The Wright bros..........

[Grockle]

....first flight was shorter than the the length of a 747 wing

[3toes]

First powered controlled flight to be predantic.

Most people miss out those two important middle words as many people had managed either flight - balloons - gliders or powered - at school those many years ago we learnt about a Kiwi who was the first to achieve powered flight however did not progress any further as the UK government told them not to be so silly as it was impossible.

Also not often reported is that the Wright Brothers were under USA rules able to patient the principal of flight as an 'invention'. Any one in the USA who wanted to build any kind of powered controlled flying machine had to pay them a royalty for using their 'invention'. Sort of like Isaac Newton having a patient on gravity and charging everyone in the world for being able to remain attached to it.

This lasted until the USA entered WW2 when the USA government realised how much it was going to cost them and passed special leglislation to cancel the patient. Until them the USA government had supported the Wright brothers attempts which were largly rebuffed to enforce their patient world wide.

[F4Phantom]

That these guys were the first to achieve powered flight is a grey area. Many people had been attempting powered flight around the world for at least 50 serious years prior. An aussie came close, an englishman almost flew a 3 tonne plane off rails, and there are several claims that others were first including a frenchman paid by the french army to make a powered aircraft. He did so and apparently did fly it in front of commanders. It was an amazing aircraft not just because it flew but because it also had RETRACTABLE WHEELS!!!

[Rayngie]

That Kiwi guy was called Richard Pearce, generally known as the first to powered flight, I think by a few years too, but the American's want to hang on to their history too much to recognise it...

[V8Ian]

I read, a long time ago, about the real possibility that the accolade could quite rightly belong to an Australian. The speed of communication robbed us of the credit. I don't recall any further detail, other than it happend in Melbourne (?), and have since not come accross more information.

[F4Phantom]

I read, a long time ago, about the real possibility that the accolade could quite rightly belong to an Australian. The speed of communication robbed us of the credit. I don't recall any further detail, other than it happend in Melbourne (?), and have since not come accross more information.

There was an aussie experimenting with a correct wing, good P to W engines and props, all he had to do was solve the prop problem which he coudnt do. He then dropped the prop thing and went back to flappig wings. Apparently the Wright bros took all the research he had done this far and went from there to develop a good prop.

[V8Ian]

There was an aussie experimenting with a correct wing, good P to W engines and props, all he had to do was solve the prop problem which he coudnt do. He then dropped the prop thing and went back to flappig wings. Apparently the Wright bros took all the research he had done this far and went from there to develop a good prop.
The guy to whom I refer, supposedly conducted a controlled flight mere days or so prior to the Wright Brothers effort.

[F4Phantom]

The guy to whom I refer, supposedly conducted a controlled flight mere days or so prior to the Wright Brothers effort.

Well I would like to know more. However it is still a grey area because we dont have exact records. It could well be the wright bros but it is likley they were the first well promoted.


First flying machine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

* Clément Ader, France — October 9, 1890

He reportedly made the first manned, powered, heavier-than-air flight of a significant distance (50 m) but insignificant altitude from level ground in his bat-winged monoplane, the Ader Éole . Seven years later, the Avion III (a different machine) was said to be flown upon 300 metres (in fact just lifted off the ground, and lost control). The event was not publicized until many years later, as it had been a military secret. The events were poorly documented, the aeroplane not suited to have been controlled; there was no further development. Later in life Ader claimed to have flown the Avion II in 1891 for over 200 meters.

[F4Phantom]

"Lawrence Hargrave, Australia—November 12, 1894,

The Australian inventor of the box kite, linked four of his kites together, added a sling seat, and flew 16 feet. By demonstrating to a sceptical public that it was possible to build a safe and stable flying machine, Hargrave opened the door to other inventors and pioneers. Hargrave devoted most of his life to constructing a machine that would fly. He believed passionately in open communication within the scientific community and would not patent his inventions. Instead, he scrupulously published the results of his experiments in order that a mutual interchange of ideas may take place with other inventors working in the same field, so as to expedite joint progress."


Its a far cry from the wright bros who patended powered flight, what tossers.

[isuzurover]

Its a far cry from the wright bros who patended powered flight, what tossers.

Not quite true AFAIK.
Their U.S. patent 821,393 claims the invention of a system of aerodynamic control that manipulates a flying machine's surfaces.

And the patent in full:
http://invention.psychology.msstate.edu/i/Wrights/WrightUSPatent/WrightPatent.html

[JohnF]

Thinking about this, Oe has to wonder if the wright brothers only flew "in ground effect". Most people think Howard Hughs flew his "Spuce Goose" the largest plane built in Ground effect only.

[F4Phantom]

Thinking about this, Oe has to wonder if the wright brothers only flew "in ground effect". Most people think Howard Hughs flew his "Spuce Goose" the largest plane built in Ground effect only.

this is correct, aircraft took about another 10 yrs to actually leave the ground under their own steam.

Your probably right about the spruce goose too although I had never thought about it.

[isuzurover]

This is worth a read:

Wright brothers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Although the wright brothers likely weren't the first, they produced the first successful prototype with the 3-axis control principle which is still used today - and unlike many other groups at the time working toward the same goal, they were entirely self funded.

