Some cops are no fun. LOL

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

Went for a drive this evening down Narrewarren Road Narrewarren heading south, I noticed a guy sitting in a park near the road side, He had a deck cheair set up and was sucking on a couple of coldies. He also pointed to a sign he had planted on the road side grass strip. It said "SPEED CAMERA" and he waved to me as I drove past.
A couple of hundred metres further down was a car parked with a speed camera.
On the return trip the local Divisional van was heading to wards him to spoil his fun. I noticed his wife had joined in. They started packing up when the police car arrived and were decamping.
This bloke seemed to had had a great time doing what he was doing and the Cops had to turn up and spoil his fun.:( I also noticed he was constantly taking pictures of the speed camera car up the road.
I must say in 43deg heat he was a brave man.

[Disco44]

I have no problem with what he was doing but in how many states will he get away with it without getting booked himself.In Queensland they take a dim view even flashing of headlights is frowned upon.How do I know I got booked once for doing it.
John.

[Bushie]

Flashing headlights is pretty much frowned upon in NSW, but booking some one for warning of a speed camera is proof positive that the agenda is revenue raising, as the 'end result', getting people to slow down would have been achieved.


Martyn

[Bigbjorn]

In Qld. he may be charged with obstructing police operations. This is the charge for flashing headlights as a warning of a revenue trap.

Years ago when Qld. police had those small desk sized Fairey radars, they regularly set up behind footpath shrubs on a downhill run on Boundary Rd. Camp Hill. The householder cut down the shrubs which is naughty as the footpath vegetation is City Council property. Next time, the wallopers moved downhill a couple of doors and set up there. The quite elderly gentleman in the house went out and put his sprinklers on to water his nature strip.

[loanrangie]

I hate these bloody sneaky speed camera's, i'm all for catching hoons doing 100 in a 50/60 zone but a brightly coloured highly visible patrol car is the best deterrent.When they hide and use a 3rd party company you know its revenue raising and not road safety, all they catch is the average punter doing a few k's over the limit .

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

I hate these bloody sneaky speed camera's, i'm all for catching hoons doing 100 in a 50/60 zone but a brightly coloured highly visible patrol car is the best deterrent.When they hide and use a 3rd party company you know its revenue raising and not road safety, all they catch is the average punter doing a few k's over the limit .
Yes I've always been pro police presence, but I find even now patroling Divisional vans turn a blind eye to a lot of things. Bald tyres and faulty lighting are not worth the effort of the officers getting out of their cars it seems. Policing seems to have changed.
As for the guy with the sign, if there are no charges laid for obstruction, I reckon they might have got him for drinking in a public place.

[Landy110]

I'm sorry but I disagree with most of the comments above.
Why is it that we all hate thieves and vandals and reckon the cops should be pummeling them into the dirt but when it comes to protecting us and our families from speeding hoons we get all precious about "revenue raising" and all the associated crap arguments.
A well defined police car deters speeders when it is visible. A hidden speed camera deters speeders anywhere and everywhere.

There is no such thing as a revenue raising speed camera. They are randomly and or fixed placed donation boxes, any one of which gives YOU the opportunity to make a donation to the state government.

The Cops aren't in control of raising the revenue, the Government isn't in control of raising the revenue. YOU ARE IN CONTROL.

If you make a decission to speed and you get caught, TOUGH. It was your choice. No-one made you speed, don't blame the Government or the cops. THEY ARE THERE TRYING TO STOP BLOODY IDIOTS FROM KILLING MY FAMILY.

Do you know there is a speed limit?
Do you know there are signs that state that limit?
Do you know there are fines and demerit points for breaking that limit?

It's your decission, stop blaming everyone else and SUCK IT UP or slow down!

Steve.

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

I would like more police presence on the roads instead of fixed speed or moving cameras. A hoon speeding will continue to speed until he gets the penalty notice in the mail. That could be a couple of weeks. A hoon caught on the spot might think about his actions immediately. Cameras only catch idiots at certain points, if they know they are there they will behave for that small time. A camera will not remove vehicles that are unfit for road travel.
A camera will not catch un licenced drivers, a camera will not catch drink drivers. A camera will not catch dangerous drivers who weave with speed in and out of traffic, cut off other road users. A camera will not catch road rage.
Only roving police car patrols can help in this regard. What ever happened to the TOG? when I was younger, it was common to be pulled over for driver and vehicle checks.

