Solar Electric for the home

[Chilly]

Hi,

Finally purchased my first Australian home. Slowly getting unpacked and have at last unloaded the Series 3 of all its cargo I can now continue working on it...yippeee!!

However back to my heading and questions.

Has anyone fitted Solar electric to their home?

what was the cost?

Did it/does it pay for itself..or close to paying for itself?

When you recommend it?

How about fitting it yourself?

The lovely government is offering some nice incentives and I am considering fitting it. Especially with the predictions of forthcoming price increases!!!


Cheers,

Chilly

[hiline]

if you like i could give you my mate's e-mail address,thats what he does for a job :D

he can give you all the info your after no doubt.........

[waz]

We're in the process of getting it put on.

The system we're looking at will cost about $10k. And on current power costs that will pay itself off in about 8yrs. (I reckon that the cost of power will continue to climb, so this timeframe will only decrease). We're still waiting for our report back from the govt.

I would strongly recommend getting yourself into the system by getting the free inspection done. That way you're on the books for the govt incentives. the govt are getting through the pool of money pretty quickly. There is no obligation to continue with the process after the inspection, but at least you'll be on the books if you decide to go down this path.

We're still deciding on a few things (amorphous or monocrystaline panels; extra panel or mounting brackets), but I think we're going to go ahead as soon as we can.

Waz

[Tombie]

We're installing at the moment too...

3kw system, should make us cost neutral minimum and recoup costs in 2 years and then making money :cool:

We're lining the northern face of my workshop with panels ;)

Based on available sun, and our usage, we wont use what we produce so will get rebated immediately.

Cost of our system before rebates etc is $18k

[JDNSW]

I have been living on solar power (no mains) for fifteen years. Cost then was about the same as getting the power on, about $30,000. Major ongoing cost is battery replacement - just replaced one bank, the other will need replacing soon.

In the past, solar power has been a very expensive form of power - it still is, but the cost of mains power has been rising to meet it and can be expected to continue to rise.

Cost of solar power has only decreased very slowly in the time I have been involved with it.

To qualify for any government subsidies, the installation will have to be done by a licenced installer. All high voltage (I think the figure is over 40v) wiring, whether connected to the mains or not, must be done by a licenced electrician. Despite this I would encourage you to learn what is involved and specify the design yourself to meet your needs - saves getting an unsuitable or too costly system.

John

[p38arover]

We're in the process of getting it put on.

The system we're looking at will cost about $10k. And on current power costs that will pay itself off in about 8yrs. (I reckon that the cost of power will continue to climb, so this timeframe will only decrease). We're still waiting for our report back from the govt.

As Chilly is in NSW he can connect and expect 60c/kwh payment for every kwh produced irrespective of what he uses (Gross Feed In Tariff). This reduces the payback period considerably.


Feed In Tariff Information for Australian PV System owners. (http://www.enviro-friendly.com/feed-in-tariff-pv.shtml)

[hoadie72]

Don't forget the option of a Green Loan if you're short of funds - up to $10k interest free, and subsidies still apply.

[Chilly]

Hi all,

Thank you for the replies.

I have had a couple of people round. The chap today came across well. Better and more knowledgeable than the first.

He has explained about the 'green loan'. You have to have an assessor come round and assess the whole house. Making out a report. I hope for this to take place on Thursday.

I would not look to connect the system myself. I would look at a person who is suitably qualified to do the electrics but more than happy to fit the panels and make a frame for them.

However, getting back to the chap who came today. He has left a price list. A 2.0Kw system is $9500. Plus frame for panels to get best North position for maximum efficiency.

My neighbour is interested too and we are waiting to see what quote he will give us both. The demand for the systems gives me the feeling that he will not discount too much..we will wait and see.

I would like to try and get to a 3.0Kw system but finances make that hard to reach that cost.

All the systems he has a price list for, ( up to 10Kw). give a repayment of just under five years. On current rates of course.

[p38arover]

I approached this mob for comparative quotes from multiple suppliers:

Solar Power, Solar Energy & Solar Home | Solar Energy Systems (http://www.solarchoice.net.au/)

1.5kw systems ranged from (after rebates) $5k to $15K.

3kw units ranged from $10k to $18k.

The lower priced ones are all Chinese.

[lotsmaw]

Hi Chilly,

Like JDNSW, I run a totally off the grid system - 2 in fact - one for my house and anther for my winery and cellar door area. This means that managing the solar system is a big part of keeping my property running smoothly.

I don't profess to be an expert on these systems but one thing I have learned is that the "experts" are not always reliable or professional. Finding the ideal installer is critical - make sure they have plenty of experience and can show you some reference sites.

If the only thing they are full bottle on is the government funding initiatives and the product catalogue then move on: there are plenty of newcomers to the industry cashing in on the new levels of interest in alternative energy.

Good luck,

Bill

[Heggs]

I had sun savers sunsavers.com.au (http://www.sunsavers.com.au/product_2.8kW.php)
system installed they are based in SA but used a contractor over here WA, I can highly recommend them they were very efficient and did a really neat job. The 2.8 kw system seams to be covering my entire bill so far, but i guess that will depend on how much power you use.:D

[rar110]

we have been on grid connect solar for about 1 1/2 yrs and have a solar hw system.


2 kw BP mono panels (last of the Homebush made panels)



Latronics inverter;



Edwards hotwater.

The panels make about 9 to 11 kwh per day in Brisbane. We previously (with electric hw) would consume about 11 to 15 kwh per day from memory. We are on 100% green power which costs us about 20c per kwh. I think we on average now draw about 3 kwh per day from the grid. We get paid about 50c per kwh.

So in summary we use some power in the day time but most goes into the grid. We then draw down from the grid at night. We still consume more power than we produce. However, because of the premium price paid for feed in solar power we now have no power bill and $100 credit each quarter (after the Qld Govt Ambulance Levy so really about $130).

Our system cost about $21000 less $8000 from the rebate.

I have seen systems cost a lot less than that. However, they cant/wont tell you the brand of the panels or inverter. Warranty claims go back to the manufacture (probably in China) not the retailer/installer. It looks to me like dodgy operators have moved from insulation to solar.

[rar110]

I had a look at prices through a Queensland group buy offer. Prices have certainly reduced since we bought our system. You can now buy a 2 kw system for about $12,000 using Sharp panels.

[PhilipA]

See
After Boom and Bust, Solar Power Has a Place in the Spanish Sun - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/09/business/energy-environment/09solar.html?hp)
The same will happen here, and is already happening.

Regards Philip A

[R4+Z]

The most cost effective intro to solar at the moment is a 1.5Kw system and can be bought for as little as $2500 I have been researching for a while and am on the verge of comitting to a purchase. Anything above 1.5Kw the cost rises exponentially as that is the size the government grants are aimed at. You can however then upgrade the inverter to give you the ability to expand later. It is worth checking out Home - Whirlpool Forums (http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/138) (there are a number of threads to garner info from), more info about the offer I refer to can be found here.....

Please click on your state to find out our latest offers (http://www.nuenergy.com.au/component/content/article/189.html)

[TheLoneRangie]

Thanks for the info

[p38arover]

I've ordered a 3kW system. I got the $10K govt interest free loan to fund it.

[isuzurover]

Do any of the sparkies out there know if there is a safe, legal way to disconnect your home from the grid temporarily. I.e. - say you have a grid interactive solar system, and there is a brown out where you live. If you disconnect from the grid, you could still use the power you are generating...

[bee utey]

Do any of the sparkies out there know if there is a safe, legal way to disconnect your home from the grid temporarily. I.e. - say you have a grid interactive solar system, and there is a brown out where you live. If you disconnect from the grid, you could still use the power you are generating...
To use the power from a set of grid connect panels you need a different inverter and a battery bank. Not cheap.

