Punishment for road law breakers????

[easo]

G'day all,

How should some one be punished for violating common road law?
Obviously every situation has different mitigating circumstances but how far should it go?

Voting is multiple choice and anonymous.

Easo

[Sparksdisco]

G'day all,

How should some one be punished for violating common road law?
Obviously every situation has different mitigating circumstances but how far should it go?

Easo

Well if you are drunk/druged and kill someone then should be murder charges.

Dont care if they are priscription drugs or not.

Speeding not to sure on that one.

[Sprint]

before i vote..... if you want to punish people for speeding, whats the fine for travelling well under the posted speed limit without a valid reason?

[hiline]

before i vote..... if you want to punish people for speeding, whats the fine for travelling well under the posted speed limit without a valid reason?

pet hate of mine as well :mad:

doing 60K's in a 80K zone :censored::censored:

[disco2hse]

Easy to say "hang 'em high" until you find yourself in that position.

I reckon, unless the conviction is dire, as the number of convictions rise so should the imposition of severe penalties. I am sick of hearing of turds who have amassed so many fines that they have no ability to pay them off and so the court just wipes them. The turd has not changed their behaviour and in fact they have learned that they can continue to do the same thing and given enough time, the courts will give them a free pass.

The law needs to impose an increasing scale of penalties based on severity of the breach, number of convictions over a period time and whether or not the person has made attempts to modify their behaviour. Other factors, like whether they have dependents, should not be factors.

Statutes normally prescribe stiff penalties but it is the judge who then determines what will be imposed. The maximum almost never gets imposed because it is that, a maximum not a normal penalty.

Judges tend to follow other judges rulings so you then get a trend developing. Sometimes the trend is upwards and other times it is downwards, but you almost never get a judge who will impose severe penalties when others don't.

Oh, added: Would have been better if I could vote for more than one option.

And: Often the victims are forgotten in all this when the focus is on the offender. This leads to squawks about offender rights, blah blah blah, but it is the victims of crime ('accidents', etc.) who need to be awarded damages.

Alan

[Bundalene]

It can be difficult to have one rule for all offences. For instance you may say - 40kms over the limit is a serious offence and I agree for most instances.


However, up the road from our place is a school zone which has a speed limit of 80kms per hour and 40kms during school times - 8am-9.30am amd 2.30-4.00pm, on school days. There have been times when the day just disappears and you don't reailise it is 2.30 already and you can get booked for doing 40kms over the limit, by not realising the time by 5 minutes. There are no flashing signs etc - a 6 lane divided road signs buried amongst trees on the footpath ... and the police are there regularly with their camera cars. Just a good revenue raiser.

Erich

[Tote]

No option for leaving things alone and focussing on enforcing current laws which would have greater benefit......
Death by hanging for 3KM/H over the speed limit would have little effect if it was not enforced.

Regards,
Tote

[disco2hse]

No option for leaving things alone and focussing on enforcing current laws which would have greater benefit......
Death by hanging for 3KM/H over the speed limit would have little effect if it was not enforced.

Regards,
Tote

Which comes back to the judges who administer the laws.

[banjo]

i ticked them all they should do all of them..

[Rosscoe68]

they have these ankle braclets for habitual drunks and people on home detention. why not make these for people that lose there licence etc ?
someone loses there licence they will still drive in a lot of instances.
well if they can track your whereabouts with an ankle tap.....?

[hook]

If hoons get their cars impounded for first time offenders.
The law should include repeat drunk drivers :mad:

[D-Fender]

Depends what law is broken.

If someone kills someone on the road, it's not 'just another car accident'.

If someone speeds and ends up killing anyone other than themselves, I want to see them to time in a cell. And not just a few months time either, serious time.

Same if they are drunk or drugged.

You end someone's life, you should be locked up for the rest of yours.

[willem]

before i vote..... if you want to punish people for speeding, whats the fine for travelling well under the posted speed limit without a valid reason?

It depends on the circumstances. I was once travelling at about 40 - 50 kmh in a 11o kmh zone in WA in a blinding rainstorm when a Valiant went past me at what must have been close to 110 kmh. He could not have had much more than a rough guess at where he was going. So who was dangerous?

Willem

[disco2hse]

It depends on the circumstances. I was once travelling at about 40 - 50 kmh in a 11o kmh zone in WA in a blinding rainstorm when a Valiant went past me at what must have been close to 110 kmh. He could not have had much more than a rough guess at where he was going. So who was dangerous?

Willem

I have seen signs in one or two places that say "100km/hr, it's a limit not a target".

Safe driving obviously means driving to the conditions (traffic, weather,...) and being courteous of others. There really needs to be two limits a top and a bottom and of course in enforcing the bottom there needs to be latitude by officers. Here, on this side of the ditch, officers can ticket someone for driving too slow, especially of they are creating a traffic hazard.

Alan

[willem]

Depends what law is broken.

If someone kills someone on the road, it's not 'just another car accident'.

If someone speeds and ends up killing anyone other than themselves, I want to see them to time in a cell. And not just a few months time either, serious time.

Same if they are drunk or drugged.

You end someone's life, you should be locked up for the rest of yours.

I reckon prison sentences (in most cases) are a mistake ... but finding an effective alternative is not easy!

Why? because prison sentences just put people into a context of lots of criminals and others where they often they learn criminal conduct. So prisons become schools for criminals ... at taxpayers' expense! Its also a cruel form of punishment.

There should be just, and severe if necessary, punishment for wrongdoers. I just reckon prison is a lousy way of doing it, where nobody benefits. Not the victims, not society, not the taxpayers, and not the offenders.

Prisons should only be used for remand centres, and for prisoners who are simply too dangerous to release.

Willem

[Sprint]

It depends on the circumstances. I was once travelling at about 40 - 50 kmh in a 11o kmh zone in WA in a blinding rainstorm when a Valiant went past me at what must have been close to 110 kmh. He could not have had much more than a rough guess at where he was going. So who was dangerous?

