Gooney Bird

[d2dave]

I was with a group of younger people the other day and the topic switched to the Goony Bird Restaurant.

For those of you who are now wondering what I am talking about the Goony Bird is a DC3 airplane which has been converted to a restaurant which does a scenic flight around Melbourne.

I happened to mention that it had a crash landing a few years back.

I tried googling this but found nothing. Does any one here remember this and any details?

Dave.

[p38arover]

Gooney Bird.

Much easier it get a Google hit when you spell it correctly! :p

[3toes]

Does anyone know of the origin of the name 'Gooney Bird'? Am hopeing there is someone on here who may have some knowledge of this and the name Biscuit Bomber.

When this name for the DC3 started appearing in the media in the eighties remember my grand father saying he had never heard it before. To him and his mates in New Guinea they had been called 'Biscuit Bombers'. Was Biscuit Bomber a term that was something in local use where he was rather than the general term he thought it was?

[loanrangie]

I have always know a Gooney bird to be some kind of prop powered aircraft but cant remember why, never been on the restaurant so maybe it was just a known Melbourne attraction ?

[Disco44]

The old DC3 was the supply plane for the Pacific Campaign (WW2).It could fly low and parachute in supplies..from ammo to tucker..hence the name " biscuit Bomber " After the war they did stirling service with TAA and Ansett on outback runs...commonly known as the "milk Runs" They were not pressurised and flew around 7000 feet.The name "gooney" was given to them by the yanks..I do not know its origin
John.

[StephenF10]

The flying restaurant is VH-OVM, operated by Shortstop Jet Charter. Here is a history of the aircraft taken from the Aussie Airliners site:

Construction completed at the Oaklahoma City plant - April 1945
Built as a Douglas C-47B-30-DK
Delivered to the USAAF - April 21, 1945
Allocated U.S. serial number 44-76770
Arrived Brisbane for use by 5th Air Force - April 1945
Assigned to R.A.A.F. under 'lend-lease' agreement, becoming A65-98
Operated under radio callsign 'VHRFO'
Operated extensively from Butterworth, Malaysia between 1964 and 1975
Operated under radio callsign 'VMHJZ'
Transferred to the RAAF Apprentice Training School at Wagga Wagga
Transferred to the RAAF Museum at Point Cook
Entered onto the Australian Aircraft Register as VH-JXD - July 3, 1989
Registered to RAAF Museum, Point Cook, Victoria
Registered to G. Milne, Bright, Victoria - November 1, 1989
Sold to Shortstop Aviation
Registered to Shortstop Jet Charter - November 1, 1989
Reregistered as VH-OVM - June 20, 1990
Registered to Shortstop Jet Charter Pty Ltd - December 20, 2005

No mention of a crash.

Stephen.

[d2dave]

Stephen,
I am sure it had some sort of crash landing or it could have been an emergency landing which at the time sparked another call for Essendon airport to be closed.

Dave.

[Disco44]

The old DC3 was the supply plane for the Pacific Campaign (WW2).It could fly low and parachute in supplies..from ammo to tucker..hence the name " biscuit Bomber " After the war they did stirling service with TAA and Ansett on outback runs...commonly known as the "milk Runs" They were not pressurised and flew around 7000 feet.The name "gooney" was given to them by the yanks..I do not know its origin
John.
Further to this post of mine up at Cape York is the wreck of one that crashed there killing all the crew , this one went down in 1945.Of the 1000's that flew very few crashes happened..they had a very good record.They were also used by the yanks for the one and only parachute drop in New Guinea I think it was to link up with the Aussie troops re-taking Rabual.
John.

[p38arover]

A gooney bird is an albatross and the name was applied during WW2. The name Dakota was the British name for the military DC3, i.e., the C47.

