VNT Turbo and Performance Mods - 300 Tdi

[Jock The Rock]

Gday

Well I finally got round to fitting up my new turbo this afternoon

This is what I have bought so far, and the following photos will show how it is done :p for any who are interested that is.

I bought this in a kit from the UK, all I can say is do it. Everything you need comes in the kit; all you have to do is bolt it on and follow the instructions

So here goes...

The new turbo (Garrett GT22V):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/480.jpg

New 200 Tdi Manifold:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/440.jpg

The little bits that make up the kit:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/481.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/482.jpg

The old ready for removal:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/483.jpg

Bare slate ready to start again:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/484.jpg

Manifold, new studs and oil hoses on; intake hose extended:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/485.jpg

Turbo on :twisted:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/486.jpg

Plumbing almost finished:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/487.jpg

All done:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/03/228.jpg

Tips:
Bolt the oil drain hose onto the turbo then lower the turbo into place and bolt on
When shortening the intake hoses use a flat wheel to smooth up the edges of the rubber, makes it look snazzy
There'll be more I can't think of any at the moment

After I fired it up and took it for a spin down the road I was disappointed. I didn't think this was a worth the money I paid for it. Driving home from the workshop it was awesome down low, but up high I was struggling to hold 110.

I feel I gained lots of initial acceleration, but then it dies and hits a flat spot.

I reckon this is to do with a restriction caused by the standard exhaust. So.. 3" will be on next week hopefully :twisted:

Bigger intercooler is on order should be here next week, so I'll be able to wind the fuel up a little. The intercooler should keep the EGTs in check

I reckon I'll get hold of a performance head from the UK and bolt that on as well

After that I'm tossing up an Air-Water setup, there's a fella here in Launceston who makes custom alloy radiators/intercoolers. He owns a 300 Tdi Disco with his own setup and that thing flies. He is also keen to find a market for Landrover specific air-water intercooler setups. I have put him onto this forum and he should be on sometime

At the end I plan on handing it over to a turbo specialist for a nice tune up and tweek

I'll keep you posted on the engine mods as the come in :)

Hope this helps some people

[justinc]

Hi Jock,

Looks the goods, I'll be fitting one soon too, so you'll be the guinea pig :p

As regards the disappointing performance, I reckon you'll need more fuel. Lots more, as these can easily and quickly flow 20Psi:o

Like we talked about earlier, wait til the pyro is on then go for it:twisted:

Good job:)

JC

[Jock The Rock]

Hi Jock,

Looks the goods, I'll be fitting one soon too, so you'll be the guinea pig :p

As regards the disappointing performance, I reckon you'll need more fuel. Lots more, as these can easily and quickly flow 20Psi:o

Like we talked about earlier, wait til the pyro is on then go for it:twisted:

Good job:)

JC

Just make sure you bolt that bottom oil drain hose onto the turbo and trim the flexible hose off to the right length; then lower the turbo into place. I learnt the hard way and had to pull the turbo off again

Yeah they do spool up very quickly a lot quicker than standard. I had a play on some gravel at work and it will wheelspin with a dab of throttle on take off :p

I did notice it didn't blow anywhere near as much smoke as well, so I guess thats a sign on the fueling too :p

Have you heard of Rob Lupo?

Thanks :)

[HBWC]

i soon plan to do the same but im diching the air to air and converting the intake manifold to a water to air intercooler for even less pressure drop

also have you moved your air intake??

[slug_burner]

Looks the goods.

About the trouble holding 110 km/h. If you could do it before I don't think that a 3" exhaust is going to help. I would look at the diaphragm controlling the vanes in the turbo, they may not be opening the vanes enough at higher gas flow therefore causing too much back pressure. This could be a trade off between lower gas flow small opening of the vanes and the bigger opening required the higher gas flow.

[Michele]

(...)
I bought this in a kit from the UK, all I can say is do it. (...)
New 200 Tdi Manifold:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/440.jpg


I'm quite sure you bought the same kit I have.
If so, that's a genuine, brand new 2.8 Powerstroke manifold.

Sorry to hear you're not fully happy (yet) with it.
I'll have to wait another week before fitting mine (hi-flow intercooler is being made in UK at the mo), I look forward to following your progress.

Couple of things:
1)did you have to modify the intake hose as per instructions?
I got hold of a kit for a mate first, and everything went in place keeping the hose as it is, no fuss.
2)are you planning to fit an EGT gauge?
The plate on the factory setup is very handy, I'm still wondering where to plumb the future sender with the new VNT...

My mate is very happy with this conversion, I heard from other pals from UK and they're very happy too, seems like the Tdi "go like rockets now", most of them are still fine tuning with boost pressure and fuel pumps though.

