Sand driving in a D3, what am I doing wrong?

[Nomad9]

Hi Forumites,
Yesterday I did a beach run with the local 4WD club, Lancelin to Cervantes, beautiful day, bit windy. The sand as I entered the beach was soft, not far in front there was a Rav four bogged to the sills at about 45 degrees to the beach to give you the picture.
Me I was on my 265 60 18's with about 15 psi in them, Cooper HT plus is the brand, so I'm in sand driving mode the one with the cactus on it, I had disengaged the DSC and I was on the high suspension setting. After one vehicle had gone through it was doing a bit of a sand crab act but it got through. I then followed, slipping into the same ruts as you would expect, this was a pretty narrow stretch of beach. Everything was going fine, I then accelerated to get more momentum, the over 40 klms "bong" started so I took off slightly to maintain the height, at some point something changed I wasn't sure what but the power seemed to drop off completed until I was at a point of extreme "stuckness". This is my first time driving the D3 on sand, it was very soft and at the waters edge where I ended up it was like quicksand. The over extend on the suspension kicked in but only seemed to raise the two rear wheels, is this normal (not that it mattered at this point)?
So I'm open to comments, what did I do wrong here? It's got to be me here not the vehicle I'll assume. In my old Rangie it was just a case of put your foot into it and things normally turned out ok.................... we'll see what you have to say. :confused:

[Nomad9]

Hi Forumites,
The attached thumbnail doesn't seem to reflect the real angle of the beach, looks are pretty sedate, the angle where my D3 ended up was pretty ugly, the sand was up past the door on my wifes side she couldn't get out.....

[seano87]

... This is my first time driving the D3 on sand, it was very soft and at the waters edge where I ended up it was like quicksand. The over extend on the suspension kicked in but only seemed to raise the two rear wheels, is this normal (not that it mattered at this point)?
So I'm open to comments, what did I do wrong here? It's got to be me here not the vehicle I'll assume. In my old Rangie it was just a case of put your foot into it and things normally turned out ok.................... we'll see what you have to say. :confused:

I think you may have answered your own question already, and looking at the picture, it is clear you were driving on sand was recently quite wet from the tide and probably super-saturated just below the surface, i.e. not unlike quicksand. The vehicle that went through before you would have exposed the super wet sand and messed it up, they are just lucky they went first otherwise it may have been the other way round.

Why would you drive that close to the water anyway when you saw how messed up it was when there is probably ~50m of more dry sand further up the beach? Do you really want salty wet sand flicking up under the vehicle when it could be avoided? :confused:

[cal415]

18s and sand driving arnt a good combination, been there done that, the difference between 18s and 16s in the same vehicle (my old d2) and same diameter was huge... also at 15psi if your still not going to well try going a little lower but i would keep it above 12psi, with 18s you dont have alot of side wall before the rims riding on the ground. I once had to lower my 18s down to 8psi to get out of a bad spot, but once out aired them back up to 12, but that also comes down to the tyres and how they sit at the lower pressures.

With the lower profile tyres i find you really have to think about throttle control, to much will just sink you in, to little and you dont get the momentum needed, in my prado on 17s i really have to think about it in the soft stuff, with my county on 37x12.5s all i haev to do is drive :)

As for the spot you go stuck, slight side angle is never a good thing in soft sand you start to cut sideways and that just sucks up all your power and momentum.

[cal415]

Wet sand is usually alot easier to drive on, even in the soft stuff with a bit of rain on top it usualy firms things up a bit, the real issue in that spot in the side angle, even a slight angle like that you need lots of momentum.

[discojools]

Hi Nomad9.
Here are a couple of rules re D3 in sand:
If you have DSC off and then turn the car off and then on again you have to reset DSC off.
The bong will bong at 40 kph but the car will not go back to normal height until you get up to 50kph. In other words you can go up to 50 kph in offroad height, certainly thats what I have found in my 05 model.
It may be that if you had gone first then the other vehicle may have got stuck.
I don't know why you lost power, it may have been re my first point re DSC or you may have been completely bellied out in which case the little bit of Traction Control (there is still some even with DSC off) may have kicked in.
I found on my Simpson Desert trip that it was much better to have the gearbox in Command Shift so that it will not change up a gear. I noticed that in auto mode if I lifted off going up a dune the gearbox change into a higher gear, the turbo was off boost and momentum was lost. If you lift off in Command Shift the gearbox stays in the same gear.
I have to say that sand is not one of D3's strong points but for it makes up for it everywhere else.
Hope this helps.

Discojools

[Nomad9]

Hi Sean,
Sometimes you have to go where the vehicle wants to go you don't have much say in the matter. I'm not Jeremy Clarkson I don't intentionally drive through salty water. I gave up "driving it like I stole it" maybe fifteen years ago. The beach was pretty chopped up from a lot of previous attempts by others. I had the front wheels in one set of ruts and the rear wheels in another set, a previous attempt by someone else had put a line connecting the two sets. When I wanted more grunt there was any left, so I got "stucked", and as mentioned by others who clearly have experience driving on 18's in quicksand I'm not alone.
The vehicle is my pride and joy sometimes things happen and there isn't much you can do to avoid an outcome. This was my first time out on soft sand in my D3 so this was a pretty steep learning curve, yes I put a certain amount of driver error, considering all things I would say quite a lot. Driving with terrain response is like learning to drive a four wheel drive all over again, driving four different vehicles with different characteristics, I find drive by wire quite different.
I was looking for some experiences from D3 drivers who've encountered similar issues which is now what I've done, this forum has been a great help as usual.

[scarry]

Interesting.........

So my guess is the D4 is gonna be worse in sand,heavy ,& 19's:(& no 17' option,unless you go the 2.7TD & 5 seats.

We do a lot of holiday trips to Moreton is,where the sand at times, is very soft,and as Nomad9 says,in an old RR,or for me in the D2 with 16's,its just plant it & drive it,usually no worries at all.
I once saw a D2 over there on 18's & it was doing it very difficult in the soft sand.In fact this vehicle did it a lot harder getting onto the barge than a few soft roaders,almost didn't make it & had to be towed on.The tyre pressures were 12PSI.My D2 went through with tyres on 18Psi,easily.Both vehicles had CDL's,& were loaded.

Sure,the other aspects of the D3/D4 make up for this downfall,but it is still an issue for us beach goers.

Can't help you with the D3 on sand,have driven one on the black top & it was fantastic.
We all live & learn,so good luck next time.

[gghaggis]

That part of the beach is notorious for bogging vehicles. On some occasions we've had to air down to 9psi to get through. 'Command shift' would have helped, however, if your front wheels were in a set of ruts higher up the beach than the rear ones, you'd have no chance - that part of the beach is too soft to recover from that situation.