I actually eported a car full of hoons the other day. Whilst shopping at a shopping centre my family and myself had hoons in a commodore doing donuts in the carpark, broad daylight and within 20 mteres of out car and us. Apart from choking on the tyre smoke that was pea soup thick, they sped off. I noticed he was a P plater. A Police station is next door.
I reported it under the dob in a hoon. The officer behind the desk took the details and rego but couldn't assure me that it would be followed up.
So whats the point then!.

As my sig says "It's not worth complaining!" WHY BECAUSE NOTHING EVER GETS DONE ABOUT IT! Yet every week these hoons kill them selves on the road

[THE BOOGER]

In Cabramatta to stop the drug dealing the cops targeted fair evaders at the rail station it worked, so using the same logic with hoons would be to book every body who has bald tyres, changes lanes without a blinker drives with spotties on (fog lights) all the time no p plates etc, they could book 3 times as many drivers for smaller fines but hopfully stop accidents before they happen:D

[cal415]

Well i agree its a revenue raising thing, They setup in areas where there are speed changes, on down hill runs, etc even the equiptment they use can be toyed with by them to get higher readings when they get bored.... I do agree they should be booking people doing stupid speeds especially around built up areas but when it comes to small offences and booking people for a few km over the speed limit thats just rediculous, alot of cops are just bullies in a uniform looking for someone to screw with.

As for the stationary camera's theres been many cases where they have been shown to be inaccurate and 100's of fines withdrawn, which makes you wonder how many people have been fined by mistake and just paid them rather then question them.

You should all look in to the guidelines they are supposed to follow for speed camera/radar/lidar use and how they are very inaccurate in alot of situations, Just to give you an idea, they shouldnt be used on bends or hills due to accuracy, they shouldnt be used in speed change areas, They need to take atleast a 3 second reading on your vehicle, They are only supposed to be used in area's classed as "Black spot" areas, etc, a quote fronthe Standard Speed Enforcement Operations Manual “Speed cameras, Lidars, and mobile radar shall not be used at any location or in a mode that would give rise to criticism or a complaint that the operation is only a means of raising government revenue”…..

Im sure theres been 1000s of fines issued to people who wernt speeding at all, putting more money in the governments pockets rather then ours... sounds like revenue raising to me for sure, perhaps we could call them speeding taxes?

[Basil135]

Well i agree its a revenue raising thing, They setup in areas where there are speed changes, on down hill runs, etc even the equiptment they use can be toyed with by them to get higher readings when they get bored.... I do agree they should be booking people doing stupid speeds especially around built up areas but when it comes to small offences and booking people for a few km over the speed limit thats just rediculous, alot of cops are just bullies in a uniform looking for someone to screw with.

As for the stationary camera's theres been many cases where they have been shown to be inaccurate and 100's of fines withdrawn, which makes you wonder how many people have been fined by mistake and just paid them rather then question them.

You should all look in to the guidelines they are supposed to follow for speed camera/radar/lidar use and how they are very inaccurate in alot of situations, Just to give you an idea, they shouldnt be used on bends or hills due to accuracy, they shouldnt be used in speed change areas, They need to take atleast a 3 second reading on your vehicle, They are only supposed to be used in area's classed as "Black spot" areas, etc, a quote fronthe Standard Speed Enforcement Operations Manual “Speed cameras, Lidars, and mobile radar shall not be used at any location or in a mode that would give rise to criticism or a complaint that the operation is only a means of raising government revenue”…..

Im sure theres been 1000s of fines issued to people who wernt speeding at all, putting more money in the governments pockets rather then ours... sounds like revenue raising to me for sure, perhaps we could call them speeding taxes?

As Landy110 said - "It is your choice to donate"

At what speed over the posted limit should someone be booked???

Each of us is in control of our vehicle when driving. That means driving to the conditions within the laws governing that area at that time.

So, if it is downhill, then you lift your right foot & remain within the posted speed limit. Not that hard really.

Tell me, how far does a car travel in 10 seconds travelling at 65km /hr as opposed to 60km / hr? The braking distances are greater, the reaction time is greater.... The impact is harder....

Nothing annoys me more than people who get on their soap box & say that speed & red light cameras do nothing to reduce the road toll & only raise revenue for the government. Well, they are wrong.

Yes, the government receives the revenue from idiots that speed or run red lights. But, the offender also receives demerit points. Be an idiot for long enough, and collect a enough of those, and you get to take the bus for a few months.

Everyone would like to see more police on our roads. That is, until they get pulled over for a random breath test & vehicle check. Then the "bloody coppers" are picking on them. Especially if they are then defected for a "trivial" matter. But that is another argument.