[Chucaro]

Becareful with the calculations of getting the money back so quick.
If the system it is conected to the grid any money that the owner have in credit towards the power bill is considered as an income, therefore taxable. ;)
Just read HERE (http://www.news.com.au/money/money-matters/kevin-rudd-stings-pensioners-for-going-green/story-e6frfmd9-1225858168868)

Cheers

[p38arover]

Intersting in that Feed In Tariff Information for Australian PV System owners. (http://www.enviro-friendly.com/feed-in-tariff-pv.shtml) says they have an ATO ruling that it is not taxable.


A lot of people are confused over conflicting opinions on whether income from a feed-in tariff in Australia is taxable income. The short answer is 'No'. We have been provided with an ATO Private Ruling on the subject. After a period of time, the Ruling enters the public domain, and will be added to the ATO website's database. Until then, rest easy!


See also http://forums.energymatters.com.au/solar-wind-rebates/topic1070-30.html

I have seen that info elsewhere and was one of the reasons I considered PV panels.

[R4+Z]

Do any of the sparkies out there know if there is a safe, legal way to disconnect your home from the grid temporarily. I.e. - say you have a grid interactive solar system, and there is a brown out where you live. If you disconnect from the grid, you could still use the power you are generating...

Whilst not a sparkie, I do agree with Bee Utey as the Inverter used for a grid connect system will not operate when there is no power on the grid. So one out ... all out.

It may be possible to configure a system to provide power when the grid is down as well as feed in when it isn't, but that is a bigger question than is normally covered in a forum like this. However it raises an interesting question, Could you store power during off peak times and feed it back in during peak times (if you had such a system) as this would increase the benefits from feed in tarrifs (in some states) and improve payback times!

Hmm! More homework needed!

[bee utey]

Whilst not a sparkie, I do agree with Bee Utey as the Inverter used for a grid connect system will not operate when there is no power on the grid. So one out ... all out.

It may be possible to configure a system to provide power when the grid is down as well as feed in when it isn't, but that is a bigger question than is normally covered in a forum like this. However it raises an interesting question, Could you store power during off peak times and feed it back in during peak times (if you had such a system) as this would increase the benefits from feed in tarrifs (in some states) and improve payback times!

Hmm! More homework needed!
With sufficient money, anything is possible! For emergency running, a dual use inverter is here: Selectronic Australia Pty Ltd - True Sine Wave Inverters (http://www.selectronic.com.au/inverter/grid.html)

I believe group trials of electric cars will include the ability to feed the grid from the vehicle battery in times of peak load. That way more cars can be safely charged off the existing grid. When you arn't driving the car remains plugged in to a grid interactive charger/inverter.

[Dinty]

G'day All, I have been looking at this thread and have read some of the comments in a link posted by 'Chucaro', we installed a twin set of 3 panels, it is located on the garage/shed and all the gadgets that go with it are located within the shed, it has been operational now since early September 2009.
We have generated some 900Kwh, we have also have 2 accounts from, INTEGRAL ENERGY and we haven't recieved a bloody cent from anything generated, so much for green energy, the last time we spoke to them, they said we now need to spend another $3,500+ to install a "Grosse meter" whatever the hell that is and that isn't going to happen, so for my investment of who knows what we have had zero/zulch/nothing/FA for our outlay. We have contacted our energy supplier (as stated above) they claim they haven't paid anyone for anything thats put into the grid, my wife has spent hours on the phone talking to idiots who don't know the difference between s**t n clay, I could/should have spent the money on something better, like a much bigger truck to restore, and just to add insult to injury, I had just replaced the roof on the garage and now it has holes in it everywhere holding down the crap thats up there, so whats the point of this, think long and hard before wasting money installing solar panels rant over cheers Dennis:angel:

[p38arover]

Dennis, you sound like you have the older metering system installed. I'm not sure how it works - probably with a nett feed-in tariff where what you generate is deducted from what you use.

There was a loophole which was supposed to have been closed where the electricity companies weren't paying for the electricity generated if it was above what you used. They left you in credit.

From this year, NSW introduced gross feed-in tariffs where you are paid 60c/kWh you generate. Your meter will need to be changed to do that.

See also NSW Solar Bonus Scheme - frequently asked questions | Industry & Investment NSW (http://www.industry.nsw.gov.au/energy/sustainable/renewable/solar/solar-scheme/faq#What-is-the-difference-between-a-'net'-and-a-'gross'-feed-in-tariff)?

See in particular:


Consumers in the EnergyAustralia and Country Energy network areas who are thinking of installing solar PV systems during the transitional period (up until 1 July 2010) should be aware that the network businesses will pay the credit to customers with net metering during this period. However, after 1 July 2010 and for the remainder of the Scheme's duration, the credit will only be paid to eligible customers with gross metering. After 1 January 2010, consumers who wish to participate in the Solar Bonus Scheme and have not yet installed a renewable energy generator and electricity meter should consider their options carefully, and should be aware that changing metering will incur expenses.


However, the $3,500 charge seems excessive. I'll check with my supplier for an estimated supply/install cost.

[bee utey]

Many people who tell me they are getting solar panels on I say to them: "Make sure you get the import/export meter fitted first!" Nah, they say, the solar installer is taking care of that. Well, they don't. It's the electricity retailer that organises meters and they need months of lead time to get around to it. If they aren't booked in ASAP you will generate power FOR MONTHS that will only reduce your total not generate credit. In SA it cost me $850 for ETSA to install a suitable 3 phase meter. I had it on 1 month before the solar was connected and so it generated credits from day 1.

In 18 months my 1.5kW system has generated 3370kWh and sold 2270 of them for credit at 50c/kWh. So 1100 come off my bill at 20c/kWh as well. Definitely worth it for me so long as nothing blows up.

[Bush65]

I'm getting closer to building on my bush block. The power lines run along my front boundary, but my preferred building sites (not finalised yet) are some 200 plus m back.

I don't plan on using much power, so am thinking of a few PV panels and batteries, and a generator for power tools. No inverter or grid connection, simply DC power for led or florescent lights, similar fridge technology to what we use in vehicles.

[BigTim]

G'day All, I have been looking at this thread and have read some of the comments in a link posted by 'Chucaro', we installed a twin set of 3 panels, it is located on the garage/shed and all the gadgets that go with it are located within the shed, it has been operational now since early September 2009.
We have generated some 900Kwh, we have also have 2 accounts from, INTEGRAL ENERGY and we haven't recieved a bloody cent from anything generated, so much for green energy, the last time we spoke to them, they said we now need to spend another $3,500+ to install a "Grosse meter" whatever the hell that is and that isn't going to happen, so for my investment of who knows what we have had zero/zulch/nothing/FA for our outlay. We have contacted our energy supplier (as stated above) they claim they haven't paid anyone for anything thats put into the grid, my wife has spent hours on the phone talking to idiots who don't know the difference between s**t n clay, I could/should have spent the money on something better, like a much bigger truck to restore, and just to add insult to injury, I had just replaced the roof on the garage and now it has holes in it everywhere holding down the crap thats up there, so whats the point of this, think long and hard before wasting money installing solar panels rant over cheers Dennis:angel:

G'day Dennis.

I'm an electrician and a Clean Energy Council accredited solar installer, and I am (sadly) quite familiar with the paperwork etc involved in getting the metering sorted correctly.

p38arover is on the right track - back in September 2009 your system would have been configured as a "net" metered system and should have had a "bi-directional" meter (probably digital) fitted at your switchboard on completion.
Basically under the net metering system your property would use power generated by the PV system in preference to drawing from the grid, and any excess generation would be fed to the grid, effectively offseting your power usage when you are at home with the power generated when you are not.

