can't wait to see if they make a difference. Not holding my breath, tho. Will keep you posted.

Graham

[Graeme]

My dealer yesterday confirmed that the original D4 light part numbers have been superceded, but needed to check if the replacement ones mine received were the old or new part number. I have the documentation from the replacement lights and the lights are the old numbers. Google has been useful in finding the replacement part numbers so I'll be pressing the dealer to obtain a set of the new part numbers in case they're better.

Edit: Looking into the headlights of 2 new RRSs & Freelander, the halogen globes seem to be parallel to the bi-xenon assemblies but a new D4's halogens seemed to still slope downwards. Maybe the part number on a D4 light assembly can be checked to see if its the old or new number and the light checked against a wall if its the new number.

[outasight]

I just took some photos of my June 2011 Build(August compliance) D4 SE Halogens Graeme. See if these help so far. I have found the lights to be ok generally. I reckon the high beam actual globe seems straight/parallel/horizontal. The surround is tapered so could give an optical illusion of pointing down maybe???

Regards,

Les.

[Graeme]

Thanks Les.

The halogen globe doesn't seem to be pointing down the way mine did before fitting HID globes on an angle. If you have you pointed your lights at a high wall at more than about 20 metres away you would surely know if you had the possum lights.

The sticker with the part number is on the top of the assembly and quite visible with the bonnet open - on mine's original and replacement lights anyway. It would be useful if you could at some time have a look to see if the left light has part number LR013989 or LR023540 or the right light has LR013973 or LR023539, with the 2nd number for the superceding parts. My original lights had totally different numbers which look like production numbers rather than the normal part numbers above.

Edit: I didn't even look at your 1st 2 pictures that show the labels that are the same sort of number as my originals, but I will go and check those numbers now.

Edit 2: Same top numbers except that the suffix is FC on both lights, suggesting your assemblies are a modified version. The bottom numbers could be batch numbers.

[GrahamB]

Lucky I didn't hold my breath. Just found out LRA refused the order from my dealer weeks ago and didn't tell me. Don't know why at this stage.

[Graeme]

I suspect my dealer wont even try as the report is that new vehicles are still the same.

[Graeme]

I just took some photos of my June 2011 Build(August compliance) D4 SE Halogens
Hi Les,
Any chance of getting pictures of the lights on both low and high beam shining on a wall from about 20 metres?

[jonesy63]

FWIW, I have a 11MY D4 2.7 and it not only has the "possum light" feature, but also found out (on the way to the AULRO 10th) the HID low beam flickers when I hit a pot hole. It is like the whole light assembly is loose.

So I will have this looked at during 1st service.

[outasight]

Hi Les,
Any chance of getting pictures of the lights on both low and high beam shining on a wall from about 20 metres?

I'll try to at some point - need to find a suitable factory wall too!
I'm sure they could do with a little adjusting anyway, especially the driver's side points a fair bit left.

Regards,

Les.

[Weird Al]

FWIW, I have a 11MY D4 2.7 and it not only has the "possum light" feature, but also found out (on the way to the AULRO 10th) the HID low beam flickers when I hit a pot hole. It is like the whole light assembly is loose.

So I will have this looked at during 1st service.

Me too...on all 3 counts.

11MY D4 2.7 with HID's
Possum lights
Which shake over big bumps.

The lights 'clip' onto the front of the car and are removed by sliding the tabs up, so the grille and the headlights can be removed in under a minute without any tools.

At my last service I complained about the very short range of the low beam (felt uneasy driving faster than 80km/h on low beam because I could not see far enough) and the tree top high beams, they adjusted the low beam and its much better now but said they could do nothing about the possum spotters, and I forgot about them shaking over bumps.

[jonesy63]

Agree - coming from a D3 SE which had incredible lights, the D4 bi-xenons are a step backwards... and to the side! :wasntme:

[irondoc]

i have nothing to back this up, but i think the "shaking" of the xenon lights on the D4 is normal - the light source as i understand is an arc of "electricity" between two points through gas, and this can move about a little bit.

happy to be proven wrong...

cheers
lucas

[jonesy63]

That is a reasonable excuse - but it never happened in the D3. :mad:

[CaverD3]

No shaking on my D3 and Rob has had both and noticed the difference.

