D2 Autos...why don't I like them?

[Hendrik]

Hi All
I've been shopping around for a new D2, and have been looking at autos just because a good manual is proving to be rarer than a Steven Segal romantic comedy.
Having taken a few for a drive, all autos, I just can't get used to them...they annoy me more than anything...but yet everyone with a D2 auto speaks keep saying how good they are. The thing that annoys me the most about them is that when you approach a hill that my old manual D2 would have cruised up in 4th holding my foot steady on the accelerator, that auto selects a gear and eventhough I hold my foot dead still, the thing still kicks back and revs its ring off:o Not only does this ruin fuel economy, but its a PITA to drive. I don't know maybe I will get used to it and adapt my driving style to suit the auto, but for the moment I think I will keep looking for a manual.....UNLESS people can convince me other wise :D

Thanks in Advance

[Redback]

Yep I hate them too for that exact reason, why I have always driven manuals.

My view is you steer an auto, you drive a manual.

Apparently they are good off road, easier to crawl over things, but since getting my soft throttle back in low range after changing to the later ECU, (Bruce Davis chips suck:mad:) I love my manual even more now:D

Baz.

[Blknight.aus]

urmmm... I could go into explaining how if you have a turbo diesel it doesnt matter what gear your in (within reason) for your fuel economy at a given speed but someone might interpret that as being pro auto....

[Hendrik]

urmmm... I could go into explaining how if you have a turbo diesel it doesnt matter what gear your in (within reason) for your fuel economy at a given speed but someone might interpret that as being pro auto....

Well that might be the case, but it comes down to what Baz said, you drive a manual :D
Plus I know your pro manual, and probably like them for mostly the same reasons as me

[mattj]

Three months ago I was in the same position... I would have rather a vasectomy than an auto. But I found a really good Dicso, in excellent condition with low Km, and listened to the girlfriend, so got the auto.

I can't say that I regret the descision. Yes sometimes its a pain, but its not as bad as I thought it would be and I can definitly live with it. It does make me wonder however... If the auto is this good... How good is the manual?

Matt

[Pedro_The_Swift]

gees you guys go on,,,

Blknight blows your fuel economy thing right out of the water,,:Rolling:

and the auto is smarter than you,, at least it changes gears when it should,, :cool:

you lot seem to think a manual is best yet you complain about an auto changing gears-- wtf?!?!?[FishSlap]

[Slunnie]

Yep, I'll take the auto anyday.

Really, if you're that worried about fuel economy then you wouldn't be driving a 4WD, and the auto in sports mode goes up hills even better.

Just think... set and forget cruise control, and more control offroad so that you can actually drive the tricky bits rather than get out of control with all of that stalling, backing and trying again nonsense when you're in the trickiest bits of all. :D

[p38arover]

I thought the D2 used the same auto box as the P38A and I have no hunting problems with mine. Going up hills is as smooth as - you can detect gear changes as it drops down but they aren't objectionable.

Having towed with a D1 manual and a D1 auto, I know which one I prefer when towing - especially when trying to start off up a hill with a load. The auto makes it so easy.

[waz]

I wanted a manual before I got my auto. I'm now an auto man.

S&M (giggle) modes are great. Off-road I use the M mode all the time. I prefer the control.

On hills, towing a trailer, S mode is better. But, when mine kicks down under heavy throttle in D, it will go down to 2nd before I back off a bit and it changes up to third. I've just got used to it now.

I love the auto.

W

[Slunnie]

I thought the D2 used the same auto box as the P38A and I have no hunting problems with mine. Going up hills is as smooth as - you can detect gear changes as it drops down but they aren't objectionable.

Having towed with a D1 manual and a D1 auto, I know which one I prefer when towing - especially when trying to start off up a hill with a load. The auto makes it so easy.
As far as I know the D2 and the 4.0 P38 use the same gearbox which is the ZF 4HP22EH (electronic control unlike the D1/RRC) and the 4.6 P38 runs the ZF 4HP24EH which is basically a 22 with bigger, better and stronger parts to handle greater outputs. The 22 is rated to about 380Nm where the 24 is rated to about 480Nm. 380Nm is a bit too marginal with the increased power from the 4.6 which produced between 380 and 407Nm

[DiscoSaffa]

Hendrik

You don't say whether you are looking at the diesel or the V8. I can imagine it being more of an issue with the diesel than the V8. Back home I had a V8 auto, and bought the auto based on the advice of similar forums, the auto is supposed to be more reliable, and that to me (when buying a 2nd hand D2) was most important.

