HELP! Kids are cooking - need better aircon

[Ranga]

I know this hsa been posted before, but here goes...

Well, normally aircon doesn't interest me - I'd rather have the window open.

However, as most of you already know, the Defender aircon is ordinary at best, and despite putting up some PVC over the cargo barrier in the 110, it's still very hot in the back seats.

I really need to do something about this, as simply put it's unbearable for the kids in the back on days like today (about 35 degrees), and should I want to do the Birdsville track again (or similar), it just won't be feasible.

My aircon does get quite cold, but the fan just doesn't push out enough air. I understand that with more airflow, it might not cool down as well, but I reckon that the first thing I should try is somehow pumping more air through.

Does anybody know how to fix this problem?

Alternatively, did anyone end up installing an aftermarket option, such as the roof-mount jobs?

If I can't fix this, I'll need to move to another vehicle (heaven forbid!) probably a Disco or even a Rangie.

[Barra1]

A few easy fixes:

Tint the windows with the "good stuff' - that is stopping the UV rays.

Address the problem of radiant heat. Just touch the metal behind the Console Box and you will know what I mean.

I have lined quite a substantial area under the car with aluminium backed close-density foam and it has fixed the problem. Many will opt for insulating the mats etc (which I have done - primarily to reduce noise) but I have found actually insulating the desired area under the car is most effective. In addition, the large muffler is an extraordinary large "heat-table" - give it the flick. I replaced it with a Vortex Muffler (a cylinder therefore reducing the heat-table).

Insulate the roof - there is a great thread on this somewhere.

I know this reply seems like a "mine is best' reply - but it works. Especially the window tinting - I was sceptical in this regard but a "true believer" now.;)

[The ho har's]

Have you opened the back cab widows....works a treat

we very rarely use the air con and we travel all over AUS...vents open..back cab windows open ..the breeze what ever temp it is at flows freely

works a treat:D


sorry 110 not 130 oops


Mrs hh:angel:

[Ranga]

I actually mentioned tinting the windows to the wife on the way home today. Maybe it's worth a try.

I never thought of insulation. Might give that a try also.

We have a sunroof (yes, on a Defender!), but you can't open it with the roof rack on. The back was fully loaded, so I'm not sure if the cab windows open would make a difference, but again, worth a try.

Barra1 - do you have any photos to give me a better idea of how you did it?

[Blknight.aus]

I sorted big reds by means of removing the middle left vent and making up a duct with a return fan from the back of the cab.

I had the advantage of tinting to start with.

it got the whole cab of a red 110 cool enough that I could sleep in the back on the way to emerald from townsville.

[Barra1]

Will do the photos tomorrow arvo.:)

And Dave gave me that idea with the vent - it works - forgot to mention that.

I suppose it is all about making the air-con more effective - it does have a tough job.:(

[Mellow Yellow]

G'Day Barra1

Your post was very helpful as I've got a similar problem.

I'd figured out that I needed to insulate under the car but was unsure what to do it with.

So, any chance of details on the "aluminium backed close-density foam" along with the pics?

Ta!

[Ranga]

I sorted big reds by means of removing the middle left vent and making up a duct with a return fan from the back of the cab.

I had the advantage of tinting to start with.

it got the whole cab of a red 110 cool enough that I could sleep in the back on the way to emerald from townsville.

Thanks Dave - but I can't quite visualise what you mean. Any chance of photos?

[5teve]

on the tinting... our new defender is tinted... very very tinted... i think the previous owner was going for the pimp ride look...

i find although it does reduce heat a bit its that dark that it actually radiates due to the windows being black.. the other thing i struggle with is the internal reflections in it at night... its hard to see through and you get reflection coming over from the passenger side through the front window... im getting used to it.

sorry i cant offer any more help as its normally windows down for us!

Thanks

Steve

[TwoUp]

I have a roof mounted (Red Dot) that works well and cools much better than standard, even if the evaporator and fan are standard. It just keeps pumping out cold air and haven just carried an elderly gent to Cairns and back on the weekend can atest that the rear was cool, comfortable.

Secondly I have an ARB roof rack and bolted to it is construction ply (been there for about 5 years), this also helps to keep the car cool.

Finally I have 80% green shade cloth as curtains in the rear afixed by velcro dots. This adds to the cooling and is easy to clean, just take it out and hose then replace to dry. Easy.

Will post some pics.

