Axles CVs and Flanges - what's your experience

[All Ova]

Recently had ARB Diff Locks fitted front and back to my 2001 Defender 130, the guys at the shop reckons the splines on my axles are on the road to shot ... I have been in tough with HyTuff regarding their axles and flanges. He has also recommended new CVs which he carries from the UK.

Looking for advice, recommendations and any assistance - haven't had much to do with axles and diffs!

Cheers,
Lachie

[isuzurover]

Hytuff axles and flanges are a good option. I am not sure which CV they use though, there are a few options. If they are from the UK, they are likely Ashcroft or KAM (or Allmakes county CVs). Of those options I would only fit ashcroft.

Ashcroft, Rovertracks and McNamara can give you competing quotes if you are so inclined.

[Psimpson7]

The best options for the front end are Rovertracks (USA) or Ashcroft (UK). They both produce a drop in kit with CV's and axles. They are both immensley strong. I run the Rovertracks kit.

Rover Tracks Heavy Duty Land Rover Accessories (http://www.rovertracks.com/products/axles.html)

Loads of options for the rear

[Bush65]

You haven't been very specific on the condition of the splines.

The stock axles develop permanent twist and partial shearing at the splined ends due to the torsional loads.

The other thing that happens to the outer splines (at the drive flanges) is wear due to poor lubrication.

Worn splines have become more of an issue since Land Rover changed from oil lubrication to grease lubrication of the wheel bearings.

There is plenty of information on this site about converting back to oil lubrication for increased life of wheel bearings and splines.

[Slunnie]

The best options for the front end are Rovertracks (USA) or Ashcroft (UK). They both produce a drop in kit with CV's and axles. They are both immensley strong. I run the Rovertracks kit.

Rover Tracks Heavy Duty Land Rover Accessories (http://www.rovertracks.com/products/axles.html)

Loads of options for the rear
I'd be doing the same.

[crump]

I've looked at the Rovertracks gear and it says it disables the ABS for my model from memory, wouldnt that be a big downside as well as a fairly stiff insurance liability??? Also would that then also disable your Traction control.If its a stupid question I make no apology, I've apologised for too many already.;)

[Psimpson7]

yes it would Crump. Ashcrofts do a kit with the exciter ring if you need it.

Wouldnt be an isue for the original poster however as these (ABS/ETC) were never available on 130's

[isuzurover]

I've looked at the Rovertracks gear and it says it disables the ABS for my model from memory, wouldnt that be a big downside as well as a fairly stiff insurance liability??? Also would that then also disable your Traction control.If its a stupid question I make no apology, I've apologised for too many already.;)

I recall the defender has an ABS ring on the CV? It may be possible to fit an ABS ring on the new CV - like Maxi-drive used to do. Or you could use an alternate setup like the haultech traction control, that doesn't involve the CV.

If ABS is disabled then ETC will be as well, as they work off the same sensors.

EDIT - ashcroft can sell the type with ABS grooves. Maybe Rovertracks has an option as well.

We are now also able to offer late style CV"s which have grooves suitable for ABS vehicles.

CV Late £425 per pair CV Late with ABS £455 per pair

[stig0000]

this CVs that have been stated need to be imported, is there a place in aus that sell them, im keen for a set of front CVs as id rather no there not going to brack then find when they do,

[Psimpson7]

There isn't a manufacturer of upgrade CV's over here.

Ashcroft or Rovertracks are your best choices.

Some places over here supply the Ashcroft ones. I believe Ant at Coffs Harbour 4wd does.

Rovertracks supply direct

[Jim621]

What sort of saving have people got by buying from Rovertracks? - from my estimates (edit* for the rears) you pay ~$700 (450+150post divide 0.85exchange rate) delivered from rovertracks and ~$750 from buying local.

[Psimpson7]

Rovertracks kit is $660 US + Shipping which for me was about $160 US / 0.85

Not sure where you get the 450 from?

So about 1k Aussie landed.

ETA: Ah sorry just realised you may be talking about the rears.

[LowRanger]

Rovertracks CV's and axles are U.S.$650 + freight.Ashcrofts CV's sell here for around $1200 then you need the axles ?????

My CroMo Rovertracks axles and CV's arrived a couple of weeks ago.And Keith is great to deal with.