[Jock The Rock]

i soon plan to do the same but im diching the air to air and converting the intake manifold to a water to air intercooler for even less pressure drop

also have you moved your air intake??

Air intake is still in the same spot, but it has an extension just behind the motor and the end is shortened a little bit


Looks the goods.

About the trouble holding 110 km/h. If you could do it before I don't think that a 3" exhaust is going to help. I would look at the diaphragm controlling the vanes in the turbo, they may not be opening the vanes enough at higher gas flow therefore causing too much back pressure. This could be a trade off between lower gas flow small opening of the vanes and the bigger opening required the higher gas flow.

I have a boost gauge on the inlet manifold, it's pumping 15psi into the manifold at 100 - 110km/h. Which is the maximum to turbo is boosting to


I'm quite sure you bought the same kit I have.
If so, that's a genuine, brand new 2.8 Powerstroke manifold.

Sorry to hear you're not fully happy (yet) with it.
I'll have to wait another week before fitting mine (hi-flow intercooler is being made in UK at the mo), I look forward to following your progress.

Couple of things:
1)did you have to modify the intake hose as per instructions?
I got hold of a kit for a mate first, and everything went in place keeping the hose as it is, no fuss.
2)are you planning to fit an EGT gauge?
The plate on the factory setup is very handy, I'm still wondering where to plumb the future sender with the new VNT...

My mate is very happy with this conversion, I heard from other pals from UK and they're very happy too, seems like the Tdi "go like rockets now", most of them are still fine tuning with boost pressure and fuel pumps though.

I think your right about the manifold, it has Brasil stamped on it. Those 2.8s are made in South America I think?

I didn't check whether the hose needed modifying or not I just did it :p I should have checked first I guess :p

Yeah I do have an EGT gauge; it used to be fitted in that little plate just before the turbo. I didn't have the correct size tap handy yesterday; but I plan on drilling and tapping the manifold just before the turbo and sticking it in there. I'll post up pics sometime next week, should have it in Tuesday or Wednesday

Funny you say that, I reckon I'll have to start looking for a Disco transfer case. 1st gear just goes by too fast

[Disco_owner]

Hi Jock,

That's a very nice Kit , I recall Bush65 here posted up a table of RPM vs Boost to tune the boost compensator according to performance of Variable Vane turbo from 2.8 international ,

Edit: I found the Post

Allisport VNT for 300Tdi - LR4x4 - The Land Rover Forum (http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php'showtopic=25806)

[Michele]

Funny you say that, I reckon I'll have to start looking for a Disco transfer case. 1st gear just goes by too fast

And I though to fit 4.1 R+Ps in the future :D

[slug_burner]

Air intake is still in the same spot, but it has an extension just behind the motor and the end is shortened a little bit



I have a boost gauge on the inlet manifold, it's pumping 15psi into the manifold at 100 - 110km/h. Which is the maximum to turbo is boosting to

I think your right about the manifold, it has Brasil stamped on it. Those 2.8s are made in South America I think?

I didn't check whether the hose needed modifying or not I just did it :p I should have checked first I guess :p

Yeah I do have an EGT gauge; it used to be fitted in that little plate just before the turbo. I didn't have the correct size tap handy yesterday; but I plan on drilling and tapping the manifold just before the turbo and sticking it in there. I'll post up pics sometime next week, should have it in Tuesday or Wednesday

Funny you say that, I reckon I'll have to start looking for a Disco transfer case. 1st gear just goes by too fast

That is fine however you could still have the exhaust choked down too much (by the turbo vanes as it goes into the turbine not by the exhaust pipe after the turbo), without a pressure gauge there you don't know. When at 100 km you should be doing 2500 rpm or so and the tuning info on Bush65's post suggests that you should have over 20 psi at the inlet manifold at that rpm with Wide Open Throttle.

[Jock The Rock]

Well I took it for a drive today, and I've come to the conclusion I was a bit wrong. It is now very fast off the line and accelerating through the gears:twisted:

Lucky there were no speed cameras


And I though to fit 4.1 R+Ps in the future :D

You'll have to take it for a spin before you decide on that :p


That is fine however you could still have the exhaust choked down too much (by the turbo vanes as it goes into the turbine not by the exhaust pipe after the turbo), without a pressure gauge there you don't know. When at 100 km you should be doing 2500 rpm or so and the tuning info on Bush65's post suggests that you should have over 20 psi at the inlet manifold at that rpm with Wide Open Throttle.

So how do I fix that problem? Not sure I really understand where your coming from there.

The other thing is this isn't actually from Allisport. I bought this kit from another place in the UK, worked out a bit cheaper. They may have adjusted the wastegate differently to an Allisport VNT

I think I'll invest in a tacho :p

[Michele]

Well (...) I was a bit wrong. It is now very fast off the line and accelerating through the gears:twisted:


HA!!!