Willem

as i said...... without a valid reason.....

[easo]

What do you all recon of this way then...

Inside America's toughest jail:Tent City, Arizona (http://forums.canadiancontent.net/news/61682-inside-americas-toughest-jail-tent.html)

[rovercare]

as i said...... without a valid reason.....

Like the Mongol who I followed back to Ocean Grove tonight, I was car 8 in a 14 car convoy following this spastic at 60km/hr in a 100 zone, 2 erratic overtaking people didn;t seem to give the hint, why don;t these idiots look behind and realise, oh that stream of cars would like to get past me and pull over, some people think its there right that they are travelling "fast enough" in there terms and others should follow suit, assholes:mad:

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I said care for victims as I think that would slow up a decent person.

However IMHO throwing the book at people who exceed arbitrarily set speed limits by a few K is entirely about making money, not road safety.

If you want to save real lives I could come up with a number of options that have been proven to work, but are costly. Brainwashing the public and then booking them on mass is revenue positive and gives people a nice warm feeling that they are doing something.

Speed doesn't kill - inappropriate speed for the conditions can be dangerous though.

[clubagreenie]

Depends what law is broken.

If someone kills someone on the road, it's not 'just another car accident'.



So when I didn't know I had epilepsy, had an accident and ran off the road and hit someone I should have ended up in jail? I didn't kill anyone but went damn near close.

Long version.

Ran off M2 heading west just after the toll plaza where it kinks left then right. Passed out due to seizure) and didn't turn right ran straight into the back of two cyclists. Now 2 years earlier I had another pedestrian run out in front of me and he was hit. He admitted so in courts and I lost license for 12mths. I had family doctor of 35+ years, 3 neurologists and RTA medicine and driving specialists all say that I couldn't have known that it would happen and I didn't have a history.

1 year and $50-K in lawyers later I am still guilty of dangerous driving occasioning grievous bodily harm, which while I couldn't have known it would happen I did hit them and do considerable damage. Fortunately it was in a "between rover" phase or they'd defiantly be 6' under. What I really objected to was them trying to get me for 16 counts of "obtain benefit by deception (legal speak for fraud) because I didn't tick the box on my previous license applications stating I had a history of blackouts, seizures and fits.One count per application I had put in over the years. The judge decided that was too much and brought it down to one.

So end result, 2 year good behavior bond, 2 years (200 hours in the end) community service and 3 years no license. AND to boot I could no longer qualify to keep my job as a commercial diver as I couldn't pass the medical required to do the course, let alone the annual medical required to keep the certification. So there went my quite considerable income and only real qualification.


Sp please consider that while there are those who do do the wrong thing. The law exists to lay blame on someone. There isn't a provision for something being an "accident"

[Rosscoe68]

bring back public floggings and stonings i say

[disco2hse]

So when I didn't know I had epilepsy, had an accident and ran off the road and hit someone I should have ended up in jail? I didn't kill anyone but went damn near close.

Long version.

Ran off M2 heading west just after the toll plaza where it kinks left then right. Passed out due to seizure) and didn't turn right ran straight into the back of two cyclists. Now 2 years earlier I had another pedestrian run out in front of me and he was hit. He admitted so in courts and I lost license for 12mths. I had family doctor of 35+ years, 3 neurologists and RTA medicine and driving specialists all say that I couldn't have known that it would happen and I didn't have a history.

1 year and $50-K in lawyers later I am still guilty of dangerous driving occasioning grievous bodily harm, which while I couldn't have known it would happen I did hit them and do considerable damage. Fortunately it was in a "between rover" phase or they'd defiantly be 6' under. What I really objected to was them trying to get me for 16 counts of "obtain benefit by deception (legal speak for fraud) because I didn't tick the box on my previous license applications stating I had a history of blackouts, seizures and fits.One count per application I had put in over the years. The judge decided that was too much and brought it down to one.

So end result, 2 year good behavior bond, 2 years (200 hours in the end) community service and 3 years no license. AND to boot I could no longer qualify to keep my job as a commercial diver as I couldn't pass the medical required to do the course, let alone the annual medical required to keep the certification. So there went my quite considerable income and only real qualification.


Sp please consider that while there are those who do do the wrong thing. The law exists to lay blame on someone. There isn't a provision for something being an "accident"

Wow, that really sucks. I am so sorry to hear that. Perhaps some folks around here can help you get your life back in order.

I do not want to make comment on a public forum about what I thought about the case and the effectiveness of your legal representation. This is too sensitive I think.

But I would add that this is why judges, when passing down sentences, have gradations that they work to. There are those instances where the perpetrator is in a position where they could not help what they were doing and it is up to the legal counsel to argue their client's case effectively. Having spoken to one or two judges they get frustrated when lawyers do not adequately defend their cases.

Alan

[Bushie]

No option for leaving things alone and focussing on enforcing current laws which would have greater benefit......
Death by hanging for 3KM/H over the speed limit would have little effect if it was not enforced.

Regards,
Tote

X2

The laws are already there they just need to be enforced by the judiciary.


Martyn

[clubagreenie]

Yeah, sux to be me but that was 5 years ago now and it was easy to keep to a good behaviour bond when you can't drive or really get out anywhere.

As for life back in order, I'm back in a Landie so it's a start. Just need to get over the liner issue it had on Sunday. Good home available for 4 or 4.6l v8.

[Hymie]

I'm for crushing the cars of people who drive with foglights on when it anit foggy:twisted:

[slug_burner]

I'm for crushing the cars of people who drive with foglights on when it anit foggy:twisted:

Yes those high intensity red fog lights on cheap Korean cars. I'd be for exterminating the drivers, the word would soon get around.

I note that extermination was not a choice on this poll. We are just getting too soft.:nazilock:

[disco2hse]

Yeah, sux to be me but that was 5 years ago now and it was easy to keep to a good behaviour bond when you can't drive or really get out anywhere.