The legislation was changed to the Solar Bonus Scheme with no warning at the very end of December 2009. This caused quite a lot of issues for all the energy distributors in NSW (Country Energy, Energy Australia and Integral Energy) as two of them were caught without suitable meters for quite some time and all were underprepared for the massive increase in applications and connections. (to give an example Integral were just today processing applications I submitted on 14/4 and have only just inspected systems I installed in late February! Metering was fitted and power being exported well prior to their inspection). Under the Solar Bonus Scheme all systems are to be configured as "gross" metered, with a separate "gross" meter measuring all power generated and exported to the grid by your pv system and your normal import meters (peak and off peak) measuring power drawn by your property. Here's the kicker for those of you with rural properties however......in order for gross metering to be used, the output from inverter must be directly connected to the main switchboard (where the meters are located), NOT to a sub-distribution board as is typically used for a shed or garage located away from the main house.

To have a gross meter installed is typically a $300 to $500 exercise and can be carried out by any Level 2 Category 4 Authorised Service Provider electrician as a contestable work. A complete list of these providers can be found on the Fair Trading NSW website here http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/pdfs/Consumers/ASP_list_level2.pdf (note 56 pages 415kb might take a while to load). Your quote for $3500 sounds to me like you have the situation described above....i.e. pv system has been connected to a sub-distribution board rather than the main switchboard. The additional costs would likely be for trenching and running a new cable from the inverter location to the main switchboard.

Note that your energy supplier may not necessarily be the best people to contact regarding this kind of thing - there are two tiers of energy companies in NSW, distributors (Country Energy, Energy Australia, Integral Energy) who own and maintain the poles and wires in the street and retailers (many and various but confusingly also including the RETAIL branches of Country Energy, Energy Australia and Integral Energy) who you buy your electricity from. You can buy from ANY RETAILER, irrespective of the DISTRIBUTOR for your area, (same as internet and telephone via Optus or Telstra or 3 or whoever but over same set of wires). The distributor for your area (Cessnock I believe? is Energy Australia) is the best to talk to about metering.

As to the holes forming in your garage roof where the pv system rails are screwed down....it sounds like it is a warranty issue to me, particularly if the roof had been replaced recently prior to the pv system install. Take a careful look under one of the L-shaped mounting feet - there should be a 3-5mm thick rubber pad insulating the aluminium foot from the metal roof. This prevents galvanic action from corroding your roof away. If not this would likely be the cause of the holes....

If you need further advice please feel free to send me a PM. While Cessnock is somewhat out of my usual operating area of Western Sydney I might even be able to arrange to drop in at some point, inspect your system and give you a free, independent assessment of what needs to be done so you can get quotes from local contractors.

[PhilipA]

Can you please clarify a point that I am SURE I saw in one ad but no others.

It stated that a condition for accepting the NSW and federal bonuses was that the electricity from the grid would be charged at "Time of Day" metering with AFAIR tariffs of 35c per kw hour from 4 to 8 PM, and lower tariffs at other times, AFAIK 13c and 7c 11PM-6AM.

I have looked at the FAQs on the NSW State Government site but no mention there.

Seeing the "feed in" tariff stays constant at 60c per Kwh for 7 years, as per NSW FAQs, surely this will have a great effect on the investment return, if "time of day" tariffs go up by the percentages indicated in NSW ie 33%.

Experience in the USA and Victoria suggest that "time of day" tariffs increase bills by approx 40% compared with "dumb" metering, so is it that what the government gives with one hand it taketh away with the other???

Regards Philip A

[PhilipA]

Found on Energy Australia site.


If your existing metering is an older style dial display non-digital (type 6) meter, the upgrade to a GROSS configuration for your Solar Power System will mean your meters will change to new time-of-use capable interval metering;

For EnergyAustralia retail customers (in the EnergyAustralia Network Area):

– you will still be able to keep your off-peak hot water rates, (if any);
– if you are not already on Time-of-Use electricity rates tariff (also known as Residental PowerSmart (http://www.aulro.com/State/NSW/Residential/Products-and-services/Electricity/PowerSmart-time-based-pricing.aspx), Business PowerSmart (http://www.aulro.com/State/NSW/Business/Small-and-medium-business/Business-products-and-services/Electricity/PowerSmart-time-based-pricing.aspx) or Business LoadSmart (http://www.aulro.com/State/NSW/Business/Small-and-medium-business/Business-products-and-services/Electricity/LoadSmart-time-based-pricing.aspx)), installation of the GROSS meter will mean that your electricity rates will change from single consumption to Time-of-Use;
- A letter introducing Time-of-Use billing will be sent to you soon after the metering change;
For rates see here

PowerSmart rates - EnergyAustralia (http://www.energyaustralia.com.au/State/NSW/Residential/Products-and-services/Electricity/PowerSmart-time-based-pricing/PowerSmart-rates.aspx)
Regard sPhilip A

[p38arover]

Where exactly is that page, Philip?

I want to ask my solar supplier about it.

[isuzurover]

To use the power from a set of grid connect panels you need a different inverter and a battery bank. Not cheap.

I don't see why a battery bank is needed though?

If the grid interactive inverter is able to provide power at 50Hz in phase with the grid, why can't it power household appliances in the same way when not connected to the grid?

[PhilipA]

Where exactly is that page, Philip?

I want to ask my solar supplier about it.

Solar Bonus Scheme Questions & Answers - EnergyAustralia (http://www.energyaustralia.com.au/State/NSW/Residential/Products-and-services/Solar-power/NSW-Solar-Bonus-Scheme-Questions-and-Answers.aspx#Q5)

See question 3

Energy Australia say in their blurb that customers have saved !! introducing TOD. I recall reading recently that Victoria has suspended roll out of smart meters due to complaints and I read a couple of months ago in the NYT that in Texas? the same had occurred with customers paying up to 40% more. Hard to see how you can save unless you wash after 10PM or rearrange your life around automated turning on in the middle of the night for dishwashers etc.

[p38arover]

Thanks Philip. I just checked my meters and they are digital style (Landis and Gyr CM100 not, I assume, Type 6 meters - see Landis+Gyr | Products (http://www.landisgyr.com/za/en/pub/products_and_solutions.cfm?eventProducts=products. ProductDetails&ID=15&catID=25)) so I hope I won't move to the timed tariff.

I really have to wonder if Energy Australia are feeding us a line with their figures on happy customers with reduced bills.

[BigTim]

Can you please clarify a point that I am SURE I saw in one ad but no others.

It stated that a condition for accepting the NSW and federal bonuses was that the electricity from the grid would be charged at "Time of Day" metering with AFAIR tariffs of 35c per kw hour from 4 to 8 PM, and lower tariffs at other times, AFAIK 13c and 7c 11PM-6AM.

I have looked at the FAQs on the NSW State Government site but no mention there.

Seeing the "feed in" tariff stays constant at 60c per Kwh for 7 years, as per NSW FAQs, surely this will have a great effect on the investment return, if "time of day" tariffs go up by the percentages indicated in NSW ie 33%.

Experience in the USA and Victoria suggest that "time of day" tariffs increase bills by approx 40% compared with "dumb" metering, so is it that what the government gives with one hand it taketh away with the other???

Regards Philip A

Quite correct Phillip A

It is important to shop around the various energy retailers (and not just the "traditional" supplier of last resort which is the same as your energy distributor) to get the best deal. Certain energy retailers (e.g. Energy Australia) are certainly doing their best to maintain their profit margins by forcing those of us who chose to install solar onto Time of Use / Time of Day tariffs. :mad: However, there is a way around this....you do NOT have to buy your electricity from the electricity distributor (Energy Australia, Integral Energy, Country Energy), you can choose your retailer. Even if ToU capable metering is installed, you can still be on a normal retail tariff, it's just a case of picking the right retailer. I strongly suggest anyone considering installing a photovoltaic system (or who has one already) check with the various suppliers for the best deal. A list of all the retailers in NSW can be found here: Electricity suppliers in NSW (http://www.ewon.com.au/suppliers/2_1_1.html)
A couple of real life examples:
I installed a 1kW system for my friend in Campbelltown NSW - Integral Energy distribution area, he's with Integral Energy retail, existing spinning disk import meter retained - another spinning disk export meter installed for the PV system i.e GROSS metered. Standard tariff rates for import energy, 60c/kWh for export energy.
I installed a 1.5kW system on my rental property up at Lismore, NSW in June 2009- Country Energy distribution area, Country Energy retailer, existing spinning disk import meter changed for bi-directional digital import/export ToU capable meter i.e. NET metered. Standard tariff rates for import energy, 60c/kWh for export energy (in this case only the excess energy is exported, the house load may use some). This system will be upgraded to GROSS metered by Country Energy by 1st July 2010 and standard tariff import rate will still apply.