:burnrubber:

[Bush65]

The turbo that Allisport and Allard include with their kits is larger than the one used on the HS2.8L - turbine and compressor are both next larger size.

The HS2.8L turbo is a Garrett GT2256V (Garrett part number 724652-0001) - 22 is the turbine series, 56 is the diameter of the exducer (outlet) of the compressor impeller in mm.

IIRC the other turbos are Garrett GT2559V - 25 turbine series and 59mm compressor exducer. A member of this board fitted the Allisport kit to a 300Tdi in a Defender 130. The vehicle was later sold to another board member, and there has been information posted about the turbo including numbers.

The VNT turbos do not have a wastegate. They have an actuator that controls the position of the vanes open/close and effectively the turbine nozzle. The actuator looks like the actuator used to open/close an internal wastegate, which leads to the confusion.

In the case of these particular VNT turbos, the actuator uses boost pressure - the majority of VNT turbos use vacuum or compressed air controlled by computer.

As boost pressure increases, the actuator opens the nozzle vanes. The heat in the exhaust drives the turbo and more heat (increased fuel) is required to increase the boost pressure.

[Michele]

BTW, is it just me or there's a lack of infos about the 2256 on the official Garrett site?:confused:

I didn't find any specs sheet.

[Bush65]

BTW, is it just me or there's a lack of infos about the 2256 on the official Garrett site?:confused:

I didn't find any specs sheet.
They don't list a GT2256, only GT2256V (the VNT version).

For whatever reason, Garrett have not released any details of their VNT turbos. Some aftermarket places are starting to list replacement parts for these, but Garrett don't.

[Vern]

can find out what they come off on here http://www.turbotechnics.com/docs/catalogue.pdf.
I have a gt2256v and a couple of gt2260v's in the shed, if the turbo on the d1 dies then i may go down this route, the 2260's are for the isuzu:)

[dullbird]

vern you could always donate one to the dullbirds got a slow 300tdi fund.....:D

[Jock The Rock]

Well the 3" has opened it up a lot, but it needs higher boost pressure than the 15psi it's running atm

To fix that I need more fuel

But before I do that I need to start cooling it down a bit, the EGT temps this thing is pulling is making the head a bit to warm for me.

It was suggested I fit a V8 County radiator, all good I thought. Yep checked with JC; they are a bolt in fitment. Then on the way home today I had a think, the County radiators don't have an engine oil cooler fitted into them like the standard radiator :(

Anyone have any ideas?

My original plan was to fit the County radiator and have a BIG front mount intercooler made up. Now I'll have to have a rethink

For those that are interested here's where I fitted my pyro probe:

Drilled and tapped
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/02/1659.jpg

In place
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/02/1660.jpg

[justinc]

Sorry Jock forgot to mention that bit, we fitted the county rad to a 130 with a 4BD1t, so no engine oil cooler in the rad anyway.
There are a few good quality oil coolers around, but personally I would check the dimensions of a 1980's RX7 engine oil cooler as I think they are a good size to fit across the front, quite a low profile too so won't interfere with anything, and easy to obtain.


JC

[disco_ute]

Would a radiator out of a 3.9L Rangie fit? It has oil cooler tanks on both sides I have one sitting in the shed that needs a re-core PM if you are interested.

Mick

[Jock The Rock]

Sorry Jock forgot to mention that bit, we fitted the county rad to a 130 with a 4BD1t, so no engine oil cooler in the rad anyway.
There are a few good quality oil coolers around, but personally I would check the dimensions of a 1980's RX7 engine oil cooler as I think they are a good size to fit across the front, quite a low profile too so won't interfere with anything, and easy to obtain.


JC

No worries JC, I have to stop in to the wreckers sometime so I'll check it out

Otherwise something like this doesn't look to bad
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Al-Transmission-Engine-Oil-Cooler-16-row-Hi-Performance_W0QQitemZ110487601833QQcmdZViewItemQQp tZAU_Car_Parts_Accessories?hash=item19b99302a9


Would a radiator out of a 3.9L Rangie fit? It has oil cooler tanks on both sides I have one sitting in the shed that needs a re-core PM if you are interested.

Mick

Thanks mate

Any chance you could post up the dimensions?

[Jock The Rock]

Bolted this in the other day

I don't plan on keeping it there, and the one I had before was going to be too difficult to mount

I'm going to have a custom front mount made up at some stage. Works out cheaper than an Allisport one :eek:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/02/846.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/03/229.jpg

[up2nogood]

Just looking at this stuff, but am a little lost....

I can't find a website for 'Allisport' but I can for 'Allard'.

Where's the former located?

[rick130]

Just looking at this stuff, but am a little lost....