In SA, the mobile cameras are operated by un-sworn officers. This means that they are not taking the place of a sworn police officer, and have no powers of arrest or reporting greater than a normal citizen.

Until someone can come up with a better system, cameras are going to be a fact of life. Deal with it.

Yes, they will be wrong on occasion. Yes there will people that pay fines they probably didn't have to. These all make the news or Today Tonight or ACA.

But ever stop to think how many fines did not get issued due to other reasons? Maybe the camera was faulty. Maybe there were 2 vehicles in the frame at the same time. Maybe the number plate couldn't be read properly. Those stories never make the news. Why? Cause it is more fun to scream the "It's only revenue raising" chant again.

Simple rule to live by - Don't do the crime, don't pay the fine. If you don't want to be booked for speeding, then don't speed.

I want to get home alive tonight, and I want my family to get home too. If they were taken out by someone who thought it was safe to go 5km / hr over the limit, then no court in the country would convict me of the crime that I am likely to commit against that person.

[isuzutoo-eh]

Well said Landy 110

Remember 'Silent Cops', those round metal things that were embedded in the road at T-intersections to stop drivers cutting the corner?
On their corner, they worked.
Speed cameras are silent cops too. And in the immediate area they are placed, they work. I know they have me sh...scared of copping a fine or losing my license so I drive more sedately when I think there is a police presence nearby. I can't afford to donate.

Cameras are probably cheaper than hiring a two man crew to sit in a souped up cop car for a year. And yep, they often pay for themselves and some more new cameras in fines accrued.

More police presence is definately justified, but apparently can't be afforded. Maybe a camera in every schoolzone, every long straight stretch, around every bend, on every street would mean the rest of the police force could target other forms of dangerous driving and vehicle condition and we'd all be a little safer?

[MickS]

This topic has been the subject of a few threads on this forum. It always manages to divide the members. But as basil said, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

We all "speed creep". That is, in a 60 zone, you go 64, in a 70 zone - you go 74 etc etc. Why? Because we think, "it's only a few k's, won't make any difference..." Until you are in a 110 zone, and you creep to 119 or so. I've lost count of the number of collisions I've attended and seen the carnage that speeding over the limit has caused. I've watched helplessly as people have died in my arms as a result of these collisions.

Unfortunately, you (and I mean that in the collective sense) may think you are a good driver..and it may well be the case. But the bloke in the car next to you who has just gone onto his blacks, yet only drove on weekends because he can't afford to drive to work - thinks he can too. So he speeds. And then a pedestrian steps out in front of him from between parked cars...or he fails to see the stop sign...in the end, it's your choice and your responsibility..if you get caught, tough.

[cal415]

As Landy110 said - "It is your choice to donate"

And the people who are fined due to inacurate readings?
Sure theres 1000's of people who are speeding and driving like dicks on the roads but it doesnt mean its fair for those doing the right thing and coping a fine.


At what speed over the posted limit should someone be booked???

As for how far over the limit you should be booked at, i really dont think most cars are that accurate speedo wise, isnt it something like a 10% difference to actual speed before your car would be deemed unroadworthy? when you hear of people getting fined for things like 64 in a 60 zone this just sounds exesive!

[p38arover]

Both our Subaru Foresters indicate 118 km/h when doing 110 km/h by the GPS.

The P38A is spot on.

[Basil135]

And the people who are fined due to inacurate readings?
Sure theres 1000's of people who are speeding and driving like dicks on the roads but it doesnt mean its fair for those doing the right thing and coping a fine.

As for how far over the limit you should be booked at, i really dont think most cars are that accurate speedo wise, isnt it something like a 10% difference to actual speed before your car would be deemed unroadworthy? when you hear of people getting fined for things like 64 in a 60 zone this just sounds exesive!


Copied from http://www.trafficlaw.com.au

Prior to July 2006 the ADR allowed ±10%. This means that cars sold new prior to 1 July 2006 could comply with the ADR even if the speedo under-read by 10%. Despite this being theoretically possible, due to the testing procedures and the reasons stated below it is unlikely to occur in practice.

The reason the ADR are relevent to the debate is that some people argue that if the ADR allows cars to have speedos that under-read by up to 10%, then surely our road laws must also allow 10% tolerance. Therefore, the argument goes, we should not be fined if we travel at 110kmh in a 100kmh zone because we are travelling within the tolerances allowed by the ADR. Such a situation would be quiet generous to motorists and would make it impossible for anyone to allege that they were mislead by their inaccurate speedo.