[p38arover]

My retailer is AGL and I've tried asking them but they are bloody hopeless. The person who answered the phone didn't know about gross metering and the installation of equipment.

[bee utey]

My retailer is AGL and I've tried asking them but they are bloody hopeless. The person who answered the phone didn't know about gross metering and the installation of equipment.

Same here, I gave them the flick as soon as the solar went on. I would try asking the Alternate Technology Association, Alternative Technology Association website (http://www.ata.org.au), as they recently started a survey to find out how retailers were treating new solar customers and how they (weren't) dealing with complaints. Scary stuff.

[BigTim]

To be bluntly honest about it folks, it's not really in the energy supplier's best interests to be open, up front and helpful about this is it? After all what we are doing is cutting their profit margins.

From my own experience the front-line customer service staff with most suppliers do not appear to have been given any sort of training or explanation of how to handle queries about these systems. That or they have only had it explained to them in terms of the specific supplier's "branded' system (e.g. up until recently Integral Energy used to refer to all grid connected renewable systems as "Sunpower" systems - bit confusing when you consider that SunPower is a major supplier of PV modules). The other problem is that the front-line staff are usually not technically trained - after all you don't want to pay an engineer to answer billing queries, even if you could manage to keep said engineer from going mad with boredom......I know that's why I left one fairly well paid technical sales rep position....that and people just will not READ the ^&%$##^& manuals.

That said, having spoken with policy level representatives from each of the energy distributors at a couple of installer conferences, the technical and legal issues are all well covered now and it's mostly a case of finding the right person to talk to. Once you DO find someone who knows about grid-connect PV systems they tend to be very knowledgeable.

My other suggestion would be to look at the Clean Energy Council listing of accredited installers here Clean Energy Council | Find an Installer (http://www.cleanenergycouncil.org.au/cec/accreditation/Solar-PV-accreditation/findaninstaller.html) and contact an installer who is located close to you. They should be willing to discuss various options and walk you through the application / installation / metering process - I know I certainly do with my clients.

If all else fails - feel free to drop me a PM and I'll help where I can.

[Keithy P38]

Hey all,

Sorry I didnt catch this thread when it started!!

I've got a PV Grid Connect Solar System at my place - and have had for nearly two years now. I live in sunny Townsville (except wet season!), and can report that i've had no power bills since.

I'm averaging about 5.5kWh per day (some days are around the 7.5kWh, overcast days will net me about 3kWh). I have 8 panels and total max solar would be about 1.4kW, so it's not too bad, but its certainly not the biggest system out there! I'm in credit with Ergon. And any credit you make is non-taxable as it's "Green Energy".

What would I recommend?

I work week-home week-away, so my 'small' system is good enough for me, however if you have the Mrs and kids at home every day i'd suggest going for a 2kW system as a minimum. Depends on how much solar you can generate per day. I was using around 11kWh per day average before solar, now i'm down to about 7, but that includes weeks when i'm not here.

The key to making it work for you is this:

- Wash your clothes before the sun comes up or after it goes down. This way your using Grid power and not the precious solar power that you want to sell (as solar electricity pays more than it costs to use grid power - 44c/kWh in QLD).

- Turn off every power point that you dont need on. This includes the kettle, microwave, TV's use a VERY LARGE amount of power on standby, the computer. I leave my fridge running because I'd hate for the beer to be hot and milk to be curdled.

- In some areas the hot water and air conditioners will run on a second tarriff. This cannot be cancelled out by the solar electricity, or, in other words, you will always use Grid power for those, so if you insist on living indoors and using them during the day, then don't feel guilty as you'll still sell Solar electricity via the regular tarriff provided your not using it!

- Every month, get on your roof with a bucket of soapy water, the hose and a window cleaner. I often get up there to find more bat s$!t and dust than you can poke a stick at. It only takes about 5mins to give them a bath!

- Check your inverter and meter weekly to ensure you have no faults. I had an earth leakage fault on my inverter just after the first year which I didnt pick up for about 3weeks and that did effect how much I generated for those days.

- Cut down those trees that will cover them up!! If you don't want to cut them down, maybe just keep them pruned nicely! I'm lucky to have trees that won't get above 2m along my fences!

- Be power conscious! IF you have to use it, use it!! But if you dont need lights on during the day or can wait until sundown to use vacuums or pressure washers, then you'll do alright!

Hope i've been of some help!

Cheers
Keithy

[LBudgie]

ok, i have read the posts and my brain has gone bbbllllllaaaaaarrrrrr.
Being only a little bit clever but only when nuts and bolts are involve. i find this electrickery stuff just not my thing.
would like to get solar panels to help with the bill (last one was $1100).
i know that i wont get total independance but it all helps.
what would be a preferable cell, meter, system to get?
what jargon should i use when talking to a installer?
what should i avoid?
who should do it?
aprox how much am i looking at?

any help apreciated
Thanks
Paul

[p38arover]

I'm wondering if I should get an inverter that has remote monitoring back to my PC so I can more easily keep track of power generated.

[bee utey]

ok, i have read the posts and my brain has gone bbbllllllaaaaaarrrrrr.
Being only a little bit clever but only when nuts and bolts are involve. i find this electrickery stuff just not my thing.
would like to get solar panels to help with the bill (last one was $1100).
i know that i wont get total independance but it all helps.
what would be a preferable cell, meter, system to get?
what jargon should i use when talking to a installer?
what should i avoid?
who should do it?
aprox how much am i looking at?

any help apreciated
Thanks
Paul
Try this company, I have had a couple of dealings with him and he seems to know his stuff: K & C Stork Solar Power Consultants (http://www.kcsolar.com.au/)

[Hebe]

Deleted... wrong thread... sorry

[richard4u2]

i am looking after a house in dunsborough which has a system on it.
the system was installed by solarshop australia on the 29/3/2010 the coast $10,000 which there was a rebate of $8,000 the system has 12 x 100 watt panels . since the installation it has prouduced 280 kw . the panels are kaneka marine hybrid u-db 100 with a sunny boy inverter sb1700 . with one person in the house i am using on average of 7kw per night the panels seem to be covering my day use

[richard4u2]

7 days ending 9am on the 9/6/10 the system produced 20kw the house used 50kw , an hourly reading for the 8/6/10 9am 379w 10am 789w 11am 868w 12 noon 856w 1pm 706w (4 panel in shade) 2pm 266w (light cloud) 3pm 683w 4pm 78w all panels in shade , the day produced 4.19 kw

[cartm58]

So Richard the house was in deficit in terms of solar power not meeting power actually consumed.

A friend is installing solar system costing $10,000 with $8,000 Government subsidy and requires an estimated $5,000 on top of that to become solar power positive and he lives alone in his house, a family power consumption would require a larger investment.

For me the entire monetary equation doesn't make sense in terms of pay back for solar and it boils down to a good feel green environmental wish washy exercise at the expense of the tax payer who as always is footing the dream of some politician.