I can't find a website for 'Allisport' but I can for 'Allard'.

Where's the former located?

http://www.allisport.com/ are based in the UK.

[up2nogood]

Thanks, will have a look at their kit too.

[Jock The Rock]

Gday mate

I sourced my kit from here

Land Rover conversions - M&D Engineering (http://www.mdengineering.co.uk/)

Although everyone seems to refer to it as an 'Allisport" turbo because I guess they were the first ones to bring this sort of thing out maybe?

M&D were the cheapest at the time I bought my kit

[up2nogood]

Is there any sepcific difference between Allard and Allisport for these kits?

As for MD, looks like they sell the 2.8TGV engine manifold and turbo?

[agrojnr]

Have you guy's looked at this mob

Twisted Performance - Diesel Land Rover & Range Rover Tuning And Styling Products - Defender, Discovery, Freelander, Range Rover Sport, TD4, TD5, TD6, TDV6, TDi (http://www.twistedperformance.co.uk)


Adam

[Bush65]

Is there any sepcific difference between Allard and Allisport for these kits?

As for MD, looks like they sell the 2.8TGV engine manifold and turbo?
Jock has fitted a 2.8TGV manifold and turbo.

Murray, rijidij on AULRO has the Allisport kit on his 130. The 130 was originally owned by xrayxray, who fitted the Allisport kit and has a thread with a fair bit of info and pics.

The VNT turbo with the Allisport kit is larger than the one fitted to the 2.8TGV. Garrett GT2559V vs GT2256V - note the first & second numbers are the turbine size (i.e. 25 is next size larger turbine from 22), third & fourth numbers are diameter of compressor wheel in mm (i.e. 59mm vs 56mm).

From the info/pics I have seen the Allisport and Allard kits look to use the same turbo, manifold.

[Michele]

As Jock knows I installed a twin VNT kit last Sat.
Due to a - erm - minor issue with a battery cable Vs. exaust
:bangin:
the truck is off duty and will be back on road hopefully this weekend :oops2:
Will explain later :mad:

In the meanwhile, here's a pic of my new hiflow intercooler, standard size :)

[philco]

Hi Michele, what was the set up for the twin turbos ? would love to see some pics

[Michele]

Aha sorry, maybe my mistake, I meant mine and Jock's are twins, same kind of kit, not that I fitted 2 turbos (which would be uber cool though :eek:)

Sorry :)

[up2nogood]

Hey Michele, who made the intercooler for you?

[philco]

Hi sorry Michele, was hoping you had a cool design and set up no one else had thought of with a twin turbo set up, imagine the power from the 300tdi with a twin turbo set up!!! cool!!!

[Michele]

Hi all,
'cooler made by a good guy in UK used to work with WRC teams and other cool (aha) stuff like that, will pass the contact.

Twin turbos?
I wish I had the €€€€ to make all sort of my wildest dreams a reality...!

[philco]

I wonder if the TDV6 twin turbo set up could be copied onto the 300 TDi ? or is it just wishfull thinking? ohh forgot its got 2 more cylinders so that rules that idea out

[marcecooter]

Hello from Italy first of all !

Thanks for the pictures, very useful for the DIY !

Marcello

[Michele]

Any update?
My conversion is finally done and I'm enjoying the new setup with tweaked pump, I fitted the thermocouple and just need to feed the EGT thermometer to monitor the temp...will do in these days.

Given my - erm - experience with a suicidal starter cable :mad: I also wrapped the dumpipe with an heat shield, and another sheet will protect the starter; the damper reservoir had the same treatment, as being so close to the turbo it was used to get hot...:eek:

Updated page with some tiny pics :)
my "EVO" kit... (http://www.whitedogrover.com/vnt.html)

[Jock The Rock]

Na nothing myself

I had a CV let go the other day so thats put the mods on hold for a while

Although I do have that Performance head sitting on my bedroom floor waiting for a rainy weekend :p

[Jock The Rock]

Turner Engineering "Performance" Head is on and all torqued down :twisted:

I'll finish it off tomorrow and do the P-Gasket and Timing belt while I'm at it

Should be interesting to see how much difference it makes

Pics tomorrow

Next step is a week on the mainland getting Diesel Gas, then trying to cool it down with a new radiator and intercooler. Then new injectors, re plumb the intake, a catch can and a tune up ..... Does it ever end

Note: The author does not recomend you try to upgrade your Landrovers performance; it is a costly and time consuming process that never ends :p

[Jock The Rock]

Well it now flies, for a Defender :)

While we were at we wound the fuel up a bit more. It's now pulling 750 under a heavy load with a max boost of 17 psi

We gave the head an extra torguing sequence so it should hold up to the higher pressures. (40Nm - 60Nm - 60 degrees - 60 degrees and 20 degrees for the ones that need it)