[F4Phantom]

This is worth a read:

Wright brothers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_brothers)

Although the wright brothers likely weren't the first, they produced the first successful prototype with the 3-axis control principle which is still used today - and unlike many other groups at the time working toward the same goal, they were entirely self funded.

this article makes the wrights look even worse than I suggested.

"The Curtiss people derisively suggested that if someone jumped in the air and waved his arms, the Wrights would sue."

"The Wrights' preoccupation with the legal issue stifled their work on new designs, and by 1911 Wright aircraft were considered inferior to those of European makers. Indeed, aviation development in the U.S. was suppressed to such an extent that when the U.S. entered World War I no acceptable American-designed aircraft were available, and U.S. forces were compelled to use French machines. Orville and Katharine Wright believed Curtiss was partly responsible for Wilbur's premature death, which occurred in the wake of his exhausting travels and the stress of the legal battle."

"The lawsuits damaged the public image of the Wright brothers, who were generally regarded before this as heroes. Critics said the brothers were greedy and unfair and compared their actions unfavorably to European inventors, who worked more openly."

[isuzurover]

this article makes the wrights look even worse than I suggested.

"The Curtiss people derisively suggested that if someone jumped in the air and waved his arms, the Wrights would sue."

"The Wrights' preoccupation with the legal issue stifled their work on new designs, and by 1911 Wright aircraft were considered inferior to those of European makers. Indeed, aviation development in the U.S. was suppressed to such an extent that when the U.S. entered World War I no acceptable American-designed aircraft were available, and U.S. forces were compelled to use French machines. Orville and Katharine Wright believed Curtiss was partly responsible for Wilbur's premature death, which occurred in the wake of his exhausting travels and the stress of the legal battle."

"The lawsuits damaged the public image of the Wright brothers, who were generally regarded before this as heroes. Critics said the brothers were greedy and unfair and compared their actions unfavorably to European inventors, who worked more openly."

Regardless - my point was that you were incorrect in stating that they "patented flight" or words to that effect.

They certainly seemed to have gone a bit crazy in defending their patents, however, unlike many others, they were completely self funded.

[F4Phantom]

Regardless - my point was that you were incorrect in stating that they "patented flight" or words to that effect.

They certainly seemed to have gone a bit crazy in defending their patents, however, unlike many others, they were completely self funded.

Yeah ok, I was going off what 3toes said about that, but I should have read it first. Either way I leared some things about these guys today which has lowered my opinion. In the end their system failed their community.

[isuzurover]

In the end their system failed their community.

??? Wtf???

I agree that in the end their pursuit of patent infringers instead of developing better planes certainly cost them - friends and money...

However the fact remains that they plain they developed and demonstrated in 1908 was technically far superior to anything else at the time.


Facing deep skepticism in the French aeronautical community and outright scorn by some newspapers that called him a "bluffeur", Wilbur began official public demonstrations on August 8, 1908 at the Hunaudières horse racing track near the town of Le Mans, France. His first flight lasted only one minute 45 seconds, but his ability to effortlessly make banking turns and fly a circle amazed and stunned onlookers, including several pioneer French aviators, among them Louis Bleriot. In the following days Wilbur made a series of technically challenging flights including figure-eights, demonstrating his skills as a pilot and the capability of his flying machine, which far surpassed those of all other pilot pioneers.

[F4Phantom]

??? Wtf???

I agree that in the end their pursuit of patent infringers instead of developing better planes certainly cost them - friends and money...

However the fact remains that they plain they developed and demonstrated in 1908 was technically far superior to anything else at the time.

OK I dont think you know what I ment.

I was refering to the idea that on one level, the amercian ideal failed the country. The the US didnt have a suitable aircraft for the onset of WW1 becasue the system of laws, and how things ought to be done stifled the countries progress, who should have at that time been world leaders in the field.

The communinty or country were failed by their system of doing things. If we say that France were behind in technology early on, were then able to sell aircraft to the US because they had advanced past the US, then the USA way of doing things was less effective.

But this is an endless debate of itself and one I dont know much about so I will say it was more a passing observation.

[D-Fender]

Considering the Chinese were the ones that invented gunpowder and cars were invented in Germany, I'd say the sepos way of doing things was less effective, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the French invented flying.

[isuzurover]

OK I dont think you know what I ment.

I was refering to the idea that on one level, the amercian ideal failed the country. The the US didnt have a suitable aircraft for the onset of WW1 becasue the system of laws, and how things ought to be done stifled the countries progress, who should have at that time been world leaders in the field.

The communinty or country were failed by their system of doing things. If we say that France were behind in technology early on, were then able to sell aircraft to the US because they had advanced past the US, then the USA way of doing things was less effective.

But this is an endless debate of itself and one I dont know much about so I will say it was more a passing observation.

I think you are more talking about patents than the American ideal. It is a widely held belief that patents stifle technological development. This seems to be a case in point. If the Wright Bros has put all the effort they put into lodging and defending their patents into developing planes, they could likely have stayed ahead of the competition.