As for life back in order, I'm back in a Landie so it's a start. Just need to get over the liner issue it had on Sunday. Good home available for 4 or 4.6l v8.

Glad to hear it. Takes time.

[disco2hse]

Yes those high intensity red fog lights on cheap Korean cars. I'd be for exterminating the drivers, the word would soon get around.

You assume there's some smarts there. There ain't, that's why the fog lights are on.

[easo]

I note that extermination was not a choice on this poll. We are just getting too soft.:nazilock:

Tick Army targets, they give them a chance too by letting them run zig-zags, serpentine serpentine.

[clubagreenie]

Problem with the lights is they are sometimes classes as "daytime running lights" so they come on with ignition. They the rice boys decide they are underpowered as they won't light up the road in daylight so stick 130w globes in then wonder why their alternator won't keep up.

[THE BOOGER]

Day time runing lights havent heard that one, in NSW you are allowed 4 white forward facing lights at low beam thats parkers and low beam head lights anything else is illegal use em for target practice:twisted:

[BigJon]

DRLs came into being thanks to Volvo. If you look at an older Volvo (think 244/5) you will see that it appears to have the parking lights on all the time that it is driving. In fact they have a dual wattage globe in the front park light, giving (from memory) 21 watts in the DRL position and 5 watts when set to park / headlights.

Audi are now using LED DRLs in their current range and HSV have started doing so as well.

I don't think the lights mounted below the bumper line (with a 55 watt globe and a highly polished reflector) could ever be called DRLs. They are fog lights or driving lights.
Fog lights are to be used in conjunction with park lights (not low beam) and only in times of poor visibility (heavy rain, fog, smoke, etc).
Driving lights are to come on with high beam only.

[crl]

The best way to get through to hoons seems to be to take away their car. Heavier fines are also good. Suspending licences means nothing to alot of people who will continue to drive without one.

[Landy Smurf]

G'day all,

How should some one be punished for violating common road law?
Obviously every situation has different mitigating circumstances but how far should it go?

Voting is multiple choice and anonymous.

Easo
i voted for weekend detention because that is generally when these dickheads are out on the road.
anyway this is what i think,
crush there car=waste of money not for them but society
impound car=not a bad idea but i still dont think that will stop them
heavy fines=i think and know alot of the people that do it and have gotten these heavy fines it hasnt stopped them because most of them come from rich families(just from what i have noticed)
speed limit mods=i honestly dont think they will stick to these
the others i think community service is a good idea but just not what was sugested with them depending who was with them though i suppose

lengthy prison sentences=this wont help them get there life on track and they wil probably continue to be a dh

[Ace]

6 months ago i would have typed a different reply, but now i have had 4 months on the other side of the fence enforcing these laws.

Granted some people may lower the foot and the speed might creep up and they arent aware. Having said that if they arent concentrating on their speed what else arent they concentrating on. On the other side of the coin driving through the blue mountains from lithgow to Penrith on the Great Western Highway is a horrible place to keep up with what the speed limit is. It changes so often its not funny. Most often you just end up going with the flow and travelling at what ever speed those around you are travelling at.

Also, i dont know how it works in other states but in NSW when someone has a large amount of unpaid fines because of frequent traffic offences the courts dont wipe the bill when they have been unable to pay it for a set time, they cancel their licence and they dont get it back until the fines are paid in full. If they continue to drive whilst their licence is cancelled they get a gaol term.

Drink driving is one of those things that IMHO needs far more harsh penalties. We picked a guy up the other night who blew 0.205 on the side of the road. He had never held a licence yet is marked on our system as a habitual offender, and had already served 6 months in prison for similar offences. What is the point of cancelling someones licence or disqualifying them from driving if they are going to do it anyway. The only way to stop them driving in this case is to lock them up and it should be done.

[feral]

DRLs came into being thanks to Volvo. If you look at an older Volvo (think 244/5) you will see that it appears to have the parking lights on all the time that it is driving. In fact they have a dual wattage globe in the front park light, giving (from memory) 21 watts in the DRL position and 5 watts when set to park / headlights.

Audi are now using LED DRLs in their current range and HSV have started doing so as well.


Add to this list that some DRL's use the high beam circuit/bulb that run at about 60% strength. This is achieved by using a relay/resistor in the circuit.

Also D2's have DRL's and these can be set to use via a Nanocom. They use the low beam circuit and run headlights only at full strength.

I wait for the day when the boys pull me up to inform that the tail & number plate lights are not working even though the headlights are on. :coplight:

But thats never going to happen...they don't do that anymore :cool:

[Reads90]

mmm i think they should crush the car, that the driver was driving at the time even if it is not his. Who ever it belongs to it will get crush and the kid/ driver will have to explain to their parnets, company or Hire company or who ever the car belong to, why their car has been crushed.

Would make them think twice when they owe $30 grand for a car that they got crushed and their company or parents want/ need that money back

[Hymie]

I had a discussion with one particular tosspot who loved driving with their foglights on.
"Ther're DRL's, not Foglights" he said.
Grabbed his owners manual from the glovebox and looked up the relevant page and there it was, FOGLIGHTS.

[Sprint]

Would make them think twice when they owe $30 grand for a car that they got crushed and their company or parents want/ need that money back
what makes you think people wont try to run from the cops the moment they face being in debt for a car some bleating heart got crushed?

[THE BOOGER]

We all look to the govt to give us the answers but they will never keep everyone happy, just have to do what keeps most people in line.There will always be nuts no matter what the law is you cant legislate against stupidity or inexperience:(

[BBC]

mmm i think they should crush the car, that the driver was driving at the time even if it is not his. Who ever it belongs to it will get crush and the kid/ driver will have to explain to their parnets, company or Hire company or who ever the car belong to, why their car has been crushed.