The new head hasn't really done much, except help to cool it a bit. Being a newer head it has the extra cooling galleries

I hope to tweak the turbo a bit more so I can run closer to 18 - 19 psi

I'm not quite getting wheelspin on the tarmac yet, but it would rip it up on the gravel :twisted:

So anyone after a stock 300 Tdi head, complete with valves? (Done 105,000km)

[Jock The Rock]

Diesel Gas went on during the week

It has dropped fuel comsumption down to about 8.5L/100km for diesel which is great

And it has transformed the driveability of the thing, it is now easy to swing out and overtake; no knocking back to 4th. Just stomp it in 5th and the thing responds

I also wound the fuel screw back 1/2 a turn to cool the EGTs down

[zuno555]

Good news so far re diesel gas. You must be up to quite a few bikkies chasing performance on the old 300tdi. Be interesting to dyno it. After my fuel pump tweak on standard 29" tyres I got an almighty 62kw at the wheels, haha.

Your fuel economy figures, were they on the BFG muddies in your pic? Are they 33's? That is pretty good if they are, I am averaging around 12.5L/100 on my 33's with roof racks on (similar setup to you)

750* is pretty high, but I take it if you back off throttle a tiny bit they go down dramatically yeah? Did gas increase or decrease EGT's? I can easily hit 720* @ 16psi been silly under load up hills, but its easy to keep them around max 650* with a bit of throttle control.

Do you still get full govt rebate ($2k ?)for diesel gas? Approx how much out of pocket were you?

Overtaking for me is basically a no no, or plan 5 mins in advance on a down hill run with a tail wind. :)

Sorry for 20 questions!

Cheers.

[Michele]

Diesel Gas went on during the week

It has dropped fuel comsumption down to about 8.5L/100km

Tell more about the gas gizmo?
Pics?
:D

[Jock The Rock]

Good news so far re diesel gas. You must be up to quite a few bikkies chasing performance on the old 300tdi. Be interesting to dyno it. After my fuel pump tweak on standard 29" tyres I got an almighty 62kw at the wheels, haha.

Let's not talk about the bikkies :p I've got a few more things to do to it before I dyno it and claim it finished engine wise

Your fuel economy figures, were they on the BFG muddies in your pic? Are they 33's? That is pretty good if they are, I am averaging around 12.5L/100 on my 33's with roof racks on (similar setup to you)

Yeah on the Muddies all though they are 235/85s (31.5's). I used to be getting about 12.5 with the roof rack on, and I don't drive slowly

750* is pretty high, but I take it if you back off throttle a tiny bit they go down dramatically yeah? Did gas increase or decrease EGT's? I can easily hit 720* @ 16psi been silly under load up hills, but its easy to keep them around max 650* with a bit of throttle control.

Yeh I don't like taking it above 750 for very long at all. I had it fueled up a fair bit, when I took it for a spin on gas the temps flew up to 720 with a small load up hill. So I have wound the fuel screw back 1/2 turn and it seems to be back where it was.

Do you still get full govt rebate ($2k ?)for diesel gas? Approx how much out of pocket were you?

Yeah the buggers have dropped it to $1750 then to $1500 for all conversions after June 30th. But yeah I will get the full $1750. The way bee utey did my conversion it cost me about $200 (after the rebate). Apart from travel from Tassie and a damn good holiday along the way

By far the cheapest and best upgrade I've done so far


Overtaking for me is basically a no no, or plan 5 mins in advance on a down hill run with a tail wind. :)

I should have taken you for a spin while I was in Melbourne waiting for the boat :twisted:

Sorry for 20 questions!

Cheers.


Tell more about the gas gizmo?
Pics?
:D

Pics will come soon enough :)

[NikolaiV]

Well it now flies, for a Defender :)


So anyone after a stock 300 Tdi head, complete with valves? (Done 105,000km)

Stock 300Tdi head with valves you say... Wonder what it would cost to get over here (NZ) - mine is on borrowed time, and they aren`t exactly thick on the ground in NZ

[Jock The Rock]

Stock 300Tdi head with valves you say... Wonder what it would cost to get over here (NZ) - mine is on borrowed time, and they aren`t exactly thick on the ground in NZ

Sorry mate I sold it a while ago

I still have the stock turbo for sale if anyone is interested though?

Best place I can suggest for a new/reconditioned head is these fellas: Home (http://www.turnerengineering.co.uk/)

Very easy to deal with, and postage was 3 days from the UK to Tassie :o

[Jock The Rock]

Tell more about the gas gizmo?
Pics?
:D

Hey mate

I finally got around to uploading the pics

Do you have LPG for cars over there?

