Isn't it time to get serious and start cruching cars?

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

After the terrible waste of Life in Melb yesterday where a P plater and his mates all died in a High speed car crash (170kph in a 70Kph Zone)
Police report that a couple of hoons were caught doing 160 kph in the same area again . One only had his licence for 6 months.
Police don't know what to do next to stop this carnage.
It's about time the government got serious and started crushing cars. Zero tolerance.
The families of the victims can't keep blaming the trees that jump in front of their little Johnnys all the time.
Speeding fines are a voluntary contribution system, some times road deaths are also a voluntary subscription system... if they don't put them selves in situations of heighten risk!

Or it it just the stupid mentality of " We are here for a good time, not a long time?

Maybe Bromide needs to be prescribed for all young bucks when they get a licence or compulsory speed limiters fitted to young drives cars.

[Sleepy]

Would that work?
How do you stop some teenagers thinking:


It wont happen to me?
I am a good driver?
The cops aren't around?
I've only had a few ####. (insert tabs/drinks/puffs)
I'll give them all a thrill

Crunch their car and they'll find another.

I grew up with a lot of friends driving too fast, too drunk in unsafe vehicles. Luckily they survived (although a few prangs). Is it worse now? I dunno.

Education should start in school.

[solmanic]

Said it before and I'll say it again... if the government was really, really serious about curbing speeding then 130km/h speed limiters would be and ADR requirement on all new cars sold in Australia. Limiters would also be compulsorily retro-fitted (at own expense) to the car of anyone who scored their 2nd speeding offence within a 12 month period and be required by law to operate in order to get a roadworthy certificate.

Now I have had this argument a million times before, so to save the breath of those who will jump all over this idea... no, a 130km/h limiter will not stop excessive speed in a built-up area (the news reports I read said the car was travelling at 140km/h and 130km/h wouldn't have made much difference to the outcome). But it will stop arbitrary hooning at speed just because the vehicle is capable of it.

If anyone has a valid reason why their car should be capable of speeds in excess of 130km/h on a public road, then I would like to hear it (Ambos, Cops & Firies need not respond here).

As an aside, one thing that bewilders me is that car companies are not allowed to show speed in any of their advertising, yet they still try to one-up each other with more power and higher published top speeds for their products. I fail to see the point in a 325kW HSV Clubsport unless it's being sold for racing.

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

Would that work?
How do you stop some teenagers thinking:


It wont happen to me?
I am a good driver?
The cops aren't around?
I've only had a few ####. (insert tabs/drinks/puffs)
I'll give them all a thrill

Crunch their car and they'll find another.

I grew up with a lot of friends driving too fast, too drunk in unsafe vehicles. Luckily they survived (although a few prangs). Is it worse now? I dunno.

Education should start in school.
It is worse now, there are more motorists on the road.
A hoon spends lots of money on there "pride a joy" so do their mates, but why soup up the VN Commodore of Ef Falcon or Nissan etc lower it, put a noisy exhaust performance system into it and blue print and balance, put boost gauges and what ever on their cars only to drive sedately?
NO! they want to see how fast their machine will go, it is showing off to mates comparing the level of testrone their vehicle can acheive.
I can't see many accident fatality reports of a KE70 Corolla wrapped around a tree.

It's the same as a 4WD owner, putting swampers on, having a 6" lift, dislocating suspension only to drive around the city..... they will want to see how their rig performs, so they go bush,where it's meant to be, the young hoon is the same he wants to see how fast his car can go. But instead of booking into a race track he decides to do it in on the streets.
Imaging if the 4WD drives mounted steps in Melb to check their articulation or race around the lawns of the botantical gardens and parks to get off road? There would be public out cry
I notice that it seems to be the young male drivers, you don't see too many females with Frangpanni stickers on their vehicles wrapped around trees or poles

[Disco44]

For many years there has been an education programme in Queensland schools for grade 12's ,run by the Firies,Ambo's and Police on driver education. Its entails as vividly as possible lectures , archived footage of accident scenes and an actual road accident exercise on all things that teenagers can expect if they speed and its subsequent consequences.It requires parents written permission to attend and the permission of families of any accident victims used in the archival footages. It is as real as can be possible but when it was being set up some footages were toned down which was a pity as they would have had a deadly impact which was what the services were trying to attain.
Do other states have such a programme.It has had a good measure of success here in Queensland.
John.

[cucinadio]

Would that work?
How do you stop some teenagers thinking:


It wont happen to me?
I am a good driver?
The cops aren't around?
I've only had a few ####. (insert tabs/drinks/puffs)
I'll give them all a thrill
Crunch their car and they'll find another.

I grew up with a lot of friends driving too fast, too drunk in unsafe vehicles. Luckily they survived (although a few prangs). Is it worse now? I dunno.

Education should start in school.


good point really ...im of the belief that none of this is good ..but i grew up with the same stuff happening every day ....we have rolled a car whilst negotiating a not so 2wd suitable track in the bees creek NT but to this day the only persons that know about it are the drivers parents ..and this was just one of the misdirections that could have been a lot more fatal, that my parents to this day have no idea about ....FGS...anyone can view a you tube video of a young guy on he pee's doing track and hill climes that even i wouldn't attempt on a bad day ....lisencing is very much to blame especially in an instance like that ..but in saying that we all were glad it wasn't that way when we were that age....

IMHO ..no more is happening in these instances that didn't happen or you knew of happening when most of we were growing up....is just that tech has us on the edge of the seat just waiting to view/hear about the next bad thing that 20 years ago we wouldn't have been aware of .....

INHO..no life lost is acceptable ..but any life lost is a sad sad day ....but to blame teenagers about things that we know fare well happened when we were young and stupid is a bit pointless...

Also IMHO..there should be a nation wide 0 alcohol limit for driver full stop ....if its an offense to drive whilst under the influence of Mull or other drugs then the same should be applied to alcohol full stop ....

cheers :angel:

[Sleepy]

Not sure it is worse now. (I'm talking about 70's/80's)

There was no limits on V8's or passenger numbers. Most of these accidents happen late at night without too many cars on the road.

My point is as long as some teenagers think they are invincible, stuff like this will happen. Not sure what you do about that.

I think solmanics idea is ok (wouldn't worry me anyway) - although hitting a tree at 130kmh would still do some damage. I am sure it wouldn't take long for someone to bypass this system too. :(

[dobbo]

simple solution

Ban and crush all cars, revoke all drivers licences and issue bikes and public transport passes.

The environment will benefit, there will be less need for oil. I bet people will still die on the roads, even riding deadly treadleys.

[cucinadio]

It is worse now, there are more motorists on the road.
[QUOTE]
A hoon spends lots of money on there "pride a joy" so do their mates, but why soup up the VN Commodore of Ef Falcon or Nissan etc lower it, put a noisy exhaust performance system into it and blue print and balance, put boost gauges and what ever on their cars only to drive sedately?
NO! they want to see how fast their machine will go, it is showing off to mates comparing the level of testrone their vehicle can acheive.



Again ..no more relevant that an XD falcon with a 350chev stuffed in it or a HQ with a 253 :angel:......you see it all the same just that they have abs and we had jack ....it really is no differant....IMHO..

Cheers

[Sleepy]

I have plenty of safety padding on my abs:p

[rovercare]

Castrate every boy prior to pubity?

Man learnt to walk, man had foot race
Man learnt to ride horse, man had horse race
Man made car, man had car race

:D

[strangy]

Testosterone,,,wooohoo what thing that is!!

If you had a moped you will soup it up and se how fast it goes....
If you had a Billy cart you'd put on pneumatic tyres and see how fast goes...
If your mate had a 12 speed treadly you had to have an 18 speed and see how fast you could go....
R/C car.... put a bigger motor in and see how fast it goes....

In Indonesia motorcycles are limited to 250cc unles you are in government or hold a vip special permit.
Most motorcycles are about 125 cc step through postie style things. Every few kms in the city areas you will find a shop offering , bigger brakes, carbies, bling etc. Most of these things are hotted up to one extent or another. It is natural state of mankind to want to go faster and further no matter what.

When motorcars were first available a man on a horse had to ride in front of the car carrying a red flag to make sure the car did not go too fast and the public were safe.

Maybe someone would like to volunteer for a flag bearing job?

Sad that many young people aren't going to grow older, but it is the way we are built and no amount of money, education, gadgets or law making can give inexperienced people experience nor make idiots intelligent.

But, YES, crush the car before they do it themselves with their friends in it and somebodies family around it., its a great idea.

Cheers

[CraigE]

I dontr think crushing cars is the answer except maybe in extreme cases. It has been in play here in WA now for some time with Anti-Hoon legislation and as predicted has been used for everything and anything that the legislation was not intended for. Police Commissioner, ministers etc said it would not be abused by the police, but it has frequently for minor offences and unsubstantiated reports by public members. It is highly vulnerable to abuse and for use as a vengence tool.
Do not get me wrong hoons should be penalised, but wahat is fair and equal is very debatable eg doing a burnout in the centre of town in a high pedestrian area compared to doing same burnout on an isolated non populated, clear stretch of road. Doing a slow speed burnout compared to ahigh speed one. Doing 130kmph compared to 300kmph (and yes I have seen that done). Inadvertently spinning wheels on a greasy road after light rain (and yes I know someone that had their car impounded for this). Doing a wheelie on a bike on a main road or doing one in a public space off road or on a dirt track. Then of course there is DUI and DD that do not come under this legislation. Now these are the most important ommissions and far more serious than most of the things you can have your car impounded or crushed for in WA.
The way the law is set up in WA you could basically be pinged for any off road driving in your 4x4, so be carefull what you wish for.
I ultimatelly think it should have to relate to a dangerous driving or DUI, DD charge before anti hoon legislation comes into play, not for minor traffic offences.
Yes we need to stop some of the road toll, but people also need to be accountable and still the biggest killers are alcohol, fatigue and speed.

[rockyroad]

Stupidity cant be banned unfortunately. Hindsight is great but I dare say a lot of can look back and say "geez we were lucky not to kill ourselves".

Instead of crushing their cars I would rather have the hoon be forced to watch his car being auctioned off at a redicuously low price (auction only available to people over 25) or perhaps some of the higer quality hoon cars could be used as under cover cop cars similar to the way that old cars are being recycled for speed cameras.

Being an ambo have dealt with similar cases but the most memorable was a cruiser ute full of teens rolling in a paddock whilst doing circle work. Not going very fast but when sitting in the tray you have a good chance of ending up squashed underneath the vehicle.