Would make them think twice when they owe $30 grand for a car that they got crushed and their company or parents want/ need that money back

and.....if the car was stolen?

[MacMan]

My thoughts in the other thread.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/96693-isnt-time-get-serious-start-cruching-cars-13.html#post1163548

[Hymie]

How about the Police start basic laws like indicating when changing lanes,
keeping left unless overtaking, just a full on blitz on BASIC RULES.
The more complicated ones should fall into place then.

[rovercare]

Well, seeing as I have the unlucky duty of driving the highway from the latrobe valley to the end of the Geelong ring road and beyond, twice a week for work, I've seen numerous cars off the road/crashed, 1 middle age mother of 2, in a Jackaroo, 1 commodore, combined with the remnants off?, 1 mid 80's bongo van into a fence.........heaps more minor accidents, and not one hoon insight, nothing like media propaganda is their:mad:

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

Well, seeing as I have the unlucky duty of driving the highway from the latrobe valley to the end of the Geelong ring road and beyond, twice a week for work, I've seen numerous cars off the road/crashed, 1 middle age mother of 2, in a Jackaroo, 1 commodore, combined with the remnants off?, 1 mid 80's bongo van into a fence.........heaps more minor accidents, and not one hoon insight, nothing like media propaganda is their:mad:

You need to do your trip into Dandenong City, via Frankston, Endeavour hills, Ferntree Gully,Carrum Downs, Mill Park, St.kilda, Hampton Park. Streets and not on the main roads. Then have a look at all the Black tyre marks that zig zag and are in circles, these of course were made by responsible drivers, maybe their vehicles just wander a bit at speed because of a bad wheel alignment? A lot of Hoons come out at night, or the wee hours of the morning, it depends on the area. You usually don't see hoons doing burnouts on the middle of the Princes Hwy or in peak hour traffic on the Monash freeway.
But it's easy to turn a blind eye and think all is ok in noddy land.

[Sprint]

You need to do your trip into Dandenong City, via Frankston, Endeavour hills, Ferntree Gully,Carrum Downs, Mill Park, St.kilda, Hampton Park. Streets and not on the main roads. Then have a look at all the Black tyre marks that zig zag and are in circles, these of course were made by responsible drivers, maybe their vehicles just wander a bit at speed because of a bad wheel alignment? A lot of Hoons come out at night, or the wee hours of the morning, it depends on the area. You usually don't see hoons doing burnouts on the middle of the Princes Hwy or in peak hour traffic on the Monash freeway.
But it's easy to turn a blind eye and think all is ok in noddy land.

let me get this straight......

your problem isnt the crashes.... but people doing burnouts?

tell me..... how many burnouts lead directly to crashes or fatalities?

[MacMan]

let me get this straight......

your problem isnt the crashes.... but people doing burnouts?

tell me..... how many burnouts lead directly to crashes or fatalities?

More than just a couple around here. There was a great one only 200m from home about 14 months ago. Commodore full of knob jockeys thought it would be funny to drift around the last turn before home. Took out a tree, car ended up in someone's front garden only metres from the house, driver spent a good stay in hospital. He was less than 50 metres from his own place. The idiots had burn out marks right outside their house.

[CraigE]

I can see Sprints point here very clearly. People are going on about hoons being the problem and causing crashes, which is infact false. Most accidents involve normal people, often under influence of alcohol or drugs, but probablly just as many not. Do we crush all their cars?
Hoons can be a problem with their antics, noise and danger they create doing burnouts and drag racing. I dont believe burnouts are the big problem in this group, but the main contributors are alcohol/drugs and speed.
Absolutelly granted hoons doing burnouts in towns and built up areas is a concern, but I think the media coverage has blown that all out of proportion. Yes ofcourse we attend MVAs that involve hoons, but many times more that involve alcoholics or just normal people that have made an error of judgement. Are they as responsible as a hoon???
A lot depends on the individula circumstance and this clown last week had scant regard for the law or life. Now is that the same e same as a sober person doing a burnout or someone doing 140kmph without any other issues?? Very hard to answer. It seems there is a section of the community out there that are just anti-performance or nice looking car. Most often is is hypocritical highly modified 4x4 owners, 4X4 owners that use them as Torrak Tractors or people with high end cars that think because they own a BMW or Mercedes they are different. That is BS.

[Reads90]

How about the Police start basic laws like indicating when changing lanes,
keeping left unless overtaking, just a full on blitz on BASIC RULES.
The more complicated ones should fall into place then.


agree

I drive all day for a living and the lack of road rules on the road and the sate of driving is shocking to say the least. People cut other people up and don't even get me started on round abouts. And then you get idiots , normally in old falcons and comadores driving far too fast and like idiots in cars that look like sheds and i would want to drive around the corner never mind doing crazy fast driving moves. (But maybe thats more QLD becasue we don't have yearly roadworths)

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

let me get this straight......

your problem isnt the crashes.... but people doing burnouts?

tell me..... how many burnouts lead directly to crashes or fatalities?
So you don't see reckless behaviour as a bad thing, that leads to potential crashes.
God help all decent law abiding road users. People some poeple think it ok.
Why don't they do do nut and burnouts whilst they are doing their driving tests? Are they too gutless to do it then?
May be some of the pro hoon lobby should spend some time in the trauma units, or attend accident scenes. Or ask the police accident investigation officers and ask them if the accident was not caused by contributing factors.
By why should we believe these people, they only sensationalise the trauma, it's really not a problem and no one get hurt from stupidity.
I can see why there are people out there that defend these hoons, do they have skeletons in the closet indicating that they did this sort of behaviour themselves. So that makes it alright for others.
I can't believe there are people out there that condone this behaviour as exceptable.
That's sad and a shame.