Mounting of the tank:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/823.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/824.jpg

Converter:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/825.jpg

Gas:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/826.jpg

[philco]

Stock 300Tdi head with valves you say... Wonder what it would cost to get over here (NZ) - mine is on borrowed time, and they aren`t exactly thick on the ground in NZ

Mate being a kiwi myself i would go for the Isuzu Mu 2.8 Tdi motor change the whole motor gearbox and transfer, should line up with the the axles. be cheap there.

[Michele]

Hey mate

I finally got around to uploading the pics

Do you have LPG for cars over there?
[/IMG]

Thanks for the pics, I did miss your post!
:D

LPG cars?
I think so
;)

[Jock The Rock]

For anyone who is interested.

I went from 235/85s (31s) to 285/75 (33s) today and it made next to no difference in power, if anything it seems a bit faster :twisted:

[Pedro]

Well it now flies, for a Defender :)

While we were at we wound the fuel up a bit more. It's now pulling 750 under a heavy load with a max boost of 17 psi

We gave the head an extra torguing sequence so it should hold up to the higher pressures. (40Nm - 60Nm - 60 degrees - 60 degrees and 20 degrees for the ones that need it)

The new head hasn't really done much, except help to cool it a bit. Being a newer head it has the extra cooling galleries

I hope to tweak the turbo a bit more so I can run closer to 18 - 19 psi

I'm not quite getting wheelspin on the tarmac yet, but it would rip it up on the gravel :twisted:

So anyone after a stock 300 Tdi head, complete with valves? (Done 105,000km)
if you are after performance turner engineering in the uk does ported and flow tested heads for 500 pounds giving between 7 and 10 hp more but im not sure if it is a new head. Also have you thought about hood vents ect to draw more air through the full sized intercooler.?

[Jock The Rock]

if you are after performance turner engineering in the uk does ported and flow tested heads for 500 pounds giving between 7 and 10 hp more but im not sure if it is a new head. Also have you thought about hood vents ect to draw more air through the full sized intercooler.?

Hey mate

I have fitted one of them didn't really notice any difference in power although it did rev out a bit longer

I didn't end up fitting that intercooler, I still have to attack the situation with the cooling system

I plan on a big front mount and perhaps larger radiatior or a water to air setup

[zuno555]

Hey Jock,

Finally fitted Diesel Gas to my tractor (camo disco :))

God its good, loving it, makes a massive difference cruising on freeways and hills!

Thanks again for answering all my q's way back, was a big help and deciding factor getting me to go ahead with it.

Cheers!

Thinking of doing a water IC as well similar to budley's setup (water ic (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/116321-defender-300tdi-water-air-intercooler.html))

Don't think I will go the vnt route (already blown my budget on this build :D), although never say never!

[Jock The Rock]

No worries mate

Glad to here your happy with it

What size exhaust are you running?

[zuno555]

I have the standard pipes but with no muffler or res, its just straight out.

I don't mind the noise at all, the diesel, the muddies and exhaust are all pretty loud but its still quite ok for cruising. I would imagine the sound proofing is better in discos to defs.

I was thinking of going 3" but with a res at the back one day.

[Jock The Rock]

I have the standard pipes but with no muffler or res, its just straight out.

I don't mind the noise at all, the diesel, the muddies and exhaust are all pretty loud but its still quite ok for cruising. I would imagine the sound proofing is better in discos to defs.

I was thinking of going 3" but with a res at the back one day.

I recommend a larger exhaust, it opens up the rev range

I wouldn't recommend 3 inch. They sound absolutely horrible, I have a 3 straight through mufflers in at the moment and it has made little difference. I've spoken to a few people and the seem to think a 2.5 mandrel bent will do the job just fine

[Jock The Rock]

I had the front quarter panel off a while back. While I was at it, I decided to replumb the air intake from the base of the snorkel through to the air cleaner.

I went to the wreckers when I was in SA last year and bought myself a main intake hose from a 300 Tdi Defender. I used this and some 3 inch stainless mandrel bends and some straight 3 inch to do the plumbing.

The open hose is where the breather would normally enter the air intake. It now works really well as a route for any wires going to the roof rack

I didn't notice a huge difference in power, but from memory I gained about half a psi with the turbo :p

In the photos you can see the size difference between old and new

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/671.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/672.jpg

[Casper]

Would it be possible that the temp and lack of high end problem both be due to it running too lean on fuel.

I can't recall with diesels how it goes with lean mixtures, I know it burns faster so by rights will give you less power but should be cooler EGT's but may cause hotter base engine temps.

Start playing with the pump, and see what happens before stuffing about too much more as you may not need to do much to the radiator.

Also will the bigger intercooler do much for you until you get the higher boost pressures?