I had to get over my original misgivings of auto vs manual (I was very pro manual). I have to say there is now no way I would go back to a manual, on road or off (which is good as it is not an option on my current vehicle)

That said, there is one draw back with the D2 auto, and that is that on the road there is no "manual" option, which at least allows you to select and stick with your gear. This is minor though, and you do adjust your driving style to suit the box. To counter that is the auto kick down when over taking…… so much simpler than in a manual, and one could argue safer…… lets you focus on the job of piloting the car and not worry about gear changes etc etc

As for steering an auto and driving a manual, I disagree….. it becomes an art form to get the box to do what you want it to with the most subtle movements of your right foot (especially off road).

Either way, happy hunting!

[xsm]

Hendrick,

Keep looking - My D2a TD5 auto is an absolute dream on the hills. Sitting at around 100kmh and a little over 2000 rpm it has no problems going up hills without changing down. In fact you can really feel the torque of the engine in those situations. Are you test driving in sport mode? That could be your problem as sport mode will hold gears longer and change back earlier.

As far as the manual being driven and the auto being steered - well as far as sealed roads go, the Discovery is not what I would call a "drivers" car.

Cheers
Martin

[AussieAub]

I don't have a prob with mine.
Whilst I hear what the OP says about it kicking down in gears etc, mines running 235/85x16's so the "problem" was even more exaggerated than on standard tyres.

However, all I do is drop it down to 3rd and away she goes with absolutely bags of power and no issues. The revs don't go through the roof, and it doesn't appear to have much impact on economy (may even be better).
That was how I was taught to drive by police advanced driving techniques in the UK and its never let me down. The key is to read the road ahead and know how your vehicle copes with the situation/conditions, irrespective of what vehicle you drive.

On hills and overtaking, I just treat "D" as an overdrive gear.
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere in the owners manual something about this technique too.

Cheers,

..:: KIEREN ::..
2000 Disco II Auto V8
Object Of Mass Consumption
AussieAubs Disco Page (http://aussieaub.blogspot.com)

[AndyRevill]

Hendrick,

Keep looking - My D2a TD5 auto is an absolute dream on the hills. Sitting at around 100kmh and a little over 2000 rpm it has no problems going up hills without changing down. In fact you can really feel the torque of the engine in those situations. Are you test driving in sport mode? That could be your problem as sport mode will hold gears longer and change back earlier.


Cheers
Martin

Couldn't agree more - our D2a TD5 is the first auto we've had and I love it and you certainly learn to drive it so things happen the way you want. We've now got a Subaru outback petrol/auto as a daily car and it doesn't drive as well as the TD5, especially on hills - it really hunts around the gears - maybe I need a different technique;)

cheers, Andy

[Hendrik]

Thanks for all the replies guys, just the sort of comments I have been after.

Regarding Fuel economy, I'm not expecting it to have the economy of a Prius.
Like I've said, I would probably get used to it...its just that a Td5 Auto, doesn't feel as good as driving the manual. Just to me, I have always driven manuals. I'll go have a drive of a few more...see if I can find one in good condition to start off with, the one I drove yesterday was in terrible condition, had a worn out engine mount and the guy (who is a mechanic) just would not believe me when I told him the drone is from a worn out engine mount. Was also surprised about the fact that he had removed the fuel cooler, because he said its a fuel heater and you don't need it in Aus..."yeah righto mate".