I remeber an accident a few years back where a car full of teens hit a bridge and one of the metal railings went straight through the car and through one of the passengers and making a horrible mess. This kid was well under 18 and his bogan family and friends made a roadside memorial for him - they all left cans of bundy rum!!

Nothing will be achieved until that particular mindset can be changed.

[Tank]

It is worse now, there are more motorists on the road.
A hoon spends lots of money on there "pride a joy" so do their mates, but why soup up the VN Commodore of Ef Falcon or Nissan etc lower it, put a noisy exhaust performance system into it and blue print and balance, put boost gauges and what ever on their cars only to drive sedately?
NO! they want to see how fast their machine will go, it is showing off to mates comparing the level of testrone their vehicle can acheive.
I can't see many accident fatality reports of a KE70 Corolla wrapped around a tree.

It's the same as a 4WD owner, putting swampers on, having a 6" lift, dislocating suspension only to drive around the city..... they will want to see how their rig performs, so they go bush,where it's meant to be, the young hoon is the same he wants to see how fast his car can go. But instead of booking into a race track he decides to do it in on the streets.
Imaging if the 4WD drives mounted steps in Melb to check their articulation or race around the lawns of the botantical gardens and parks to get off road? There would be public out cry
I notice that it seems to be the young male drivers, you don't see too many females with Frangpanni stickers on their vehicles wrapped around trees or poles
Have you ever heard the saying it's a free country, if you want all of the controls on what we can do and buy, go live in North Korea or some other Despot State, Regards Frank.

[robzilla]

it's all in the mindset. until that changes, everything else is a band aid fix.
the turbo/V8 laws are flat out stupid. so no P-plater can drive a 3.9 D1, but they can jump straight into an E46 M3...hhmm wonder which one is more likely to cause trouble...
the whole licensing system is stupid, frustrates the hell out of me just thinking about it! :p

EDIT: and no, it's not time to start crushing cars. It's not their fault they have an idiot driving them! Auction them off, suspend the driver, whatever...but crushing cars is just a waste of what is usually a nice vehicle!

[Hymie]

My gripe is with modern Policing.
Sure, I had my fun as a young bloke on deserted back roads. I got pulled up one night in my 69 VF Valiant with a 318 pulling I don't know how fast I was going as I was scared to look at the speedo. Sure I got pulled over, verbally roto-rooted by the copper and threatened with many forms of testicular removal if caught again.
Since then in over 1 000 000 K's of driving I've had 2 Tickets for speeding.
Lesson learnt? You betcha!

We used to go to the Warragul Drive In, have a few cans, (OK maybe more than just a few), and drive home. We always got breathalyzed leaving the drive in, and were always told to go straight home and that if we were caught out on the roads again that night we were goners, and we believed and respected the Coppers for that. I don't recall anybody doing their ticket for DUI.
Lesson learnt? You betcha!

Nowadays if a Copper gave a young feller a fair telling off the Copper would be up on charges.

Now for my real Beef.
Speed Cameras.

Imagine a scenario,

A young male is a few cans and a few KMpH over the limit.
Travels through a speed camera and gets a pretty picture taken.
He runs a red light and kills a Family.
Sure, he's got a speeding fine and an dead family to deal with on his conscience, plus the time in Jail with a big gay Maori to make life interesting for a few years.

If a flesh and blood Copper had pulled him over and breathalyzed him, we get a speeding, drunk driver off the road instantly and a family still alive.

Which scenario do you prefer?

[JohnF]

Sad that many young people aren't going to grow older, but it is the way we are built and no amount of money, education, gadgets or law making can give inexperienced people experience nor make idiots intelligent.

But, YES, crush the car before they do it themselves with their friends in it and somebodies family around it., its a great idea.

Cheers

I think cars should be impounded and courts order it crushed [and any order to crussh the car should be subject to appeal if the owner wants], which means the abuse by police cannot happen as in the WA example in another post. When the car is crushed it should be returned to the owner in a crushed codition for him to dispose of at his expense, which will make them think next time. Crushing should not be for first offense except 170 in a 70 zone while drunk type offence. But repeat offenders should get cars crushed.

Most of these hoons have drunk and it should be strictly zero alcohol limit on driving. A airline pilot, as well as Truck and Bus Drivers have a Zero limit as scientific studys show even just glass affects our judgement, and slows reaction times. Governments bow to the alcohol industry not to make the zero limit wider.

[PAT303]

Why is it a government problem?,why do parents let thier kids have those types of cars?.When my son is 18 an buys a car he won't be buying any type of performance car,if he decides too and being a teenager he will he'll find all his cloths on the lawn and his room made into my study. Pat

[JohnF]

However Hymie, I thanked your post, but would prefer no drunks on road. If they are over the limit they normally do not go to jail the first time, but too many drunk drivers are repeat offenders.

[Tote]

A few thoughts:
Crushing Cars, what does it do apart from giving the relevent minister and Police Commisioner the opportunity to say "We're being tough on hoons" ? Said hoon will either get another car or steal one if he is not inclined to be reformed or if he learns his lesson will be saddled with a large debt that may lmpact his family more than him.

Speed limiting cars:
The argument that speed limiting cars is the solution to stop hooning makes as much sense as banning 4wds. After all there is no reason besides personal choice that most Australians NEED a 4wd. Maybe we should enact legislation that requires anyone that wants to buy a 4wd has to provide a duly authorised letter stating their proposed use for it. I'm sure that bush tracks would still get torn up and campgrounds wrecked in the same manner as they do now. Think about the similaraties between this statement and the desire to speed limit cars to 130 KM/H

Zero BAC:
The reason that we don't have zero blood alcohol levels is that it creates an administrative nightmare with people losing their license for taking medications or eating Rum Balls. there may be an argument for 0.2 but with the number of people being caught many times over the limit it would seem that current enforcement is lacking anyway.

Finally with respect to the current tragedy the driver in question was allegedly doing 140 KM/H, Had 6 people in a 5 seat vehicle, at least one of whom was not wearing a seatbelt and was not licenced to carry multiple passengers. Can someone point out to me how more legislation would have prevented this crash.

Regards,
Tote

[Tote]

Why is it a government problem?,why do parents let thier kids have those types of cars?.When my son is 18 an buys a car he won't be buying any type of performance car,if he decides too and being a teenager he will he'll find all his cloths on the lawn and his room made into my study. Pat

Except it isnt a performance car. It was an XR6 which is a standard Falcon with better seats and wheels and some spoilers. It has the same performance capability as many 4 cylinder cars of the same vintage and arguably more safety features.
XR6 turbo is a completely different vehicle and is not available to P platers legally.
Regards,
Tote

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

Have you ever heard the saying it's a free country, if you want all of the controls on what we can do and buy, go live in North Korea or some other Despot State, Regards Frank.
Yes I suppose your right it is a free country.
Hoons have the Free right to kill themselves and those of us that have no say in it.
Let's be barbaric and have no laws!
No disrepect BUT HAVE YOU EVER HAD ANY ONE CLOSE TO YOU KILLED IN A CAR ACCIDENT?
I HAVE TWICE -So don't preach about FREE WILL
The loved ones I lost had no right or freedom, they were taken BY SPEEDING OTHER DRIVERS!:mad::mad:

Yes your right, I should move to North Korea BEFORE SOME ONE BECOMES THE "HAT TRICK"

[Phantum]

Driving instructors do a great job of teaching the kids the right way to drive, but sometimes I wounder when teenage daughter comes home from driving lesson with comments like,

The instructor said I was the best driver he has had for a long time (made after 1 lesson).:question:

You will only need one more lesson your that good at driving.

With comments like this its no wounder they think they are bullet proof.

[Sparksdisco]

Instead of crushing the car what about crushing the driver:twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:

why do parents let thier kids have those types of cars?

My first car was a little laser. best car i ever had

Apart from the disco :p:p:p

[CraigE]

Instead of crushing the car what about crushing the driver:twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:

why do parents let thier kids have those types of cars?

My first car was a little laser. best car i ever had

Apart from the disco :p:p:p
An XR6 is actually a very mundane car in terms of performance and as said just as a few more luxuries with no more power. On par with a Commodore V6 etc. There are a lot more high performance 4 cyl cars out there no one is questioning. Anyway what is wrong with having a nice car? Maybe we should include 4x4s in this debate, due to high centre of gravity, ability to damage pristine wilderness etc.
Any car can and will have the same result if driven wrecklesly. The majority of fatalities from high speed actually do not involve high performance cars but mundane daily drivers.
Oh and there were names we had for people that drove Lasers:p:twisted::eek:
Now do you likebing labeled?? I have had V8s since I was 17 and am not a dangerous or wreckless driver.
Oh and whatt about V8 Land Rovers, Supercharged Range Rovers and Turbo diesels??? Road bikes (most 250s will do 200kmph), power boats, jet skis etc

[ScottW]

There is never going to be a zero road toll. There are many time more cars on the road now than there was when you were young, and the road toll has been REDUCING for a fair few years. Crushing cars won't stop young people doing stupid things. More visible police will. Steed cameras are revenue raisers only. Where are the young people supposed to go though? Government and councils keep closing any place for people to go and get it out of their system. I'm sitting right now on a spot that used to be Surfers Paradise raceway. It, along with another half dozen or more tracks in the area have closed and nothing has replaces them. So what do you think is causing the problem? Where can I go to drive my car fast without travelling 2 hours?

Crushing cars will only do one thing. Stupid people will lost their mode of transpots, lose their job and end up on welfare, costing taxpayers more than the cars value. Turning to drugs and theft is also a good chance.

[Landy Smurf]

i have always thought why do we need cars that can do these speed when 110km/h is our fastest speed limit.i agree sometimes you need abit more power for towing and overtaking but a car shouldnt need to go faster then 140km/h reely they shouldnt need to go faster then 110km/h being a teenager at the moment i am glad that i have a defender permant 4 wheel drive

[Sparksdisco]

Oh and there were names we had for people that drove Lasers:p:twisted::eek:


I heard them all before:p

Any way i dident need a big,fast or, flash car to feel excepted, liked, more of a man or to get the girls.

;););):p:p:p

[Hymie]

However Hymie, I thanked your post, but would prefer no drunks on road. If they are over the limit they normally do not go to jail the first time, but too many drunk drivers are repeat offenders.