In hindsight you should have stopped asap and reversed and tried to drive with all 4 wheels in the same ruts. But sometimes that's easier said than done!

For those of you with 18" or 20" rims who want to do a fair bit of sand-driving, I'd suggest fitting internal beadlocks (SecondAir or Staun). That way you can air down to 8 psi or less without any dramas.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Blknight.aus]

what youve just encountered is a phenomenon known as surface liquifaction. very vaguely what happens is the first vehicle person/object/pressure application and release squeezes the sand and dislodges some of the water thats held within, this process shifts the sand and opens up "passages" for water to come back in raising the water content.

Once this happens theres less friction between the grains of sand so the next time a vehicle passes over or pressure is applied and released it happens again and even more water is let in. In most places you can get 2 vehicles through and the 3rd cops a bogging, if the tides high theres more upwards "pressure" from the water and you might only get one.

ITs a very similar phenomenon to "breaking the crust" that forms on the surface of a flood plain. Once your through the water wells up from the weight of the vehicle pressing down on the surface which then disolves the surface from a hardpack to wet clay and the rest is a case of "recover quickly or loose the vehicle".

the alloy rims have a bead retainer built into them and you can go down to 8 psi providing you dont get stupid with the steering or noise. Be warned at that pressure youre more at risk of "cutting" or "folding" the side wall and tread face with the edge of the bead.

[WhiteD3]

........... at some point something changed I wasn't sure what but the power seemed to drop off completed until I was at a point of extreme "stuckness".

Sounds like the DSC to me, no offence. Were you in drive or manual? I'm not what I'd call an experienced sand driver but I've done a bit. In soft sand I drive in manual as I find auto doesn't cope too well.

Keep in mind to, soft sand + 3000kg of D3 + loss of momentum = bogged:angel:

[Nomad9]

Hi There,
No offence taken, I was in auto and I did switch the engine off at one point during the heat of battle, I don't think I reset the DSC to off, this could well have also been a factor. I was in auto not manual, I did contemplate the shift to manual but at that point the only thing that was going to get me out was a snatch strap. Reading the manual after the event of course, the manual does say you could give the mud / ruts program a go if the sand one doesn't work, that's all well and good as long as you have a second chance!!!
So all in all a great response from all, all helpful stuff very constructive. Thanks very much.

[3.9County]

I had the same experiences at the Fitzgerald River National Park with a Discovery 3.

Crawled over some rubber mats to enter Triglow Beach, set the vehicles automatic terrain system, let down the high profile tyres:D, within about 3 mins we were stuck. :(

I think I had managed to travel about 25 meters through soft powdery sand fully laidened with the tyre pressures down to 10psi. after a few interesting photos and 9 hours later!

Usually in my 85 County I would be able to just back up and make the same pass with a little more momentum.

I found the Disco 3 I couldnt manage to reverse through sand without wanting to dig itself down even further, this was pretty worrying to me as the vehicle had just been purchased 2 months ago.

After that ordeal, I was stuck once again in Walpole but this time was able to be pulled out be the local sea rescue in his tractor :D.

The disco's are an extremly heavy vehicle especially with the ballasting weights around the vehicle. Id like to thing the weight of the vehicle especially laidened, and wrong tyres in soft sand will bog any vehicle.

In soft powdery sand i now always take the County.

[justinc]

Also a major contributor here is the weight of the vehicle; some 500Kg heavier than a RRC, this is a huge problem with most large offroad vehicles nowdays, the shear bulk of them is a big hindrance.

It is a testament to LR engineers to get these D3's and RRS etc as good as they are off road, AND on road, as they are no lightweight.

JC
(Edit; just saw the weight issue covered in above post :) , so x2 from me then!)

[cal415]

what youve just encountered is a phenomenon known as surface liquifaction. very vaguely what happens is the first vehicle person/object/pressure application and release squeezes the sand and dislodges some of the water thats held within, this process shifts the sand and opens up "passages" for water to come back in raising the water content.

Once this happens theres less friction between the grains of sand so the next time a vehicle passes over or pressure is applied and released it happens again and even more water is let in. In most places you can get 2 vehicles through and the 3rd cops a bogging, if the tides high theres more upwards "pressure" from the water and you might only get one
ITs a very similar phenomenon to "breaking the crust" that forms on the surface of a flood plain. Once your through the water wells up from the weight of the vehicle pressing down on the surface which then disolves the surface from a hardpack to wet clay and the rest is a case of "recover quickly or loose the vehicle".

the alloy rims have a bead retainer built into them and you can go down to 8 psi providing you dont get stupid with the steering or noise. Be warned at that pressure youre more at risk of "cutting" or "folding" the side wall and tread face with the edge of the bead.

This sounds very similar to the experiences I've had with quick sand, but looking at the pic this wouldn't be the case. Areas of sand I've found that liquify are usualy on flat hard packed damp areas usualy level with the water table or next to a source if water at almost the same level he was to high up the dune for this I think and the sand while it's wet it's still not damp enough also with the quicksand I've found it tends to fill in your track for the next poor unsuspecting 4wd to find... It just melts back in and levels out it's pretty cool, I've got some video somewhere I will post..

As for reversing out, it wouldn't work because of the side slope and the car would just drift down towards the water further and sink deeper in... It looks like the sand had been cut up by the first vehicle just making it loose and boggy. Unless you could have drive down the side slope to flat ground snatching would have been the only way out, tho it could have been avoided but you have to learn your new 4x4, every one is different, going from the v8 county to the gutless deisel prado was a learning experience for me! :)

[djambalawa]

Sounds like the DSC to me, no offence. Were you in drive or manual? I'm not what I'd call an experienced sand driver but I've done a bit. In soft sand I drive in manual as I find auto doesn't cope too well.

Keep in mind to, soft sand + 3000kg of D3 + loss of momentum = bogged:angel:

It does sound like DSC to me too... when you mention an apparent loss of power... did you hold in the button until the DSC off light comes on? I'm quite happy with mine in sand as long as DSC is off... and I've got 18" wheels too that wouldn't be the best...

[Blknight.aus]

This sounds very similar to the experiences I've had with quick sand, but looking at the pic this wouldn't be the case. Areas of sand I've found that liquify are usualy on flat hard packed damp areas usualy level with the water table or next to a source if water at almost the same level he was to high up the dune for this I think and the sand while it's wet it's still not damp enough also with the quicksand I've found it tends to fill in your track for the next poor unsuspecting 4wd to find... It just melts back in and levels out it's pretty cool, I've got some video somewhere I will post..