One problem with this argument is that it ignores reality. It assumes that speedos are under-reading by 10% when the truth is the vast majority of speedos over-read by about 3%. So in effect, it is allowing the majority of motorists the opportunity to drive at 10% above the speed limit. If the speed limits are there for a reason, then they would all need to be reduced by 10% to counter the effect of motorists increasing their speed above it.

If a motorist has a speedo that under-reads by any amount, then that person could try to argue that they have a defence of "honest and reasonable belief" in a state of facts which if true would make their conduct innocent. (See Proudman v. Dayman). Even if it were available, a Proudman v. Dayman defence is not dependant on the existence of the Australian Design Rule specification. A court is concerned with what your speedo actually displays, not what the ADR says it could display. If your speedo under-reads and there is no ADR speedo specification in existence, your defence would be exactly the same. The amount of tolerance specified in the ADR is irrelevant to any defence at law. Any driver who relies on the old ADR for their belief that their speedo was accurate would probably fail because the old ADR does not require a speedo to be accurate. It allowed it to be out by up to 10% so you should know it is out by 10%. And if you want to argue that the ADR is a "law" which applies to the State of Victoria, then you also need to argue that ignorance of the law is no excuse, and therefore you are deemed to have known that your speedo was up to 10% under-reading and you had no basis for assuming it was correctly displaying your speed at the time of the alleged offence.

If having an incorrect speedo were a defence to speeding then all you need to do is ensure your speedo is wrong and you will never have to pay a fine. If the inaccuracy of your speedo is merely a theoretical possibility, then that just turns a weak argument into a hopeless one because you are not addressing what in fact happened to you on the date of the offence.

In short, the speedo is more than likely going to say you are going faster than you are.

Basically - No Defence.

[cal415]

so basically you would be happy to see people booked for 101 in a 100 zone?

[dullbird]

many speedo's read faster than they are going they are sold like that from factory. but a car would never be sold from factory with a speedo reading slower than your going, its illegal. a speedo can over read, but cannot under read (did i get that the right way around:D)

I understand where Cal is coming from there have been cases where a mobil gun had proven in some cases to be very inacurate. therefore people would be getting unfairly booked.

its easy to say you kill my family comments due to the speed, but I can honestly say I have seen more dangerous driving in the 150k a day I do by people that are NOT speeding it bloody frightening what some people do on the roads.

Speeding is dangerous more so because people that tend to speed have the mentality to take more risks..then increasing the chances of having an acident.

[Basil135]

so basically you would be happy to see people booked for 101 in a 100 zone?

No. That is being pedantic beyond the realms of reality. I don't know of anyone that has been charged with going 1km/hr over the posted speed limit.

The whole point of my argument is that speed detection devices are there for a reason, and that reason is not to solely raise revenue.



many speedo's read faster than they are going they are sold like that from factory. but a car would never be sold from factory with a speedo reading slower than your going, its illegal. a speedo can over read, but cannot under read (did i get that the right way around:D)

Yes, you got it right. And it has been proven that as tyres & mechanicals wear, this amount of over-read actually increases.



Even without a speedo, if I am passing lots of other cars in traffic, then I am not driving to the conditions. If the vast majority of traffic is doing 50km/hr, and I am doing 60, who is more at risk of causing or being involved in an accident.

[dullbird]

No. That is being pedantic beyond the realms of reality. I don't know of anyone that has been charged with going 1km/hr over the posted speed limit.

The whole point of my argument is that speed detection devices are there for a reason, and that reason is not to solely raise revenue.




Yes, you got it right. And it has been proven that as tyres & mechanicals wear, this amount of over-read actually increases.



Even without a speedo, if I am passing lots of other cars in traffic, then I am not driving to the conditions.
If the vast majority of traffic is doing 50km/hr, and I am doing 60, who is more at risk of causing or being involved in an accident.


funny you should say that as when i'm doing 110 to work no joke I'm the slowest thing on the road!! so because I'm now not keeping up with the traffic does that make me the risk?

[Basil135]

funny you should say that as when i'm doing 110 to work no joke I'm the slowest thing on the road!! so because I'm now not keeping up with the traffic does that make me the risk?

Potentially, yes.

And in SA at least, I believe that it is a chargeable offence. Mind you, the police would have to prove that your actions in deliberately driving significantly slower than the current conditions allowed caused a dangerous environment.

When I used to live in Vic, many years ago, it wasn't uncommon for the traffic to do 110 - 115 on the freeway, and more often than not, there was a traffic car sitting in the median strip under a bridge watching it all go by.

