Ex-Army trailers

[Cap]

Im looking at off-road trailers at the moment, specifically with the idea to build one myself. However, I would consider buying an ex-army trailer if one is available - and then updating it with exc brakes etc.

Anyone know where I can buy these trailers from? Anyone got one for sale, or know of one for sale? What price do these go for?

They look like this I believe:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/12/109.jpg

[Shonky]

G'Day Stooge.

That is a "No. 5 Trailer".

Expect to pay upwards of a grand for a good one, although there are some around who have picked them up cheaper.

It is worth noting a few things about these trailers:

1) The track width is the same as a Series LR - different to 110/Defender etc.
2) They have a lunette ring in place of a ball hitch (although this may be preferable depending on what you are using it for)
3) They are unbraked
4) They have quite inadequate lights
5) They are wired with 12 core to suit the 12 pin plug
6) Unless modified, they have no tailgate!
7) They are quite sought after and collectable in standard form.


As a REMLR member, I am inclined to implore you to not butcher a nice old Army trailer. If you are capable of building your own, it will be cheaper, and more suited to what you need. ie, Better. ;)

[pawl]

In the Trading Post a there is one for sale in Lara Vic. he's asking a bit too much for it though, $2500.
Off Road Aluminium Heavy Duty Trailer - Trading Post (http://tinyurl.com/y9bhx29)

[Shonky]

Not such a stretch Pawl... The last one I saw on eBay went for $2750! :o

[Cap]

The fact is, ive priced the parts to build a tough trailer, and to be honest, these things are worth the 2k price (as long as they arent completely rusted out). If I get one, I plan to just change the hitch, fix up the wiring and build a lid for it. I also like the idea of owning a piece of Australia too :cool:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

The fact is, ive priced the parts to build a tough trailer, and to be honest, these things are worth the 2k price (as long as they arent completely rusted out). If I get one, I plan to just change the hitch, fix up the wiring and build a lid for it. I also like the idea of owning a piece of Australia too :cool:You would be far better looking for a Track "Tactical Trailer".

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/02/1639.jpg

They have: Tailgate.
Same track width as a Defender.
Longer wheelbase than No.5 making for easier backing with long wheelbase vehicles.
Coil Springs.
Brakes.

If you do decide to butcher a no 5 trailer. A mate has a treg hitch that will replace the lunette. I am sure he will swap.

Diana

[Cap]

You would be far better looking for a Track "Tactical Trailer".

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/02/1639.jpg

They have: Tailgate.
Same track width as a Defender.
Longer wheelbase than No.5 making for easier backing with long wheelbase vehicles.
Coil Springs.
Brakes.

If you do decide to butcher a no 5 trailer. A mate has a treg hitch that will replace the lunette. I am sure he will swap.

Diana

How much do these go for tho? And are there any available? I would look at these too if theres any around.

[malleefowl]

I'd like one of those too
How about a Sankey /Is their wheelbase compatable with a Defender ?
Thanks,
Mary

[Cap]

Thanks for you replies. I have however, bought a No.5 :D :D :D

So when I have it, ill post up some pics. For my purposes I think I would be more than happy with it.

Cheers,

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Thanks for you replies. I have however, bought a No.5 :D :D :D

<snip>So are you interested in the Treg fitting? It is a straight swap with the lunette on the No.5.

[Cap]

So are you interested in the Treg fitting? It is a straight swap with the lunette on the No.5.

Not sure, was thinking of using as is (buy the pintel) and just use it... but not sure just yet what to do. Ill let you know when I have a look at the options :D ;)

[Bigbjorn]

Not sure, was thinking of using as is (buy the pintel) and just use it... but not sure just yet what to do. Ill let you know when I have a look at the options :D ;)

I now prefer the pintle and lunette over any other coupling. Easy on and off, articulation aplenty.

[Cap]

Im not convinced with Treggs, the poly blocks are an issue for me (already seen one starting to develop lots of surface cracks! :eek:)

Question is, what Pintle Hook can I buy to suit the trailer?