Regards,
PeterW

[Ranga]

on the tinting... our new defender is tinted... very very tinted... i think the previous owner was going for the pimp ride look...

i find although it does reduce heat a bit its that dark that it actually radiates due to the windows being black.. the other thing i struggle with is the internal reflections in it at night... its hard to see through and you get reflection coming over from the passenger side through the front window... im getting used to it.

sorry i cant offer any more help as its normally windows down for us!

Thanks

Steve

The impact on vision is what worried me about tinting.

On the other hand, I'm lead to believe you can get UV tinting that cuts out most of the harm from the sun - handy to stop the little ones getting burnt if I can then remove the window sox that flap around and annoy me.

[Ranga]

Just called a tinting company and got quoted $395 for 99.9% UV tint with a heat reduction of 61% (obviously there rating system, not what the vehicle will cool down by).

For $495 I can get a heat reduction tint of 81%.

Both with a lifetime warranty.

Any idea if this is on the money?

[Ranga]

I have a roof mounted (Red Dot) that works well and cools much better than standard, even if the evaporator and fan are standard. It just keeps pumping out cold air and haven just carried an elderly gent to Cairns and back on the weekend can atest that the rear was cool, comfortable.

Secondly I have an ARB roof rack and bolted to it is construction ply (been there for about 5 years), this also helps to keep the car cool.

Finally I have 80% green shade cloth as curtains in the rear afixed by velcro dots. This adds to the cooling and is easy to clean, just take it out and hose then replace to dry. Easy.

Will post some pics.

Regards,
PeterW

How much for the unit and installation?

[JLo]

Its the infrared part of the light spectrum that causes the heat not he UV


Cheers

[TwoUp]

The red dot may not be for everyone but for me it is required as I am out of room up front of the motor.

[TwoUp]

The construction ply seems to have more glue in it than wood. It is durable and has been on the car from about 2004.

[TwoUp]

The shade cloth is and easy install and is easy to keep.

[austastar]

Hi TwoUp,
neat unit.
I'm curious as to how it is powered, does it draw all its power from 12V or is the compressor a belt drive from the vehicle motor?
cheers

[Blknight.aus]

Thanks Dave - but I can't quite visualise what you mean. Any chance of photos?

no, its been pulled out for sale....

to start with pull out the vent just to the left of the gearbox (assuming you have the standard underslung aircon unit)

this lets the cold air more or less flow straight up over the center cubby into the back more importantly it lets more air flow unimpeeded which helps prevent the evaporator from icing up.

To promote airflow through the vehicle I grabbed some 75mm diameter flexiduct like they used for venting stove top extractors and ran this from the passangers foot well up along the cubby under the back seat into the cargo area and fitted a 75mm computer fan to blow air into the duct into the foot well this helped draw the cold air backwards and pushed even more warm air into the evaporator.

I did do up a couple of posts on the setup I was messing with im not sure if they're still around.

EDIT

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/33659-fixing-td5-d110-aircon.html

the thread that handles the prototype done with 25mm tubing and a 50mm fan.

the bigger version instead of running through the roof to return the cold air ran more or less along the left sponson in the rear, under the left side seat and then had the piping squished a bit to make it fit between the cubby and the seat, this section was later changed for some rectangular section downpipe.

[TwoUp]

austastar,
It is powered 12v you may not see the cable running up with the two alloy pipes. The job is not yet complete. There is a bit more jigging to be done, like lower the pipes to the roof and complete the run to the rear of the condenser. It works well, I find I am turning the aircon down as I drive.

Regards,
PeterW

[Ranga]

The red dot may not be for everyone but for me it is required as I am out of room up front of the motor.

Crikey - never realised they were so big! I can now imagine how they must work pretty well.

[Ranga]

to start with pull out the vent just to the left of the gearbox (assuming you have the standard underslung aircon unit)

this lets the cold air more or less flow straight up over the center cubby into the back more importantly it lets more air flow unimpeeded which helps prevent the evaporator from icing up.

Do you mean the vent second from the left near the gearstick? What's the easiest way to pull it out without breaking it so I can put it back later?

[Blknight.aus]

as per the linked thread...

put a drink cooler holder in it and have your wife climb over the back and kick it out....

Mine came out quite easily the second time around when i was putting in the spot air cooler for alex all I used that time was a flat bladed screwdriver under the lip.

[Ranga]

Its the infrared part of the light spectrum that causes the heat not he UV


Cheers

Understood, but I thought the UV protection would also help against sunburn on the kids.