[Graeme]

I had forgotten that my D4's lights shook, but the shaking seemed to stop about the time I fitted D3 shocks.

[Weird Al]

i have nothing to back this up, but i think the "shaking" of the xenon lights on the D4 is normal - the light source as i understand is an arc of "electricity" between two points through gas, and this can move about a little bit.

happy to be proven wrong...

cheers
lucas

An interesting theory, but I don't think so.

I had HID conversion High beams and HID Lightforce driving lights on my previous car a Grand Cherokee and they never shook.

Considering the driving lamps were spot beams and shone for several killometres. It would be fairly obvious if they did.

[outasight]

The odd harsh bump in my Subaru Liberty used to cause the HID's to give one "flicker". Never a big deal to me.

Regards,

Les.

[LGM]

I live in the country and try not to drive at night as I do not have a Bull Bar fitted yet. Got caught at work last week and ended up driving the 60km to home after dark. That gave me the opportunity to check out the D4 high beam issue for myself. Just like many others my high beam lights were a surprise when I first turned them on. Great for checking out potential 'drop bears'.

As I got used to the light pattern it seems as though there is a spread of light across the road ahead but certainly not concentrated where you would expect (require) it to be. Seems as the central part of the high beam is set straight ahead (in the trees) rather than to the road at some distance to the front. After reading through all the posts in this thread I have come to the conclusion that I will have to live with the issue and fitting a good set of driving lights to infill the obvious mid road gap is the go. At least its something I can do and get a reasonable result.

I have contacted the selling dealer and they want to discuss the issue with me when I am next in the big smoke. They have sent me an e-mail stating that the lights when on high beam are 'different'! This will no doubt be an interesting discussion. I have not noticed any "shake" from my lights but will look more closely when I next have to make the trek at night.:confused:

[WhiteD3]

I had a D3 SE and thought the bi-xenon lights were fantastic. So much so I paid for them as an option on the D4. Seem as good to me on the D4 as they were on the D3; no shaking noticed to date.

[Beamin]

Hi LGM

It sounds like yours might benefit from adjustment. The centre part of the high beam should not be up in the trees. Adjusting the aim down a bit is a simple job and might be all you need.

[CaverD3]

If you read the rest of the thread you will understand why that won't help.

[Beamin]

If you read the rest of the thread you will understand why that won't help.

On the contrary, LGM has described a different problem to the "possum spotter" halogen beams discussed in the bulk of this thread.

LGM's problem is described as "the centre part of the high beam" being set too high. The centre part of the high beam is the main HID beam (ie, the spot beam straight down the middle of the road), which has not really been discussed as a problem in this thread.

Adjusting the lights downwards will bring that main beam down and should fix the problem described in this post. Whether or not there is a separate problem with the adjustment of halogen fill-in beam on these particular lights is not yet clear, as that was not described in the post.

Best to try the simplest solution first, but I'm curious about what the dealer will say.

[LGM]

Like I said, the lights on high beam are 'different'! They certainly put out a spread of light both left and right towards the tree tops but they also have a spread in the forward direction along the road albeit poor. Hence my thoughts on a good set of driving lights.

I was not planning on getting to the dealer anytime soon (400km) so my discussion with them will have to wait, as will the driving lights until my (ordered) bull bar rolls up.

None the less I do believe the lights are not as they should be and its the dealers / LR role to fix same.

I live in hope!

[CaverD3]

Halogens come on with the high beam so the issue could be either. If the main lights are too high then adjustment may be the answer and could bring the holagens into line too.

[GrahamB]

Thinking of our soldiers, fallen, returned, former and serving on this Anzac Day.

My latest and possibly last post on this issue. After speaking with the service manager and foreman technician at my dealership yesterday, there is no fix for the possum lights because for some unknown reason, that's the way they were designed. The shallow, wide fill-in halogen beam is apparently designed to be positioned immediately above the central beam of the bi-xenon lights. The reason for this is unknown and Land Rover is not telling. It is still not clear what the halogen beam is meant to fill in. So I guess we will just have to suck it up and live with it but at the same time warn as many potential new customers as possible that this is the case and they won't get any joy from LRA. It would have been nice if LRA got their PR mob to issue some sort of positive statement instead of going on the defensive. All we expect from any corporation we deal with is for the issue to be fixed or information why the issue is so.