[Hoges]

they have these ankle braclets for habitual drunks and people on home detention

yep sure do...my brother was telling me of a case in the US (where he lives) where the bloke was at the end of his sentence but for some reason could not turn up at the agency to hand back the bracelet... so he sent his brother to have it removed... artificial leg ...:rulez::Rolling:

[THE BOOGER]

There are enough people around who will defend hoons to a certain degree:confused: thats why in the end very little will get done they come up with all sorts of reasons why you cant make life hard for them but not put up any real answers. remember most of the ideas floated are as a PUNISHMENT and as such are ment to make life harder for them so what if the car registered in mums name is crushed and she gets upset at little johny she should, if he/she them goes out and steals someones car to hoon in then send em to gaol. I didnt have the best driving record as a young bloke but the fines changed my attitude as they get caught put the punishment up a notch at a time. Fact is young drivers are involved in far more accidents than they should be in some from inexperience some through hooning we cant do much about inexpirence but we can about hoons:nazilock:

[CraigE]

So you don't see reckless behaviour as a bad thing, that leads to potential crashes.
God help all decent law abiding road users. People some poeple think it ok.
Why don't they do do nut and burnouts whilst they are doing their driving tests? Are they too gutless to do it then?
May be some of the pro hoon lobby should spend some time in the trauma units, or attend accident scenes. Or ask the police accident investigation officers and ask them if the accident was not caused by contributing factors.
By why should we believe these people, they only sensationalise the trauma, it's really not a problem and no one get hurt from stupidity.
I can see why there are people out there that defend these hoons, do they have skeletons in the closet indicating that they did this sort of behaviour themselves. So that makes it alright for others.
I can't believe there are people out there that condone this behaviour as exceptable.
That's sad and a shame.
That is just stupid. Why then on that reasoning would you not speed, talk on your mobile, park illegally etc etc while doing your driving test. Oh thats right because you will fail. Yet most of us have done something that would fail us on a driving test, so are we all hoons.
I attend MVA's regularly and or see the result of most through the nature of my employment and I can tell you most are not through hoon activities. But I suppose that depends what you put under the big umbrella of hoon activities. My thought are if it is dangerous driving and real dangerous driving not just doing a low speed burnout, chirping the tyres etc (these should still have their own ramifications) then it could be regarded as hooning, but things like speeding on their own are generally not hoon activities. Yes still punishable by law but not hooning. If you include any one activity as hooning then maybe you are right.
What cars then do classify as a hoons car? You regularly see FPV and HSV cars described as hoons cars but in fact most hooning actually occurs in japanese **** boxes. Get real and stop labelling people by the car they drive. I own a modified 4x4, Statesman V8 and SS Torana and have owned performance bikes and am most cetainly not a hoon. Under your reasoning that makes every 4x4 owner a hoon.
As I have continually said and the road stats back up, most so called hoon incidents and crashes involve alcohol, not just the car or speed so therefore are they classified as hoon or drink driving. Drink drivers are generally far more dangerous and range from young drivers right through to the elderly.
Most learn after being fined a few times, I know I did. Not condoning such activities but the best way is not to do such things in built up or high traffic areas. I myself have chatted and reported idiots doing high speed burnouts in town.
It is a big kettle of fish and there are no easy answers. The biggest problem is there is no real definition of a hoon or hoon activities and age and car is irrelevant. I have more issues with stupid 4x4 owners belting along the beach at 80-100kmph past families playing or swimming. This is far more dangerous and should be regarded as hooning.
Oh and by just getting in your car it can lead to a potential crash. Same as any other illegal activity or traffic breach, inattention or fatigue, is this hooning? Because they can all lead to the same result and often do moreso than hooning.

[cinders]

I'm sick and tired of hearing about people who were done under the hoon laws when in reality they were speeding. To me hooning is dragging, burnouts, doughnuts and being reckless in an inappropriate spot (built up areas, back streets) Doing 150 up the hume or calder is speeding not hooning!
when I was a young fella the best thing the cops ever told us was to go and do our 'hooning' in the factory estates but these days there are after noon and night shift so I spose they're buggered unless they get a Defender and they won't feel the need to hoon, just putt along at a sedate pace:D

[THE BOOGER]

Defers are turboed doesnt that make them a hoons car:wasntme:

[slug_burner]

mmm i think they should crush the car, that the driver was driving at the time even if it is not his. Who ever it belongs to it will get crush and the kid/ driver will have to explain to their parnets, company or Hire company or who ever the car belong to, why their car has been crushed.

Would make them think twice when they owe $30 grand for a car that they got crushed and their company or parents want/ need that money back

Would this apply to a stolen car, like lets say your 90. Or when the parents say that it was taken without permission? It would be a difficult position for a parent to either have the car crushed or have their child charged for car theft!!

[rovercare]

You need to do your trip into Dandenong City, via Frankston, Endeavour hills, Ferntree Gully,Carrum Downs, Mill Park, St.kilda, Hampton Park. Streets and not on the main roads. Then have a look at all the Black tyre marks that zig zag and are in circles, these of course were made by responsible drivers, maybe their vehicles just wander a bit at speed because of a bad wheel alignment? A lot of Hoons come out at night, or the wee hours of the morning, it depends on the area. You usually don't see hoons doing burnouts on the middle of the Princes Hwy or in peak hour traffic on the Monash freeway.
But it's easy to turn a blind eye and think all is ok in noddy land.