[richard4u2]

yeah last week by 50kw remembering it is winter, elect blanket etc

[richard4u2]

week ending 16/6 9am system produced 14 kw and the house used 93 kw ( 2 people )

[gpigeon]

cartm58,
I don't think you can make blanket statements like "to me the whole monetary thing doesn't make sense".
It depends which State you live in! Gross or net FIT's? Different rates for different States!
I am currently having a 10kW system installed for $50k and I believe it will pay itself off in 5 years. After that.....just profit! Maybe I have an error in my maths???
In NSW Origin Energy is paying 66c / kWh gross (ie for EVERY kWh produced). In WA where you are it is I believe only 47c net, so you only get paid for your excess. That is over and above what you consume.
Regards.
bw

[stuee]

cartm58,
I don't think you can make blanket statements like "to me the whole monetary thing doesn't make sense".
It depends which State you live in! Gross or net FIT's? Different rates for different States!
I am currently having a 10kW system installed for $50k and I believe it will pay itself off in 5 years. After that.....just profit! Maybe I have an error in my maths???
In NSW Origin Energy is paying 66c / kWh gross (ie for EVERY kWh produced). In WA where you are it is I believe only 47c net, so you only get paid for your excess. That is over and above what you consume.
Regards.
bw

Agree with all your points. WA's policy was only recently finalised after the last fund ran out of cash. Details are below (your figure is correct when you add the govt 40c and synergy's 7c):
A Feed-in Tariff for Renewable Energy Systems (http://www.clean.energy.wa.gov.au/pages/re_feed-in_tariff.asp)
http://www.clean.energy.wa.gov.au/pdf/FAQs%20for%20Info%20Pack%20-%208%20June%202010%20%282%29.pdf

The main point of the scheme being that its to recover capital expenses of installing a solar system as opposed to making money from it.

The only concern I would have with the NSW system is how likely is it for the govt to change the feed in tariff? As it is it's a very generous scheme and would a change in government or cost cutting effect that tariff?

[slug_burner]

..........snip..

The main point of the scheme being that its to recover capital expenses of installing a solar system as opposed to making money from it.

The only concern I would have with the NSW system is how likely is it for the govt to change the feed in tariff? As it is it's a very generous scheme and would a change in government or cost cutting effect that tariff?



I don't see the difference between the recovery of capital expense and making money. If it was all about recovery of capital expense only then they would cap the payments to you once you recovered your initial outlay. Unless they figure that the system will require replacement at about the time that the system has paid for it self.

It is all about trying to meet the targets set for going away from carbon producing electricity generation.

I too would have some concern about the possibility that the NSW scheme will change as it is so much more generous that other states and also covers all power produced not just the amount that is put back into the grid.

[PhilipA]

I recall reading recently that the scheme goes for 7years from inception last year. No guarantees after that.
Also consider that the 60 cents( plus 6 from) Energy Australia) will remain at that fixed price for the duration of the scheme , but purchased energy will increase reputedly by at least 30% with no ETS and 60% with an ETS.

Also consider that TOD metering is very likely to be rolled out in this time period. NOW if with Energy Australia.
Regards Philip A

[PhilipA]

I just heard a good one from a friend a few days ago.
He alleges that the residents of South west Sydney have worked out a great new scam.
They buy the solar panels under the program and supplement the electricity they sell to the grid at 66C a KW hour by running a generator into the system. Sounds quite believable and elegant to me.

So there you go all you solar installers. How to make sure that your bill goes down.

It must be a diesel gene ,because on a quick calculation a petrol one would cost too much in fuel , but if they pooled together a few houses with panels and a big diesel it may be a goer.
Regards Philip A

[richard4u2]

dont know if i got this right or not , but you only get paid if your meter has a lower reading at the end of the month then at the beginning of the month ?

[Quarks]

The other day we signed up to get solar installed. I was expecting that they would want to put the panels on the north-facing garage roof, but instead the E-NE roof of the house is the preferred option as that requires a far less complex wiring run to the meter box. It's only a 2.2kW system, but we are also getting a new meter installed (have to rearrange the meter box to fit it too), which will count energy produced separately to that consumed.

:)

[bee utey]

dont know if i got this right or not , but you only get paid if your meter has a lower reading at the end of the month then at the beginning of the month ?

Um, no. you have to have the right meter/s installed (at your cost) which measure the solar output separately from the consumption, and then you get paid the solar rebate for the production, less what your comsumption cost is. There is net metering or gross metering of the solar output depending on what state you are in. They are calculated differently.

[hoadie72]

I just heard a good one from a friend a few days ago.
He alleges that the residents of South west Sydney have worked out a great new scam.
They buy the solar panels under the program and supplement the electricity they sell to the grid at 66C a KW hour by running a generator into the system. Sounds quite believable and elegant to me.

So there you go all you solar installers. How to make sure that your bill goes down.

It must be a diesel gene ,because on a quick calculation a petrol one would cost too much in fuel , but if they pooled together a few houses with panels and a big diesel it may be a goer.
Regards Philip AWouldn't the electricity company keep records of the size of the panels and quickly put two and two together and come up with 15? ie the supposed output of the panels is greater than what is possible?

[p38arover]

Re the financial viability of the project, I probably wouldn't have gone ahead with it had (a) the NSW scheme offered a 7-year guarantee of 60 c/kwh and (b) I hadn't got the $10,000 interest-free loan for system.

[Bundalene]

Guess what we had installed to-day.


.




,



,



,



























https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://img715.imageshack.us/i/dscn1555a.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Erich

[gpigeon]

Philip A,
If those people in Western Sydney want to cheat the system why bother to run a generator?????
Just hook up a 12V/24V battery charger (run from the mains) to the inverter and feed the output straight back into the grid. Costs you about 20c per kWh to supply the battery charger and you get about 66c per kWh Feed in Tariff. Sure you will have some losses due to inefficiencies but much less than running an IC engine.
NOT legal (the FIT is for PV & wind generated power only) plus it wouldn't take long for the Energy supplier to get onto it. They will know the size of the installation and the likely output. Unless you can convince them that the sun shines more on you (some people do have this problem!)than anyone else I think they will be paying you a visit.
regards.
BW

[gpigeon]

Quarks,
Good to see you have got your pV system installed.
re your orientation......the "Clean Energy Council of Aust." have a very handy PV design guide which gives tables of efficiencies for different panel inclinations and orientations around the country. It is quite difficult to find on their web site but I have a pdf copy so if you are interested pm me and I will email it to you.
I have just had a 10kW system installed but still waiting for meters and inspection so it is not generating yet. However, the system supplier told me originally that it would not be worth installing the 55 panels on a tilt frame to get the optimum 30 deg (roof is flat) but by referring to the tables I could see that I would get an extra 10% power with the frames so they will pay for themselves in less than 2 yrs.
regards.
BW

[stevo]

looks like you might need to trim some trees bundalene the panels at the end are shaded along with the solar hot water

[gpigeon]

Bundaliene,
What time of day is that photo taken? Did you know that when a part of even one panel is shaded it cuts output dramatically from the whole string? It is NOT proportional! Like 10% shade equals 10% loss!
I found this out the hard way and got the installers back to move my panels. They grumbled but admitted that it was their fault.
Cheers.
BW

[bronson]

Do any of the sparkies out there know if there is a safe, legal way to disconnect your home from the grid temporarily. I.e. - say you have a grid interactive solar system, and there is a brown out where you live. If you disconnect from the grid, you could still use the power you are generating...

Hey Isuzurover,
just to let you know, the inverter needs 240vs from the grid to operate, not just from yr solar array. A stand alone system is the only option
cheers
bronson

[bee utey]

Do any of the sparkies out there know if there is a safe, legal way to disconnect your home from the grid temporarily. I.e. - say you have a grid interactive solar system, and there is a brown out where you live. If you disconnect from the grid, you could still use the power you are generating...
Just read an advert from Selectronic (Selectronic Australia Pty Ltd (http://www.selectronic.com.au)) touting their SP PRO inverters, designed for just that job. "Battery based grid feed inverters" Probably cost many many thousands to set up but worth the one-upmanship in a dark street.