Cheers Casper

[bee utey]

Would it be possible that the temp and lack of high end problem both be due to it running too lean on fuel.

I can't recall with diesels how it goes with lean mixtures, I know it burns faster so by rights will give you less power but should be cooler EGT's but may cause hotter base engine temps.




Diesel 101: They always run lean until black smoke appears. Most diesels don't have any intake throttling. Excess air aids cooling. Over rich mixtures are the ones that cause heat problems.

[Jock The Rock]

I actually de tuned it the other day

I used to drive it with the pyro ie, backing off on the loud pedal when it got close to 700 degrees

After numerous runs up the outlet I got it to hold a bit over 700 the whole way up. It took a full reverse turn of the screw to get it down that far :p

Interesting part is it goes just as well

So if anything I think it may have been overfuelled

[airbagUA]

Hello! In a first of all, I want to thank Jock personally and all aulro.com! I am from Ukraine (its not very big country between Russia and Poland).

I am very interested to install VNT Turbo on my 1996 Disco 300 TDI (no EGR, mechanical IP Bosch VE), but not able to buy complete kit. (About 2000$ + shipping + hi Ukrainian customs -quite expensive for me.)

So we have an idea buy used GT2256v from the MB Sprinter 416 2,7 OM612 Engine, Iveco Daily III 2.8 engine 8140.43K or BMW 330D 3.0 M57 engine,
rebuild it on local turbo service and install it by my self...



In the case of these particular VNT turbos, the actuator uses boost pressure - the majority of VNT turbos use vacuum or compressed air controlled by computer.



The question is - how to control VNT mechanism and non electronical fuel pump together, on a turbine from electronnicaly controlled car or van?

In case Allard kit, for example, we just put together hose from VNT actuator, from the compressor housing of a turbo and from head of Injection Pump?

Im very SORRY for my bad english :)

[Bush65]

Hello! In a first of all, I want to thank Jock personally and all aulro.com! I am from Ukraine (its not very big country between Russia and Poland).

I am very interested to install VNT Turbo on my 1996 Disco 300 TDI (no EGR, mechanical IP Bosch VE), but not able to buy complete kit. (About 2000$ + shipping + hi Ukrainian customs -quite expensive for me.)

So we have an idea buy used GT2256v from the MB Sprinter 416 2,7 OM612 Engine, Iveco Daily III 2.8 engine 8140.43K or BMW 330D 3.0 M57 engine,
rebuild it on local turbo service and install it by my self...



The question is - how to control VNT mechanism and non electronical fuel pump together, on a turbine from electronnicaly controlled car or van?

In case Allard kit, for example, we just put together hose from VNT actuator, from the compressor housing of a turbo and from head of Injection Pump?

Im very SORRY for my bad english :)
Sorry I don't know how your proposed VNT actuator is configured. The one Jock used and what was used on the 2.8 litre upgraded 300 Tdi from Brazil have a boost pressure actuator. Most VNT turbos from vehicles with engine computers have a vacuum actuator.

There is a method of controlling the vacuum actuator using a version of a "Dawes Valve" which was developed for the VW engine with VNT turbo (http://www.3barracing.com/product_8.htm). These are available from 3 Bar Racing. I'll see if I can find a link to web page where someone has detailed the method for a Nissan Patrol - or someone else may be able to find it quicker than me.

From memory a vacuum line is connected to the VNT actuator and boost pressure is tee'd into the vacuum line through the Dawes valve to modulate the vacuum signal - but my memory needs to be checked.

What ever you do, the pressure line to the boost compensator on the fuel injection pump has to be connected to some point where there is boost pressure. This could be the outlet from the turbo's compressor, or the inlet manifold. The compensator on the injection pump reduces or increases fuel injected depending on what the inlet manifold pressure is (ie. boost pressure).

Hope this is understandable and helps.

[airbagUA]

Thank you John! You're help a lot! This "Dawes valave" like a magic wand for me :) But while I do not quite understand how it works.
- Is it possible to buy only the vacuum actuator and install it on a pressure controlled turbine? Maybe you or anyone heard anything about it?
- Another question in both cases the pump is the same, or they too have the difference in the management of vacuum or pressure?

Thanks again and sorry for 156 questions!

[slug_burner]

You can always pull the vacuum actuator off and replace it with a pressure actuator.

I suspect that if you were to drill a hole and braze a tube on the other side of the diaphragm on the vacuum actuator you would then convert it to a pressure actuator. You would just have to watch out how much of a leak you would have where the controlling rod leaves the actuator canister.

[airbagUA]

But that's another problem! I found a topic on our forum dedicated to the identification of the actuator from the HS2.8 turbo. Link (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/80495-boost-actuator-hs2-8-part-number.html). It appears incredibly difficult to find ;(

All that we know about it: (thanks to Bush 65)

AFAIK, Garrett don't list any part numbers for any components against any of their VNT turbos.