As for reversing out, it wouldn't work because of the side slope and the car would just drift down towards the water further and sink deeper in... It looks like the sand had been cut up by the first vehicle just making it loose and boggy. Unless you could have drive down the side slope to flat ground snatching would have been the only way out, tho it could have been avoided but you have to learn your new 4x4, every one is different, going from the v8 county to the gutless deisel prado was a learning experience for me! :)

you'd be surprised how little water it actually takes for it to happen. you dont have to have surface water.

If the supporting soil under neath the layer your driving on gives way theres nothing to support the patch you are driving on and it sinks. about 5k south of a place called windy harbour there was a great spot for it at high tide, its a slight depression in the lay of the beach and if you were the 4th vehicle along in the line and doing less than about 30KpH youd just sink like a stone to the chassis in fine dry white sand.

once snatched out all thered be to show for it was 4 holes in the sand shaped like funnels in the middle of the wheel tracks. Great for the locals for a laugh on the city blokes who didnt know better.

[Nomad9]

Hi Blknight,
Great info, I definately didn't leave four hardly identifiable funnel flutes, the beach looked like something after the Normandy landing, being a little bit worse after I'd had my go. The vehicle to me is a technical marvel, I just have to learn how to drive it in these conditions or not get to this point in the first place. In hindsight which is a marvellous thing I should have maybe pulled up a lot earlier and had another run, I had travelled maybe 300 to 400 meters and i was still moving, it was the engine dying that was my undoing, I suspect that the DSC hadn't been deativated after my intial problem when I stopped and restarted the engine again. Having a cable connected to the throttle is a good thing on a lot of occasions, in my opinion, relying on a computer to tell me where the throttle should be I find a little disconcerting.
Thanks again for the info makes my decisions about driving into this stuff a little bit more, lets say, educated.

[Tote]

+1 for the manual mode, I've found that the vehicle is more controllable in manual mode, you can still stall it in sand though if you pick the wrong gear.

Regards
Tote

[djhampson]

Were you in low range?

I personally find that switching DSC off in low range doesn't have the same effect that it does when high range.

I find that low range, sand mode and commandshift in 1 or 2 is the best for getting thru very soft sand.

I was going across the Freshwater Rd beach crossing at Double Island Pt 2 weeks ago. The temp was in the 30s and the sand was so hot you couldn't walk over it. So it was completely dry and very soft.

I had to recover another vehicle that had gotten stuck and to get moving I needed a little push from behind from some mates and 2 snatch straps to give me enough time to gain momentum.

[Hastykiwi]

I would agree with Graham here. That beach is bog city. The higher part of the beach is flatter and dry and the offshore wind blows across and tends to clean it off down to hard sand, (there are still sheltered soft areas here though), the steeper part you were on stays sheltered and has a much looser pack, plus it gets wet.

At New Years up that way, there was a particular section like this where despite the fact that the top of the beach in dry was bad enough, vehicles continued to try the steep part. It didn't matter what you were driving, (except maybe the little suzukis) with the steepness there was always a loss of momentum sideways, and bogness followed.

One thing that did seem to work for a friend in a D2 with standard size AT's on was when he tried to get going again, a small amount of throttle got him moving ever so slowly, but as soon as he floored it, it just dug in. So 1st low, and just crawled feathering the throttle until momentum gradually built to the point where he could get back on top of the sand.

cheers
Nick

[FifiLámour]

Far out! This thread is very intimidating! We are supposed to be going sand-driving next weekend for the first time ever. How on earth are we going to remember all of this? You guys have me very scared now!

Will have to print this thread and take it with me :o.

[rmp]

Sand driving is not that hard in a D3. Sand mode, DSC off, air down to 20psi, often using manual command shift rather than auto. Take a spade, flat plate for the jack and use controlled momentum to get up over the dunes. A set of Maxtrax is no bad investment either.

I also agree Defenders are better than D3s on sand as they are lighter and you can get the tyres down further, easily 15psi with no drama. D4 owners with 19" rims...good luck in the really soft stuff. You'll need all your 180kw of power ;-)

[clean32]

One thing that did seem to work for a friend in a D2 with standard size AT's on was when he tried to get going again, a small amount of throttle got him moving ever so slowly, but as soon as he floored it, it just dug in. So 1st low, and just crawled feathering the throttle until momentum gradually built to the point where he could get back on top of the sand.

cheers
Nick

Do that in the county, low low and just idle out.

There is a BW ww2 movie where they take an ambulance though the desert. to get up a large sand dune they took the plugs out and wound her up on the starter crank. Tried that when i was a kid on a s2 hard work but it works.

i always take a bucket, 20 liters in front of each front wheel can do wonders

[rmp]

That low-low technique can and does work for all vehicles.

Take a bucket for 20l? Just empty a passenger or two in front of the tyres ;-)

[WhiteD3]

Far out! This thread is very intimidating! We are supposed to be going sand-driving next weekend for the first time ever. How on earth are we going to remember all of this? You guys have me very scared now!

Will have to print this thread and take it with me :o.

Fifi, the main thing you have to remember in the D3 is to turn off the DSC and keep it OFF when on sand. Every time you turn off the car or twist the TR knob it will reset back to ON.

[FifiLámour]

OK, stopped hyperventilating now. The paper bag and your posts have helped. Thanks boys (where is that *hugs* emoticon?).

Edited to add: That was MobyDisco I was talking about *snicker*.

[discojools]

The BW WW2 movie with the low low range crankhandle was "Ice Cold in Alex"
with John Mills.. One of my favourite movies. Have look if you can find it. I think the ambulance was a Humber 4wd truck but not sure. I'm sure it was petrol.
Be hard to to crank a diesel wouldn't it?

[Nomad9]

Hi There Fifi,
The object wasn't intimidation, this was my first trip out on soft sand with my D3, usually going from vehicle to vehicle in the past has been relativly straight forward swap, taking the D3 out was different. You have some of the decisions you usually make taken away be a computer.
My biggest issue was the engine dying when I wanted it to go, had the engine surged into action I could well have got out of the predicament I was heading into. What I suspect may of happed when things started to go wrong I think I pressed the reversing sensor switch than the DSC button, had I checked that I had switched the DSC switch things migt well have been different.
The manual gear selection option wasn't something I considered at the time, in future I will. I was with a group, I'd let my tyres down, maybe in hindsight and experience of others not far enough. I'd only had the tyres on a couple of days I didn't want to let them down to far for fear of turning them off the rims, they tend to come off easier when they are new or have been recently repaired. Staun beadlockers are an option here, not sure about this one but they are an option.
So make sure your got a snatch strap, access to your recovery points, if you have a front bull bar this is easy the attachment point is a tad more hidden with a standard bumper bar.
I'm sure you'll have a great time the vehicle is awesome, an electronic marvel. Just get out there and enjoy yourself, once you've done it thats experience and that's invaluable. Enjoy

[clean32]

i think some thing like this is madatory for all D3 and D4 drivers

I.T. Qualifications (http://www.computerpower.ac.nz/Students?gclid=CMKS8fOiw58CFUwwpAodiUEdIQ)

me? well ill just stick to my county



well i have to stick to my county doint have the pingers for any thing else LOL

[stevo68]

Can always strike it down to being off road as well......things happen. Not sure about all this babble about 18/19 inch tyres etc......I had both on my D3. The only time I got my bogged was when it was 2 weeks old....knew SFA about 4WDing, had DSC, High Range, fully pumped up tyres and this happened:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/09/727.jpg

Got snatched out...eventually......got bogged again 20 metres down beach. Bloke in a Cruiser came along, aired down my tyres, told me to put into low range, switched off DSC and out she popped.