[dullbird]

Potentially, yes.


And in SA at least, I believe that it is a chargeable offence. Mind you, the police would have to prove that your actions in deliberately driving significantly slower than the current conditions allowed caused a dangerous environment.When I used to live in Vic, many years ago, it wasn't uncommon for the traffic to do 110 - 115 on the freeway, and more often than not, there was a traffic car sitting in the median strip under a bridge watching it all go by.

i know but this I guess us where it gets tricky as I was doing the speed limit but i'm the potential hazard...

as for the 110-115 the cars on the freeway are doing 120+ at my neck of the woods. the only time you get to a vehicle doing 110 is when you come across trucks or something that looks like it shouldn't be on the road fullstop.

I must admit it does iritate me when I'm doing 110 and I have red P plates zoom past me doing god knows what speed...and they are only supposed to be doing 90:mad:

[cal415]

No. That is being pedantic beyond the realms of reality. I don't know of anyone that has been charged with going 1km/hr over the posted speed limit.

The whole point of my argument is that speed detection devices are there for a reason, and that reason is not to solely raise revenue.

Pedantic... hmm ok.

yes, not to "Soley" raise revenue, but perhaps primarily...

[Basil135]

Now speeding "P" platers - that's another whole thread on it's own.:eek:

[cal415]

That i will agree on,, speeding P platers really **** me off, little experience, little common sense and big attitude is not good on the roads.... i seem to be a magnet for P platers, i have had countless run in's with P platers over the years...

[Basil135]

I have 2 theories when it comes to P platers...

1. If you need to get somewhere fast, follow a P plater in a ricer

2. When they are lining me up at the lights - go for it sunshine. To me, its a couple of points. To you, it's your licence...



DISCLAIMER

This post should not be read as to me condoning speeding. It is a sad state that some P platers disengage their brain when they engage 1st gear.

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

Now speeding "P" platers - that's another whole thread on it's own.:eek:
They also get taught how to hang there arm out the drivers side whilst doing a turn, and they encourage their passengers to put their feet out the window or on the dashboard.
So much for safety of not having any body parts protruding out od a vehicle. They seem to think they are in a lounge chair at home, and don't realise that they are driving a lethal weapon

[p38arover]

i know but this I guess us where it gets tricky as I was doing the speed limit but i'm the potential hazard...

as for the 110-115 the cars on the freeway are doing 120+ at my neck of the woods. the only time you get to a vehicle doing 110 is when you come across trucks or something that looks like it shouldn't be on the road fullstop.

I must admit it does iritate me when I'm doing 110 and I have red P plates zoom past me doing god knows what speed...and they are only supposed to be doing 90:mad:

Have you checked your speedo against a GPS?

[p38arover]

Potentially, yes.

And in SA at least, I believe that it is a chargeable offence. Mind you, the police would have to prove that your actions in deliberately driving significantly slower than the current conditions allowed caused a dangerous environment.

I recall a few years back, a Series I driver being booked in Qld for travelling too slowly on the motorway.

[dullbird]

yes ron 118 on speedo is 110 on gps....

the disco is spot on due to tyres

[woody]

After reading all the replies posted here I am sure glad That I live in a State that looks after my safety and the safety of all road users by conducting a safety audit of a major arterial road.

After many months the result was that the condition of the road was sub standard.... so did they upgrade the road ?

Of course not that would cost money.....they reduced the speed limit to what they deemed a safe speed and to ensure our safety they put a mobile donation tin at random spots along the roads length so that we could feel good about helping to pay for the roads upgrade.

also interesting is the fact that fixed donation boxes are not placed at accident blackspots again for our safety

I may be old fashioned but if I do something wrong I cop it on the chin and get on with life, then again I grew up in the era when I didn't worry about the Copper on the beat giving me a clip around the ear or the boot up the bum (that was his job)...it was the floggin the old man gave me when he found out. :angel:

[AKW]

I was booked 5 or6 times for 101km/h when speed limiters
first come in for trucks. With a limiter you could do 100,
without one you could only do 80, but they only pulled you up over
100 then it was 11k over and the next fine level.

I do not use a gps to check speedos.
Time over distance.
The distance in metres. divided by.. time in seconds x 3.6 = your speed
eg 3000m by 104sec x 3.6 = 103.8kmh.

Any time i drive a new vehicle any distance i check it then i know what
i'm doing.

Andrew

ps that is what the police use from the air.