Im thinking this would suit... 5 tonne pintle hook as a one piece 50mm receiver arm to suit the LR hayman/reece receiver?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/02/1571.jpg

Also, i read that the trailer should be level with the car, in other words, with pintle arrangement the trailer has to be level? Why is this, what happens if the trailer is slightly taller so trailer faces forward?

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Pintle and lunette are a very strong towing option when travelling forward although the knock, knock, knocking with power-on and backing-off can be annoying.

Where pintle-lunette couplings have their failures is with backing, particularly with rough and sloping ground. The directional stability is variable and with the short wheelbase of the No.5 it can be difficult to reverse into narrow driveways. At my Sydney home in the side drive, I have 5 different sideways slopes 6 different grades and at each change in slope or grade the No.5 changes direction with the most significant one being the rise up from the kerb. It often takes me 5 or more back and forths to get the trailer into place. It is easier to uncouple the trailer and walk it back in, except when loaded which is when the directional instability is worst. In the same driveway, I can back-in my ball-coupling car float in a single movement leaving 3" on one side and 18" on the other.

The other issue is that most No.5 have their lunette fixed and they rotate the pintle. This is the result of research done by the military which determined the safest configuration is to have the pintle rotate and fixed lunettes. This makes most pintles available to the public unsuitable for off-bitumen use with a No.5.


<snip>
Also, i read that the trailer should be level with the car, in other words, with pintle arrangement the trailer has to be level? Why is this, what happens if the trailer is slightly taller so trailer faces forward?All trailer couplings should be level with the towing vehicle (trailer chassis horizontal with ground). This allows the maximum/equal travel with changes in aspect between tow and trailer (ramp-over etc). It is why companies like Hayman-Reece make variable height couplings.

With pintle-lunette couplings the pintle should also be vertical, not sloping up or down. The pintle in the post above would be incorrect to use with an ARB step bar on a RRc or a receiver on a Disco where the receiver angel slopes down towards the front.

Diana

[Cap]

So what your saying is that because both pintle and lunette do not rotate on its axis, then, in a givenarticulation scenario, where trailer and vehicle are X, you could have binding occuring?

So what have others done to recitify this? I know you mentioned the tregg, but not everyone has replaced their pintle/lunette with an aftermarket hitch.

The hayman/reece receiver on my Disco does not point downwards, possibly sighlty upwards due to spring lift (rear being taller than front). So are we saying that the above pintle wouldnt be suited for these 2 reasons (not axis twist and incorrect receiver angle)?

Cheers,

PS: I know very little about pintle/lunette set up, hence the questions :)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

So what your saying is that because both pintle and lunette do not rotate on its axis, then, in a givenarticulation scenario, where trailer and vehicle are X, you could have binding occuring? ...<snip>More than binding, in an off-bitumen situation with opposite articulation between trailer and vehicle the limitation in coupling rotation could cause a roll-over. Usually this would be the trailer but given the coil springs on a Disco and leaf springs on the No.5 the Disco is likely to roll before the trailer. The Army restricted the use of No.5 trailers behind Perentie 110s for this reason.


<snip>... So what have others done to recitify this? I know you mentioned the tregg, but not everyone has replaced their pintle/lunette with an aftermarket hitch. ...<snip>They purchase off-road trailers, usually with Treg hitches (although I personally do not like them in on-road situations) designed to be towed by coil sprung vehicles.

What ever hitch you use one element of the pair must rotate, the Army research suggests the pintle. If you don't have a rotating pintle (or ball etc) then the lunette must rotate.


<snip> ...The hayman/reece receiver on my Disco does not point downwards, possibly sighlty upwards due to spring lift (rear being taller than front). So are we saying that the above pintle wouldnt be suited for these 2 reasons (not axis twist and incorrect receiver angle)?

Cheers,

PS: I know very little about pintle/lunette set up, hence the questions :) Perhaps my description was not good. When I suggested the downward pointing receiver, I was talking about the perspective when you insert the coupling to the receiver. The receiver is higher at the rear of the vehicle with the forward most part of the receiver lower.