Thanks for the offer, I'll decline, you can stick your subourbs, horrible place:D

How do I turn a blind eye? I am a hoon, I love burnouts, wheelies, fast cars, I just tell you what I see and share my experiences from the "other side":twisted:

Your right they come out at night, places where they can;t be seen, that's the idea, when noone else is around, I mean, Derr:)

[frantic]

So if you want to crush "hoons" cars for speeding wont the next call be to crush 4wd's that actually do as we go down tracks that are not official firetrails/ roads and we put mud and drag out debri onto the road running from forest fire trails onto tar roads into towns.
Yes book people for dangerous driving in built up high car/ pedestrian traffic areas but FFS stop the tax agent with a badge and a gun scenario when you are doing 10-20k's over on a wide straight multi lane freeway with clear vision and little traffic( caught 3 times over 5 years mid-week between 11pm and 2 am driving home "quickly" from work in the city 1990-95) or the latest one being given a ticket for doing a u turn at midnight on a deserted 4 lane road at the lights(clear vision for 1 k of oncoming) after picking up dinner from maccas after a call out. It took the pol...OOPS state tax officer 2 ks to catch up as he was that far away and during his license check we saw all of 1 car go past, but he did nothing about the (young)teens with 2 slabs siting down the road!:angrylock:

[ScottW]

The main problem is that a lot of the time it comes down to police descretion. They make blanket laws that mean they can find a reason to book anyone anywhere if the police officer deems it fit. All fair and good until you get a power tripper who just wants to write a ticket. The laws are there to keep people safe. But it's pretty easy to find cases where the cops are just trying to make a quota.

The cops don't play by the rules. People lose respect for all police because of this. Police then complain that no-one likes them. They spend a fair bit of time talking to highschoolers, trying to develop a good relationship, but all it takes is one power tripper to destroy all that work. I had a good opinion of the cops for the first 28 years of my life, until I met a bad one (I don't get pulled over much) After the actions of the officer, and the way my complaint against the officer was dealt with, I couldn't care less about them, they are thick as theives.

So, how can you let someone like that have greater powers, when half of them can't be trusted with what they already have? I feel sorry for the few good cops out there, but most of the good ones I know have already gotten out.

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

It's pointless debating this issue as there are some that can't see the forest because of all the trees. And will find justifcation for irresponsible behaviour on the roads. Be it Drink driving, Speeding or Hooning. They just like to defy the laws of a democratic civilized society.
God help us.

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

That is just stupid. Why then on that reasoning would you not speed, talk on your mobile, park illegally etc etc while doing your driving test. Oh thats right because you will fail.
Exactly BECAUSE YOU WILL FAIL, so the point is if your capable of being a good driver for the test, why become the Dr. Jeckle on the road once you pass. That's not the condition they gave you a licence for in the first place.

[Sprint]

More than just a couple around here. There was a great one only 200m from home about 14 months ago. Commodore full of knob jockeys thought it would be funny to drift around the last turn before home. Took out a tree, car ended up in someone's front garden only metres from the house, driver spent a good stay in hospital. He was less than 50 metres from his own place. The idiots had burn out marks right outside their house.
bit of a difference between drifting and burnouts.....

It's pointless debating this issue as there are some that can't see the forest because of all the trees. And will find justifcation for irresponsible behaviour on the roads. Be it Drink driving, Speeding or Hooning. They just like to defy the laws of a democratic civilized society.
God help us.

tell me

have you ever driven a vehicle in excess of the speed limit?
with a blown bulb?
with an empty washer bottle?
an oil leak?
tyres worn to or past the tread wear indicator bars?
a windscreen that is either cracked or has stone chips within the area swept by the wiper blades?
worn suspension bushes?

[MacMan]

bit of a difference between drifting and burnouts.....

Sorry, I have completely missed your point. Can you tell me which is the better of the two to do in a built up area?

Both say to me, "don't worry bloke, I know you live right here and stuff but it's cool, I know what I am doing, trust me I am a P plater".

[CraigE]

Exactly BECAUSE YOU WILL FAIL, so the point is if your capable of being a good driver for the test, why become the Dr. Jeckle on the road once you pass. That's not the condition they gave you a licence for in the first place.
Well as Sprint says. At school did you write what you wanted on a test or what you were taught by the teacher? Same relevance. Are you perfect. I suppose in your eyes you may think you are, but just by driving a 4x4 you put yourself into this category anyway. Obviously you have never sped, spun your wheels on tar or dirt intentionally or unintentionally, looked at or picked up a mobile phone, used a cb, changed a radio channel or cd, done any hard off road work, circle work in the dirt or riden a motorcycle, never driven tired, missed a stop sign, not given way etc etc?
If you havent, well thats great for you and I am glad you are happy in your cotton wool coccoon.
Everyone becomes the so called Mr Hyde (Dr Jecckle was actually the good side so you should get your anecdotes correct). It is just a matter as to with what and what you think is acceptable may still be illegal and wrong in others eyes.
As I have previously said I am not condoning dangerous driving at all, but to tar everyone that does anything you disagree with is just wrong also. I am sure you have ethics and have done things I disagree with, but I wouldnt flame you too much for it.

[CraigE]

Sorry, I have completely missed your point. Can you tell me which is the better of the two to do in a built up area?

Both say to me, "don't worry bloke, I know you live right here and stuff but it's cool, I know what I am doing, trust me I am a P plater".
Hey, I agree with you on the built up and high traffic area bit, it is not acceptable. What we need to do is look at an amicable solution. My thought are give people places to do this (I know impossible due to indemnity and insurance), then they will not have any excuse for doing it on a public road. Pie in the sky stuff. People will start mouthing off there are drag facilities for this sort of thing and burnout comps a speedway, but these are limited and generally very hard for the average young person to access. There are very strict rules and regulations regarding this and the average vehicle would not comply or be allowed to run. It is also very cost prohibitive.
We attempted to get something organised in the mid/late 80's in Kalgoorlie and had full support of the police and emergency services, a nice unused piece of road, but the council and government vetoed it as they believed we were bad elements (now look what I do for a job). It was also mooted for the old airport in the 90s, but it was much more important to rip up what would have been a fantastic drag strip (was actually used for 2 sanctioned events) to sell the land as building blocks.
There are a couple of towns that actually hold events once a year (Newman and Bunbury I think) at least giving something.
The answer is not simple and crushing cars and increasing fines will not do it. What will happen is plates will be removed or falsified and people will try to outrun police rather than have their car confiscated and this will create more problems.
As I have said if we give a real solution where people can go and do this sort of thing there will be no excuse for doing it on the street. Could be as simple as a big barriered burnout pad, but will not happen.