Since then I have done countless km's on all sorts of sand surfaces and nary a worry. Driven with 19 inch rims and HP's then 18 inch rims and Grabbers....no wuckers. Also now driven my D2 on sand as well...much a muchness and that has 16 inch rims diesel ( D3 was V8). Main thing is momentum....and powering through when required plus I always had mine in low range.

Yes having DSC is important.....otherwise going off road sometimes you get bogged.....though in my case I was a certainty first time :eek:, learnt my lesson that day....almost had a $105k fishbowl :o,

Regards

Stevo

[rmp]

That looks familiar, rescued more than one car from that situation.

If any D3 owner needs to recover their car from that sort of predicament you can often do so fairly easily with no assistance. This is how:

1. Drive where you need to at normal sand pressures, eg 18, 15psi depending on conditions, weight, tyres. Sand mode on, DSC off, either low or high range depending on speed.

2. If you get into the sort of situation described by Stevo you will know because the vehicle will slow down despite increased throttle application, and the wheels will begin to spin. If this happens, STOP IMMEDIATELY before it is too late.

3. If you've done the above the vehicle will be immobilised, but not sunk to the chassis.

4. Attempt, very slowly and carefully, to back out with nil wheelspin. It's unlikely you'll make it if you need to reverse on the level or uphill, but maybe if you were heading slightly uphill when you stopped.

5. Assuming the above fails, get everyone out of the car and anything heavy.

6. Let the tyres down to 10psi (yes, TEN) and at the same time dig a ramp under each wheel, almost down underneath the tyre, and as shallow as you can so the wheels don't need to climb up a steep ramp.

7. Put a block of wood or something under the D3's chassis, get back in the D3, close all the doors, lower it from Offroad Height. It'll hit the wood and go into Extended mode. Once there, hold your foot on the brake and press the height toggle up for 3 secs to get into Super Extended. Engage low range.

8. Very, very, slowly, back it out. It's amazing what a difference 15 to 10 psi makes. Do not exceed a very slow crawl speed. Absolute minimum throttle.

9. Once out reinflate your tyres to 15-20psi and lower the car back to Offroad.

This process is in my experience quicker, safer and more effective than snatching and I have no doubt it would have worked for Stevo.

If the car doesn't make it out and starts to slip stop immediately, reduce by another 2psi to no lower than 8, and dig it out more. I've not yet failed to recover a car by this method and I've done a few. The problem with snatch recoveries on beaches is the extreme forces and getting another car safely and effectively in position.

If the car is at an angle on the beach the recovery is the same but much more difficult. Dig trenches to stop the car slipping sideways, and it may work to go straight parallel to the waves to get a little momentum before turning up the beach. At 10psi you need to be slow and careful. Take your time and it'll work.

[chuck]

Yes I agree.

My first day out & I got bogged on a relatively easy slope at Toolangi.

Did not really know about DSC, using terrain response & placing it in manual mode etc.

Now I have been out with other D3's & 4's I am confident that the car has more ability than my D2 which had a few modifications.

Whether my nerve will hold out is another manner.

RMP on this forum has organised a few D3/4 specific trips out of Melbourne which have been an invaluable source of knowledge for these specific cars.

Regards

Chuck

[Jesse B]

Mighty fine information, all of this - very interesting, and useful indeed. Especially the 9 point process so clearly set out above (thanks Robert!). I just hope I'm not the first one to find out what extra challenges are faced when lugging the D4's added beef on its danged 19" wheels into this kind of scenario! I'm already glad I bought those as-yet-unused Maxtrax.

Question for you RMP, or others - much discussion about lowering tyre pressures, but on 19's I think we're a bit more limited, with the profile and so on. I've read that the initial lower for sand (on 19s) should be to 20 psi - would that mean that it may be wise to only go down to say 12 or so for the escape, instead of the 10 you mention? Or does the profile issue not really matter in this very short term brief usage situation? And any thoughts about the initial 20 psi setting for general sand use? We're talking 255/55 x 19's here - Pirelli Scorpions in my case. We're probably going over ground covered in many threads and stickies elsewhere, but it may be useful here too, given the readership of this one.

[rmp]

No, you can go to 10 to escape on 19s or 20s. The rim will be touching the sand, but go really slow and it can be done. My testing indicates that for a given pressure the higher profile tyres have less contact area (less flotation, sink in more) and the rim is closer to the ground, hence the recommendation for smaller rims. But, larger rims can work.

The correct sand pressure is situation-dependent. For example recently in the Wyperfeld and Murray Sunset I used 28 as there was little sand and it wasn't very deep. In Robe, deeper and softer, I was down to 15 on my D3. The lower the pressure the slower you go and the more gentle the car movement. Keep reducing until you are able to progress, but as a guide I would not go any lower than about 2psi less than the rim size for "normal" sand driving for a D3 (eg for 17s 15psi). That rule would not apply to other cars with other rim sizes. There comes a point when you cannot lower any further and need to rely on momentum only, and that takes some knowledge and skill, and increases the risk of the tyre parting company with the rim. Not a big deal to fix if you have the tools, but a nuisance nevertheless. Remember if you tow in sand the camper trailer can usually go down to 10 with no drama, I pulled a camper through Googs like that without any issues.

[clean32]

but as a guide I would not go any lower than about 2psi less than the rim size for "normal" sand driving .

thats a good rule of thum

first time i whent though robe i ran at 28 no probs

[series3]

thats a good rule of thum

first time i whent though robe i ran at 28 no probs

In a D3?

[Guss]

Thanks RMP, looks like I'm in the market for an air compressor...

It's good to see that I'm far from being the only one to get stuck in the sand, I was towed out but will give your advice a go next time (and there will be a next time:)) I think plastic tracks would also be helpful in this situation but were do you store them?

Also, I didn't need a block of wood to get the extended height, right or wrong, I just selected access height which made the belly touch the ground and trigger extended height.