[slug_burner]

Guess what we had installed to-day.


.




,



,



,



























http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/1318/dscn1555a.jpg (http://img715.imageshack.us/i/dscn1555a.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Erich

Is that a rain gauge? Oregon Scientific perhaps?

[Reads90]

Well very interesting post

I have just got 11 grand back from tax and 5 grand surprise bonus so I am going for the full kit of solar for the house

Just about to do the deal

Ali


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[locorr]

I've had my panels on the roof for a while now. My meter box needs updating before I can get the panels connected. I'm short on funds so it will have to wait. The question is can I wire up a power point to the inverter and use the power while the sun shines. not sure what I'd wire it to, maybe the hot water and heat it in the middle of the day.

[bee utey]

I've had my panels on the roof for a while now. My meter box needs updating before I can get the panels connected. I'm short on funds so it will have to wait. The question is can I wire up a power point to the inverter and use the power while the sun shines. not sure what I'd wire it to, maybe the hot water and heat it in the middle of the day.

The grid-connect inverter will not produce any power until it is connected to a working mains supply. So unless it is wired to the live mains you will get nothing out of it. When it is you can withdraw its power from any power outlet in the house. I suggest you let the electrician do it. The DC voltage from a panel set is high enough to kill (150 + volts) so don't try to wire it to a regular inverter.

[richard4u2]

Well very interesting post

I have just got 11 grand back from tax and 5 grand surprise bonus so I am going for the full kit of solar for the house

Just about to do the deal

Ali


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
when you get a few quotes, go to places like jacar etc and see how much thier pannels etc cost

[p38arover]

As we have all seen today, Keneally's announcement of the reduction in the GFIT from 60 c/kWh to 20c/kWh also announced the death of the domestic solar industry.

AGL charge me 21.26 cents/kWh (incl GST) for the first 1553kWh then 22.99 c/kWh thereafter (up to what figure I don't know).

A 20c/kWh GFIT is, frankly, laughable.

If we weren't already on line, there is no way that I'd consider installation after today.

Oh, here's our PV Output graph and some pics of the install.


Production (graph updated daily). Run your mouse over the graph for more info:
PVOutput - p38arover's 3kW 3.040kW (http://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=309)

This is my install:
Picasa Web Albums - Ron Beckett - Solar (http://picasaweb.google.com.au/p38arover/Solar#)

(http://picasaweb.google.com.au/p38arover/Solar#)The 16 panels were put on the arrowed north-west facing roof area.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/10/246.jpg (http://lh5.ggpht.com/_Eq1C6wviZ5k/TKCRnUsH14I/AAAAAAAAAYw/n7kagrQsa48/Solar%20Panel%20Location.jpg)

Here's a pic of the solar output 8th Oct 2010. Pink = Ipv; Green = Iac; red/blue = PV kWDC

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/10/247.jpg (http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Eq1C6wviZ5k/TLb3begui1I/AAAAAAAAAdA/oq27DifVyCI/Image_20101008.jpg)

[BigTim]

Yep, once again political spin on the real facts behind electricity rate rises means Keneally blames solar for price rises, rather than the fact that successive governments bled the energy distributors dry of the necessary funds to perform ongoing maintenance and upgrades of the distribution network over the past decade or so.

Well, at least I managed to get around all my potential clients who were thinking about their quotes and get them signed up before the deadline....never seen so many undecided customers make a decision on the spot that quickly before.

So, couple of months work for myself and the apprentice, then I suspect we'll be looking for work other than solar.....what a farce.

How on earth can they justifiy paying less for solar energy exported to the grid (especially at peak times, e.g. mid-afternoon) than what they are charging us for coal-fired?

Ah well, *Rant OFF*.

[PhilipA]

This scheme was always insane as Public Policy.
The nail in the coffin was the $640 per tonne abatement cost.

It was fine for the individual so enjoy it while you can.

BTW the cost of coal generated electricity is about 5 to 6 cents per kw from the generator not 20 not 60.
Regards Philip A

[Tombie]

Our 5kW system hits the roof tomorrow!

We will get $0.52 per kWh we "upload" and pay $0.26 per kWh down (peak rate)

Based on our recent power bills - we will make approx. $4000.00 profit annually at current rate.

Add to this all the power saving items were fitting at home and it should improve over this year.

Going to full Led lighting in house, shed and games room. Efficient appliances everywhere and next step is a disconnect from Mains water to reduce water costs...

Will post pics of solar tomorrow.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[bee utey]

Our 5kW system hits the roof tomorrow!

We will get $0.52 per kWh we "upload" and pay $0.26 per kWh down (peak rate)

Based on our recent power bills - we will make approx. $4000.00 profit annually at current rate.

Add to this all the power saving items were fitting at home and it should improve over this year.

Going to full Led lighting in house, shed and games room. Efficient appliances everywhere and next step is a disconnect from Mains water to reduce water costs...

Will post pics of solar tomorrow.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Great stuff! The single biggest drop in our house consumption was when we replaced the Fishy&Paymore cyclic defrost fridge/freezer with a Vestfrost fridge-only and a tuckerbox freezer. We haven't had an electricity bill for 3 years with a 1.5kW system so yours should rock & roll.

[rovercare]

Great stuff! The single biggest drop in our house consumption was when we replaced the Fishy&Paymore cyclic defrost fridge/freezer with a Vestfrost fridge-only and a tuckerbox freezer. We haven't had an electricity bill for 3 years with a 1.5kW system so yours should rock & roll.

Noone home in the day at your place!

[bee utey]

Noone home in the day at your place!

Nup, I work from home, have lots of windows, wood heater, kitchen skylight, gas cooking, solar heat pump HWS, led lights. My job is mainly spanner work, no heavy machinery, occasional machining cutting & welding. Drills are 12V charged off my backup solar system.


and no plasma screen TV or monster a/c system.


and the computer is switched off unless I am at it!


Like I said the F&P fridge went out, it used to run up 4kWh/day on its own, the new fridge about 0.7, the freezer about the same. Oh and the Adelaide Hills climate is the best in the world.:p

[p38arover]

My system has been operating for just over a year. On Christmas Day the inverter failed and that took three weeks to get replaced (Xmas isn't a good time for a failure).

Whilst I've been monitoring the power usage and PV generation using EnviR current cost meters, and also the PV output using software looking at the inverter, I've had to do my logging to the PVOutput site by hand.

However, I finally have live monitoring of my solar generation up and running.

See p38arover's 3kW 3.040kW | Live Output (http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=309&sid=271) for live production and p38arover's 3kW 3.040kW (http://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?id=309&sid=271) for historical data.

BTW, AGL pay me 68 cents/kWh for the power I provide to the grid.

[bee utey]

Sad to hear your inverter blew up, what brand was it?

My Sunny-Boy inverter has produced nearly 6400kWh over 3 1/4 years peaking at 12kWh a day under ideal conditions near the solstice, usually around 10/day. The tracker has paid for itself, I think. :)

[p38arover]

Mine's a Sunny Roo SR4000TLi, Jilden. It's sold under several labels, e.g., Solar King. The PV system has generated nearly 4,500 kWh (worth about $3060) so far.

Several on the Whirlpool forum have said they have replaced a number of them - which is not encouraging.

[rovercare]

Mine's a Sunny Roo SR4000TLi, Jilden. It's sold under several labels, e.g., Solar King. The PV system has generated nearly 4,500 kWh (worth about $3060) so far.

Several on the Whirlpool forum have said they have replaced a number of them - which is not encouraging.