[Sprint]

Sorry, I have completely missed your point. Can you tell me which is the better of the two to do in a built up area?

Both say to me, "don't worry bloke, I know you live right here and stuff but it's cool, I know what I am doing, trust me I am a P plater".

not condoning either activity when its done on the street, but i fail to see how burnouts can be as dangerous as drifting.... one involves speed, the other doesnt....

[frantic]

Yes obviously speed kills, thats why the road toll in the N.T has INCREASED since speed limits where introduced , and dont worry that of the fatal accidents which where investigated a majority had either (or a combination of) a D.U.I, unregisterered vehicle , underage driver, unlicensed driver or speeding in a SUBURBAN area. The state tax officer sitting by the freeway with a radar gun who posts the fines in the mail is doing nothing to help the safety of the community.
One person I worked with was a middle distance running chump, he lost his license and for several years drove several unregistered $200 heaps, any time the cops chased him he would turn towards a local park in the city and do a runner, cops couldn't catch him and it was cheaper for him to buy another unregoed wreck than to pay the fine/ do time. This is what will happen if you jack up the penalties to high. It is becoming a severe issue in Sydney with No. plates being stolen/ altered to avoid the tunnel/ road fees/tolls, imagine the scale if it was a $25k car instead of a $5-10 tunnel toll

[THE BOOGER]

so if if the govt cant put up the fines ,crush the cars or put em in gaol what can they do? talk sternly to them? Im not talking about guys out in the boondocks what about the ones like the guy last week. If the first thing that comes into the mind of one of these guys is to run from the police maybe they need some time in gaol they are crossing a real big line there puting a lot of lives at risk if they steal a car becuase theirs was crushed then they are thieves and deserve time. I dont think anybody is looking at this for 1st timers but at some stage it goes beyond anything that society should have to expect and i for one want the govt to do something remember 8% of drivers are under 25 but they are 25% of fatalities and serious injuries.No i am not perfect but 2 year suspenion and fines changed the way i drive but some people are thicker than even me and need more engouragment:confused:

[Tote]

so if if the govt cant put up the fines ,crush the cars or put em in gaol what can they do? talk sternly to them? Im not talking about guys out in the boondocks what about the ones like the guy last week. If the first thing that comes into the mind of one of these guys is to run from the police maybe they need some time in gaol they are crossing a real big line there puting a lot of lives at risk if they steal a car becuase theirs was crushed then they are thieves and deserve time. I dont think anybody is looking at this for 1st timers but at some stage it goes beyond anything that society should have to expect and i for one want the govt to do something remember 8% of drivers are under 25 but they are 25% of fatalities and serious injuries.No i am not perfect but 2 year suspenion and fines changed the way i drive but some people are thicker than even me and need more engouragment:confused:

Since you have mentioned last week's incedent maybe we can put in context a few of the things above:
He was allegedly doing more than 140 KM/H (loss of licence and large fine)
He was 3 times the legal BAC for a Fully licenced driver (loss of licence and large fine)
He was carrying unrestrained passengers ( 4 demerit points per person to the driver )
He was driving an unregistered vehicle (large fine)

These penalties would be sizable to any teenager, obviously he did not consider the risk prior to the actions he took. Would the possibility of having his car crushed deter him from this course of action? If the police had caught him 5 minutes prior to impact he would have been looking at gaol time, do you think this was a deterrent?
I think the govt needs to get tough on hoons by enforcing existing laws by putting police on the road and not relying on automatic speed detection devices.
If that young bloke had thought that he had a pretty good chance of actually being caught he might have reconsidered driving.

Regards,
Tote

[THE BOOGER]

No doubt more marked cars will/would have an impact but what will deter them we have a large no of people just on this forum who say no to bigger fines crushing cars or gaol time all of which can be used now if the courts would ues the maximum penalties they could:( I think in most cases the existing laws should be used to the fullest extent if needed that includes some of the options some people find hard to exept remember it punishment as well as a deterent but if not used its neither

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

If it makes all the Pro Hoons happy I was woken up just after midnight, after a car did a u turn in my drive way and then REDLINED the engine and did a burnout for a lenght of time at the end of my street.
They where later found to be hoon gate crashers that racked up to a neighbours house because there teenage kids had a couple of souped up cars and were visting the parents. :p The poeple concerned asked them to leave, but were forced to call in the police. The hoons decamped before the cops arrived of course.:mad:

[Tote]

If it makes all the Pro Hoons happy I was woken up just after midnight, after a car did a u turn in my drive way and then REDLINED the engine and did a burnout for a lenght of time at the end of my street.
They where later found to be hoon gate crashers that racked up to a neighbours house because there teenage kids had a couple of souped up cars and were visting the parents. :p The poeple concerned asked them to leave, but were forced to call in the police. The hoons decamped before the cops arrived of course.:mad:

But isnt that a failing of inadequate policing, not legislation. Would crushing these blokes cars make any difference if the cops can't catch them anyway?

Most responses I've seen are not in support of irrresponsible behavior, they are just pointing out that raising penalties does not necessarily fix the problem.