Will try having a go at sports mode next time too, I didn't even have time to try it out, I was too occupied with the guy arguing with me about that fact that all td5's drone at 2200rpm because its a 5cyl and not balanced properly from factory...so I said "yep righto mate, you can keep your car"

[that_kid]

im a devoted manual fan coming from a road bike background and after having my td5 auto for 18months the only manual ill ever own again is going to be either a bike or a sports car. The set n forget auto is excellent and yes you just have to adapt your driving style a bit. an extra 500rpm to pre empt a hill helps. although now that i have 4.11s on 265/75s it goes up serious hills on the cruise control without even flinching i love it!

that said my ultimate selling point is how else am i supposed to drive up a track n hold a "non alcoholic" beverage at the same time?:beer:

In the rough stuff u cant go past the auto n when its in M in low it may as well be a manual, "look mum no clutch!":wasntme:

just buy one you wont regret it

[Ean Austral]

Gday Hendrick,

I have a D2 5sp and Dad has a D2a auto, and I would have the 5sp any day..It suits his style and he tows a bloody big van with it so its perfect for him..
I haven't driven it since he had it chipped, and, it may have been my driving, but the car always seemed and sounded like it needed another gear..the drone drove me mad after a 200km trip on the Perth freeway

I wont say I would never have an Auto, as I will proberly look at upgrading to a D2a or D3 next year..(depending how the D2 goes on the canning trip)..and I know that looking myself a D2a 5sp is dam hard to find..

Anyway thats my 2c worth , I hope you find one that you enjoy and serve's you well..

Cheers Ean

[Graeme]

I test-drove an auto TD5 when looking to replace my 1st manual TD5 D2 but found the unlocked torque converter unpalatable so got another manual. The D2 is about to be sold, having purchased a D4 and I prefer using the D4's 6-speed auto box in manual mode (5-speed by default) for most of my driving.

[Shenanigans Ride]

I must agree that the torque converter issue is a pain. At 80 to 90 on the open road the engine revs it's head off if I try to accelerate too hard. I have to ease off and hope that the thing will eventually lock allowing me to accelerate smoothly. Saying that having auto is good as I do a lot of driving in town and traffic in Brisbane is getting worse by the day.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

"revs its head off"

ya gotta love it,,


so how many gears did you kick it down?:p

or is this just 4th unlocked?

or is this a 500nm chip?(does torque increase lockup time?)

if it takes forever to lock back up, I'd say you have a problem,,

[2 rocks]

The Td5 is the first auto 4WD I've ever owned. I never wanted one, thought they were Satan's own spawn from the fire pits of Hell, especially as my D1 V8 was a manual...however...

After chasing a mate in his GU around the dunes of Lucky Bay (near Kalbarri - great spot!) in my outrageously reliable, manual, but sadly asthmatic '88 Paj TD - he offered me spin in the GU and I ate a bit of humble pie, it was absolutely brilliant in the sand (and the 3.0 diesel didn't even blow up :p) where the poor old Paj lost momentum on the up-change.

So when I went looking for a Td5, I was happy to give the auto a go. It's not perfect in all situations, (but neither is a manual, especially the freeway crawl), but it does a bloody good job.

Until recently my 2nd car was a manual and I'll probably buy another so I dont get withdrawal symptoms - but try a few more before you decide, yes the hanging on to gears thing is a bit weird at first...but you get used to it. ;)
Cheers
Mike

[Grumpy]

I must agree that the torque converter issue is a pain. At 80 to 90 on the open road the engine revs it's head off if I try to accelerate to hard. I have to ease off and hope that the thing will eventually lock allowing me to accelerate smoothly. Saying that having auto is good as I do a lot of driving in town and traffic in Brisbane is getting worse by the day.

How many Kays have you done? Since mine has been overhauled it goes into lock up at 80 to 82 kmh and will hold that gear unless:-
1/ I drop below 78 or so.
2/ Put my foot down a bit harder than I would have should have.
3/ Have it in sport mode. Then it is more agressive. [also the same in CC.

Tony :wheelchair:

[discodancer]

The Td5 is the first auto 4WD I've ever owned. I never wanted one, thought they were Satan's own spawn from the fire pits of Hell,


Much the same feeling..after years of series LR; Classic RR; Isuzu county.

Bought a new Td5 auto in 2001 and found it "hunted" between 3rd/4th at around 80kph when towing. (On gravel this is often the top safe speed)

Fitted a BD chip ( there weren't many other options back then) and WOW!
Different car. The extra grunt means that it stays in top gear..or at least you can keep it there with driving style and without flogging the engine.