Good read

[rmp]

A good compressor is a must for sand driving, as your pressures are so low it is difficult to drive safely to the nearest servo to air up. Many D3 owners run ARB's compressor mounted in the space ahead of the main battery.

I store my Maxtrax on my roofrack, along with my sand flag. They also fit behind the second row attached to the cargo barrier.

Yes if you are nearly bellied out anyway you won't need the wood, and access can work, but the idea is to stop as soon as you realise it's going to happen. This is a skill learned over time and why you will see experienced sand drivers apparently giving up too early, they've recognised the signs.

[DiscoSaffa]

Hi All

Having just moved to the NSW North Coast, sand driving is going to feature in the future, so this thread is great, thanks!

Another question with respect to tyre choice. Ignoring the size debate for a moment, I am still running the standard 18 inch tyres on my D3 which probably still have about 5000 to 10 000k’s on them (but are well off new) and I would like to wear them out before the get replaced with a set of grabbers. The question is, how much does tread pattern affect sand performance, or is it more about flotation? :confused:

[rmp]

It's more about flotation, which translates to less rolling resistance. Worn road tyres are fine on sand, and in fact aggressive muddies are something of a disadvantage but can still work fine provided the technique and pressure are correct. However, worn tyres in general are not a good idea on or especially offroad be it dirt, rocks or mud.

[DiscoSaffa]

However, worn tyres in general are not a good idea on or especially offroad be it dirt, rocks or mud.

I agree and will avoid the serious stuff until I replace the tyres...... Just want to make sure I get my (legal) money's worth out of the current tyres..... That said working on a construction site, early replacement might well be on the cards, the tyres are taking a beating!

[Nomad9]

Discosaffa,
You're right what a thread, I didn't expect this at all, great information. From my perspective I had BFG muddies on my old Classic Rangie, power and momentum, the old 3.5 was a bit lacking in the power region but I managed, used to run around the 15 psi mark without a problem, these were only a 245 profile tyre as well, my D3 is 265. the more agressive the pattern the more power you require, that's my opinion anyway, the agressive tread digs in and moves the sand away quicker so you have to recognise your "stop I'm getting into trouble point" a lot quicker. I took my Range Rover P38 on the same trip last year, I was on pretty normal h'way tyres 265 16's and went fine. cable throttle and a fair amount of grunt (4.6 petrol), lowered the tyres to about 15 psi easy, this was floatation. H'way tyres are supposed to be better, I never had any problems with my BFG AT's on my old Patrol, one thing with the BFG muddies they do dig in a lot quicker than at's or normal H'way tyres. Hope this helps.

[DiscoSaffa]

So my highway slicks should do the trick then........ :D

I have done my fair share of offroading, but most of it inland in Southern Africa, so no sand work. To be honest I am a little intimidated by it, especially in this technical marvel we all choose to drive……. That said after reading this I am about ready to give it a go…….. Just popped out and have stocked up with a compressor, and tyre deflator……. Just need the snatch strap and we are good to go

[Jesse B]

Just need the snatch strap and we are good to go

And perhaps, as RMP suggested earlier in this thoroughly excellent thread, a set of Maxtrax. I know they're kinda clunky to carry about and a bit exxy to buy, but I'm going nowhere without mine anymore.

[AnD3rew]

Just spent a week up and down Rainbow beach, double island point and inland sand tracks in my D3 with 18's Grabbers on and tyres at 20psi, sand program on and DSC off, never looked like getting stuck even once was a dream. Do have to religiously remember to turn DSC off every time you turn off the car though as that will bog you real fast.

I always carry two snatch straps with me on the beach and have my recovery point covers off, but so far in all three of my discos I have only ever used them to recover others even with my D2 ES on 19's.

[DiscoSaffa]

And perhaps, as RMP suggested earlier in this thoroughly excellent thread, a set of Maxtrax. I know they're kinda clunky to carry about and a bit exxy to buy, but I'm going nowhere without mine anymore.

Just visited their website...... :o gotta get me a set of those!!

[Jesse B]

Just visited their website...... :o gotta get me a set of those!!

I also bought the carry bag, though it was over-priced (well, I thought so at least!) - not so much for after use in sand, but more for after extracting self from the serious black mud we can get down here. Figured they'd pick up plenty of gloop, and didn't feel like just chucking 'em in the back.

[rmp]

Discosaffa,
You're right what a thread, I didn't expect this at all, great information. From my perspective I had BFG muddies on my old Classic Rangie, power and momentum, the old 3.5 was a bit lacking in the power region but I managed, used to run around the 15 psi mark without a problem, these were only a 245 profile tyre as well, my D3 is 265. the more agressive the pattern the more power you require, that's my opinion anyway, the agressive tread digs in and moves the sand away quicker so you have to recognise your "stop I'm getting into trouble point" a lot quicker. I took my Range Rover P38 on the same trip last year, I was on pretty normal h'way tyres 265 16's and went fine. cable throttle and a fair amount of grunt (4.6 petrol), lowered the tyres to about 15 psi easy, this was floatation. H'way tyres are supposed to be better, I never had any problems with my BFG AT's on my old Patrol, one thing with the BFG muddies they do dig in a lot quicker than at's or normal H'way tyres. Hope this helps.

The profile of the tyre is the second number in the spec, eg 245/70/16, where the profile is the % of the width, in that case 245. Higher-profile tyres work best on sand, eg those with profiles of 65 and above. Low-profile tyres like a 275/40/20 really struggle.

[rmp]

Another point re sand -- it's NOT all the same. Don't be driving somewhere like the Little Desert, Googs, or even Bribie then think all sand driving is the same and Stockton, Robe, Canundra, Eyre Peninsula, Cape York beaches and other places will be as easy. Just a caution for when you hear people say "xxx psi worked for me" -- it really depends on the conditions (gradient, softness etc etc), the tyres on the vehicle and weight of the vehicle, and even the time of day. For example, a lightly-loaded D3 on 17s will cruise where a heavily loaded D3 on 19s would struggle.

But nobody should be put off sand driving, it's actually very safe and a good sand drive is as much fun as you can have in a D3 (with your clothes on). The only real trouble comes if you are stuck close to an incoming tide.

Don't forget a sand flag either, I don't let anyone on my sand trips without one.

[clean32]

And perhaps, as RMP suggested earlier in this thoroughly excellent thread, a set of Maxtrax. I know they're kinda clunky to carry about and a bit exxy to buy, but I'm going nowhere without mine anymore.

personaly i think you are just better off with a role of old carpet, for sand that is. for the lumpy stuff a couple of tracks are good as long as thay are strong enough

[rmp]

personaly i think you are just better off with a role of old carpet, for sand that is. for the lumpy stuff a couple of tracks are good as long as thay are strong enough

Carpet and other soft materials don't spread the weight well enough, the wheel still sinks in and scrunches up the carpet. But carpet is better than nothing. Believe me Maxtrax or similar are worth their weight in gold if you're ever stuck with the tide approaching.