[rick130]

No love anymore for HiTough Engineering and their HyTuff axles ??

My old Maxi ones have been faultless for the last 8.5 years.

Surely Barry's rear axles at least would be cheaper than importing Keith's ?

[isuzurover]

Surely Barry's rear axles at least would be cheaper than importing Keith's ?

Yes - I am a big fan of Keith and his products, but when I bought some 24/23 front axles recently, it worked out about $50 less (at my door) For HTE axles from Barry. The AMS6418 that Barry uses should also be as good or better than anything else on the market except Keith's 300m axles.

I have bought axles and associated parts from Keith at Rovertracks, Barry at HTE (and Mal/MD previously) and Jeff McNamara - I have been very happy with the service and quality from all 3 suppliers.

[lardy]

Recently had ARB Diff Locks fitted front and back to my 2001 Defender 130, the guys at the shop reckons the splines on my axles are on the road to shot ... I have been in tough with HyTuff regarding their axles and flanges. He has also recommended new CVs which he carries from the UK.

Looking for advice, recommendations and any assistance - haven't had much to do with axles and diffs!

Cheers,
Lachie

just cos you were told they were knackered don't mean they are get a second opinion before you part with any cash mate, I know you would like to be charitable and keep that store going lol
You could always retro fit land rover ones back in if yours arer proved to be buggered unless you are flogging your truck off road all the while they are fine Land rover is substantial straight from the packet and are designed to a high enough standard for the average user for serious off roaders upgrade.

[Psimpson7]

No love anymore for HiTough Engineering and their HyTuff axles ??


I run HTE rears. Havent managed to break one yet!

They don't make a decent front option however.

[rick130]

just cos you were told they were knackered don't mean they are get a second opinion before you part with any cash mate, I know you would like to be charitable and keep that store going lol
You could always retro fit land rover ones back in if yours arer proved to be buggered unless you are flogging your truck off road all the while they are fine Land rover is substantial straight from the packet and are designed to a high enough standard for the average user for serious off roaders upgrade.

It'd be highly unusual if they weren't flogged, especially at this stage unless someone has been pedantic and popped the flanges every 10,000km and greased the splines.

I've heard of stock Sals axles breaking too, admittedly all the ones I remember were on company cars so weren't treated too kindly.

The aftermarket axles use better materials, are waisted properly (better fatigue resistance) and use better tolerances on the splines, so it's pretty much a no-brainer.
Can't recall what Land Rover charge for a set, but back when I bought mine I'm pretty sure (but could be wrong) that OE axles were dearer than Mal's anyway.

BTW, was Keith using flanged axles for the rears or separate drive flanges like Barry and Land Rover ?

[isuzurover]

BTW, was Keith using flanged axles for the rears or separate drive flanges like Barry and Land Rover ?

AFAIK Keith's flanged REAR axles are machined from forged, pre-hardened blanks. However I think he also supplies 4340 or 300m rears - which AFAIK cannot be made as a flanged axle.

The flanged rears are tempting - imagine never needing to worry about (rear) drive flanges wearing!

[LowRanger]

When I spoke to HiTough they quoted me $700 for a U.S. made equivalent Ae2522 Cvs plus GST and the HTE4L axles were $360 plus GST and then there would be an upgrade kit No.4 to fit the bigger CVs and that was $360 +GST.Keiths were just drop in and better quality CVs and worked out a lot cheaper.

Wayne

[rick130]

Been a while since I've been to Keith's site so had a quick sqizz at the front end bits and the HD upgrade of the AUE2522 CV's is US$400 and a complete axle/CV assy is US$660.

Seeing as genuine GKN AEU2522 CV's are no longer available and Keith's should be a lot stronger, that's a reasonable price for an upgraded alternative.

[uninformed]

When I spoke to HiTough they quoted me $700 for a U.S. made equivalent Ae2522 Cvs plus GST and the HTE4L axles were $360 plus GST and then there would be an upgrade kit No.4 to fit the bigger CVs and that was $360 +GST.Keiths were just drop in and better quality CVs and worked out a lot cheaper.