I've never been done for drink driving and have little sympathy for those that do.
I learned my lesson early on from the experience above, ie, the Police are always there and you will get caught.
Nowadays I will not get behind the wheel even after 1 drink.

[Ausfree]

[QUOTE=It'sNotWorthComplaining!;


I notice that it seems to be the young male drivers, you don't see too many females with Frangpanni stickers on their vehicles wrapped around trees or poles[/QUOTE]

The most mind numbing recent case of a hoon driver crashing and killing passengers in a vehicle happened a few weeks before Christmas last year when a female driver aged in her mid thirty's crashed and killed three passengers (she was the aunt to one of the deceased) and left another two with serious injuries ( that's right the car was overloaded) near Cessnock in NSW. It was on a well known local street used as a speedway for hoon drivers and this case stands out in my mind because of her age and she was female. AT WHAT AGE DO SOME PEOPLE GROW UP.:o:o She escaped virtually unhurt by the way.:mad: The vehicle was travelling at high speed and crashed off the road into a tree and the thing that gets me is that the crash site is about four hundred metres from a T-intersection how, she would have pulled up in time, I have no idea.:angry:

[Gillie]

Saddest thing I ever saw was a bloke crouched down by a cross on the side of the road with tears streaming down his face.

[Tank]

Yes I suppose your right it is a free country.
Hoons have the Free right to kill themselves and those of us that have no say in it.
Let's be barbaric and have no laws!
No disrepect BUT HAVE YOU EVER HAD ANY ONE CLOSE TO YOU KILLED IN A CAR ACCIDENT?
I HAVE TWICE -So don't preach about FREE WILL
The loved ones I lost had no right or freedom, they were taken BY SPEEDING OTHER DRIVERS!:mad::mad:

Yes your right, I should move to North Korea BEFORE SOME ONE BECOMES THE "HAT TRICK"

Who the **** is talking about Free Will, not me sport.
I'm talking about Knee Jerk, Dumb-arse laws that do NOTHING to curb the road toll, all they do is penalise the majority because of the brainless few.
Want ZERO ROAD TOLL, then BAN all motor vehicles, close all the roads, ****ing stupid isn't it, Regards Frank.

[loanrangie]

An XR6 is actually a very mundane car in terms of performance and as said just as a few more luxuries with no more power. On par with a Commodore V6 etc. There are a lot more high performance 4 cyl cars out there no one is questioning. Anyway what is wrong with having a nice car? Maybe we should include 4x4s in this debate, due to high centre of gravity, ability to damage pristine wilderness etc.
Any car can and will have the same result if driven wrecklesly. The majority of fatalities from high speed actually do not involve high performance cars but mundane daily drivers.
Oh and there were names we had for people that drove Lasers:p:twisted::eek:
Now do you likebing labeled?? I have had V8s since I was 17 and am not a dangerous or wreckless driver.
Oh and whatt about V8 Land Rovers, Supercharged Range Rovers and Turbo diesels??? Road bikes (most 250s will do 200kmph), power boats, jet skis etc

You gotta be kidding, an XR6 has heaps of torque in a vehicle with stiff suspension and great handling that sends you over the speed limit before you know it. Unfortunately most new cars are similar unless you are in a Terios or other waste of space, as far as i am concerned P platers should not be in any grey import jap sports cars like nissan silvia's/ toyota soarers etc. Of course we all know its not the car that kills but the idiot driving but even so dont give them the opportunity . Kids will always speed and drive stupidly to impress their mates just dont give them a shotgun when an air rifle will do.

[Disco_owner]

Why is it a government problem?,why do parents let thier kids have those types of cars?.When my son is 18 an buys a car he won't be buying any type of performance car,if he decides too and being a teenager he will he'll find all his cloths on the lawn and his room made into my study. Pat

Geez you're a hardman... pat.:p

[CraigE]

You gotta be kidding, an XR6 has heaps of torque in a vehicle with stiff suspension and great handling that sends you over the speed limit before you know it. Unfortunately most new cars are similar unless you are in a Terios or other waste of space, as far as i am concerned P platers should not be in any grey import jap sports cars like nissan silvia's/ toyota soarers etc. Of course we all know its not the car that kills but the idiot driving but even so dont give them the opportunity . Kids will always speed and drive stupidly to impress their mates just dont give them a shotgun when an air rifle will do.
Are you talking an XR6 or an XR6 Turbo? Because performance wise they are worlds appart. We looked at an XR6 and XR6 turbo options before buying the Stato and the XR6 in base form while it goes allright is by no means a performance car. If you think it is you have been driving Land Rovers too long.;) About on par with the V6 Commodore, Subaru Impezza base or Mitsubishi Lancer base, Toyota Aurion etc etc. The performance variants of these cars are something else. The XR6 Turbo is a different kettle of fish altogether.
The whole philosophy is floored as it does not take into account power to weight, just power. For example means when my daughter gets her license she can not borrow the Statesman at all. Even the D2 4litre V8 we hae in the drive. But she can go and drive a BMW, Merc etc that have smaller capacity but can cruise and accelerate a lot faster.
Rarely do you see HSVs, SSs and XR8 and XR6 Turbos at the wreckers. Most accidents involve ****ed middle age people in mundane shopping trolleys and 4x4s. Last 3 serious ones we attended involving speed of some sort were Hyunda Elantra, Mitsubishi Lancer and VP Holden Commodore executive V6. Yes some involve speed and one we had a while back involved a really nice but base model BF (XR model I think - base Falcon 6) that hit a drain at around 180kmph. Ofcourse performance car owners have accidents also, but not at any higher rate than any other particular car type owner and if anything less so.

[CraigE]

I heard them all before:p

Any way i dident need a big,fast or, flash car to feel excepted, liked, more of a man or to get the girls.

;););):p:p:p
That is actually my point. Each to their own. Just because you choose a Laser and I chose an SS Torana as our first cars, that does not make us any less anything, but it is a choice and you should not be imposing your thoughts or restrictions on others. Had no trouble being liked, picking up girls etc wether it was in my SS, my HQ bush pv or a mates new Merc, even in a Pajero. So I think that is irrelevant. Like saying you are over compensating by having a 4x4.:o:p
I just like Old Holdens and V8s. There are just as many 4cyl cars that can put out 300kw plus no problems.
I do agree with a power to weight restriction to a certain point, but my kids when they get their license should be able to borrow the LRs or the Stato.
Oh and my 83 grandmother drives a Laser:p:p:p:p

[Tote]

Are you talking an XR6 or an XR6 Turbo? Because performance wise they are worlds appart. We looked at an XR6 and XR6 turbo options before buying the Stato and the XR6 in base form while it goes allright is by no means a performance car. If you think it is you have been driving Land Rovers too long.;) About on par with the V6 Commodore, Subaru Impezza base or Mitsubishi Lancer base, Toyota Aurion etc etc. The performance variants of these cars are something else. The XR6 Turbo is a different kettle of fish altogether.
The whole philosophy is floored as it does not take into account power to weight, just power. For example means when my daughter gets her license she can not borrow the Statesman at all. Even the D2 4litre V8 we hae in the drive. But she can go and drive a BMW, Merc etc that have smaller capacity but can cruise and accelerate a lot faster.
Rarely do you see HSVs, SSs and XR8 and XR6 Turbos at the wreckers. Most accidents involve ****ed middle age people in mundane shopping trolleys and 4x4s. Last 3 serious ones we attended involving speed of some sort were Hyunda Elantra, Mitsubishi Lancer and VP Holden Commodore executive V6. Yes some involve speed and one we had a while back involved a really nice but base model BF (XR model I think - base Falcon 6) that hit a drain at around 180kmph. Ofcourse performance car owners have accidents also, but not at any higher rate than any other particular car type owner and if anything less so.

The Victorian P plate system does operate on a power to weight ratio and if the car was a normally aspirated XR6 it was legal for a P plater. NSW is a bit sillier with a blanket ban on V8s or petrol turbos regardless of power to weight except for a few oddball exceptions.
Regards,
Tote

[CraigE]

[QUOTE=
I notice that it seems to be the young male drivers, you don't see too many females with Frangpanni stickers on their vehicles wrapped around trees or poles[/QUOTE]
Actually you do. Come to a few MVAs and you will see very few are performance cars. Of course it does happen but in no where near the numbers you are inferring. Most are base model shopping trolleys and 4x4s. Most alcohol, drugs or fatigue, some speed but most at around or less than the posted limit. Very common to see Frangipanni cars in someones garden or fence.
The single biggest problem is alcohol and drug driving. Gravel roads are a common source of wrecks around here and most do not involve alcohol or speed.
Also look at the real stats, males generally spend many times more hours behind the wheel than females so ofcourse the proportion will be higher.
Not condoning reckless behaviour at all, but look at all the facts, not just a small part of the scenario and find a decent scenario. Until we start taking Drunk and Drug driving seriously we will not get anywhere even if we speed limit cars to 110kmph.

[pop058]

Just to clarify a point (which has been made several times already). The XR6 Falcon has exactly the same motor as a base model Falcon. It does have slightly different suspension, same brakes and better seating. I seriously doubt the better suspension package would make any difference. All other things (except the XR6) being the same, it still would have happen (unfortunately)

Paul

[td express]

Driving instructors do a great job of teaching the kids the right way to drive, but sometimes I wounder when teenage daughter comes home from driving lesson with comments like,

The instructor said I was the best driver he has had for a long time (made after 1 lesson).:question:

You will only need one more lesson your that good at driving.

With comments like this its no wounder they think they are bullet proof.


This scares me...and only cements my thoughts on the licence testing. People are taught how to pass a driving test, they are NOT taught how to drive a vehicle.
If you are going to be taught how to drive, then why arn't we for example, taught how to control a car in a spin, or under hard braking on a wet surface. Real stuff that really happens.
And if anyone thinks that by doing driver training this way only encourages drivers to do more of the same once they have their licence, then how is that any different to what go's on already, atleast they will have half a chance on how to control the vehicle as they have been taught how to.

Thats my 2 cents anyway..

[Sparksdisco]

That is actually my point. Each to their own. Just because you choose a Laser and I chose an SS Torana as our first cars, that does not make us any less anything, but it is a choice and you should not be imposing your thoughts or restrictions on others.


I see you have been a bit misguided by mmy post.

Where did it say I had a CHOICE?