[JDNSW]

The old DC3 was the supply plane for the Pacific Campaign (WW2).It could fly low and parachute in supplies..from ammo to tucker..hence the name " biscuit Bomber " After the war they did stirling service with TAA and Ansett on outback runs...commonly known as the "milk Runs" They were not pressurised and flew around 7000 feet.The name "gooney" was given to them by the yanks..I do not know its origin
John.

Not exactly "old" during the war -they remained in production until 1945. Gooney Bird (American name for a type of gull, I think) was a term used to refer to them by the American servicemen during the war, and copied widely after that.

Originally designed as the DST for overnight transcontinental sleeper services in the USA, it entered service in 1936. The DC-3 for seated passengers soon followed into service. It was widely adopted in the service of virtually all combatant nations in WW2, being manufactured in the USA, in the Soviet Union under licence, and Japan without the benefit of a licence. Total production exceeded 13,000, probably still more than any airliner ever.

In military service it received various designations depending on exact configuration, the most common being C-47 in US service and Dakota in British and Commonwealth (including Australian) service.

As late as the mid seventies the majority of scheduled airline services round the world were operated by DC-3s.

The DC-3 was not only reliable and safe, but was the first airliner that could reasonably be operated at a profit without a subsidy.

Seated up to 36 passengers, although I don't remember Australian operators running more than about 25. Despite its excellent safety record, it did not meet safety requirements even at its introduction for engine out climb rate nor for passenger evacuation, and operates under a dispensation.

Still in military service in a number of countries into the 1990s, what drove it out of airline service was its extensive use as a gunship in Vietnam, which severely depleted the world stock of (cheap disposals) spare parts. The relatively poor availability of avgas in recent years has added to difficulties in operating them.

John

[olbod]

Me and a mate ran away from home in 1951, we went to Brisbane.
After a few days we were running out of money so we flew back to Sydney in a DC3. My first experience flying. Loved it, from then on I was hooked.

[kaa45]

The Biscuit Bomber was a local term originating in the New Guinea campaign during WW2. Air resupply was something new and thought to be impractical and unneeded by Blamey and MacArthur. The first few drops that were done, no parachute was involved. They flew in low and shoved the boxes out. most being smashed or lost in the jungle. Very poor logistics

Danny

[p38arover]

I watched a DVD on the DC3 last week. It was interesting watching the Biscuit Bomber drops in PNG They were remarkably accurate in the video.

[p38arover]

Me and a mate ran away from home in 1951, we went to Brisbane.
After a few days we were running out of money so we flew back to Sydney in a DC3. My first experience flying. Loved it, from then on I was hooked.


When Elisabeth came to visit me in Ceduna in 1970, she flew from Adelaide in a DC3. She said there were a number of air sick people on board. She like the flight and all the take-offs and landings at intermediate dirt strips.

[olbod]

When Elisabeth came to visit me in Ceduna in 1970, she flew from Adelaide in a DC3. She said there were a number of air sick people on board. She like the flight and all the take-offs and landings at intermediate dirt strips.


Yep, I think they are one of the best aircraft ever built.

I would love to afford to own one.

[austastar]

I knew the DC3s in RAAF Butterworth as Gooneys in 1967, they were part of the VIP fleet.
There is a book called something like 'DC3 a wonderful aeroplane' or similar that I read years ago telling some of its exploits and adventures. (Googled it but nothing came up)

One story I can tell involved a flight with a couple of local 'dignitaries' where the pilot came back aft to get a coffee from the urn with another of the flight crew.
They were then joined by another officer from the cockpit who walked down the aisle feeding out two lengths of string as he walked.
He then passed the ends of the two pieces of string to one of the 'guests' to 'just hold these and keep it steady for me will you please?'
The poor chap must have been a complete technophope, he held those strings like his life depended on them in total fear.
Yes there were some repercussions for causing embarrassment to a 'dignitary', but every one else thought it a great joke.
cheers

[cripesamighty]

A saw a classic on the back page of Australian Aviation some years back. When the RAAF were still using the Dakota's it used to be funny for other pilots who were riding in the back to have some fun with the pilots up front flying the plane. The pilots who were passengers would all get up and go to the back of the aircraft prior to takeoff and stay there until pilots up front trimmed it to fly level when they got a bit higher up. Unbenownst to them the pilots in the back would then run to the front after it was trimmed for "level" flight upsetting the attitude of the aircraft. This would be done several times making the DC-3 porpoise up and down and annoy the guys up front.