On bitumen it rips over hills even with a camper in tow. eg on the Hume H/way I can hardly remember it changing down between Melb -Sydney.

Using the transfer box and the M & S option you have good control offroad..and as someone else said ..it is usually in the right gear!

Heaps better..and now I have "fallen in love with the Devil"

Cheers
Bob

[Fluids]

Been a manual driver my whole life ... just dislike auto's. Period. When we were looking for our D2a, finding a manual one (without incredible K's) was a lesson in frustration.

After reading many assuring posts on AULRO, we decided to go auto (didn't have much choice anyway). I must say, I'm now a convert! :)

It's our daily drive, so the missus has to drive it (more than I do) and she's a manual convert too ... not any more! We are glad we bought an auto. We live at Stockton Beach, and for the first time in my life beach driving is easy ... even my 9 yr old can drive the D2a down the beach and across the dunes !! It's fun taking non-4wd types down the beach and letting them drive the D2a ... they reckon they won't be able to do it ... and the Disco just goes where they point it. Easy!

Yes, they can run out of breath on big hills in 4th (but 4th is overdrive and it is only a 2.5L engine btw). Just pull the stick back to 3rd, let it lock-up, and she powers away up hills with ease. The Td5's fuel economy & towing ability more than make up any short fall I originally precieved.

The electronic auto in the D2 is light years ahead of the old hydraulic auto's of yesteryear. Adjust your driving style, and learn to use the auto box and I reckon you'll be a happy camper. You can run it as a clutchless manual offroad in low range, and even in high range you can still select and hold a given gear if you really need to.

I'm sold! My 0.02c

Kev..

[Tombie]

Short of sports cars on a track.. You dont drive anything anymore...

Its a 4wd... And either manual or auto have their benefits...

For slow, controlled offroad work (esp climbing) the auto cant be beaten..

And in sand, auto is so much nicer on the vehicle....


Ive had 2 Auto and 2 manual Landies...

No issue with either box.

[maggsie]

I have always had a manual 4WD, however I am in my second auto V8 and have no regrets. The auto driver has the best of both worlds as you can drive an auto as a manual whenever the need arises.

Maggsie
04 V8 Disco

[Shenanigans Ride]

I find that when I accelerate at 80-90 the torque converter usually does not lock. It never kicks down a gear, just revs high until I back off. Car has done 179000Km should the box need an overhaul at this stage? it performs perfectly in every other way. Could do without any big bills at this time so fingers crossed

[MarknDeb]

We have the auto and its very good especialy when towing, yes it changes down and revs on a hill but after a little it changes up and then uses the torque and just pulls like nothing, when it does this we pull away from our friends LC up Cunninghams gap when towing our vans to Stanthorpe

[Shenanigans Ride]

Will be taking mine up Cunninghams in a couple of weeks pulling an A'liner. I'll be interested to see if mine behaves so well

[MarknDeb]

Its been nearly 12 months since the last trip but i think we sat on just over 3000 rpm and doing the speed limit of 70, it just pulls the run up.

It has been a while so my RPMs may be rong ok for those of you that like to dispute things

[Shenanigans Ride]

Does it stay in 3rd or change up to 4th? Which do you find better with the van on Sport or normal mode?

[MarknDeb]

It in 3rd untill you get onto a couple of the short straights then changes up then depending on how hard the corner is it can go back to 3rd, when towing and we have a hill i allways use sport, i find when using cruise control it very rarely goes over 3250rpm to regain speed so i have adopted this and it seems to work very well, not lost power

[slug_burner]

Does it stay in 3rd or change up to 4th? Which do you find better with the van on Sport or normal mode?

The box will also lock up in 3rd so if you don't want it to go up to 4th just stick the lever in 3 and the TC will lock up.