Still liked it :p:p

[PAT303]

Geez you're a hardman... pat.:p

Mate I haven't spent alot of time and money,not mentioning the early sunday morning starts for soccer,cricket to have my son wrap himself around a tree before he has had kids that I will fill with lollies and red cordial before giving them back to get my revenge for having him!!!. Pat

[strangy]

i have always thought why do we need cars that can do these speed when 110km/h is our fastest speed limit.i agree sometimes you need abit more power for towing and overtaking but a car shouldnt need to go faster then 140km/h reely they shouldnt need to go faster then 110km/h being a teenager at the moment i am glad that i have a defender permant 4 wheel drive

No ...our fastest speed limit is 130km/hr. Have you ever tried to overtake a3 trailer road train travelling at 120?

[whitakerb]

why do parents let thier kids have those types of cars?

My first car was a little laser. best car i ever had

Apart from the disco :p:p:p

^^^^ X2 ^^^^

Stick to carby 4 cyls whilst on p plates

With the advent of all this fancy pathetic electrickertry run engines, The manufacturers have the power to limit the output of the cars at the owners choice. Parents can give the kids, the "kids keys" and dads lowered hotted HSV has 90KW, and traction control is set to super sticky...



Ben

[Disco_owner]

Mate I haven't spent alot of time and money,not mentioning the early sunday morning starts for soccer,cricket to have my son wrap himself around a tree before he has had kids that I will fill with lollies and red cordial before giving them back to get my revenge for having him!!!. Pat

Mate , let's hope It never has to come to that.:(

[Sprint]

I honestly cant believe the attitudes of some of the people in this thread, especially the OP.

Attitudes are the problem here, not the cars, not the speed, not the roads, not anything else

The ATTITUDES

about 3 years ago i was the third person to arrive at a MVA where Tony Farrel, 24 lost control of his camry on a slight bend at a speed police estimate to be 160-180, he put 2 wheels in the dirt on the wrong side of the road and overcorrected, hitting a power pole pretty much just in front of the B pillar, the car hit the pole hard enough to blow the rear window out, and pushed into the car roughly 2/3 across where the drivers seat would normally be, and the impact was so hard that while the pole pushed that far in, the front and rear wheels still appear to be in line with each other.....

First aid was on the scene literally on scene within a minute, an ambulance was on scene within 5 minutes, but the driver died in the car before he could be released, and you could hear the passenger screaming a block away when the ambo's got her out of the car. she died 3-4 days later from what i heard.

did it slow me down? for the first couple of days, yes

have i exceeded the posted speed limit in the last 7 days? yes, at times enough that if i had been caught, i would most probably be looking at a stint behind bars

why?

honestly?

Because I made my own judgement call, that the risks were minimal, clear weather, reasonable road condition, little if no traffic, well maintained car, little police presence, which meant, most importantly, little chance of getting caught (remember that bit)

was it a smart thing to do? not really...... hence why i usually travel the same road at 105-110km/h

what would have stopped me? the knowledge that at any point on my trip there would be a marked police presence on the road, complete with radar gun and ticket book...

a speed camera wouldnt have worked, i know exactly where they set up, and they have never changed thier routine at any time in the last 10 years, same for the normal patrol, yea..... 3-4 times a week, and no further than 20km from town, leaving me with 35km of highway to play around on.....

small fines? nope..... last time i got booked for speeding, it was for 113km/h in a 100 zone, nice clear day, great road, no traffic, cop gave me a lecture about the "life endangering offence" that I'd committed, issued me with my ticket and headed off in the opposite direction to me.... 2 minutes later i was doing 140, 5 minutes later i was OVERTAKEN by someone going FASTER than me.....

the threat of crushing my car wouldnt work...... given the possibility of losing something i value highly, for more reasons than just a means of getting to work? sorry..... i'm not gonna pull over if it means losing my car..... thats simply going too far..... go nuts with the ticket book, but reach for my keys, and you'll pry them out of my cold, dead fingers

there will allways be the mentality of "i wont get caught, so what can i possibly lose", and I'm as guilty as the next person

btw, i got my licence in a Subaru Brumby, first car i owned was an XF Falcon, 100% standard mechanically, but that NEVER stopped me from doing anything stupider than trying to crack 170..... the old girl simply wouldnt do it..... had more than a couple of sideways moments in it too..... spent more than a little time in some stove hot V8's that shouldve gotten me into more trouble than they did though.....

[Disco44]

Driving instructors do a great job of teaching the kids the right way to drive, but sometimes I wounder when teenage daughter comes home from driving lesson with comments like,

The instructor said I was the best driver he has had for a long time (made after 1 lesson).:question:

You will only need one more lesson your that good at driving.

With comments like this its no wounder they think they are bullet proof.
Yes I whole heartedly agree but with driving instructors,do they teach how to pass the exam or do they teach them how to drive. Two completely different scenarios That would take quite a few more lessons and most cannot afford the costs involved.
I know some good experienced drivers who if taken for a exam probably wouldn't pass it because the current tests are virtually out of the book not out of the real world of driving.
John .

[Sprint]

for those of you who want to criticise those who have modified thier cars, i suggest you best look amongst yourselves first, how many of you have suspension and body lift kits, big mud tyres, etc?

do you really think you are any different? sorry to burst your bubbles, but youre not, if anything, some modifications made to 4x4 vehicles to enhance thier performance OFF road are to the immense detriment to thier performance ON the road

big tyres = decreased acceleration and braking capacity, increased risk of rolling the tyre off the wheel under extreme cornering conditions (think swerving)
mud/off road tyres = less traction than equivalent highway pattern tread types
suspension lift = higher centre of gravity, increased tendancy to roll, decreased steering response, suspension and handling characteristics are often affected negatively
roof racks, roll cages, bull bars, long range tanks, strage drawers, etc..... all extra weight that alter your vehicles handling characteristics

just as a final thought for anyone who still believe that legislation will save lives

My local mechanic had purchased a mid 80's Saab 900 Turbo that he intended to let his son use for his first car, but when the P plater restrictions came in, because of that nasty lil turbo, his son wasnt allowed to drive it.

However, his son was still allowed to drive his LX Torana sedan....triple SU's, big exhaust, mags, wide tyres, etc..... more than a little time had been spent modifying it to be a competitive hillclimb/short circuit sprint car, fast enough to outrun more than a few of its V8 and turbo'd competition, but still 100% P plate driver legal, given that every one of its modifications were either an enhancement of a factory specification (suspension components) or a variation of an accepted factory fitment (the triple SU carburettors, factory fit in LC and LJ toranas)

Which would you rather your children drive? a tame, refined 4 cylinder european car with a reputation for safety, or a fire beathing weekend track warrior with a reputation for handling poorly? the difference being one is P plater legal, the other isnt......

[mark2]

As Craig said, be careful what you wish for..........

[slug_burner]

Personal responsibility is something we should not forget about. I don't want to live in a nanny state.

[rovercare]

My first car was a little laser. best car i ever had



Bloke I grew up with died in a ****box old Laser, trying to race another fella, so your point is mute, quite stupid actually

I grew up as a "hoon" still am actually, but grown up a bit, have recorded GPS speeds in my first car at 256km/hr, I always liked fast cars, had high speed pursuits on numerous occasions, lost my licence 6 times in 3 years, spent more time without a brief than with one..........what happened? well, getting old?, nah, I just got a little smarter;)

Also, banning performance cars is a joke, the people who I personally know that died in motor vehicle accidents were in a Laser, 85 RR, WR250, YZF426 and another ran over on his ninja whilst sitting at the traffic lights, by a drug induced driver

[Sparksdisco]

Bloke I grew up with died in a ****box old Laser, trying to race another fella, so your point is mute, quite stupid actually

I grew up as a "hoon" still am actually, but grown up a bit, have recorded GPS speeds in my first car at 256km/hr, I always liked fast cars, had high speed pursuits on numerous occasions, lost my licence 6 times in 3 years, spent more time without a brief than with one..........what happened? well, getting old?, nah, I just got a little smarter;)

Also, banning performance cars is a joke, the people who I personally know that died in motor vehicle accidents were in a Laser, 85 RR, WR250, YZF426 and another ran over on his ninja whilst sitting at the traffic lights, by a drug induced driver

I admire your honesty

Why did you do it?
Is it the speed the adreline rush. or because its wrong?

all of this speed could of been for good if it was on a race track

why run from the police and put even more people in danger?

[robzilla]

^^^^ X2 ^^^^

Stick to carby 4 cyls whilst on p plates

With the advent of all this fancy pathetic electrickertry run engines, The manufacturers have the power to limit the output of the cars at the owners choice. Parents can give the kids, the "kids keys" and dads lowered hotted HSV has 90KW, and traction control is set to super sticky...



Ben
X3!
spent my first year of P-plates in a mechanically stock Bluebird. couldn't speed in that thing if you tried! but even on wet roads with a heavy foot i found/exceeded the limits a couple of times...lesson learned.

after a year swapped in a fuel injected turbo 4-cylinder, and i have no trouble saying i probably would've killed myself if i'd done it straight away, instead of getting a year of driving experience first.

and all the fuss about XR6's, doesn't matter at all. we've got a BA Fairmont, Lexus IS300 and VR Berlina in the family and they're all more than enough to get you into trouble. all down toe driver attitude

[DeeJay]

OK, Here's my thoughts.
Youngsters ( and some older ones) will always chase the adrenalin rush, no matter what, so we need - as a society- to make it harder.
We have had GPS & vehicle tracking now for over 10 years.
I just bought the latest Garmin & it shows the speed limit area's ( not perfect though).
This idea is really big brother stuff and will happen in some form for offenders before long anyway IMHO.
I reckon for well under $500 a year, all new drivers have a unit installed on thier vehicle that logs thier travel. It has a user pin number that locks the ignition. Like a stolen car, it can be identified & shut down remotely.
(BTW Since 9/11 most fuel companies track thier trucks & an alert comes up if they deviate thier route, they also can be shut down remotely, also used for fatigue management - a driver will get rung & told to park up within 10 min as the company is shutting down the engine as a workcare requirement)
Police can then simply pull over any driver check the unit is operating & check recent logs - anything really- & act as needed.
If a unit is tampered with or not showing recent travel, then immediate vehicle confiscation.
A 10% incidence of speeding for example could attract a fine & another 12 months of monitoring.
The above is only a brief outline.
Either that or we accept 100 or so hooning deaths P.A. as the price we pay for a free go for all.

Yes its scary stuff...