[Ranga]

as per the linked thread...

put a drink cooler holder in it and have your wife climb over the back and kick it out....

Mine came out quite easily the second time around when i was putting in the spot air cooler for alex all I used that time was a flat bladed screwdriver under the lip.

I got mine out fairly easy. I'm not sure that much more air came out after I removed them though.

Also, your aircon looks a little different to mine - my vents are in different positions.

I'm still thinking that a bigger/better fan might help matters out, but NFI how to replace it. :eek:

[Snake2093]

I got mine tinted a few months ago and it was the best thing i did. You can notice the difference when the sun is burning through the drivers window when open. Wind up the window and the heat reduction is incredible. Also no more drivers arm sun burn.
Ranga, the price for tinting was that for the safari windows as well. When I got mine tinted it was an extra $50 for them, as it took as long to do the two as it took to do the rest of the car.
The air con on mine is working at the moment, I have found even if you crack open the rear windows the air flow is much better than when they are closed.

[Blknight.aus]

I'm still thinking that a bigger/better fan might help matters out, but NFI how to replace it. :eek:


With great difficulty...

[JLo]

Understood, but I thought the UV protection would also help against sunburn on the kids.

Yes it would/does. Just didn't want you thinking that high UV protection meant less heat.


Cheers
JLo

[JLo]

I had always thought that the aircon in the Def was pretty weak until I was out western NSW during November last year with + 45 deg temps. I was very surprised at how it coped. I have a 6 & 2 year old they didn't whinge.

Humidity may have something to do with the efficiency of it. I think that window tinting is good first up option.

I have also been considering the perforated/holed external adhesive vinyl that is used in advertising on buses etc because I know the kids a going to scratch the internal tinting. Not UV rated but blocks out light. The other thing that has been suggested to me is 3M security film which has different strength tints as it is more robust.

Cheers
JLo

[Reads90]

I actually mentioned tinting the windows to the wife on the way home today. Maybe it's worth a try.

I never thought of insulation. Might give that a try also.

We have a sunroof (yes, on a Defender!), but you can't open it with the roof rack on. The back was fully loaded, so I'm not sure if the cab windows open would make a difference, but again, worth a try.

Barra1 - do you have any photos to give me a better idea of how you did it?


Hi

I have a 98 110 and it has tinted windows and gets very old with the Ac on. Kids and the dogs in the very back are all cold and fine. Even on really hot days have to turn the fan down to 2 as it gets too cold
Here is how mine looks. admittaly pretty heavy tint. But i bought like this


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/597.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/598.jpg



I don't have a sunroof. But i did on a 90 in the Uk and if the sun can shine in it then i would panit it black and stop the sun coming in as that will heat up the car

[Barra1]

A couple of photos of the insulation I have used under the vehicle around the seat boxes and on the floor-pan above the muffler etc.

Selleys Kwik-Grip (Gel) was used and I have had no troubles with the insulation remaining in place.

The back floor and the vertical wall behind the console box etc have been lined and the heat reduction has been quite substantial. I also insulated the under-side of the removable lid under the console box.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/321.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/322.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/323.jpg

[Ranga]

I've booked it in for window tinting on Friday. Hopefully that will help a bit. After that, the next thing I'm going to try is insulation.

I recently removed the hood lining and replaced it with marine carpet. I'm now kicking myself that I didn't use that silver insulation between the ribs, as it also probably would have made the roof a flush flat surface as well as keeping the heat out.

I'm also considering marine ply on the roof rack, so hopefulyl keep some heat off the roof.

Despite all this, I still think it might be hot in the back, as with the windows up there's bugger all airflow getting back there. So solve this, I can only think that Dave's solution of venting some air back there will help.

I'll kepp you posted on success rates ;)

[Blknight.aus]

pull the air from the back to the front... dont try to push it down there, that wont work.... tried that.

[Sith]

I too am going thru this very topic with my 110 .
So far ,

ripping old blue poly wolly crappy tint off next week , premium tint by TKO tint .
Nissan bonnet scoop going on in about 2 weeks to blow so heat away from the fire wall area
went and brought the ply wood , coatd it , painted it white and bolted it up last week
Agro got me the perspex to cover my Milford
Chasing prices on the roof top unit , mine does get cold .. but the fan is knackered i think and it labours way to hard
Chasing the silver insulation for under neath
Chasing the sound deadning high dencity foam for inside

that is about it so far for mine