A pintle in this alignment would be preferable to one on the opposite slope. I have a pintle fitting for my ARB bar on my RRc that mounts a bolt on pintle horizontal and at the correct height for a particular plant trailer. It would not be correct height for my No.5, although I could possibly reposition the pintle on the assembly by drilling new holes.

If your No.5's lunette does not rotate, then to use it with a non-rotating pintle you must remove the rotation locking plates from inside the lunette's mounting flange.

[Cap]

Thanks for that. I just found some suggestions on the forum (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/remlr-items-wanted/66462-pintle-hitch-nato-hhitch-2.html) that talks about having the Lunette rotate :)

Still not sure what you mean about the pintle position tho, ill re-read your post again.

Thanks so much for your input in this.

[Cap]

Going from the posts above, I am unsure what pintle to buy. I understand that they vehicle and trailer need to be level (as per Lotz-A-Landies posts), so im looking at these:

Pintle receiver arm (for hayman/reece) allows for 4 positions. Click on "Pintle Hook and Couplings (CM510) 6 HOLE PINTLE RECEIVER ARM"
TRAILER PARTS & SPARES (http://www.etrailerparts.com.au/index1.html?c297.html&1)

Pintle 5t bolts onto receiver above. Click on "Pintle Hook and Couplings (PH-003) 5 TONNE PINTLE HOOK"
TRAILER PARTS & SPARES (http://www.etrailerparts.com.au/index1.html?c297.html&1)

Will this suit the lunette on the No.5? Can someone confirm before I purchase these as I really have no idea if these are suitable.

Cheers,

[scrambler]

The No5 is designed to be pulled behind a IIa with a further 1 inch of suspension raise. This is pretty close to the standard height of a Defender, but then the hitch-receiver is lower than the rear crossmember. You will need a 50mm hitch with a plate allowing the pintle to be about the same height as the rear crossmember.

While being level is nice, I've been happy enough towing a Workshop (No 5 chassis with inbuilt timber workbenches and a raised canopy) behind a Pajero, and the hitch would have been sitting about 50mm lower than design. Not ideal but good enough.

Have a look at the REMLR info and get the Lunette ring rotating again (reverse the modification) is my suggestion. Mine rotates, I use a non-rotating Pintle. AFAIK the reason for the rotating Pintle was to allow the LR to move equipment with fixed Lunettes i.e. field artillery.

The big issue with backing a No.5 is the short drawbar. If at all possible, don't back it. The Army didn't design them for backing, they designed them for maximum mobility in the forward direction.

[Cap]

Thanks scrambler. I have purchased the two units as mentioned above in my post... so the receiver should give me some flexibility to attach the trailer at the correct height. My Disco has 245x75's and a 2" lift, so hopefully wont be too much more to get it right :)

Ohh and I know, the :rulez: still apply re pics, that will come soonish :cool:

[C H T]

The lunette can be made to swivle by reversing the locking plate nest to the retaining nut on the inside end of the ring assembly. I have just converted one on a workshop trailer that I bought last year and am now rebuilding. Towed a No5 across the Simpson last year - pintle hook fixed lunette swivelling with absolutely zero problems. Don't forget to grease the pintle hook and ring, and also the apply grease to both hook and ring shaft via the grease nipples. if you don't grease the ring and hook the wear rate will be very high when towing in the bush - I speak from firsthand experience.

After the Simpson etc I would not consider converting the coupling to a Treg or similar.

Another point on the No5s - the distance from the centre of the tralier axle to the centre of the rear axle of a Defender is almost exactly the same as the wheel base of the vehicle which helps keep the trailer whseels in the tracks of the main vehicle when cornering. We fitted a wider axle to the trailer to match the track of the Defender. We also fitted shockies which really helped on couragations.

C H T

[Cap]

Thats good to hear an actual experience using the pintle set up.. expecially re stability etc. Thanks for the grease tip also, will certainly apply!

I will in future put on elec brakes, so at that stage ill change to same track axel too.