[Sprint]

oh yes..... blame speeding for all the deaths....

i guess thats why the fatality rate in the Northern Territory skyrocketed when the 130 speed limit on the highways was introduced?

something thats allways made me wonder...... the local fuzz get to play with a speed camera every few weeks...... i havent seen it on the main street for at least 18 months, allways on the highway..... yet why am i getting overtaken constantly whenever i drive around town?

[rovercare]

I admire your honesty

Why did you do it?
Is it the speed the adreline rush. or because its wrong?

all of this speed could of been for good if it was on a race track

why run from the police and put even more people in danger?

Simple really, because its fun

Not sure if half the "older" people here realise, but the juvenile mind does not reason or hold logic the same as an older person, when your young, you think very little of the consequences, just the actions at the time, its part of youth, its not becuase they don;t care, its because they don;t think about it, my complete disregard for anything structured/authority has not been the reason I slowed down at all, its the fact I started to see the consequences to my actions, that is all,

You know, taking the GPS in your car, winding it out to see how fast it goes, making the small bends in the road, become fast flowing corners, for kilometres on end.......all in the wee hours of the morning, just isn;t something I want to do anymore? why?, things enter your head, what about the wombat you can't see or stop for, imagine hitting a rabbit heading through one of these bends/now corners at 250km/hr in a couple of ton of car, that's what everyone is thinking hey?

Not when your 18:twisted:

[Captain_Rightfoot]

What about not giving people a licence until they are 21. Wouldn't help entirely but most kids are slightly more sensible by then... :)

[Sprint]

What about not giving people a licence until they are 21. Wouldn't help entirely but most kids are slightly more sensible by then... :)

yup.... and that would stop soooooo many kids from driving

hey...... remind me, how old was the punk who stole lara bingles aston martin?

[3toes]

Think that based on the UK experience that limiting the cars a new driver can take the wheel of is at best a PR exercise. If this worked why is it that in a country where a new driver is limited to a 1.0 litre engine car they can still manage to maintain the highest deaths age group?

The engine size limitation is enforced not by government but by the insurance companies. As a new driver even a 5 year old 1.0 litre engine car will set you back a few thousand pounds to insure. Car itself will probably have cost less than the insurance. All drivers have to be nominated on the individual cars insurance policy so do not think you are going to get round it by driving your parents car.

[CraigE]

What about not giving people a licence until they are 21. Wouldn't help entirely but most kids are slightly more sensible by then... :)
Not the answer either in my opinion. Kids are working from 16 on, so how do you propose they get to work, Uni etc? Dont quote public transport as that only applies in major cities and I am not sure I would want my kids on it anyway on certain routes or times and it is not often convenient.
Everyone is quick to blame speed, but that is only one contributing factor. The point everyone misses is there is usually alcohol or drugs involved that increase the bravado and bullet proof attitude, then the speed comes into it.
My wife had a good suggestion, why not make the 0.02 P plate limit for alcohol and no drugs stay in play until drivers turn 22 or for later life drivers min 4-5 years from the time they get their license?
I reckon this would do more as long as it is enforced.
All alcohol and drug positives above set limits should be immediate loss of license, not depending on case.

[Landy Smurf]

Not the answer either in my opinion. Kids are working from 16 on, so how do you propose they get to work, Uni etc? Dont quote public transport as that only applies in major cities and I am not sure I would want my kids on it anyway on certain routes or times and it is not often convenient.
Everyone is quick to blame speed, but that is only one contributing factor. The point everyone misses is there is usually alcohol or drugs involved that increase the bravado and bullet proof attitude, then the speed comes into it.
My wife had a good suggestion, why not make the 0.02 P plate limit for alcohol and no drugs stay in play until drivers turn 22 or for later life drivers min 4-5 years from the time they get their license?
I reckon this would do more as long as it is enforced.
All alcohol and drug positives above set limits should be immediate loss of license, not depending on case.
the alcohol limit for P platers is zero

[CraigE]

the alcohol limit for P platers is zero
I think you will find it is 0.02 to allow for medications etc. I know this for sure in WA and am pretty sure it is the same Australia wide but is refered to as 0 most often.

[D-Fender]

I'm sick of the guvment and their knee-jerk reactions after stuff like the other day. On another forum people are talking about the guvment wanting to bring in curfews and crap like that.

This kid was driving with five passengers, that's more than the car can legally carry and he was only allowed one of those passengers with his Ps. He was driving an un-registered car under the influence of alchohol after screaming away from a party, apparently trying to get away from some 'gate crashers' who tried to chase them.

And people wonder why this kid crashed?

And the guvment bringing more laws in is stupid, as this kid has already proven his blatant disregard for the law, by breaking as many as he could, starting with driving an un-registered car!

What sort of parents let their son drive an un-registered car anyway?

Any more BS laws will just punush those who do care about their life and their friend's lives and actually obey the laws. The more laws are brought in, the more the 'good' people will suffer.

And the the idea of P-plater curfews I read on another forum. Half p-platers work nights so that idea has failed before it even was an idea.

This sort of crap ****es me off. An idiot breaks a few laws, and kills himself and all his friends who were stupid enough to get into the car, and then people want more laws.

[vnx205]

You're quite right about the fact that more legislation would not have stopped this bloke and a lot like him.

In one respect though it is not just a government knee jerk reaction. It is a society knee jerk reaction.

The politicians will only bring in more regulations if they think it will be electorally popular. It will only be electorally popular of enough people think it is a good idea.

People like to blame the government, but the government is usually only doing what a significant section of society wants. That is how they get re-elected.

It is not the government's fault. It is our fault. Of course I exclude you and me from that group because we can see the futility of it. It is everyone else's fault. :p

[MacMan]

This sort of crap ****es me off. An idiot breaks a few laws, and kills himself and all his friends who were stupid enough to get into the car, and then people want more laws.

I agree completely. Victoria is already enough of a Nanny State without having more laws put in place to be disregarded.

[willem]

Stupidity cant be banned unfortunately. Hindsight is great but I dare say a lot of can look back and say "geez we were lucky not to kill ourselves".

Instead of crushing their cars I would rather have the hoon be forced to watch his car being auctioned off at a redicuously low price (auction only available to people over 25) or perhaps some of the higer quality hoon cars could be used as under cover cop cars similar to the way that old cars are being recycled for speed cameras.

Being an ambo have dealt with similar cases but the most memorable was a cruiser ute full of teens rolling in a paddock whilst doing circle work. Not going very fast but when sitting in the tray you have a good chance of ending up squashed underneath the vehicle.

I remeber an accident a few years back where a car full of teens hit a bridge and one of the metal railings went straight through the car and through one of the passengers and making a horrible mess. This kid was well under 18 and his bogan family and friends made a roadside memorial for him - they all left cans of bundy rum!!

Nothing will be achieved until that particular mindset can be changed.

Exactly!

Willem

[willem]

I reckon the problem is that these kids are dislocated from the society around them, and therefore they just don't care. Not an arrogant 'don't care', but just that the welfare of others in society, and the welfare of society itself, is just not important to them. That's why they can do things that anti-social and it just doesn't bother them. That's why the mate of one of those guys killed was booked doing 165 kmh just a few hours later. Society, life, death ... just becomes unimportant. The now, the me, that's all there is.

Willem

[Jamo]

It wouldn't work! If you stared cruching (sic) cars then PETA would get all nasty!

Me, I say if it's fly blown then crutch it!

[whitakerb]

I think you will find it is 0.02 to allow for medications etc. I know this for sure in WA and am pretty sure it is the same Australia wide but is refered to as 0 most often.

The alcohol limit dropped to zero about 18 months ago when the Green P - Red P system came in. I was on my P-Plates at the time and the sent me a big long letter saying that as of X date, I wouldn't be able to drive after midnight, and this and that. But they did give me some shiney new p plates. I have been on the road now for 4 years, and in that time i have stayed within the laws to a reasonable extent, and have not had a ticket yet. (or even a warning)

I suppose at the end of the day, if someone who wants to go fast can't hot up his car, then he'll buy a bike and hot that up...

Ben

[Captain_Rightfoot]

You're quite right about the fact that more legislation would not have stopped this bloke and a lot like him.


Neither would some guy sitting sitting in a van with a speed camera watching TV or a digital camera on a pole.

As long as it gives people a warm feeling and the government money then it's all good! :wasntme:

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

I suppose at the end of the day, if someone who wants to go fast can't hot up his car, then he'll buy a bike and hot that up...

Ben
But he'll only kill himself or a pillion, not 3,4,5 or 6 &7 hidden in the boot.

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

Nearly got run over a short time ago, whilst walking. I was going to cross a road. but noticed a hoon coming at speed, he slowed down at the Stop Sign, but didn't stop then did the commodore fishtail left turn only to pull into a servo 15 metres away to fill up.
And we don't have a problem on our roads? He was just letting off boyish steam? that's the excuse some of you explain for justifying this behaviour isn't it. By the way the road he just speed into was full of peak hour traffic.

[twitchy]

Hitler was defeated, no NAZI state for me.
While I can not give any "Iron clad" fix, maybe just maybe, if the gumbyment spent some fine revenue on compulsory driver training, then a few more of our silly young buggers will live!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh & can we just change your handle to "Always complaining":p

[vnx205]

... ... ... ...
While I can not give any "Iron clad" fix, maybe just maybe, if the gumbyment spent some fine revenue on compulsory driver training, then a few more of our silly young buggers will live!!!!!!!!!!!!!
.. ... ... ... :p

I think the problem with that is that more accidents are caused by what people think they can do rather than what they really can do.

It's not about ability. It's about attitude.

When I was involved a few years back in some driver education (not diver training), it concentrated on making 16 - 17 year olds aware of important things that just might have affected their attitude towards owning, insuring and driving cars.. That approach had the support of the NRMA.

[slug_burner]

Nearly got run over a short time ago, whilst walking. I was going to cross a road. but noticed a hoon coming at speed, he slowed down at the Stop Sign, but didn't stop then did the commodore fishtail left turn only to pull into a servo 15 metres away to fill up.
And we don't have a problem on our roads? He was just letting off boyish steam? that's the excuse some of you explain for justifying this behaviour isn't it. By the way the road he just speed into was full of peak hour traffic.

Quick ban walking across the road, it nearly got you killed:twisted:

[rockyroad]

Every now and then I still feel the need for speed, only problem is we no longer have and speedy cars (defender and a barina).