One time the pilots up front got their own back. The senior pilot tied a bolt to a bit of string and fed it out the window so it made a racket as it was banging on the aluminium skin outside the aircraft. He then shut down the engine on that side. After about 15 minutes of letting the pilots in the back stew with one engine shut down, they fed the string out the window on the other side......

[Bigbjorn]

As a youth I flew back and forth Brisbane-Winton a few times in DC3's Locally known as the tin crow. I forget how many stops on the way but the trip was something like 9-10 hours. Better than two days on the steam train, or two days on the goat tracks in a car. No bitumen after Dalby then. The safety Nazis of today would have fits. Cargo loaded in the aisle, like crates of milk, insulated bags of ice cream, once even a truck diff housing, mail bags under seats etc.

[JDNSW]

One of the reasons for the longevity of the DC3 is that owing to shortcomings in the design process, and a fortuitous choice of the alloy used for the structure, the airframe is far stronger than required, and is almost totally proof against fatigue.

DC-3s have flown successfully with much more powerful engines and have been grossly overloaded by accident, and got away with it.

It was an enlarged version of the earlier DC-2 (which came second in the 1934 MacRobertson Melbourne Centenary Air Race from London, behind a specially designed DH88 Comet racer). During the evacuation of parts of China ahead of the Japanese a so-called DC 2 1/2, a DC3, with the shorter outer panel of a DC2 replacing one damaged by bombing, succeeded in flying about 40 passengers to Burma.

I seem to remember that in the early seventies, a DC-3 being used for crop dusting in NZ made a successful landing after losing most of one wing outboard of the engine in a midair collision.

John

[Disco44]

As a youth I flew back and forth Brisbane-Winton a few times in DC3's Locally known as the tin crow. I forget how many stops on the way but the trip was something like 9-10 hours. Better than two days on the steam train, or two days on the goat tracks in a car. No bitumen after Dalby then. The safety Nazis of today would have fits. Cargo loaded in the aisle, like crates of milk, insulated bags of ice cream, once even a truck diff housing, mail bags under seats etc.

Yes Brian,that was where I had my "baptism" in the DC3 on the milk run from Blackall to Brisbane.I think the flight originated in Mt Isa and stopped everywhere on the trip to pick up passengers etc and off load at the same time.The fokker friendship took over from the DC3 ,it flew higher and faster and was pressurised making the trip a lot more " user friendly". I remember getting air sick once in a DC3 in turbulence.They could not fly high enough to get over it.
The modern health & safety mob would have black fits if they saw what they carried and how they carried them but we all survived ,I cannot remember one coming down in all the years they did that 'milk Run.I could be wrong.
John.

[Bigbjorn]

Yes Brian,that was where I had my "baptism" in the DC3 on the milk run from Blackall to Brisbane.I think the flight originated in Mt Isa and stopped everywhere on the trip to pick up passengers etc and off load at the same time.The fokker friendship took over from the DC3 ,it flew higher and faster and was pressurised making the trip a lot more " user friendly". I remember getting air sick once in a DC3 in turbulence.They could not fly high enough to get over it.
The modern health & safety mob would have black fits if they saw what they carried and how they carried them but we all survived ,I cannot remember one coming down in all the years they did that 'milk Run.I could be wrong.
John.

A Viscount, I think, got dropped and broken near Winton. I can't recall a DC3 doing the same.

I can't recall how this one worked. At one stage, sixties, plane crews used to overnight in Longreach. Maybe this was a different flight to the Brisbane-Mt. Isa milk run.