[mike_ie]

As a foreigner to Australia, I'm going to chip in here with my own opinion, simply because it's been the topic of discussion between me and my workmates over many's the after work beer.

There are two categories of police officers here, from what I see. Police officers, and traffic police. Where traffic police differ from the regular police officers, is that they either aren't allowed to, or choose not to, use discretion when it comes to dealing with motorists actions on the roads here. Instead, they work on a quota based system, where they have to raise a certain amount of revenue per month. And, like it or not, the easiest way to do this is to sit at the side of the road in a hidden location, and book someone doing 65 in a 60 zone. This isn't an "I'm against the Man" rant, it's simply the reality of the situation. And while yes, it's easy say that we shouldn't creep over the speed limit, it's not always a case of a heavy foot. Where my speedo says I'm doing 100kph, my GPS (and a radar speed indicator on the way to Melbourne) says I'm doing 109/110 kph. When I switch on the cruise control in my girlfriends car in an active measure to not go over the speed limit, the car will go from 60kph to 69kph when it hits a downhill stretch over the course of five or six seconds. And if I was watching my speedo to the point where I could tell what it was doing every 5 seconds, I wouldn't make it a kilometre from home without hitting someone.

To give two contrasting examples, when I first arrived here, it took a certain amount of getting used to the differences in the rules of the road here, and more specifically, getting used to the fact that a single house, 200m in off the road, constituted a town, and speed limits dropped accordingly :) Driving up to Leigh Creek one night early last year, I sat the Defender on 100kph in a 110 zone, after all, it was night time and I was in no hurry. I was in the middle of nowhere, there literally wasn't a light to be seen in any direction, so imagine my surprise when the blue and red strobes came on behind me. I pulled over, running through in my head what I could have done wrong, when the police officer came up to my window to tell me that I'd been doing 106kph in a 60 zone :eek: I immediately apologised profusely, admitted that I didn't possibly have an argument for my cause, but explained that I hadn't seen any indicator of a change in speed limit, either by the presence of a sign (which wasn't there, as I found on the return trip), or any form of residence, and once he took a look at my licence, he shook my hand, told me to enjoy my stay here, told me to be careful, and gave me directions to Leigh Creek. The point I'm trying to make here is that he took a look at the situation, assessed it, and dealt with it accordingly and treated me very fairly. And that is what I look for in a police officer.

On the other end of the scale, I was driving back from Melbourne in September, pulled into a servo outside of Keith for a rest stop, a coffee and a bite to eat. I took a half hour break because I'd been driving for quite a while, and by the time I pulled out of the servo I had forgotten I was still in a 60 zone. I pulled out, crossed the road, reached 70 on the downhill before realising my error, then throttled back. Too late, there was a motorbike traffic cop at the bottom of the hill, and no explanation of any kind made a difference. He saw me exit the servo, saw me accelerate and then decelerate, and all of this was in the space of a couple of hundred metres. The fact that I hold an Irish drivers licence didn't help either, as (a) he was reluctant to believe that it was real, and (b) he didn't have a residence to send the ticket to once I did convince him that it was real. It got to the point where he was actually going to bring me, and my vehicle in to the station, before my girlfriend had to give her drivers licence as proof of identity, and her address to relay the ticket onto me.

Now maybe I have been very unlucky, and have just witnessed two extremes that just so happen to enforce my beliefs, but I find it very hard to believe in a system where a traffic officer will sit at the bottom of a hill to book twenty guys on their way home from work who just didn't watch their speedo at that crucial point in time when they pulled the trigger in the radar gun, yet don't bother with the areas where known hooning goes on on a daily basis. I can legally drive home here after two beers, when I know that they have affected my reaction times, but if I go over the speed limit by a fraction, then there's a problem.

In the ideal world, there would be no speeding fines. Instead your licence wouldn't have 12 points, it would have 4. Every time you screw up, you lose a point; lose all 4 then you lose your car and licence for a year. But unfortunately, there's no money in that.

Just my two cents, for what it's worth...

[BigJon]

pulled into a servo outside of Keith for a rest stop, a coffee and a bite to eat. I took a half hour break because I'd been driving for quite a while, and by the time I pulled out of the servo I had forgotten I was still in a 60 zone. I pulled out, crossed the road, reached 70 on the downhill before realising my error, then throttled back. Too late, there was a motorbike traffic cop at the bottom of the hill, and no explaining in the world made a difference.

Keith in SA? Near Bordertown?

If so, Keith and the immediatly surrounding highway is flat as a biscuit. No hills to be going down!