[FifiLámour]

So I'm getting a very strong impression from this thread that some kind of sand recovery track is essential when going off road on beaches.

Have just looked at the price of Maxtrax: $295 a pair + $100 for the bag. Yikes! :o Here's their picture, so we're all on the same page:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/141.jpg


How do the maxtrax compare with other brands such as the Bushranger sandtracks (at c. $150 a pair) including bag. Here is a picture of these:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/142.jpg

Would you recommended sticking with Maxtrax because they are superior in performance/reliability? Is that why they are so much more expensive? Seems to me the Maxtrax would be more cumbersome to carry...

[rmp]

Maxtrax or similar are not *required* for sand driving -- we all managed before they existed. They are however very useful for recovery. So, if you intend to do a lot of sand driving they are a bonus, and I would suggest that 4WD clubs have a set to be lent out on trips. You only need one set per convoy really. They are the best sand recovery device I have used thus far (I have tested a set literally to destruction, yes it was fun) and were top rated in a recent review of such devices. Flexible tracks like the Bushranger (or carpet) do not spread the weight as effectively.

Whilst I have no commercial interest in the device I do know the owner/designer and *may* be able to swing a bulk deal if there's interest, say 5 sets of 2.

They need to be carried on the roofrack with no bag, just ocky straps, or inside but then really in a bag as they get sandy.

[clean32]

Carpet and other soft materials don't spread the weight well enough, the wheel still sinks in and scrunches up the carpet. But carpet is better than nothing. Believe me Maxtrax or similar are worth their weight in gold if you're ever stuck with the tide approaching.

I have never used Mantrax, just carpet and my 2 X 3 meter lengths of 3X2

Carpet is also used in front of the tent, and the 2X3 timber is used to hang a tarp off the side of the county..

rolled up carpet after you have lifted the wheel and filled the hole in, works ok, if the hole is a bit bigger dump the timber over it first.

or role a bit of timber up in carpet and use it as a sand anchor etc

[rmp]

I have never used Mantrax, just carpet and my 2 X 3 meter lengths of 3X2

Carpet is also used in front of the tent, and the 2X3 timber is used to hang a tarp off the side of the county..

rolled up carpet after you have lifted the wheel and filled the hole in, works ok, if the hole is a bit bigger dump the timber over it first.

or role a bit of timber up in carpet and use it as a sand anchor etc

Yep timber and carpet works better. I made my own sand recovery devices out of wood and they were better than nothing. But even having nothing still works (refer my how to recover post above).

[Leo]

I agree and will avoid the serious stuff until I replace the tyres......

Hi, the guys from SA on disco3.co.uk recently had a sand training event - went very well. Maybe ask when the next one will be? See the link:
Sand training (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic44030.html)

[WhiteD3]

I've got a set of maxtrax, used them once so far so they've paid for themselves. They're too big to go in the back of the car (if its packed) so yes as RMP says, they have to go on the roofracks.

Don't worry about the bag, not required.

[DiscoSaffa]

I am by no means an expert here, but watching the videos on the Maxtrax website, one thing that sets rigid type tracks from the bushranger types, or carpet would seem to be the ease and speed with which they can be used. One of the videos on the website shows a guy in a Prado bog down in sand, hop out and in the space of very little time scoop out a bit of the sand drop the Maxtrac? (what is the singular for Maxtrax??) in place and drive out.

I imagine with some sort of flexible device (carpet or bush ranger type santracks) this is a more time consuming process with a spade and or some other extra tool needed……. This may not be an issue for most of us considering how much sand driving we do, but for those who do it 3 times a week, and find themselves racing an incoming tide every time I reckon an easily accessible set of Maxtrax would be the go……

I say again, this is my very uneducated opinion, and I am happy to be corrected.

As with everything in this game, it comes down to cost, versus how much they are going to be used, and where they are going to be used…… so there is no one solution here for all of us

Rmp, I like your idea of clubs having a set. One of the reasons for joining a club and/or doing these outings in a group, is that between the group, most of the required recovery gear will be available without everyone having to have everything…… Another good reason to join GCLRO.... WhiteD3 has a set of Maxtrax....... :D

[rmp]

DS, you are correct, Maxtrax are as easy to use as these things get. The manufacturer states that they can be used as a shovel, and if you're a bodybuilder that is correct, but for normal people I strongly, strongly advise carrying at least one spade (not shovel) and an operator, in your case Safari Barbie (I do like that name).

When you need Maxtrax or similar the car will be to some extent stuck, but hopefully not down on the chassis rails. Have your passenger use the spade to remove the build of up sand in front of each wheel (your job is supervision, a job which will require a cool drink), jam the Maxtrax hard in against the tyre, and very gently idle up and out. Ensure the passenger is out of the car when you do this to save weight. Of course you can't stop once you're out, you need to get to firmer ground but that doesn't matter because the passenger can simply trot after the D3 and that exercise is cheaper than a gym. You can point money-saving this out to them, it helps.

If WhiteD3 owns Maxtrax perhaps they are his own personal property not the club's. He may of course rent them but no doubt he'd wait until the tide was within a bee's wotsit of the car before finalising the asking price.

[Tombie]

So I'm getting a very strong impression from this thread that some kind of sand recovery track is essential when going off road on beaches.

Have just looked at the price of Maxtrax: $295 a pair + $100 for the bag. Yikes! :o Here's their picture, so we're all on the same page:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/141.jpg


How do the maxtrax compare with other brands such as the Bushranger sandtracks (at c. $150 a pair) including bag. Here is a picture of these:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/142.jpg

Would you recommended sticking with Maxtrax because they are superior in performance/reliability? Is that why they are so much more expensive? Seems to me the Maxtrax would be more cumbersome to carry...

Maxtrax = Very good

Bushranger = Useless...

We spent hours recovering a Patrol (100mtrs in 4 hours) and these didnt help a bit...

Owner now has Maxtrax

[DiscoSaffa]

DS, you are correct, Maxtrax are as easy to use as these things get. The manufacturer states that they can be used as a shovel, and if you're a bodybuilder that is correct, but for normal people I strongly, strongly advise carrying at least one spade (not shovel) and an operator, in your case Safari Barbie (I do like that name).