Cheers, beers and safe driving.

Graham

[Graeme]

I stopped beating my head against LR's brick wall some time ago. My tilted 3000K 55w HID globes broaden the beam sufficiently to bring the lower edge low enough to be about where it should have always been and still produce enough light even though the top of the beam is still way up in the trees. 5500K globes would produce more light if needed.

[LGM]

As discussed in my earlier posts, my answer has been to install a good set of driving lights. At that time I was waiting on a bull bar installation. I now have the bull bar and a set of HID driving lights so I have, to a great extent, solved the problem that I should not have had in the first place.

I have also had similar comments about the lights from the selling dealer and did not see any benefit in labouring the point. After all its not their fault. I will be in the UK this August and am taking the opportunity to visit Solihull taking the factory tour and an afternoon on the test track.

I am certainly lining up my questions! ;)

Maybe it is a long shot that someone in that environment will be able to 'throw some light' (no pun intended) on the subject.

[Beamin]

...for some unknown reason, that's the way they were designed.

I understand the need for self-preservation when the LR brick wall proves harder than your head, but this story about "designed that way" is obviously wrong. If they were designed that way, all the D4 headlights would have the same problem, but they don't. There are plenty (the majority?) that don't point the halogen spread beam into the treetops. For example, gghaggis commented in this thread (3 Feb 2011) that he had no problem with his and implied there were others who had no issue with their lights and didn't want the hassle of a recall.

Having said that, I also took the soft option some time ago and replaced the errant beams with angled HIDs, much better outcome and my skull is almost back to its normal shape.

Cheers.

[Mungus]

Not that i can remeber all 200 plus posts, but it seems only a few people have this problem. A few too many maybe, so it should be quite obvious to LR that there may be reason to allow owners to have an alignment check with possible replacement. Wouldn't need a full recall surely?
Could it be possible there may have been a bad batch of lights manufactured?
Has anyone with a MY12 got this issue?
When it's time, I might take an additional test drive at night!
In line with the rest of the vehicles credibility, i would expect nothing but the best when it comes to lighting.

[Graeme]

An MY11 still in the showroom had the problem. My assemblies were replaced with exactly the same except they had the spare parts number sticker rather than the production line part number sticker.

[LGM]

An MY11 still in the showroom had the problem. My assemblies were replaced with exactly the same except they had the spare parts number sticker rather than the production line part number sticker.

You have my interest!

I assume that the change fixed the problem?

[Graeme]

No, still possum lights.

[discotwinturbo]

If I am interpreting this correctly my 2012 has possum lights.
When I flick on high beam the is a spread of light from left to right fairly high up.....above where it should be on the road.
Brett....

[Mungus]

If I am interpreting this correctly my 2012 has possum lights.
When I flick on high beam the is a spread of light from left to right fairly high up.....above where it should be on the road.
Brett....

Brett,
Would you still consider the light output and quality for low and high beam to be satisfactory? Maybe in comparison to other vehicles you have owned! I wouldn't mind the fact that tree tops are lit up a little, in fact i have setup spot/flood lights on a cruiser before to achieve a little of that effect. If the area of view on the road is inferior with vehicles that have this trait, it is definately something i will need to look out for when the time comes to purchase. Don't really feel like modding the headlights on a 110K vehicle. Shouldn't have too!

[jonesy63]

... I will be in the UK this August and am taking the opportunity to visit Solihull taking the factory tour and an afternoon on the test track.

I am certainly lining up my questions! ;)

Can you ask them - why did they get Stevie Wonder to design the halogen high beam in the D4 with bi-xenons? The D3 had brilliant lights :angel: - and this is a major step backwards on an otherwise good package.

[Graeme]

Brett,
Wnen the headlights are shone onto a wall, do the halogens produce a wide narrow beam with its lower edge well above the bi-xenon lit area? If so, then your vehicle is also blessed with possum lights.