Bloke I was working with was whining about his sunny boy needing replacement and taking ages, I was surprised as they are excellent to deal with and seldom fail, turns out it was a sunny roo:D

I put on a second hand, backtraded 5kw sunny boy, he upgraded to 15kw, I'm confident in them to buy it, it had done 2353kw/hrs in a year, now 3656 since I fitted it at home, good units

I'm doing quite alot of warranty work, solis relabeled inverters, a bad batch of 1500! Not that I mind, $85 for the initial and $70/hr including traveling plus gst, some are a 5 hour return trip

Lots of horror stories with cheap components

[p38arover]

I've heard the Sunny Boy and SMA are good.

I was talking to a fellow forum member yesterday and he's had 3 inverters thus far. I don't know the brands.

Further to my earlier post, I have live monitoring of my solar generation and power usage up and running.

See p38arover's 3kW 3.040kW | Live Output (http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=309&sid=271) for live production and p38arover's 3kW 3.040kW (http://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?id=309&sid=271) for historical data

Run your cursor over the graph for more details.

The temp graph is that of the inverter during the day and the computer room at night so it has little value so I may remove it. However, the recorded temps in the list are the daily ambient min/max downloaded automatically from the BOM data for Penrith (one can set that to anywhere).

I use the data directly from the inverter for upload and I use an EnviR current cost meter to monitor the power taken from the grid.

I am on gross metering.

[fraser130]

I've heard the Sunny Boy and SMA are good.

I was talking to a fellow forum member yesterday and he's had 3 inverters thus far. I don't know the brnads.





brnads Ron?

Cold nuts?

:-)

[p38arover]

brnads Ron?

Cold nuts?

:-)

Fat fingers. :)

I saw it afterwards.

[fraser130]

Sorry Ron, I just couldn't help it!:angel:

Fraser

[Bytemrk]

I've heard the Sunny Boy and SMA are good.



I've got an SMA Ron and while I have only had it in place for about 4 months, it seems to just tick away and do what it should.

I have significant morning shade that will be mainly sorted out once my neighbour, the tree lopper and I get our acts together, but I couldnt be happier with the output considering.

Bytemrk's Powerhouse 5.000kW | Statistics (http://pvoutput.org/statistic.jsp?id=4687&sid=3820)



Further to my earlier post, I have live monitoring of my solar generation and power usage up and running.

See p38arover's 3kW 3.040kW | Live Output (http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=309&sid=271) for live production and p38arover's 3kW 3.040kW (http://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?id=309&sid=271) for historical data

Run your cursor over the graph for more details.

The temp graph is that of the inverter during the day and the computer room at night so it has little value so I may remove it. However, the recorded temps in the list are the daily ambient min/max downloaded automatically from the BOM data for Penrith (one can set that to anywhere).

I use the data directly from the inverter for upload and I use an EnviR current cost meter to monitor the power taken from the grid.

I am on gross metering.

How accurate do you find the current cost meter? I've been meaning to set one up.

Mark

[p38arover]

I've got an SMA Ron and while I have only had it in place for about 4 months, it seems to just tick away and do what it should.

I have significant morning shade that will be mainly sorted out once my neighbour, the tree lopper and I get our acts together, but I couldnt be happier with the output considering.

Bytemrk's Powerhouse 5.000kW | Statistics (http://pvoutput.org/statistic.jsp?id=4687&sid=3820)



How accurate do you find the current cost meter? I've been meaning to set one up.

Mark

Hi Mark.

I've seen you posting on Whirlpool.

After getting my solar system I found that I may not have made a great choice in brands. SMA would have been better. Ah well. If it lasts 3 years, it will have paid itself off.

Re the EnviR, it's accurate enough for my purposes. I wouldn't put a percentage value on it but...

I've been recording my meter readings every morning since the solar system was installed. Noting the EnviR daily readings are for the 24 hours starting/ending at midnight and my readings are taken around 8am and can be for the 24 hours 8am/8am or 9am/8am/7am or whatever time I get up (so one can expect a slight variation between them) the two have been pretty close. Obviously, some days they differ, especially if air con has been used during the night.

As you can see I am tracking my consumption on PVOutput with the EnviR. For the price I think they are worth it. I have two. I was using one for consumption and the other for generation.

I need to do some work to reduce my standing consumption overnight. It's a bit higher than normal at the moment as I'm using my desktop PC for monitoring and it consumes too much power. I have to get the software working on the old laptop again and it can run 24/7.

[p38arover]

I have significant morning shade that will be mainly sorted out once my neighbour, the tree lopper and I get our acts together, but I couldnt be happier with the output considering.

I see what you mean (no location info contained in pics - copies of screen shots):

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=43509&stc=1&d=1329019443


http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=43508&stc=1&d=1329019311

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=43507&stc=1&d=1329019311

[Bytemrk]

Yep,

It is significant... but I knew about it before I commited to solar. We would have done the tree first - but the Vic goverment changed the rules - so to qualify for the better rebate we did the big rush and got the panels up and will do the tree shortly.

We managed to get in on the Premium feed in by about 3 days :D.

It's nice to get electricity bills where they owe me rather than visa versa.

Also makes the impact of future power increases far less intimidating.

[p38arover]

Mine doesn't get any shading but it faces north-west.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/981.jpg

[Bytemrk]

I was hoping to put mine all in one block like yours.

But as you can see - I have a flu in the way (It's from a wood heater - so we decided it was too much grief to move.)

Thats why I ended up with 5 panels on the front as well.

North west on yours should still work far better than some I have seen around!

It seems the Solar industry is worse than the used cars when it comes to sharks..

[p38arover]

North west on yours should still work far better than some I have seen around!

I get my best production at 2pm.

I assume you've looked at the poor installs on Whirlpool. I cannot understand how a solar installer can fit the panels to a south-facing roof (unless he's in the Northern hemisphere!).

[rovercare]

Mine doesn't get any shading but it faces north-west.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/981.jpg

That's fine <10% loss,

[Chops]

Reopening this thread because I'm looking for a few answers.

I see a few of you have had solar panels placed on your roof :D (At least I hope its a smiling matter ;))

So, Im way down here in Victoria (SE Melb), and obviously, not as sunny as what you guys have up NSW/QLD etc :(
We were looking at getting a system installed about 18-24 months ago, but cash flow did'nt let us at the time :mad:
We had a quote done a few days ago, seems good :D
What I'm most interested in, is the final outcome, in real terms. We get rather large power bills, between $4-500, so we're looking at either a # or 5kw system.
So now that you've had your systems in for a while, how are you finding your bills, or lack of I guess, if all has gone well, (which I hope it has for you).

For us, the system being installed, will obviously be there to work for us now, but also, we will be renting the house out whilst we travel in a few years time. I'm not sure how we will work this when the time comes. Anyone else in this situation?
So, any and all outcomes are welcomed. :D

[Mick_Marsh]

Chops, have a chat to John. He'll tell you all about it.
Solar hot water is a better investment. Solar power only saves well nowdays if you are using in the day whilst generating in the day. You get paid about 8c per kwh. You pay, what, 30c per kwh.

[Vern]

We have 4.56kw with shading from mid arvo, in summer we are generally in credit, winter we have bigger bills than your paying now, but we are high energy users, and we only have electricity, no as in our area. We are on the 30cent feed in tarrif though.
Next house will be off grid!:). (Oh and my company installs solar for part of our business)

What system are you looking at? ( feel free to pm if you like)

[Vern]

I also agree with mick

[Chops]

Solar My Home is the company we've just spoken to.

He reckons we'll basically have no bill. ???

[Mick_Marsh]

Your house would use about 15kwh per day.
To offset the power, you would have to be selling 60kwh per day.
Assuming 8 hours at an average of 50% efficiency for the year, that would be a 15kwh system.
Then there is the connection charges
I know someone who has 15kwh of panels on their house and garage. They still have a sizable energy bill. Not as big as mine but definitely not zero.
I also know someone who is owed money from the energy company. She gets paid 60c per kwh and only uses an energy efficient light at night and household appliances through the day. No TV or computers.