I would have to say that apart from getting older the thing that has slowed me down the most is the price of petrol, I now aim for economy on the long highway trips rather than trying to overtake every car I come across.

The price of fuel has more of an impact on the way I drive then the cost of speeding fines.

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

Every now and then I still feel the need for speed, only problem is we no longer have and speedy cars (defender and a barina).

I would have to say that apart from getting older the thing that has slowed me down the most is the price of petrol, I now aim for economy on the long highway trips rather than trying to overtake every car I come across.

The price of fuel has more of an impact on the way I drive then the cost of speeding fines.

What about tyres, some of the mag wheels on hoon cars contain some expensive rubber, but they don't seem to care for the $$$$ they shred onto the bitumen doing their stupid burnouts and donuts.

[solmanic]

A few thoughts:...Speed limiting cars:
The argument that speed limiting cars is the solution to stop hooning makes as much sense as banning 4wds...Think about the similaraties between this statement and the desire to speed limit cars to 130 KM/H

Very few similarities as the 4WD argument relates to personal choice alone, and speed limiting relates to preventing vehicles from functioning illegally. There are plenty of public roads in Australia where you need a 4WD, but no public roads where you can do over 130km/h.


i have always thought why do we need cars that can do these speed when 110km/h is our fastest speed limit.i agree sometimes you need abit more power for towing and overtaking but a car shouldnt need to go faster then 140km/h reely they shouldnt need to go faster then 110km/h being a teenager at the moment i am glad that i have a defender permant 4 wheel drive

My point exactly. Why in such a nationally regulated industry, are cars allowed to come out of the factory or off the docks capable of doing double the maximum legal speed limit? The idea of owning a vehicle capable of 200km/h+ feeds the attitude problem vnx205 referred to encouraging people push down harder on the pedal just to see "what she's capable of" and show it off to their mates before wrapping it around a tree or another motorist.

[solmanic]

Every now and then I still feel the need for speed, only problem is we no longer have and speedy cars (defender and a barina).

Go Karting!

[solmanic]

Further to my last post... maybe free public go Kart tracks is the solution:thumbsup:

[Fusion]

All new drivers should be taught on gravel and wet road on how to control a car . Speed limiting won't work cos they will still do 100kph in a 50 zone given the chance .

As my Pop has said " A license allows you to drive . It doesn't mean you can drive".

If you want to slow down P platers then give them a 4cyl car with a carby on it not EFI . And keep it naturally aspirated under 1.8l engine .

[Tombie]

Yes I suppose your right it is a free country.
Hoons have the Free right to kill themselves and those of us that have no say in it.
Let's be barbaric and have no laws!
No disrepect BUT HAVE YOU EVER HAD ANY ONE CLOSE TO YOU KILLED IN A CAR ACCIDENT?
I HAVE TWICE -So don't preach about FREE WILL
The loved ones I lost had no right or freedom, they were taken BY SPEEDING OTHER DRIVERS!:mad::mad:


Yes, unfortunately I have..... Lost 2 in one accident.... 1 in another...

And had a Girlfriend nearly killed when hit by a DUI (0.182) doing 140km/h.
He was already suspended from driving for 10 years for multiple prior DUI.

Did it stop him driving? No... Car cost $500ish.... He was 30-40kmh over the limit....

No law was going to protect her...

Laws are in place - Jail time etc... Just need Judges with some BALLS to actually lock offenders up.

Speed always kills - No 2 stationary objects can ever collide.

As for ZERO blood alcohol - Too detailed... Most can handle a couple and function ok to drive (IMHO)
I've seen people under the limit incapable of walking! I've also seen people over the limit 'sober as a judge'...

Fatigue is worse - Tired people, especially hard worked, O/Time workers leaving work later... Less focused etc.... Or city people whose usual journey is 20-40min driving long stretches of rural roads/highways... They don't recognise the fatigue and dangers...

[Tombie]

All new drivers should be taught on gravel and wet road on how to control a car . Speed limiting won't work cos they will still do 100kph in a 50 zone given the chance .

As my Pop has said " A license allows you to drive . It doesn't mean you can drive".

If you want to slow down P platers then give them a 4cyl car with a carby on it not EFI . And keep it naturally aspirated under 1.8l engine .

Like my old Euro Escort?1.6L with Side draft Webs on it...

Good for sickening speeds in such a tin box car...

Sold it to a mate and it put him in hospital with 2 broken legs, busted ribs etc... He put it into a paddock and then a tree from around 180km/h.

[Tombie]

Why is it a government problem?,why do parents let thier kids have those types of cars?.When my son is 18 an buys a car he won't be buying any type of performance car,if he decides too and being a teenager he will he'll find all his cloths on the lawn and his room made into my study. Pat

Hahaha.....

My old man tried this on me in my teen years :)

SO I joined the Navy, Moved to Sydney and purchased a 750 Katana and a 308 Commodore :cool:

[Jamo]

Fatigue is the big killer in the country. Folks just seem to think they can drive further than they can.

The young tend to combine that with alcohol.

IMHO zero BAC should be the limit across the board for all drivers. Just because a dude looks OK and appears to be able to handle their grog doesn't mean they are alert enough.

As for the bad hoon element, I think in most cases you'll find training etc won't do anything. The 'damage' was probably done in early childhood. The brain ahs become hardwired.

[WhiteD3]

He would have blown 0.19:mad:

Death crash driver four times over limit - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/01/20/2796615.htm)

[solmanic]

IMHO zero BAC should be the limit across the board for all drivers. Just because a dude looks OK and appears to be able to handle their grog doesn't mean they are alert enough.

Agree. A friend of a friend got busted for blowing 0.051 and he had no way of knowing he was that close to the limit. Zero BAC is a fairly easy number to guesstimate... "have I had anything to drink in the past 24 hours?" - yes? - then don't drive.


...But then I say this as a total non-drinker... if they enforced this for coffee then I would be rooted!

[Tombie]

Agree. A friend of a friend got busted for blowing 0.051 and he had no way of knowing he was that close to the limit. Zero BAC is a fairly easy number to guesstimate... "have I had anything to drink in the past 24 hours?" - yes? - then don't drive.


...But then I say this as a total non-drinker... if they enforced this for coffee then I would be rooted!

Its quite unrealistic....

% of People unable to drive under 0.05BAC would be very low...
% of accidents where persons were intoxicated vs ok???

Zero blood alcohol would close 95% of Cafe', restaraunt, clubs (sporting, social etc) down..... Or send them to the wall....

Country town pubs would all but dry up and close due to lost lunch patronage...


What's the next phase? If you haven't slept in 8 hours you'll be done for DWAR - Driving Without Adequate Rest? They say its as dangerous as being over 0.05...


No matter what, there will be someone, somewhere who lost a loved one due to; a car accident, Drunk Driver, Plane Crash, Boating accident, Gunshot, Drug overdose, Dog attack, Motorcycle accident, bad fall, abseiling gear failure, parachute failing to open,falling space turd etc....

We cannot legislate everything, as it will reduce our ability to live.
All freedoms come with a price... Unfortunately death is one of those prices...

So get busy living, you're already busy dying.

[robzilla]

He would have blown 0.19:mad:

Death crash driver four times over limit - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/01/20/2796615.htm)
yeh just heard that on the radio as well.
so he was excessively speeding, carrying 5 passengars and almost 4 times the legal limit, he pretty much signed his death certificate the moment he got in the car.

no amount of laws and legislation would've stopped it from happening

[willem]

yeh just heard that on the radio as well.
so he was excessively speeding, carrying 5 passengars and almost 4 times the legal limit, he pretty much signed his death certificate the moment he got in the car.

no amount of laws and legislation would've stopped it from happening

Signed four other death certificates at the time. :(:(:(:(:(

The laws against this happening were already in place ... they just ignored them.

Willem

[Tombie]

Signed four other death certificates at the time. :(:(:(:(:(

The laws against this happening were already in place ... they just ignored them.

Willem

not quite!!!

5 people signed their own death certificates.
The responsibility begins with yourself!!!
Any one of them could have said "you're too drunk", taken the keys or just simply NOT got into the vehicle.

Yes, the driver was the final cause of the incident, but the others all had freedom of choice too.

[rovercare]

not quite!!!

5 people signed their own death certificates.
The responsibility begins with yourself!!!
Any one of them could have said "you're too drunk", taken the keys or just simply NOT got into the vehicle.

Yes, the driver was the final cause of the incident, but the others all had freedom of choice too.

Correct

Some times people make bad choices, sometimes those choices made, they pay the ultimate price for

[alien]

Correct

Some times people make bad choices, sometimes those choices made, they pay the ultimate price for

This is so close to the truth of it.
I have watched this thread with interest and thankyou for the way it has gone.
I don't want to say to much but it appears that some of the passengers didn't know the driver.
The ride they got fell through(not going into it) so they "hitched" a ride with someone going past their suburb.
Who has got a lift not knowing the drivers abilities/impediments? I know I have.

It will be quiet reflectfull day tomorrow as a work colleague does the hardest thing IMHO and buries his son.

My condolence goes to all the families involved.

[jerryd]

I personally think that the young "hoons" as you call them should be restricted to small engined cars with a high insurance policy, which reduces with every good year of driving, ie. "no claims"
Why should a new driver be allowed to drive such powerful cars with no experience ??

In my youth and a need for speed I did it on a race circuit or go karting, as a member of a car club we did an exercise with the local police, advanced driving.

I also think that Australian roads aren't really built for speed, I can recall zipping along at 140+mph in england :wasntme: but I wouldn't dare do it over here

[Sleepy]

T
Who has got a lift not knowing the drivers abilities/impediments? I know I have.


Spot on Kyle. I have even paid for rides that scare the hell out of me.:eek2:

[CraigE]

I personally think that the young "hoons" as you call them should be restricted to small engined cars with a high insurance policy, which reduces with every good year of driving, ie. "no claims"
Why should a new driver be allowed to drive such powerful cars with no experience ??

In my youth and a need for speed I did it on a race circuit or go karting, as a member of a car club we did an exercise with the local police, advanced driving.

I also think that Australian roads aren't really built for speed, I can recall zipping along at 140+mph in england :wasntme: but I wouldn't dare do it over here
Again an XR6 is not a high powered car. They go OK but are not high powered by any stretch of the imagination.