[trif]

Brett,
Would you still consider the light output and quality for low and high beam to be satisfactory? Maybe in comparison to other vehicles you have owned! I wouldn't mind the fact that tree tops are lit up a little, in fact i have setup spot/flood lights on a cruiser before to achieve a little of that effect. If the area of view on the road is inferior with vehicles that have this trait, it is definately something i will need to look out for when the time comes to purchase. Don't really feel like modding the headlights on a 110K vehicle. Shouldn't have too!

Hi Mungus,

Thought l might have my 2 cents worth. I have an MY11 HSE with the possum light feature. Even with this 'extra' feature l found the high beam comparable to other vehicles with spread of light at ground level (others may differ with this view). The light directed to the tree tops is certainly brighter and should be spread at ground level instead. I have cured my problem by installing LED driving lights. But as you say, for 100K+ the engineers should have done better.

Regards Trif.

[discotwinturbo]

Brett,
Wnen the headlights are shone onto a wall, do the halogens produce a wide narrow beam with its lower edge well above the bi-xenon lit area? If so, then your vehicle is also blessed with possum lights.

I shall test tonight against the garage wall.
Noticed it a lot when I first picked it up, but now I have an led light bar....and the lighting is bloody fantastic.

Brett....

[hydeslane]

When I got my D4 I had two black squares in the middle of the road on high beam. I thought tHis had something to do with the possum issue discussed here. It drove me mad for two months. Turned out to be a problem with the high beam deflector in the lights? After this was fixed my lights are brilliant.

[Mungus]

I have cured my problem by installing LED driving lights.
Regards Trif.

Did you end up with LEDs like the Nara Bronze link?


but now I have an led light bar....and the lighting is bloody fantastic.

Brett....

Brett,
Where does that LED light bar mount? Pics?

[discotwinturbo]

Pic of light bar.

Brett....

46384

[trif]

Pic of LED driving lights as requested. I have to start on the roof next :D.

Regards Trif.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Yes I have possum lights too.

Perhaps it's a design issue for climbing hairpin bends at night. Can't see any other reason unless they were designed by a zoologist.

Diana

[Mungus]

Pic of light bar.

Brett....

46384

Sorry bout this. Probably should know the answer, but why is your picture so small Brett?

[discotwinturbo]

Sorry bout this. Probably should know the answer, but why is your picture so small Brett?

Don't know mate. When I click on the pic it comes up full screen for me, both on the forum and on the forum runner app.

Brett....

[SBD4]

Yes I have possum lights too.

Perhaps it's a design issue for climbing hairpin bends at night. Can't see any other reason unless they were designed by a zoologist.

Diana

I think the same - particularly if caught out late in difficult circumstances where 'normal' lighting would not provide the view of the situation. ie coming out of a decent about to head up a steep rutted hill - gives you chance to pick your line etc. it's one theory and to be honest I don't mind extra illuminated scenery;)

[irondoc]

I find the lights quite distracting - they illuminate close bits in the trees which take your focus of the stuff a bit further away and i get the sense that my pupils are a little bit more constricted than they otherwise would be, making things further down the road a bit harder to see.

i plan to remove the bulbs or put blown ones in there so they don't work.

i'm not a big fan of putting HIDs in there, as these are the "flasher" lights which come on when you flash someone in daytime without lights on- HIDs don't do well being turned on and off continuously

cheers
lucas

[Graeme]

The rare quick flash doesn't get to heat the bulbs much and even if it did shorten their life a little, having good visibility of the verges and around bends every every time I drive at night far outweighs any reduced life of cheap HID globes for me.

[BMKal]

I find the lights quite distracting - they illuminate close bits in the trees which take your focus of the stuff a bit further away and i get the sense that my pupils are a little bit more constricted than they otherwise would be, making things further down the road a bit harder to see.

i plan to remove the bulbs or put blown ones in there so they don't work.i'm not a big fan of putting HIDs in there, as these are the "flasher" lights which come on when you flash someone in daytime without lights on- HIDs don't do well being turned on and off continuously
cheers
lucas

Geeez ........ how many people do you "flash" when you're out on the road. I drive the 600km between Perth and Kalgoorlie at night regularly, and might occasionally "flash" one or two people per trip.

And at "daytime" when these lights come on as you say - I rarely flash anyone.