[mike_ie]

Keith in SA? Near Bordertown?

If so, Keith and the immediatly surrounding highway is flat as a biscuit. No hills to be going down!


I *think* it was Keith, or somewhere near but bear in mind that I'm not well up on the towns here, so I'm far from 100% on that. It was outside of a small town, (one of those towns (ten buildings) that seem to be on a siding of the main highway, servo on LHS going towards Adelaide with green livery (Caltex??). Servo on the top of the hill, 100 metres downhill stretch before it flattens out again. Either way, I'm not claiming that the hill caused me to increase my speed - it' simply took me a couple of seconds to realise what the limit was after a half hour break, and adjust accordingly.

[p38arover]

There are two categories of police officers here, from what I see. Police officers, and traffic police. Where traffic police differ from the regular police officers, is that they either aren't allowed to, or choose not to, use discretion when it comes to dealing with motorists actions on the roads here. Instead, they work on a quota based system, where they have to raise a certain amount of revenue per month.

Ahh. We'd need comment from highway patrol coppers on that. There's at least one ex-HWP and one current HWP (both NSW) on the forum but they may not wish to say (and I don't blame them).

As I have never been pulled up by the HWP, I can't comment from direct experience. I do know that the ex-HWP bloke told me thet he exercised discretion. I have no reason to disbelieve him.

[mike_ie]

I do know that the ex-HWP bloke told me thet he exercised discretion. I have no reason to disbelieve him.

If that's the case, then I am very glad to stand corrected :) Opinions are always going to be biased by personal experience, myself included. Unfortunately I've had a couple of former traffic officers tell me stories that make me seriously question their use of discretion. I'd be happy to know that was not always the case.

[MickS]

There is no differentiation between "normal police" and "traffic police" in NSW. They are just "sworn" police officers, specialising in different areas, with different training backgrounds and certifications.

As far as discretion is concerned, all police have it. It runs all the way through the justice system to judges and no doubt you have all witnessed that. Discretionary powers are used quite regularly by police.

Quotas or monthly targets or stats...same thing...Again, all police have to fulfill certain targets. Whether it be knife searches or move alongs, speeding fines or checking to see if you have undersized fish in your creel. It is how they gauge the performance of the command. It's the in your face type of policing that everyone wants, but when they are subject of the non-discretionary use of power, they whinge about.

The public whinge about graffiti tags on their fences and smashed letter boxes...they want zero tolerance policing, as long as they don't get a blister for speeding.

Just like a sales representative has to reach monthly sales figures or he is out on his ear, police, although not sacked for under performing, go on performance management plans if they are under achieving.

Police are drawn from society....society isn't perfect...and with current recruitment standards...well, that's another thread entirely.

[mike_ie]

Probably one of the most well balanced arguments I have seen put forward to me so far, MickS :)

[p38arover]

Oh, Mick! We keep getting told by the Minister and the Commissioner that there are no quotas, er, targets....... :p

[RobHay]

Flashing headlights is pretty much frowned upon in NSW, but booking some one for warning of a speed camera is proof positive that the agenda is revenue raising, as the 'end result', getting people to slow down would have been achieved.


Martyn
I agree the godlike ones all say it is about getting people to slow down and that they achieve this by having the speed camera there...I too can achieve the same result with just a simple flash of my headlights, which is cost neutral, saves the other driver from having to part with some of his hard earned cash, remind him that we do have a speed limit, and that he should stay within it.........see the country working as it should be...as a democracy ....not a totalitarian state.

[greg smith]

UNMARKED cars on the highway following deisel 4WD got booked over speed limit copped fine where--middle of nowhere--revenue raising? B oath ....4WD parked behind shrubs downhill run sign posted--yes ---in front of said car more revenue raising? Drove into NSW from QLD huge signs speed camera ahead slow down---OK----hi-way patrol bright red with checker banding-- a true presence and a reminder:o

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Simple rule to live by - Don't do the crime, don't pay the fine. If you don't want to be booked for speeding, then don't speed.


LOL.

You know they don't always work, don't you? And then it's your responsibility to prove that they weren't working? (http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2004/s1121730.htm)

I suppose whats having your drivers licence unjustly removed, and loosing your job matter if we are all supposed to be safer according to the marketing?

I've seen them booking people for 10k under the speed limit here in Brisbane. Whether those people successfully fought them I'll never know.

[buddha D2]

As a foreigner to Australia, I'm going to chip in here with my own opinion, simply because it's been the topic of discussion between me and my workmates over many's the after work beer.