Edit: the only markings on the boost actuator are "WAHLER" (looks like manufacturer of actuator), then at 180 deg from name is stamped "2/2" and at 270 deg from name is stamped "S 16/2".

Hope that helps.

[Bush65]

...

There is a method of controlling the vacuum actuator using a version of a "Dawes Valve" which was developed for the VW engine with VNT turbo (http://www.3barracing.com/product_8.htm). These are available from 3 Bar Racing. I'll see if I can find a link to web page where someone has detailed the method for a Nissan Patrol - or someone else may be able to find it quicker than me.

From memory a vacuum line is connected to the VNT actuator and boost pressure is tee'd into the vacuum line through the Dawes valve to modulate the vacuum signal - but my memory needs to be checked.

...
Here is a link that shows the method I spoke of (http://www.chaz.yellowfoot.org/Manual%20Boost%20Controller.htm). If anything there is different to what I stated, please ignore what I have said as I was relying on my memory.

[Bush65]

Thank you John! You're help a lot! This "Dawes valave" like a magic wand for me :) But while I do not quite understand how it works.
- Is it possible to buy only the vacuum actuator and install it on a pressure controlled turbine? Maybe you or anyone heard anything about it?
- Another question in both cases the pump is the same, or they too have the difference in the management of vacuum or pressure?

Thanks again and sorry for 156 questions!
Nothing special about Dawes valves. They are a simple form of adjustable pressure relief valve. An internal spring holds a ball against a seat to prevent flow until the pressure rises enough to force the ball off its seat against the spring force. First used to prevent boost pressure to the actuator of normal waste gates on turbos. The version for VNT turbos is modified slightly and was originally developed to reduce the pressure spikes that were breaking shafts in the small VNT turbos on modified VW diesel engines.

I would expect the VNT turbo to have a vacuum actuator fitted when you buy it - most VNT turbos have a vacuum actuator, very rare to find one from another vehicle with a boost pressure actuator.

Your injection pump will work just the same and no change is required, other than the line to the boost compensator, should not be tee'd into the line to a vacuum actuator on a VNT turbo - the line must have boost pressure from the compressor outlet or inlet manifold.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/487.jpg

In this diagram, blue line is vacuum, red is boost pressure.

You have a vacuum pump on your engine for the brake booster - tee into this but use a small orifice (damper on the diagram) to restrict the flow. To make the orifice, solder up the hole in a fitting then drill a very small hole (say 1mm or smaller).

The boost pressure is taken from the compressor. The boost pressure gauge is teed into the line, you could also tee into this line for the boost compensator on the injection pump.

[airbagUA]

Thanks! This picture just blow my mind ) I need time to think. I am very grateful for the help!

[Bush65]

... I would expect the VNT turbo to have a vacuum actuator fitted when you buy it - most VNT turbos have a vacuum actuator ...
While vacuum actuators were used instead of boost pressure actuators for controlling VNT turbos for many years, it has been bought to my attention that the current trend is for electrical control (stepper motor or other form of servo motor).

It would depend on how the motor was linked to the vane mechanism as to how easy/difficult it would be to replace it with another actuator.


...You have a vacuum pump on your engine for the brake booster ...
An alternative to teeing into the vacuum pump for the braking system, a small electric vacuum pump could be dedicated to the turbo. These come up on ebay from vehicles that use them for cruise control systems, etc.

[airbagUA]

While vacuum actuators were used instead of boost pressure actuators for controlling VNT turbos for many years, it has been bought to my attention that the current trend is for electrical control (stepper motor or other form of servo motor).

It would depend on how the motor was linked to the vane mechanism as to how easy/difficult it would be to replace it with another actuator.


An alternative to teeing into the vacuum pump for the braking system, a small electric vacuum pump could be dedicated to the turbo. These come up on ebay from vehicles that use them for cruise control systems, etc.

The way you suggested earlier - in my opinion, the most elegant. It is easy to perform, not expensive, has two adjustments. I read reviews from Nissan owners forum - everyone is happy! So, I have no doubt how to act :)

[sean96disco]

HI all,

sorry o dig up an old thread, but i wanted to know how you guys with these turbos are going now that you have had them a while.

I am curious about the reliability (more things to break really) of these turbos as I travel remotely!

Cheers

Sean
:)

[Michele]

Mine's still in one piece, FWIW...
:)

[Disco_owner]

Hi Jock.
I've just rejoined the forum and I'm very interested to know if you still have the vehicle and what are your thoughts on the M&D Engineering VNT Turbo Setup so far.

Is it worth the upgrade?

I'm looking at their Kit #32 for my Discovery 1.

Khosrow