[THE BOOGER]

Compared to a hyundai X2 that can do the speed limit but not much else they are high powered its all relative they both carry the same number of passengers but some cars simply will not do 140 with 6 people in them

[HSVRangie]

crushing cars is not the answer.

this is just window dressing LOOK we are doing something.

put more MARKED police cars on the road. nothing makes you slow down like a marked cop car.

education wont work. BOYS are indistructable.

Family life may help more so not sure but??

Drink driving self inflicted.

on the case of the 5 driver was 4 times adult limit, wonder what the passengers were.

Michael.

[D-Fender]

put more MARKED police cars on the road. nothing makes you slow down like a marked cop car.

Yes. Kill a ton of birds with the one stone. This would reduce a lot of crimes, assaults and whatnot, as well as slowing down people on the roads.

[mns488]

The mind boggles trying to think why on earth someone would do this:o:


"A motorist has been caught almost six times over the legal limit outside the funeral for one of five teens killed in a car driven by a drunk driver at Mill Park."

Drunk driver causes havoc at crash funeral (http://www.theage.com.au/national/drunk-driver-causes-havoc-at-crash-funeral-20100121-mmyn.html)

[Tank]

Yes. Kill a ton of birds with the one stone. This would reduce a lot of crimes, assaults and whatnot, as well as slowing down people on the roads.
More Police cars showing the colours would certainly help, but State govt. policy dictates revenue raising is more important than lives, they want cops hiding with radar guns and unmarked cars to bring in the loot, it's not the Cops fault, they are just following orders.
We need Driver Education in schools to change the "Mindset" that prevails and we need proper driver skills training, not the crap setup we have now.
Driving school instructors only teach enough to get past the licence test.
My son was taught to give way to his right at roundabouts, which is totally wrong, but it will get you through the test, also have you noticed how most people when turning right swing way to the left before turning right, as if they were driving a semi-trailer, another trick to please the licence test inspector.
All these so called Driving Schools are teaching incorrect driving right from the start.
Education in schools from say age 10 till leaving to change attitudes and compulsory off (driver training track) and on road driver training so as to cope with all circumstances that WILL happen in the real world. Regards Frank.

[BigJon]

My son was taught to give way to his right at roundabouts, which is totally wrong, but it will get you through the test,

What is the correct thing to do?

[DeeJay]

What is the correct thing to do?

Low 2nd if the bricks in the middle are more than 3 high, otherwise 2nd gear, hang on & straight through !!!:angel:

[Tank]

What is the correct thing to do?
1st. Slow down when approaching a roundabout.
2nd. GIVE WAY to vehicles IN the roundabout or entering the roundabout.
3rd. Indicate left when leaving roundabout.
Regards Frank.

[Tombie]

1st. Slow down when approaching a roundabout.
2nd. GIVE WAY to vehicles IN the roundabout or entering the roundabout. From the Right
3rd. Indicate left when leaving roundabout.
Regards Frank.

So just a loose translation of the above is taught...

And far better than to race into a roundabout and get it wrong!

Swinging left to turn right in SA would get you a fail ;)

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

The mind boggles trying to think why on earth someone would do this:o:


"A motorist has been caught almost six times over the legal limit outside the funeral for one of five teens killed in a car driven by a drunk driver at Mill Park."

Drunk driver causes havoc at crash funeral (http://www.theage.com.au/national/drunk-driver-causes-havoc-at-crash-funeral-20100121-mmyn.html)
And those girls have a mouth!. Not some one I would like to take home to mother.
Today's youth, is supposed to be our future? :eek: One thing is they have an attitude, me, me, me and stuff everyone else.
I wonder how many Bundies and coke will be consumed at the wake, and then let's play tribute to our fallen comrade by doing some burn outs and hooning! I hope that won't be the case.
Welcome to Bogunville?

[THE BOOGER]

If someone enters or is on a round about on your left if they are 1st you have to give way have to give way, all cars on the round about before you in NSW anyway:)
And if you have to cross white lines on two lane round about you must signal as well as give way to cars in that lane not just exit though their side door

[JohnF]

Its quite unrealistic....

% of People unable to drive under 0.05BAC would be very low...
% of accidents where persons were intoxicated vs ok???

Zero blood alcohol would close 95% of Cafe', restaraunt, clubs (sporting, social etc) down..... Or send them to the wall....

Country town pubs would all but dry up and close due to lost lunch patronage...[/B]

I do doubt that a zero blood alcohol limit would cause businesses to close. A zero limit would just boost bus and taxi services as people would still drink.

Tote, as far as your post on page 3 of this thread. A zero limit is alread enforcable on Aeroplane Pilots, Bus and truck drivers, and on P-plate drivers.
So it would not be a nightmare for the government to enforce a zero alcohol limit.

If you are going to take a lot of alcohol containg medications or eat those Rum Balls, you would then need to catch a Bus or Cab, or have a designated driver.

[BigJon]

1st. Slow down when approaching a roundabout.
2nd. GIVE WAY to vehicles IN the roundabout or entering the roundabout.
3rd. Indicate left when leaving roundabout.
Regards Frank.

As Tombie said, translating that into one sentence gives "give way to your right".

Unless someone is going the wrong way :eek: it isn't possible for them to appraoch you on your left in a roundabout.

I always indicate left when leaving a roundabout and I find it annoying when others don't (very common in Horsham and there are lots of roundabouts here).

[THE BOOGER]

unfortunatly some people enter round abouts at 60 +kph so cars starting from stop may be on 1st but get rear ended or side swiped from the right even though they have right of way it becomes a race to see can get their wheels on 1st see it all the time i drive 300 + ks per shift used to make good money spotting for towies but rostered tows stopped that:(

[BigJon]

I still can't see how you can get hit from the right if you are giving way to your right.

[THE BOOGER]

In NSW the law says give way to veh already on the round about not give way to the right have seen plenty of cars hit on the right but they were in the right just means sombody was driving way to fast

[BigJon]

I am OK with giving way to vehicles already on the roundabout.
My point is that you travel in a clockwise direction.
Therefore if you are waiting to enter a roundabout, all oncoming traffic will approach on your right.
Ipsofacto, giving way to vehicles already on the roundabout and giving way to your right work out to be the same thing.

[Tank]

I am OK with giving way to vehicles already on the roundabout.
My point is that you travel in a clockwise direction.
Therefore if you are waiting to enter a roundabout, all oncoming traffic will approach on your right.
Ipsofacto, giving way to vehicles already on the roundabout and giving way to your right work out to be the same thing.
At a 4 road or cross intersection if a vehicle entering a roundabout is doing so from the street on your left i.e. at 9 o'clock or from a westerly direction if you're heading north and they enter the roundabout before you THEN you must give way EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE ON THEIR RIGHT. Christ it couldn't be simpler, GIVE WAY TO VEHICLES IN OR ENTERING THE ROUNDABOUT. Regards frank.

[CraigE]

Compared to a hyundai X2 that can do the speed limit but not much else they are high powered its all relative they both carry the same number of passengers but some cars simply will not do 140 with 6 people in them
Yes but that is just semantics. An XR6 is not as powerful as a XR6 Turbo which is not as powerful as a HSV GTS, Which is not as powerfull as a HSV GTS 427 which is not as powerful as Aston Martin DB9 and so on and so on. I am getting really of tired of people calling a nice looking car high powered fro dramatisation sake.
An XR6 is well within the limits for a P plater so why moan about that facet. Concentrate on the real issue, the driver was under the influence of alcohol, speeding, driving an unregistered car, driving while under suspension, unrestrained passengers. All of these things caused the accident not the fact it is an XR6 or a nice flash car. I am sorry but a basic Hyundai Elantra will do this type of speed and probablly a lot more. Until you start getting to the top end of the market horsepower wise acceleration is irrelevant.

[BigJon]

At a 4 road or cross intersection if a vehicle entering a roundabout is doing so from the street on your left i.e. at 9 o'clock or from a westerly direction if you're heading north and they enter the roundabout before you THEN you must give way EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE ON THEIR RIGHT. Christ it couldn't be simpler, GIVE WAY TO VEHICLES IN OR ENTERING THE ROUNDABOUT. Regards frank.


Yes, and by the time they get to a point in the roundabout where you have to give way (say to avoid a collision) then they are on your right and the standard give way to the right rule applies. I am sure that if we ever meet at a roundabout we won't have any trouble :D.

[THE BOOGER]

Understand your point craig maybe it should be like bikes and based on power to weight as a bike rider i know what my sons cbr250 r will do so even that is not the total solution have to change attitudes like they did with smoking:)

[THE BOOGER]

Bigjon we have some very small roundabouts up here where the enty and exit may only be 10m from each other but the main prob is speeding to be 1st on:)

[Sleepy]

I think where the confusion arises is in the definition of "Give Way".

As mentioned earlier if the vehicle enter from the west and I am heading north I don't have to wait for him, I just have to give way to him. Subtle, but important difference.

Next question,

Can you enter a round about and complete a 180 degree turn? Or is this completing a U turn in an intersection?

[THE BOOGER]

dont ask hard questions we drive landrovers:angel:

[BigJon]

Can you enter a round about and complete a 180 degree turn? Or is this completing a U turn in an intersection?

Of course you can.. well I do anyway.

[MacMan]

I am not in support of any idea that it's OK for any government to destroy or take property that does not belong to them when it was legally purchased by an individual.

Apart from the fact that I think it sets a very unsettling precedent, if you look at the demographics here, putting a young bloke into the red for a car that he no longer has but owes money for sets him up for a fair bit of hardship. Some guys put in this position might learn their lesson straight away, others will take more time and others still will keep digging themselves a hole without learning a thing. It's these guys who can become a greater burden on society than they already are, and STILL not change the original problem.

I'm a strong believer in not sugar coating things. Make them spend time doing volunteer work in a situation where they get to see what happens when "fun" goes wrong. Taking away property does not do anything to really join the dots. It's a colossal smack in the head without making it explicitly clear why they are being smacked. Young folk can be plenty dense - we've all been there. Think about what would have really communicated rather than aggravated.

For serious repeat offenders, I think imprisonment should be closer than it is at the moment.

[Sparksdisco]

I hate people who indercate into the roundabout if they are going straight as it congests the roundabout and causes confusion. especialy if they then dont indercate out of it.

[rovercare]

I personally think that the young "hoons" as you call them should be restricted to small engined cars with a high insurance policy, which reduces with every good year of driving, ie. "no claims"
Why should a new driver be allowed to drive such powerful cars with no experience ??

In my youth and a need for speed I did it on a race circuit or go karting, as a member of a car club we did an exercise with the local police, advanced driving.