But seriously though, turning hid's on & off continuously does no damage to them. I have a couple of predators on the front of the D4 that are permanently wired to hi beam (through a relay) - whenever I "flash" anything, whether it's daytime or at night, the predators also "flash" - and that's an eyefull. I've had these predators for more than 10 years now and they've been on at least 4 different vehicles over that time - still working as good as the day they were new.

[Ferret]

From RSAChris on the Disco.Co.UK forum (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic42173-30.html)


OK, so I took the headlamp assembly off and inspected ....

The plastic moulding for the fill-in Halogen is part and parcel of the base where the Xenon is fitted - so no adjustments here. The Xenon is fixed to the plastic moulding with 4 screws - plainly fixed, no adjustable thingy - nothing. And as previously said, the adjustment screws are for this complete contraption and no individual adjustment can be made... well uhmmm normally that is.

I gathered that the Xenon lamp had to be pointed to where the Halogen is pointing, so I loosened the Xenon fixture 4 screws and while on High-Beam, saw that the Xenon-fixture should be tilted about 4mm. I then inserted 4mm spacers between the top 2 screws and tighten... Heeha... both Xenon and Halogen then focused in the same spot. I then used the usual adjustment screws to adjust the whole assembly back down to where they should be.
All well and happy now.


Cheers
Christo

I got possum spotters too. Anyone tried anything similar here.

[Graeme]

Not wanting to have the screws fall out and then perhaps not be able to get them back into place, I only loosened the screws enough to get about 2mm movement, which wasn't enough. I might have another go if 4mm does the trick.

[Mungus]

Don't know mate. When I click on the pic it comes up full screen for me, both on the forum and on the forum runner app.

Brett....

FWIW - right click on pic and open in new tab gave me a large pic.

[d3syd]

Pic of LED driving lights as requested. I have to start on the roof next :D.

Regards Trif.

They look impressive. Do they have much range or are they more of a spread beam?

It's interesting that the new L405 RRV looks like going to have LED high beam lights. If correctly focused, they can be devastatingly bright. I have a LED Lenser X21 torch with 7 LEDs and it is brighter than most car lights.

[trif]

They look impressive. Do they have much range or are they more of a spread beam?

It's interesting that the new L405 RRV looks like going to have LED high beam lights. If correctly focused, they can be devastatingly bright. I have a LED Lenser X21 torch with 7 LEDs and it is brighter than most car lights.

They not only look impressive but function well, although they are a recent addition and haven't been tested fully offroad. Like you l was drawn to the LED concept by having a couple of LED hunting torches and knowing how good they are. The great whites are marketed as a compromise between distance and spread, and l would agree. By way of comparison to the Lenser X21, each light is rated at approx. 6400 lumens. I have them positioned slightly divergent from each other to increase the side vision but still having enough overlap centrally. They are also smaller diameter than the Lightforce genesis HIDs l was looking at, and the LED appearance fits in with the cars OEM LEDs and the OL bar LEDs. The light is whiter than the OEM bi-xenons, l believe around 6000K. The website has a series of photos comparing halogen, HID and the various LED combinations.

Regards Trif.

[mikel]

I have a 2012 D4 with bi-xenon's which are possum spotters and am not happy like everybody else.
I would be interested if there is anybody that has a D4 with bi-xenon's that does NOT have this issue or is it across the board?

If so I will probably look at the LED D/L's in the near future.

Cheers
Mike L

[GrahamB]

Two months without a post. What's going on? Has anyone tried the spacer fix suggested by RSAChris? I've lodged a complaint with Fair Trading so we'll see where that takes us.

[Graeme]

I was only thinking today that I haven't tried the spacers yet.

[scarry]

I have the possum spotters as well:(

But the low beam is very good.

For driving in rural areas,something else is definitely needed.

I recon the D2a had better lights

[Beamin]

The hot glue solution has let go on one side after 2 years or so. Taking the opportunity to switch to a warmer colour HID in the high beam "filler" pockets where the halogens were - have ordered 4300K 50W HIDs instead of the 6500K 35W fitted last time, to be held in place by some sort of silicon stuff instead of hot glue.

Are the spacers readily available anywhere, or do they need to be fabricated? I couldn't find the post about those. Can you point me to it GrahamB?