Wayne

Id like to know who the cv manufactures are..............last time i did some digging, Longfields, Ashcroft and Rovertracks were all made by the same company. Good chance that the CV's that Barry at Hi Tough is getting comes from the same place.....if they are 4340 with a 300m cage id say yes.

also last time I checked the longfields where not very hard, which is good for shock loading but not so good for road Km's....I ended up with some genuine gkn r066605's with antiburst ring 4140 and Hytuf stubs....

Hi Tough's material IS supperior to 4340, and about equal to 300m......

I really dont see to many people having to change aftermarket flanges due to wear. so dont really see a improvement in going to a 1 piece axle.

30 spline may be bigger at one end but its only bigger at one end......cant be much bigger than the 23/24 if it fits without mods

im very happy with my MD set up and will be going to Hi Tough for some custom axles.

biggest thing I see is when people start quoting prices......are they comparing apples to apples....just cause someone on the internet says its better maybe it isnt???? get the material specs and physical sizes of each to start a comparaison

Serg

[rick130]

[snip]

I really dont see to many people having to change aftermarket flanges due to wear. so dont really see a improvement in going to a 1 piece axle.

[snip]

Serg

As you know, there won't be any wear with oil lubed bearings. There wasn't a wear issue with 110's from the 1980's or Series vehicles, but a one piece axle would be nice for those that want to stay with greased bearings, although I wouldn't understand why you'd want to.....

The other price thing that people sometimes forget is that if their Land Rover is a work vehicle any parts purchased in Australia are GST deductible, which drops the price by around 9% when comparing to OS sourced bits.

[isuzurover]

Hi Tough's material IS supperior to 4340, and about equal to 300m......

Agree



I really dont see to many people having to change aftermarket flanges due to wear. so dont really see a improvement in going to a 1 piece axle.


My 2nd hand maxi flanges and axles (oil-lubed) in my 110 rear axle have noticeable play. I didn't worry until I looked at a (2nd hand) set in Kununurra with no play. Brian (Bearman) has worn out a set of MD flanges - I think with oil-lubed hubs.



30 spline may be bigger at one end but its only bigger at one end......cant be much bigger than the 23/24 if it fits without mods


30-spline is 1.3" diameter vs 1.24" 24 spline. Not trivial if you are talking 30spl at both ends. Salisburies can be upgraded to 1.5" 35 spline quite easily (or 1.3" 30spl at both ends).

[rick130]

Agree



My 2nd hand maxi flanges and axles (oil-lubed) in my 110 rear axle have noticeable play. I didn't worry until I looked at a (2nd hand) set in Kununurra with no play. Brian (Bearman) has worn out a set of MD flanges - I think with oil-lubed hubs.



[snip]

That does surprise me.

[uninformed]

Rick and Ben,

do you know that MD lengthend the spline engagement in their flanges a few years ago.... so those wear ones may be the older items.....For the small amount that have worn, id stay with that set up......

re 30/35 spline.......options are limited if running Maxidrive lockers. Not impossible...but would cost alot to get one off stuff made

for me the MD Hi Tough stuff is more than enough and Im happy to support them

[uninformed]

30-spline is 1.3" diameter vs 1.24" 24 spline. Not trivial if you are talking 30spl at both ends. Salisburies can be upgraded to 1.5" 35 spline quite easily (or 1.3" 30spl at both ends).

whats the advantage of having 30 spline at one end?

how do they fit through the spindles/bushes?

[rick130]

Rick and Ben,

do you know that MD lengthend the spline engagement in their flanges a few years ago.... so those wear ones may be the older items.....For the small amount that have worn, id stay with that set up......

[snip]

Yep, keep forgetting about that, they were available with two different outer spline lengths, the longer ones were known as an 'X' axle spline set.

Paula suggested those when I ordered the first set all those years ago, and so the next set that were sent to Alice Springs were automatically ordered as an 'X' set too

[Psimpson7]

Id like to know who the cv manufactures are..............last time i did some digging, Longfields, Ashcroft and Rovertracks were all made by the same company. Good chance that the CV's that Barry at Hi Tough is getting comes from the same place.....if they are 4340 with a 300m cage id say yes.


I'd say no. I believe Keith now uses a different manufacturer to Ashcroft/LF.

No idea where Barrys come from, but i would think that they are from a different place than Ashcroft/LF aswell.