I also think that Australian roads aren't really built for speed, I can recall zipping along at 140+mph in england :wasntme: but I wouldn't dare do it over here

How would High insurance premiums work? seriously?

I haven;t had insurance on a motor vehicle for 5 years, I was null and void for most all that time, from my driving record, I was actually null and void since I was 18, but kept a policy for others driving my cars, I've towed cars and car trailers through city traffic, I've driven alot of kilometres, but I can assure you, once the policy price is "out of reach" you will not have a policy....not the answer

[MacMan]

+1, and why the hell should insurance companies make money out of what is a fairly significant social and public safety issue.

[Tote]

I do doubt that a zero blood alcohol limit would cause businesses to close. A zero limit would just boost bus and taxi services as people would still drink.

Tote, as far as your post on page 3 of this thread. A zero limit is alread enforcable on Aeroplane Pilots, Bus and truck drivers, and on P-plate drivers.
So it would not be a nightmare for the government to enforce a zero alcohol limit.

If you are going to take a lot of alcohol containg medications or eat those Rum Balls, you would then need to catch a Bus or Cab, or have a designated driver.

Point taken, however what benefit does a zero BAC provide over .02 which is in most cases less than one standard drink? Fatigue would be a much greater risk than that concentration of Alcohol and the cost of prosecuting cases combined with the loss of productivity in the community as people lose jobs etc is not worth the gains in my opinion.
In a workplace you are playing with a different set of rules where there is no expectation that alcohol would be consumed on the worksite and my experience of Northparkes Mine is that employees are encouraged to ensure that they are under the limit when they start and are given the opportunity to ensure that they are before commencing shift. If they are positive for Alcohol they are given the opportunity to not start work, a very differnt approach to Mr Plod if you blew .01 in a car and were at a zero limit.
In NSW only L and P plate drivers are zero BAC, all others are .02 or .05 and it could be argued that the majority of L and P plate derivers are probably under 18 and shouldnt be drinking anyway.

Regards,
Tote

Regards,
Tote

[jerryd]

[QUOTE=rovercare;1163588]How would High insurance premiums work? seriously?

The young driver would have to produce his/her insurance policy everytime they wanted to pay for the rego sticker. No insurance policy no rego sticker.
After 12months their premium drops if they had no accidents, after 2 years it drops again and so on until they reach maximum no claims discount.

1 in 5 drivers are involved in a crash during their first year on the road

male drivers under 21 are 10 times more likely to have a car accident than male drivers aged 35 and over

young drivers have a higher proportion of crashes at night than older drivers

1 in 8 british drivers are under 25, but a quarter of drivers who die in traffic collisions are in this age group :eek:

in 2007, 40% of passengers killed or seriously injured - meaning lost limbs, paralysis, brain injury and other life-changing injuries - were in a car driven by a young driver


Maybe the police or goverment should promote better driving for youngsters once they've passed their test, eg. night driving, motorway driving, car control, all weather driving. Maybe a certificate could be gained which could reduce their insurance premiums. Surely education would be the way to go for most new drivers.

[BigJon]

jerryd, I still can't see it making a lick of difference. They will just drive cars registered in someone elses name to get around paying for the high insurance. I also agree with posts above, why should insurance companies increase their profits this way?

At the end of the day it is difficult (impossible?) to control behaviour with legislation.

I agree that driver training is a huge issue, but it will never change (in my opinion) because the changes required would be unpopular. Governments don't like to take unpopular steps, it means they lose the next election!

[THE BOOGER]

govt hates anything unpopular but thats our fault we dont like anything that effects us, remember it only take 5 people in 100 to change a govt so it dosnt have to be that unpopular to make a big difference to the govt;)
ultimatly it is US that has to make the unpopular decions.:(

[BMKal]

Next question,

Can you enter a round about and complete a 180 degree turn? Or is this completing a U turn in an intersection?

You must be allowed to.

My Mrs often enters a roundabout and does at least two or three complete circuits before she makes up her mind which exit she wants to take. :p

[3toes]

[QUOTE=rovercare;1163588]How would High insurance premiums work? seriously?

The young driver would have to produce his/her insurance policy everytime they wanted to pay for the rego sticker. No insurance policy no rego sticker. After 12months their premium drops if they had no accidents, after 2 years it drops again and so on until they reach maximum no claims discount.

1 in 5 drivers are involved in a crash during their first year on the road

male drivers under 21 are 10 times more likely to have a car accident than male drivers aged 35 and over

young drivers have a higher proportion of crashes at night than older drivers

1 in 8 british drivers are under 25, but a quarter of drivers who die in traffic collisions are in this age group :eek:

in 2007, 40% of passengers killed or seriously injured - meaning lost limbs, paralysis, brain injury and other life-changing injuries - were in a car driven by a young driver

Maybe the police or goverment should promote better driving for youngsters once they've passed their test, eg. night driving, motorway driving, car control, all weather driving. Maybe a certificate could be gained which could reduce their insurance premiums. Surely education would be the way to go for most new drivers.


Now as you have to show your insurance to be able to pay the Tax (rego) on your car how can it be that according to the BBC there are 1.7m uninsured drivers on the road here in the UK . In the UK you have to name all drivers to be covered for the individual car on the policy. In the largest cities they estimate that up to 13% of drivers are uninsured. Would suggest that by definition this would also mean no car tax either. Mostly this is because insurance is too expensive - just because you attempt to price them off the road does not mean that people do not drive though.

As shown above putting young drivers in higher insurance brackets and behind the wheel of low powered 1.0 litre engine cars has not worked here in the UK.

[strangy]

You must be allowed to.

My Mrs often enters a roundabout and does at least two or three complete circuits before she makes up her mind which exit she wants to take. :p

Roundabouts are like autopilots,
If you are not sure which way to go, you just leave your wheels in the gutter,
when the car is guded out of the roundabout,
you will end up going the right way.

[CraigE]

[QUOTE=rovercare;1163588]How would High insurance premiums work? seriously?

The young driver would have to produce his/her insurance policy everytime they wanted to pay for the rego sticker. No insurance policy no rego sticker.
After 12months their premium drops if they had no accidents, after 2 years it drops again and so on until they reach maximum no claims discount.

1 in 5 drivers are involved in a crash during their first year on the road

male drivers under 21 are 10 times more likely to have a car accident than male drivers aged 35 and over

young drivers have a higher proportion of crashes at night than older drivers

1 in 8 british drivers are under 25, but a quarter of drivers who die in traffic collisions are in this age group :eek:

in 2007, 40% of passengers killed or seriously injured - meaning lost limbs, paralysis, brain injury and other life-changing injuries - were in a car driven by a young driver


Maybe the police or goverment should promote better driving for youngsters once they've passed their test, eg. night driving, motorway driving, car control, all weather driving. Maybe a certificate could be gained which could reduce their insurance premiums. Surely education would be the way to go for most new drivers.
High insurance is not the answer as you can bet your life it will flow onto us all. All this does is make people poorer. does not achieve anything. What happens when they have an accident/car crash that was not attributable to any illegal activity or traffic offence or someone hits them and is uninsured or takes off? Their insurance premiums become unobtainable. They are nearly at that point now. Look at the cost of insurance and rego now for low income earners and families and we wonder why so many people are uninsured? Raising insurance, crushing cars (especially if it does not belong to the driver) is not the answer but a knee jerk, simplistic approach to the problem. There needs to be some lateral thinking here. It is a problem that has no easy solution with the potential for first time offenders to pay a high price. Habitual offenders need to be dealt with on a different scale. Any way the real case in point is certain people will not learn their lesson no matter what you do and the case that is generally being refered to here has many root causes with the main one the driver had a flagrant disregard for the law. The main one it comes back to in the majority of these cases is they are alcohol related, which exacerbates the other problems.
I think this is the governments soft way out to appear to be doing something as it is an easy play. Will be interesting when some one with money and good legal representation challenges it. The governments just seem inept at tackling the real problem which is alcohol and drug driving. Then do we do the same with fatigue??

[BigJon]

My Mrs often enters a roundabout and does at least two or three complete circuits before she makes up her mind which exit she wants to take. :p

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

[rovercare]

The young driver would have to produce his/her insurance policy everytime they wanted to pay for the rego sticker. No insurance policy no rego sticker.
.

So I;d just drive without reg? I mean, I drove probably a culminative period of well over 2 years without a licence, again, won;t work

[Tank]

Brian, good one mate, but I wouldn't let your Better Half see your post, LOL, Regards Frank.

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

On news tonight 2 more hoons crash.
Foster Vic 2 x 15 yr old girls driving along a straight stretch of road hit a concrete power pole and snap itoff at the base, estimated speed of 150 kph and they lost control.
Seen by witnesses earlier hooning!.
Foster Police ask When are they going to learn.
Hmmmmm:confused::confused::confused::confused::con fused::confused::confused:

[alien]

Foster Police ask When are they going to learn.
Hmmmmm:confused::confused::confused::confused::con fused::confused::confused:

Thats easy to answer...
WHEN they are woried about the repercussions of their actions.

It's as we grow older that we think of these things.
Ever watched children on a play ground?
The 3 year old climbs onto and over anything,
The 5 year old climbs also but is aware of falling of and getting hurt.

As for driving..respect of the car and other road users is not taught.
To much of a "give me" society that we have evolved into IMHO.
I often hear "It's my right to drive" not "I'm privileged to have a licence".

Last thought..
"If only I knew at 18 as much as my kids think they do at 18"

[Sprint]

On news tonight 2 more hoons crash.
Foster Vic 2 x 15 yr old girls driving along a straight stretch of road hit a concrete power pole and snap itoff at the base, estimated speed of 150 kph and they lost control.
Seen by witnesses earlier hooning!.
Foster Police ask When are they going to learn.
Hmmmmm:confused::confused::confused::confused::con fused::confused::confused:

so what do you propose wouldve stopped these 2 girls from doing what they did? being 15, neither shouldve been driving to start with......

[CraigE]

On news tonight 2 more hoons crash.
Foster Vic 2 x 15 yr old girls driving along a straight stretch of road hit a concrete power pole and snap itoff at the base, estimated speed of 150 kph and they lost control.
Seen by witnesses earlier hooning!.
Foster Police ask When are they going to learn.
Hmmmmm:confused::confused::confused::confused::con fused::confused::confused:
I would have thought that to be a hoon, you would have to first have a license??