Regards,
Tote

[CraigE]

If it makes all the Pro Hoons happy I was woken up just after midnight, after a car did a u turn in my drive way and then REDLINED the engine and did a burnout for a lenght of time at the end of my street.
They where later found to be hoon gate crashers that racked up to a neighbours house because there teenage kids had a couple of souped up cars and were visting the parents. :p The poeple concerned asked them to leave, but were forced to call in the police. The hoons decamped before the cops arrived of course.:mad:
Of course it does not make me happy. These guys should be fined as appropriate and had they been caught or you had given a statement with the car rego they would likely have their car impounded. The main issue I make is increasing fines and crushing cars will not stop this type of activity and a one size fits all attitude will not work and many low level offenders will get caught in the crossfire.
I can actually remember when it was introduced the Commissioner of WA Police stating these laws would not be abused and only the most serious of offences would be dealt with under anti hoon legislation. Well we have all seen where that went.
No anti hoon legislation would have stopped the clown in the XR6 and yes if caught he should have been jailed, but there were many more factors than just so called hooning. Alcohol was involved as it is in most cases and we should be addressing this first. While I dont condone speeding or doing burnouts in a public place combined with alcohol or drugs it is much more likely to result in MVA. Lets take the first step and address the alcohol and drug drivers on our roads. Oh thats right, we wont because it is too hard and hoon legislation is relativelly easy because often there does not have to be any evidence. Allows the Police or members of the public to be judge, jury and executioner. Even a drunk driver gets to defend and be proven guilty.
Oh and there is a saying about people who live in glass houses. None of us are perfect and I would say all have done something they have regretted.

[Sparksdisco]

Would this apply to a stolen car, like lets say your 90. Or when the parents say that it was taken without permission? It would be a difficult position for a parent to either have the car crushed or have their child charged for car theft!!

Why would that be a difficult question.
when my kids grow up and do somthing stupid like take my car and hoon in it then they will have to deal with the concerquences. so yes they would be charged with theft and be delt with according to the law.

[Sprint]

No doubt more marked cars will/would have an impact but what will deter them we have a large no of people just on this forum who say no to bigger fines crushing cars or gaol time all of which can be used now if the courts would ues the maximum penalties they could:( I think in most cases the existing laws should be used to the fullest extent if needed that includes some of the options some people find hard to exept remember it punishment as well as a deterent but if not used its neither

increasing the penalties wont achieve anything

increasing the possibility of getting caught..... well..... if you dont go fishing, you wont catch any fish, will you?

[disco2hse]

If that young bloke had thought that he had a pretty good chance of actually being caught he might have reconsidered driving.

Doubt it. Just increases the risk of being caught and therefore the thrill when they aren't.

The threat of punishment is no deterrent (the murder rate in US states where there is capital punishment is no lower than in those where there is none), but having been punished there is hopefully a reluctance to being punished again. This is the only thing that might result in behaviour modification.

Alan

[bblaze]

Maybe we need a rite of passage to adulthood/licence, so maybe when you apply for your licence you recieve on stroke of the singapore bamboo cane, then layed out clearly on the licence is how many strokes each offence is worth, speeding 10 km over - 2 stroke, drink driving - 15 strokes etc. Wouldnt that take the fun and hormones out of the youngins. Problem Half fixed I feel
cheers
blaze

[disco2hse]

Maybe we need a rite of passage to adulthood/licence, so maybe when you apply for your licence you recieve on stroke of the singapore bamboo cane, then layed out clearly on the licence is how many strokes each offence is worth, speeding 10 km over - 2 stroke, drink driving - 15 strokes etc. Wouldnt that take the fun and hormones out of the youngins. Problem Half fixed I feel
cheers
blaze

Nah. It'll be a mark of honour. "Gee you've had how many strokes?"

http://www.thepunch.com.au/images/uploads/westie.jpg

[BMKal]

The threat of punishment is no deterrent (the murder rate in US states where there is capital punishment is no lower than in those where there is none), but having been punished there is hopefully a reluctance to being punished again. This is the only thing that might result in behaviour modification.

Alan

Well, at least in those states in the US that you refer to which DO have capital punishment - I'd guess that, having been punished, there is hopefully a reluctance to being punished again. :p

[THE BOOGER]

Absolutly no repeat offenders:D would solve things like rape etc.

[disco2hse]

Well, at least in those states in the US that you refer to which DO have capital punishment - I'd guess that, having been punished, there is hopefully a reluctance to being punished again. :p

yeah yeah yeah, you know what I mean :D :p :D

[Ace]

It is possible to write a vehicles number plate down and then go to the police station and make a statement in relation to the a drivers activity.

Now having said that people would be at the police station all the time if they reported every piece of stupid driving but if someone is doing full on line locker burnouts in your street of drifting along streets in built up areas in your street, write the plate down and go to the police station. Take 30mins of your time and make a statement. You will of course need to be prepared to give evidence in court.

If the burnout marks are where you said they are, police can go there and photograph them and that all goes into a brief of evidence to have the driver changed.

There are 15000 police in NSW, or there abouts, some of those are detectives, forensic scientists etc, only a portion of them are General duties police or Highway patrol and compared to the number of people in the state thats not many. As a result of this ratio they cant see everything so we do rely on the general public to help out.

The biggest problem here is that people love to whinge about it and complain but very few people want to actually get off their back side and do something about it.

matt

[disco2hse]

Do have *555? For reporting drivers?

[Sprint]

Do have *555? For reporting drivers?

wtf?

[disco2hse]

wtf?

Been around here since the 80's. You can report dangerous drivers and in many cases people even follow them (without getting too close that is) to help Mr Plod home in. They can't be everywhere and poor drivers really p*** people off, so this gives people the opportunity to take a part instead of just whinging about it.

[Ace]

Been around here since the 80's. You can report dangerous drivers and in many cases people even follow them (without getting too close that is) to help Mr Plod home in. They can't be everywhere and poor drivers really p*** people off, so this gives people the opportunity to take a part instead of just whinging about it.

something like that in NSW would be good.

[clubagreenie]

Everyone would be following each other around and getting nothing done except trying to get each other bookd for speaking on the phone (while calling 555)

[disco2hse]

Everyone would be following each other around and getting nothing done except trying to get each other bookd for speaking on the phone (while calling 555)

haha :D

Nah, but it is good to know that if some plonker is swerving across lanes coz they're way too drunk, or an idiot is swinging around between cars in a one man race against everyone else, then you have a way to report them then and there. You can get their details, exact location, etc., etc. Much more likely to lead to a conviction.

The only person who might be concerned would the person who thinks they might be the plonker or the idiot.