When you need Maxtrax or similar the car will be to some extent stuck, but hopefully not down on the chassis rails. Have your passenger use the spade to remove the build of up sand in front of each wheel (your job is supervision, a job which will require a cool drink), jam the Maxtrax hard in against the tyre, and very gently idle up and out. Ensure the passenger is out of the car when you do this to save weight. Of course you can't stop once you're out, you need to get to firmer ground but that doesn't matter because the passenger can simply trot after the D3 and that exercise is cheaper than a gym. You can point money-saving this out to them, it helps. Love it!! :Rolling:Especially the part about the supervision requiring a cool drink! May just print this out as a "Sand Driving How to List" for Safari Barbie..... I am certain it will go down well!



If WhiteD3 owns Maxtrax perhaps they are his own personal property not the club's. He may of course rent them but no doubt he'd wait until the tide was within a bee's wotsit of the car before finalising the asking price. I suspect cool drinks (of sorts) will feature here as well!

[FifiLámour]

RMP! Too naughty!!! I am going to have to send my Police Girl after you and DiscoSaffa. Stop encouraging each other!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/68.jpg

[WhiteD3]

Another good reason to join GCLRO.... WhiteD3 has a set of Maxtrax....... :D

Would always help out a fellow club member on a trip, no issues there. But I do reserve the right to film the extraction, driver begging for the maxtrax included, for later posting on Youtube!

[rmp]

Would always help out a fellow club member on a trip, no issues there. But I do reserve the right to film the extraction, driver begging for the maxtrax included, for later posting on Youtube!

Sounds entirely fair to me, WD3. How long do usually you let the begging go on for? I generally give in after an hour. And also for Maxtrax requests.

[djhampson]

Sounds entirely fair to me, WD3. How long do usually you let the begging go on for? I generally give in after an hour. And also for Maxtrax requests.

In my experience as a Freelander driver with WhiteD3's recoveries (and there has been a lot of experience there) it takes about 2-3 minutes of medium level begging :p. I'm not sure if this would change for D3 drivers.

However, I do believe offers of Red Wine can reduce the quantity of begging required.

[DiscoSaffa]

RMP! Too naughty!!! I am going to have to send my Police Girl after you and DiscoSaffa. Stop encouraging each other!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/68.jpg
Is this meant to discourage us??? :angel:


Would always help out a fellow club member on a trip, no issues there. But I do reserve the right to film the extraction, driver begging for the maxtrax included, for later posting on Youtube! Thank you! As others have mentioned...... sounds fair...... at least you don't drive a Land Cruiser, would sleep in my bogged Disco before I allowed that to be filmed!! :D Just need to fill out the GCLRO application now....... [bigsmile]

[Jesse B]

Is this meant to discourage us??? :angel:


Please - NO discouragement here! This is waaaaaaaaay better than a novel - just picked myself up off the floor, and reassured distraught daughters that laughing like a lunatic doesn't really mean I'm losing my marbles! :lol2:

[roamer]

I've been very naughty as well :twisted: has police girl got a friend, I'm twice as naughty as the others :angel:

[DiscoSaffa]

I've been very naughty as well :twisted: has police girl got a friend, I'm twice as naughty as the others :angel:

Nurse girl perhaps?? :angel: By the looks of Police Girl we will need it!! :wheelchair:

[rmp]

Before we get too far into a competition to see who's been naughtiest and thus see what other wonders FFL brings out of her avatar cupboard (am I the only one thinking United States of Tara) if someone would like to take the sand-relevant parts of this thread and post in the FAQ thread I'll update the FAQ.

[WhiteD3]

I've been very naughty as well :twisted: has police girl got a friend, I'm twice as naughty as the others :angel:

Gents,

Keep in mind that things on the net are never what they seem. Fifi could be some hairy-arsed bloke with a beer belly, monk fringe and a fetish for Llamas.

ie you probably think I'm some burnt out, midlife crisis hasbeen when in reality I look like this!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Be careful what you wish for:eek:.



Sorry Fifi:wasntme:

[FifiLámour]

I've been very naughty as well :twisted: has police girl got a friend, I'm twice as naughty as the others :angel:

Careful what you wish for Roamer! You want punishment? Here you go ;)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/131.jpg

White D3. Nah, not a hairy arsed bloke, but I do have a few piercings and a couple of tatts ;):
















https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/132.jpg

Oh...and err, WhiteD3, you can borrow my Maxtrax any time ;).

[rmp]

Gents,
in reality I look like this!

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/9516/georgeclooney300.jpg



WOW!!! You're my long-lost twin brother, the uglier one!!!

[Hoges]

Maxtrax or similar are not *required* for sand driving -- we all managed before they existed. They are however very useful for recovery. So, if you intend to do a lot of sand driving they are a bonus, and I would suggest that 4WD clubs have a set to be lent out on trips. You only need one set per convoy really. They are the best sand recovery device I have used thus far (I have tested a set literally to destruction, yes it was fun) and were top rated in a recent review of such devices. Flexible tracks like the Bushranger (or carpet) do not spread the weight as effectively.

Whilst I have no commercial interest in the device I do know the owner/designer and *may* be able to swing a bulk deal if there's interest, say 5 sets of 2.
They need to be carried on the roofrack with no bag, just ocky straps, or inside but then really in a bag as they get sandy.


I'd be most interested in participating in the "deal" ;)

[djhampson]

Maxtrax or similar are not *required* for sand driving -- we all managed before they existed. They are however very useful for recovery. So, if you intend to do a lot of sand driving they are a bonus, and I would suggest that 4WD clubs have a set to be lent out on trips. You only need one set per convoy really. They are the best sand recovery device I have used thus far (I have tested a set literally to destruction, yes it was fun) and were top rated in a recent review of such devices. Flexible tracks like the Bushranger (or carpet) do not spread the weight as effectively.

Whilst I have no commercial interest in the device I do know the owner/designer and *may* be able to swing a bulk deal if there's interest, say 5 sets of 2.

They need to be carried on the roofrack with no bag, just ocky straps, or inside but then really in a bag as they get sandy.

I'm in for at least one pair.

[roamer]

Also after a set:
I,m in

[rmp]

OK, all those interested in a set of Maxtrax -- and this is a serious offer, if I ask them you'll be expected to come through -- email me (click my username) with your name and what you want, ie quantity (2 or 4) and if you want a bag. Four are ideal, but you can make do with two, and if someone else has a pair you've then got four anyway. I wouldn't bother with a bag if you can put them on the roofrack or outside.

No promises but I'll ask if we get to 5.

[Jamo]

I concur, low tyre pressures, Maxtrax and a shovel. That's what you need for soft sand.

Too many people around here resort immediately for the snatch strap.

And you need a real shovel. In one of my early forays I took a tools entrenching (small folding shovel) :eek: because it took up less space. Big mistake.