Cheers,

[Lotz-A-Landies]

<snip>.... AFAIK the reason for the rotating Pintle was to allow the LR to move equipment with fixed Lunettes i.e. field artillery.
.... <snip>Yes that may have been the original reason for having NATO compliant rotating hitches. However most trailers built for the Army in the 1960's and 70's had rotating lunettes. After having a number of roll-overs the Army investigated the situation and fitted locking plates inside the No.5s lunette flange to fix the lunette from rotating. They then removed the locking tab fromm all in-service pintles on the remaining Land Rovers, to prevent them from being locked.

The Army didn't make this decision because someone thought that it would be better to increase the risk of falls when people tried to stand on now rotating pintles when they got out of Land Rovers. They made the decision because as a result of the investigations it was found that the best configuration was to have the pintle rotate and the lunette to be fixed.

If you can't have a rotating pintle, then the next best option is to have a rotating lunette instead.

[Aaron IIA]

If you jackknife a trailer with a rotating ring, the ring will drop down on the pintile hook, with the ring now in a verticle plane. When you attempt to straighten the vehicle/trailer combination, the ring may not re-align, preventing the trailer from straightening out. This may result in damage to the trailer, hitch, or vehicle. I have seen bent rear cross members resulting from this. When straightening from a jackknife situation, always check that the rotating ring is aligning itself properly.

If you jackknife a trailer with a fixed ring and a rotating pintle hook, there will not be a problem.

The best solution is to leave the trailer with a fixed ring, buy a military style pintle hook, and bolt this to an adaptor that fits in a standard receiver.

Aaron.

[procrastination inc]

there are several trailers lined up at bandiana where the disposal auctions are run. All seem to have leaf spring suspension.

I'll post more when the auction is announced

[Cap]

We bought two, but now my bro is selling his one (under markets) due to the fact he needs to make too many mods to suit he work. But he said that it tows fantastically with the pintle setup, and they are beautifully balanced and he can easily push them as if they were feather weight.

Mine is also with him at the moment, looking forward to getting it down to Tassie and using it for camping trips :D :D

[DT-P38]

As usual... Dumbo here is doing the bulk of the research after the 'big money' is outlayed... anyway, it appears my best option to start safely towing one of the No5's around is to source a rotating military style pintle and get it attached to a fabricated height adjustable HR receiver.

Have seen e-bay has numerous fixed pintles for sale but wondering if there is an easy fix like donate some funds to an ADF stores staff sargents (ironically, dad's last job in the army) xmas party or something!

Surely these rotating versions must be available around the traps? Perhaps another member would like to part with an original one?

Any comments/direction appreciated.

Dave

[Dutchie10]

Im looking at off-road trailers at the moment, specifically with the idea to build one myself. However, I would consider buying an ex-army trailer if one is available - and then updating it with exc brakes etc.

Anyone know where I can buy these trailers from? Anyone got one for sale, or know of one for sale? What price do these go for?

They look like this I believe:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/12/109.jpg

Hello Stooge,

I have a # 5 Land rover trailer with a Hayman reace hitch for sale if you are still looking, All new springs and bearing's done by the ADF 5 years ago, and it has now sat with limited use as I work away, PM if intreasted to purchase.

Dutchie10

[Chucaro]

He have one now ;)

[back_in]

Hi
A little bit of useless information
some 45 years ago (late 60's) when I was a Member of the 43 Railway Sqn we had a very cold camp at the Ballarat Airport in the middle of winter.
Because our job in real life was to play trains, it was a something that had to happen.
To keep our selves amused we coupled 23 odd trailers behind a poor old 2A and pulled it down the run way and back.
The turning circle to come back was about the area of a football oval
I know as it was my idea to do it so I had to prove it could be done
Once you get a couple of trailers moving they get the next going
the slack between each was the similar to a actual train
It was slow but it worked
the most useful task these trailers provided the Army personal was providing the bung was in place the trailer made a wonderful ice box when full of ice and beer
cheers
Ian

[Mick_Marsh]

the most useful task these trailers provided the Army personal was providing the bung was in place the trailer made a wonderful ice box when full of ice and beer
Explains why they all have surface rust in the tub.

[DT-P38]

Will no longer be selling our 2nd one. It's value to me just grew immensely!