[Graeme]

My globes with filed-down tabs don't require anything to hold them in place at an angle. However a tilted globe isn't nearly as good as a tilted reflector with a concentrated beam would be. If I can tilt the reflectors I'll definitely discard the driving lights to remove the air restriction although I'm inclined to do so for summer at least.

[Graeme]

Having had another look at slanting the bi-xenon assembly I wont be trying to fit the spacers. I think the only way to fit the spacers is to remove the lens and I'm not prepared to fiddle that much.

[Tombie]

Why is it in EVERY light thread I read...

Not one person ever gets out with a light meter and does some measurements?

[Beamin]

I meant to report back on this a while ago, so sorry for the delay.

After failure of the hot glue fix after about 2 years, I took the opportunity to have different HID bulbs put into the high-beam pockets. This time 50W 4200K instead of the first HIDs I tried which were 35W 6000K (too blue for my liking).

The sparky gave up on trying to set the new HID bulbs at an angle like the last ones, due to losing too much performance from the reflector, so they are now just sitting in the normal position without need for any spacers, hot glue, silicon, etc.

I'm actually happy with the performance now from this setup. There is definitely a wasted band of powerful light up in the trees, maybe 3m-6m up, but these new bulbs throw out so much light that there is now plenty bouncing around at ground level where it's needed and no real dark patches.

I love the new colour and find it much more natural, better contrast and easier to recognise everything in view, although there is a noticeable delay for them to warm up to their full power and colour, maybe 10 seconds or so. When they first come on they have a bit of a blue/white tint and enough power to see quite well, but you can then watch the light change colour and gain a lot more power as they warm up over the next 5-10 seconds, and it's worth the wait. A joy to drive with.

[GrahamB]

ACT Fair Trading raised my complaint with Jaguar Land Rover Australia Pty Ltd and a response was received from Mr Oliver Harding. Mr*Harding advised that Jaguar Land Rover Australia Pty Ltd stance on the matter has not changed. Surprise, surprise. Next step is to get some legal advise to determine if it is worthwhile to take JLRA to a tribunal and try to get some answers there.

[GrahamB]

I inquired with an automotive engineer what it would cost me to have my lights tested for compliance with ADRs. I didn't pursue this course when he told me it would cost about $1200.

[Graeme]

I expect the bi-xenons alone comply with ADRs for both low and high beam and therefore the halogens are superfluous and thus have no requirement to meet any standard. As I stated earlier, the halogens do not have an E approval number and the bi-xenons's E approval number is a single unit approval, not one that requires a fill-in light. The blinker has its own E approval number.

[Graeme]

I relented and fitted a 3.3mm thick nut as a spacer under 1 bi-xenon assembly top mounting (had no chance of slipping a nut under the other side) but only had 1 light done for a short 200m test last night. A test against a wall today showed the fill-in beam was on and below the bi-xenon high beam at about 10 metres which is a vast improvement on the original. The task was quite fiddly although not having an appropriate Torx screw-driver bit didn't help, having to use a Torx socket instead. I'll do a proper night drive before long. My modified HID globe mounting faces may need restoring to original if the beam now spreads too low.

[rufusking]

Having had another look at slanting the bi-xenon assembly I wont be trying to fit the spacers. I think the only way to fit the spacers is to remove the lens and I'm not prepared to fiddle that much.

So Graeme I assume you did remove the lense? Was it just a matter of carefully lifting those little tabs holding the lense in place?

[Graeme]

No I didn't remove the lenses. They are glued and require considerable heat to soften and all the tabs have to be undone at the same time. I tried this earlier but gave-up although a 2nd set of hands may help significantly.

I suggest using L-shaped 3-4mm thick brackets that can be positioned using long nosed pliers and would then expect to be able to fit such a bracket to both sides, not just the one near the fill-in light. I probably spent at least an hour on each light, mostly caused by dropping the Torx socket inside many times but was intent on accomplishing the task. A Torx bit on the end of a long magnetic screw-driver would have been so much better.

[Rollin over]

I must be one of the lucky ones on here, because my lights are great and I can see the Roo's on the side of the road from a long way off... Yes I do have some light above the road but I find this to be a blessing when the road becomes hilly.

Cheers