[Nomad9]

Jamo,
Guilty as charged, I went for the snatch strap, my problem was it was only a 9 meter one I had to be recovered with a 30 meter snatch strap. I believe that this would be rather a "horses for courses" type thing. In my situation the snatch strap was by far the most "efficient" method of recovery, there were three people in a RAV four which in all honesty was well out of it's "comfort zone" in the same area who had been trying to get out for over an hour, admittedly they were only using two Maxtrax and one of them had got jammed under the vehicle and was as it turned out slightly damaged by the heat of the exhaust resting on it. The owner of a passing Land Cruiser had lent these people his Maxtrax. In the end these people were recovered by a 30 meter snatch strap same as my self.
The following day our group went out and a 100 series got stuck, similar situation to myself, the beach where he got stuck was only three vehicles wide and there was a sharp 250 / 300 mm drop off in the middle so there was no way a snatch strap could be used. The guys on this occasion used four Maxtrax mats and a shovel and got the vehicle out fairly easily. So for me I believe there is a time and a place for everything, each situation is uniquely different.
Had I had my exhaust jack and all the cumbersomeness that goes with that this could also well have been a good method of recovery "eventually". This is just my opinion other may vary.

[lardy]

Hi Nomad9.
Here are a couple of rules re D3 in sand:
If you have DSC off and then turn the car off and then on again you have to reset DSC off.
The bong will bong at 40 kph but the car will not go back to normal height until you get up to 50kph. In other words you can go up to 50 kph in offroad height, certainly thats what I have found in my 05 model.
It may be that if you had gone first then the other vehicle may have got stuck.
I don't know why you lost power, it may have been re my first point re DSC or you may have been completely bellied out in which case the little bit of Traction Control (there is still some even with DSC off) may have kicked in.
I found on my Simpson Desert trip that it was much better to have the gearbox in Command Shift so that it will not change up a gear. I noticed that in auto mode if I lifted off going up a dune the gearbox change into a higher gear, the turbo was off boost and momentum was lost. If you lift off in Command Shift the gearbox stays in the same gear.
I have to say that sand is not one of D3's strong points but for it makes up for it everywhere else.
Hope this helps.

Discojools

That's a great buy if you live in Western Australia then we tend to have an insy winsy bit of sand here:eek:

[Jamo]

Nomad, as I think RMP mentioned, I think too many folks try to forego the shovelling bit. If the Rav4 dude with the maxtrax melted one on the exhaust, he probably didn't shovel enough. Most around here tend not to like shovelling so they rush in with snatch straps and other aids.

I must admit shovelling is hot sweaty work and we're usually not on the beach when it's cold.

Another method for me is the exhaust bag to lift the car and then fill the wheel holes.

You're right though, it's horses for courses.

[rmp]

Yep you MUST shovel even with Maxtrax. I prefer a spade which shifts less per load, but is less tiring and easier to get under the wheels with. A shovel is a bit big for fine work. Exhaust bag works but with a D3 we can go into Extended quite easily and my experience Maxtrax are better than an exhaust bag.

[Xtreme]

Yep you MUST shovel even with Maxtrax. I prefer a spade which shifts less per load, but is less tiring and easier to get under the wheels with. A shovel is a bit big for fine work. Exhaust bag works but with a D3 we can go into Extended quite easily and my experience Maxtrax are better than an exhaust bag.

Agree that the smaller load is better when digging.
I use a post hole shovel - small blade but long handle. Can also reach further under vehicle in case you didn't stop soon enough and dug in too much.
A bit harder to store in vehicle so mine usually lives on the roof rack.

[meggsie]

Hi Nomad9,
I have just come back from Robe SA where a did a lot of sand driving (forst time on sand in a D3 as well. I did find that using command shift worked very well. 3rd gear low was perfect for nearly every boggy bit and only used 2nd once.
I did not touch the DSC at all and found it didn't hinder the vehicle at all. I run 18's and found 16psi to be ideal. I have the 2005 V8 and it is fantastic, i love it even more after sand driving...its awsome. Mine looks almost identical to yours.
Here is a quick link of dune driving...YouTube- Land Rover Discovery Dune Race 2010
(Mine is closet to camera)

so, all i can say is you can have the best 4x4 in the world (and do) but sometime just have a bad stretch of sand and luck...

[rmp]

We've done exactly the same at exactly the same place, but the way I run it is that the SLOWEST to the top car wins, no stopping allowed. You can set up any number of sand trials if you use those rules and it's very safe.

[clean32]

Yep you MUST shovel even with Maxtrax. I prefer a spade which shifts less per load, but is less tiring and easier to get under the wheels with. A shovel is a bit big for fine work. Exhaust bag works but with a D3 we can go into Extended quite easily and my experience Maxtrax are better than an exhaust bag.

agree, nice sharp spade but with a long handle

[Bushwanderer]

Hi rmp,
I'm interested in the Maxtrax group buy.:)

Best Wishes,
Peter

[d2dave]

Hi rmp,
I'm interested in the Maxtrax group buy.:)

Best Wishes,
Peter

If I am not to late I would also be interested.

Have just read this thread. What a great read as I am considering a D3 for my next vehicle.

Dave.

[rmp]

There wasn't much real interest ($$$) in the end so it's closed.

[Daze]

Brilliant Thanks, my friend. The beaches at Beachport await.

[ozscott]

Hi Nomad9,
I have just come back from Robe SA where a did a lot of sand driving (forst time on sand in a D3 as well. I did find that using command shift worked very well. 3rd gear low was perfect for nearly every boggy bit and only used 2nd once.
I did not touch the DSC at all and found it didn't hinder the vehicle at all. I run 18's and found 16psi to be ideal. I have the 2005 V8 and it is fantastic, i love it even more after sand driving...its awsome. Mine looks almost identical to yours.
Here is a quick link of dune driving...YouTube- Land Rover Discovery Dune Race 2010 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bjt-RXZmGY)
(Mine is closet to camera)

so, all i can say is you can have the best 4x4 in the world (and do) but sometime just have a bad stretch of sand and luck...

It looks like fun, but sheer acceleration to get to the hill first at a higher speed will of course be a BIG help in scaling the hill. I like the idea posted above of the slowest one who can still climb the hill...thats the test because there are many slushy deeply cut up cuttings or access points that are uphill where you have to stop for someone coming the other way, or slow for a badly rutted out area etc, and the ability to move off from there or move slowly without the benefit of momentum is the key asset. Having said that it was a good vid.

Cheers

Cheers

[BigJon]

Brilliant Thanks, my friend. The beaches at Beachport await.

I was there for Christmas. Only got stuck once, but it was in a pretty spectacular way. Entirely my fault (had already driven through that particular spot once already the previous day).