The cockpit crew seemed to think they had a "droight de seigneur" with the hosties and after sufficient drink was taken at Ivy McNally's Welcome Home Hotel sometimes hoisted one over the shoulder and off to the boudoir.

[Disco44]

A Viscount, I think, got dropped and broken near Winton. I can't recall a DC3 doing the same.

I can't recall how this one worked. At one stage, sixties, plane crews used to overnight in Longreach. Maybe this was a different flight to the Brisbane-Mt. Isa milk run.

The cockpit crew seemed to think they had a "droight de seigneur" with the hosties and after sufficient drink was taken at Ivy McNally's Welcome Home Hotel sometimes hoisted one over the shoulder and off to the boudoir.

Yes Brian that Viscount was en-route to Darwin and went down near Winton.The only other I can recall was the Fokker Friendship that went down in the sea off Mackay.It had a lot of school kids on it going home for the holidays.It think it was in 1962.

[JDNSW]

Yes Brian that Viscount was en-route to Darwin and went down near Winton.The only other I can recall was the Fokker Friendship that went down in the sea off Mackay.It had a lot of school kids on it going home for the holidays.It think it was in 1962.

From memory, the Viscount was a V700, and the engine had been assembled with an incorrect plug in the auxiliary drive housing with no vent. When a bearing overheated it blew an oil seal and lost lubricant in the drive housing, with the resulting heat buildup starting an uncontrollable fire in the magnesium housing which spread to the fuel feed to the engine. The fire spread to the wing tank which was almost empty and the resulting explosion caused the main spar to fail. The aircraft was at that stage at low level, apparently intending an emergency landing on a claypan. There were no survivors.

As a result a modification was mandated so that the auxilliary drive shaft would shear if lubricant failed.

John

[slug_burner]

I was with a group of younger people the other day and the topic switched to the Goony Bird Restaurant.

For those of you who are now wondering what I am talking about the Goony Bird is a DC3 airplane which has been converted to a restaurant which does a scenic flight around Melbourne.

I happened to mention that it had a crash landing a few years back.

I tried googling this but found nothing. Does any one here remember this and any details?

Dave.

This might be the accident you were thinking of:

03 Dec 1993

"The flight was planned as a night charter dinner flight over Melbourne. On board the De Havilland DH-104 were the pilot, a dinner hostess and eight passengers.

After carrying out engine runups and pre-takeoff checks, including selecting 20 of flap, the pilot initiated takeoff from Essendon Airport runway 17, some 23 minutes before last light. Wind conditions were light and variable. Just as take-off safety speed was attained, somewhere between liftoff and 50 ft, the right engine lost power and the aircraft yawed to the right. The pilot momentarily assessed the problem as a partial engine failure and selected the landing gear up, but the landing gear failed to retract. However, by recycling the gear selector he was then able to successfully retract the landing gear. By this time the airspeed had decayed to a point well below take-off safety speed, and continued decreasing to the minimum control speed (air). In order to maintain directional control the pilot reduced power on the left engine, but did not manage to raise the flaps or feather the right propeller before the aircraft crashed into a residential area adjoining the aerodrome. About one minute had elapsed from initiation of takeoff until the accident.

Investigation revealed that the vertical drive shaft, which drives the right engine fuel control unit, had failed in torsional overload when the geared fuel pump drive shaft in the fuel control unit had seized on its surrounding bush. Following the vertical drive shaft failure, the right engine failed due to fuel starvation.

Analysis of DH-104 performance indicated that, at the time of the right engine failure, it was possible for the aircraft to achieve a positive rate of climb, assuming that the engine failure drills were performed promptly and correctly, and proceeded without interruption. However, when the landing gear failed to retract on the first attempt, any possibility of the pilot being able to attain the required aircraft performance was lost. As a result, he was probably forced to abandon completing the emergency procedures in order to maintain control of the aircraft."

The full report is available from here (http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/1993/aair/aair199304023.aspx)