There are two categories of police officers here, from what I see. Police officers, and traffic police. Where traffic police differ from the regular police officers, is that they either aren't allowed to, or choose not to, use discretion when it comes to dealing with motorists actions on the roads here. Instead, they work on a quota based system, where they have to raise a certain amount of revenue per month. ...

Hmmmm...............in a former life I was a Vic copper, 11yrs of it. I also spent 5 yrs at the TOG, or the TMU, as it became. Never once did I see or hear of anything in the form of a "quota" from my supervisors. I did, however, see certain individuals who aimed for a qty of tickets per shift, they claim as a measure or proof of the amount of work they did in a day.............whatever!!!!

Discretion is a variable that command don't like much as it is inconsistent and against their policies yet I, and many of my former colleagues, applied it sometimes liberally, other times with minimal tolerance; that is the benefit of human involvement. Weather/traffic conditions can be considered, vehicle type/driver experience/interesting justifications for each breach looked at.

There is one simple rule, as I see it, to apply.......unless you want to contribute to the coffers of the Gov't of the day, don't break the Road Rules........if you are going to speed or ignore these laws, be prepared to wear the consequences, whether it is a fine/demerit points, or worse, much much worse.

Your choice.........:soapbox:


Gags

p.s. I am now an ambo and you do get sick of picking up the pieces after poor driver choices.........:wallbash:

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

Hmmmm...............in a former life I was a Vic copper, 11yrs of it. I also spent 5 yrs at the TOG, or the TMU, as it became. Never once did I see or hear of anything in the form of a "quota" from my supervisors. I did, however, see certain individuals who aimed for a qty of tickets per shift, they claim as a measure or proof of the amount of work they did in a day.............whatever!!!!

Discretion is a variable that command don't like much as it is inconsistent and against their policies yet I, and many of my former colleagues, applied it sometimes liberally, other times with minimal tolerance; that is the benefit of human involvement. Weather/traffic conditions can be considered, vehicle type/driver experience/interesting justifications for each breach looked at.

There is one simple rule, as I see it, to apply.......unless you want to contribute to the coffers of the Gov't of the day, don't break the Road Rules........if you are going to speed or ignore these laws, be prepared to wear the consequences, whether it is a fine/demerit points, or worse, much much worse.

Your choice.........:soapbox:


Gags

p.s. I am now an ambo and you do get sick of picking up the pieces after poor driver choices.........:wallbash:

The drivers licencing is a joke too, they are far too easy to get these days.
But for people that complain about being booked unfairly on hills etc, do they even realise that their cars are fitted with a brake pedal. Brakes are used to stop or slow the motion of the vehicle. Applying them more regulary and the vehicle speed can be controlled.
As far as the law is concerned IGNORANCE IS NO EXCUSE OF THE LAW!

[THE BOOGER]

Quota,s dont exist at least offically in NSW but i have spoken with a Hwy patrol sergent who complained about 500 km a day tourists, officers who go out and clock up 500km per shift and only booked 5 or 6 cars. Said if he could see 6 infringments in the first 5 min of his shift then they could do better or go back to GD,s so does that constitute a quota?:angel:

[fclandy]

We used to have one of the rent-a-cop speed cameras set up outside our place regularly. Always the exact same spot - they had carefully chosen the exact location to satisfy the rules about obstructions and so on.

Until I went out and spoke to the guy in the car.

He was edgy (guess they get a lot of agro people approaching them).

I pointed out that he was illegally parked - their carefully chosen location was too close to our driveway. He wasn't interested, so I called the local police station and made a complaint.

They don't setup out the front of our place anymore.

[disco_mitch]

this topic always makes me laugh why because I WAS A HOON
yes when i was on my ps and into hot 4s i done a burnout in a beach carpark and some guy in a sierra tried chasing me so i outran him i thought i was cool till a few nights later when a knock on the door i opened it and said oh no not you again yes i lost my licence yes i hated him 6 years on a few speeding tickets i now have a different view i learnt my lesson

what are the cops doing? the same thing i do 5days a week, my job
yes some of them do get a bit to sly
our apprentice om ps recently got done for 10 over was going to loose his licence took it to court anyway he gets to keep his licence in return for doing the offenders course he started last night and he was driving today and his attitude has changed already and thats only after one night of it

cops are doing there job if you dont speed dont dui have legal tires, rego and blinkers they prob wont bother you if they book you theres a 99% chance you allowed them to do so by doing wrong by the law which you agreed to obey when you renewed your licence s