[DiscoSaffa]

I find that when I accelerate at 80-90 the torque converter usually does not lock. It never kicks down a gear, just revs high until I back off. Car has done 179000Km should the box need an overhaul at this stage? it performs perfectly in every other way. Could do without any big bills at this time so fingers crossed

I remember reading in another forum a while back that this is an issue with D2 Autos. Lock up in 4th is around this speed and especially when towing at these speeds the box tends not to lock up (a real issue for the horse box towing aristocracy in the English countryside :))

The advice was that because of this the auto tends to run hotter for longer periods than designed, and what it meant was that one just had to change the transmission fluid more regularly than recommended, especially in the hotter Australian climate. Do this and all should be OK. As an aside, the warning was also to make sure that the correct AT fluid is used when changed……. Apparently the D2 auto boxes are sensitive that way……. :)

[Gold_TD5]

Love my manual, test drove a couple of autos first up but I could not gel with them, felt right soon as I pulled away in the manual.
I like how I can put it in fifth at 60kph and leave it there as long as I like, providing the motor is spinning over 1500rpm I never change gears. :)

[Pedro_The_Swift]

The V8 will drop into top below 60,,
though its walking a fine line to keep it there---
(yes to both!:p)

[scarry]

As an aside, the warning was also to make sure that the correct AT fluid is used when changed……. Apparently the D2 auto boxes are sensitive that way……. :)[/FONT][/COLOR]

The auto tranny fluid in the 01 D2 i had was burnt after 40k,no towing,but a lot of hard sand work in hot weather.
The advice was use synthetic fluid & have done so since,no probs at all.Have used this fluid in the 04 Disco since new.

I don't have any probs with the D2 auto,have had them for over 10yrs now.Don't recon you can go past them in sand or slow rocky type 4WDing work.They do use a bit more fuel than a manual,particularly doing continual slow type work such as tottering around paddocks shooting for example.
On a run the fuel difference is negligable,particularly as the 'box is locked up.

The ZF boxes are one of the best around,and very reliable,as with any machinery,must be serviced correctly.
They also suit turbo diesels well,due to the turbo lag.

Beats replacing clutches anyday.

On another note,fuel use in my brother in laws GU is almost identicle to my D2,and also mine would pull away up the Toowoomba range before it was chipped.His is a manual

[Nankas]

I bought my D2a 8 months ago threw the camper on and went with family. Up hills the auto was all over the place i could not predict what it would do, sometimes pull like a train others rev its guts out. Took it too dealer who sent me to Landrover specialist in Frankston he gave me the:confused:. Not satisfied i read about the MAF on this site, cleaned it. Wow:eek: the car pulls like a train all the time, the transmission is now predictable and holds up most hills. I suspect many cars that you would be testing may have this problem, therefore not giving you the full capability.

Regards

[MarknDeb]

Will be taking mine up Cunninghams in a couple of weeks pulling an A'liner. I'll be interested to see if mine behaves so well


How did you go up Cunninghams, iam interested to hear if you could get a good run aswell

[ozscott]

Mate - the rate of people replying with auto will be higher cause they sold so many more of the things...cause people generally like autos these days.

I have a Manual D2 V8 and an auto D1 V8 - love them both but the D2 is streets ahead as a driver's car and I love the manual. I tow a 2 tonn boat and yep on really steep hills from a start you might have to slot it into low range to save the clutch (I run 31 inch tyres which make it taller gear than standard too) but really you cant kill the clutches in the V8 it seems. The manual tows better than my auto (and that V8 is a strong engine with excellent compression and full australian bosch ignition so it goes a lot better than most D1's).

What people are not harping on and I reckon its important is this manual = 5 speed; auto=4 speed and having that extra ratio is more important than the slip and gearing down of the torque converter in the auto.

Mtcw

Cheers
PS. I have driven D2 autos and test drove autos before ordering a new 5 Speed V8

[cockie55]

For on and off road and towing auto works a treat. While a tad frustrating on big hills that is not the fault of the box.

I have been waiting a few years now for my D1 hydraulic ZF to give up the ghost to then put in a electronic ZF with a view to putting in a Compushift. A great piece of kit that makes a auto unbeatable. Unfortunately i think I will be waiting a while as it is still going strong.

https://www.hgmelectronics.com/display/hgm/COMPUSHIFT

Note ignore what it says it also supports the electronic ZF4HP-22