[Vern]

At 8c feed in tarrif, there is no way you will virtually' have no bill, gotta watch these solar salesmen, worse than a used car salesman.
Couple of questions,
What size system are you looking at?
How many kwh are you averaging per day? (Will say on your bill)

[Chops]

Was looking at the 3kw unit for the moment.

And I'll have to find a bill to get those figures. I'm at work now, so won't be till later tonight. I'll also see if the feed in tariffs written on the quote. I don't think it is from memory, so I might have to make a phone call to clarify that bit.

[rovercare]

These days with an .08c feed in tariff, the viability depends on a few things

Every customer of mine now gets a wattson energy meter, this will data log and show real time display on whats happening in your home

You need to manage your electricity consumption to get a good return on your investment, this tool allow you to do so, salesmen will tell you otherwise and the general public will usually be happy to see a reduction in their bill and ignore the fact the payback is 10+years on their outlay or it is cheap nasty rubbish and will fail priot to their payback

If you have a $300/Qtr bill, don't bother with solar, just pay your bill and maybe spend some money on energy efficient devices....not lighting, that's a bit of a farce when it comes to return on your dosh

The people who really benefit are large consumers, swimming pool/spa owners or push button stay (A/C on at 26*)at home mums, I have found

Keep in mind, most electricity consumption is by heating or cooling, that's air (think A/C) food goods (fridge freezer/s) water (HWS, pool, spa) clothes dryer etc, an energy efficient light that operates 2 hrs a day, is hardly a saving

You need to shift as many of these loads onto the time you are producing solar and try to get it to match your production, to really benefit

Numerous people I have sold and fitted systems to their houses do a fantastic job and are achieving paypacks downs as low as 3.5 years and my systems arent the cheapest, generally the cheapest for the products used though....no salesmen mark up

And of course there is others, whom paybacks are more likely 5-6-7 years as they are not as disciplined as they thought they would be with manageing the show, but they are still all very happy

My advice is no salesmen will tell you the truth, their is heaaaaaps of dodgy installers and dodgy gear, heeaaapppps of price gouging, I did alot sub contracting to probably a dozen or so mobs, even more doing repairs for others, some of the installs you see and prices people pay for their gear makes you want to cry

Try and use someone who is extemely reputable, preferably an electrical contractor who does solar himself, that way you will get the better price and hopefully if he is local to you, will care enough to some back if there is any issue down the track, regardless of time

Oh another aside to making your energy management work nobody tells you, is when you make a solar deal with your retailer, its likely the peak rate of electricity will also move up a few cents (if not it soon will) and then if you mismanage to much, you pay more peak rate, which is eating into your return on your investment

Oh, don't mess with a small system thinking upgrading is ever a good idea, it will just cost you more in the long run

Hopefully start work on 100KW system on a customer of mine when I am back in oz:) obviously not a house

[SuperMono]

In densely populated suburbs with high take up of online (non-storage) solar, chances are you won't get anywhere near quoted export figures anyway.
Keeping it simple, you can't all locally push power into a network equally.
House with the best connection wins on average.

Doesn't mean don't use solar, just means go into it with your eyes open.

[rovercare]

In densely populated suburbs with high take up of online (non-storage) solar, chances are you won't get anywhere near quoted export figures anyway.
Keeping it simple, you can't all locally push power into a network equally.
House with the best connection wins on average.

Doesn't mean don't use solar, just means go into it with your eyes open.

Ooooh, could you ellaborate on this theory please?

[123rover50]

Perhaps someone could tell us how it works too.
We are on a rural property and are the only one connected to the step down transformer on a pole inside our boundary.
The bloke that hooked us up could not explain to us how the power we generate goes back into the grid through this transformer.
The voltage on the other side is so many thousand, so how does a mere 250 odd push back in to the high voltage side and then get used by someone else?

[bee utey]

Perhaps someone could tell us how it works too.
We are on a rural property and are the only one connected to the step down transformer on a pole inside our boundary.
The bloke that hooked us up could not explain to us how the power we generate goes back into the grid through this transformer.
The voltage on the other side is so many thousand, so how does a mere 250 odd push back in to the high voltage side and then get used by someone else?
Transformer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Mick_Marsh]

Perhaps someone could tell us how it works too.
We are on a rural property and are the only one connected to the step down transformer on a pole inside our boundary.
The bloke that hooked us up could not explain to us how the power we generate goes back into the grid through this transformer.
The voltage on the other side is so many thousand, so how does a mere 250 odd push back in to the high voltage side and then get used by someone else?
The voltage is transformed up to the higher voltage through the transformer.
Don't look at it as voltage, look at it as power. If you are putting 4kw back in, that's 4kw through the transformer (ignoring the losses in the transformer). Where that 4kw is measured, is at your installation your side of the transformer.
A kw your side of the transformer is a kw the other side of the transformer (ignoring the losses in the transformer).

[Mick_Marsh]

In densely populated suburbs with high take up of online (non-storage) solar, chances are you won't get anywhere near quoted export figures anyway.
Keeping it simple, you can't all locally push power into a network equally.
House with the best connection wins on average.

Doesn't mean don't use solar, just means go into it with your eyes open.
I think you may be getting a little confused. What I think you are referring to is this:
The overhead (or underground) infrastructure in your street has a certain capacity.
What has been happening is people have been putting whopping great solar installations pumping power into that infrastructure to the point it can take no more.
Then, more people in the street want to connect solar installations to that infrastructure only to be told they can't because it is at capacity.
So, in some cases, first in best dressed.

[slug_burner]

I think you may be getting a little confused. What I think you are referring to is this:
The overhead (or underground) infrastructure in your street has a certain capacity.
What has been happening is people have been putting whopping great solar installations pumping power into that infrastructure to the point it can take no more.
Then, more people in the street want to connect solar installations to that infrastructure only to be told they can't because it is at capacity.
So, in some cases, first in best dressed.

I don't know that there is enough roof space to get to this situation. Most people struggle to get 5 kW systems on their roof in suburbia. That is just enough to do two fast boil kettles. Then again in the old days of satellite coverage of the Ali boxing matches, the grid had trouble coping with people putting on the kettle and the toaster between rounds.

I thought that I read somewhere that the line voltage was being pushed up as a result of solar installations trying to push power into the grid. I don't know if this is another measure of capacity.

[Mick_Marsh]

I don't know that there is enough roof space to get to this situation. Most people struggle to get 5 kW systems on their roof in suburbia. That is just enough to do two fast boil kettles. Then again in the old days of satellite coverage of the Ali boxing matches, the grid had trouble coping with people putting on the kettle and the toaster between rounds.
Maybe I wasn't clear. You're right, one house won't do it. A number of houses will.
The average house would use about 15kwh per day. If we assume a 5kw system will produce it's rating in eight hours (I know it won't but I'm using that as an example) that is 40kwh for the day. i.e. the house is producing way more than it uses. Now, if every house on the street is pumping into the grid way more than it uses for the day in that short period of time, that is overloading the infrastructure in the street.


I thought that I read somewhere that the line voltage was being pushed up as a result of solar installations trying to push power into the grid. I don't know if this is another measure of capacity.
Yep. Voltage is part of the equation. If lots of power is pumped into the grid, the voltage goes up. Ideally it should be kept between 238v and 242v. The power supply authority regulates this from their end. But, I don't think they can control all these solar systems feeding into the grid, so, if there are lots of them feeding lots of power into the grid on a nice sunny day and overloading the system, there are going to be appliances burning out. Don't panic! I'm sure there are safeguards in place and one of them is to not have too many solar panels feeding into the infrastructure.

[PhilipA]

My understanding is that this is the reason that power distributors want to charge solar providers for network upgrades.
They apparently will have to fit resistor banks to transformers with switching systems,and propose to pass the cost to panel owners, as the expenditure is a direct result of solar panel input.


Regards Philip A