2nd battery for 07 D3

[51jay]

asking on behalf of a friend. Is there a specific battery to go in the allocated space in the D3 or is it just anything that will fit in

[WhiteD3]

Grumpy old man,

You could check out this thread http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-zone/88881-dual-battery-d3.html
or search the D3/D4 forum for the word "battery" in the thread heading. Been lots of discussion on this topic.

[CaverD3]

Traxside dual battery system and optima are a common choice. Biggest it will take is the 80ApH Varta (with some modification).

[bbyer]

I wanted to have an auxiliary battery that had the "stock" look - that is, used the Land Rover tie down bracket without modification, would fit under the plastic cover, and also be electrically similar to the main cranking battery; in other words, a cranking battery for high current draw starting purposes rather than a low amps long running battery suitable for a fridge or similar. It gets cold here in the Dominion, and starting in the winter is always a concern.

That meant that the battery would be a conventional lead acid rather than AGM or spiral; have recessed posts and a vent hole to hook up to a vent hose; also caps that could be removed to look at the fluid levels in the battery cells. (I like to do that at least once a year and most probably add some distilled water to top up, even though the battery is termed maintenance free.) I also preferred a black coloured case to match with the Interstate on the other side.

The Varta that I note is commonly used meets the above, (except colour), however I did not want to chip out the little angled fins at the front of the battery tray to get closer to the required length.

As such, the length of the battery at the bottom could not exceed about 10 inches (255 mm). Height wise, there is only about 8.25 inches (210 mm) available and width wise, the dimension is 6 7/8 inches (175 mm) with recessed post and the Euro top surface profile so as to fit the Land Rover bracket.

I found that the BCI (Battery Council International) Group 40R (DIN T6 sort of), was about the only battery that would easily fit in. If you look at most battery size charts, you will see that a Group 40R, Group 91, and T6 battery are all the same dimensions. I find that they are, sort of, but vary in the details. The 40R does not have any ridges at the bottom on the ends that stick out.

The BCI 91 does, and hence at the bottom, the length is close to 11 inches, (280 mm), whereas with the Group 40R, it only has ridges on the sides and hence the length is closer to 10 inches (255 mm).

Regarding height, both the batteries are similar, 6 7/8 inches (175 mm), which is about a 1/2" less high than the stock main cranking battery, 7 1/2 inches, (190 mm).

The reduction in height was OK with me as I did not want to grind away the sloping plastic nibs at the front of the battery tray. Instead, I set what would be called a battery spacer, a one inch (25 mm) high piece of plastic shipped with some short batteries to increase the height of a battery so it fits more vehicles. Anyway, from the battery shop, I obtained a 10 inch long x 7 inch wide x 1 inch high spacer, and set it on the tray, and then set the 40R on top of the spacer.

This raised the bottom of the battery above the angled nibs. I then had about 1/4" or more (5 mm) of free space between the end of the battery and the brake fluid container, and also a bit of free space at the front end of the case as well. In other words, not too bad a fit - both easy to install and remove.

This also meant that the height of the assembly was about 8 inches (200 mm) high, in other words, about 1/2 inch (10 mm) higher than the stock LR battery.

As such, the stock tie down bolts were too short. Here in Canada, metric is not too common so I was not able to easily source longer tie down bolts. The LR stock stainless steel bolts, (properly called Flange Bolts), were 150 mm and 180 mm long respectively. Locally I could order 200 mm stainless hex bolts, but not a 160 mm long one.

I considered ordering two only 200 mm at about $15.00 each, and then shortening one of them and threading same, but that seemed like not much fun. I also considered 6 mm threaded rod, but that does not look too nice. As such, I purchased two only 6 mm coupling nuts @ 50 cents each, suitable for connecting lengths of threaded rod together and set them at the bottom of the tray for the stock tie down rods to thread into. As the coupling nuts are about 18 mm tall, I ended up with the putting about 8 mm of washers under the the tie down bolts to take up the excess length. (I may yet spring for the 200 mm hex bolts).

Overall, the tie down looks good is secure, and the cover fits, however I do not have space for wing nuts re the battery post connectors - have to use proper length cap screws and all is well.

My initial intent was to use an Interstate 40R battery, however I ended up with a Deka 40R instead. Deka is a Pennsylvania USA battery manufacturer that markets under various private labels as well as its own.

With the battery selection and install figured out, I can now, once it warms up, complete the installation of the Traxide SC80-LR kit that I just received. Incidentally, it only took about five days for the kit to arrive from Tim in Queensland to here in the colonies, (Dominion of Canada), via the Royal Mail. Amazing what a couple of hundred years of practice by Her Majesties loyal servants can accomplish.

[sniegy]

Hi bbyer,

QUOTE
"That meant that the battery would be a conventional lead acid rather than AGM or spiral";

Just be careful depending on your applications, but the original battery is NOT a lead acid battery, but a "Lead Calcium" unit.

Cheers.

[bbyer]

Yes, I stand corrected.

Lead acid is an old term, and wrong to use these days with maintenance free batteries. Lead acid refers to the older batteries with the caps that require water all the time.

The newer Deka and Interstate batteries are what is termed a maintenance free unit with calcium grids, and on some, with I guess some silver mixed in - very little I presume, but enough to mention in the ads and yes, Lead Calcium is the correct name. Thanks.

[drivesafe]

What makes it even more difficult to distinguish between “standard” and Calcium/Calcium battery types, is that most ( if not all ) wet cell and maintenance free batteries have calcium in them.

From what I can gather, the difference is in both the alloys used and the construction of the battery types.

Older “standard” type wet cell batteries contain high amounts of antimony alloyed with lead, and newer “standard” type wet cell batteries contain a mixture of an Antimony Lead alloy in one plate and a Calcium Lead alloy in the other ( negative plate ).

BUT “standard” type wet cell batteries are also made using different construction techniques to that of Calcium/Calcium.

Now this will surprise you ( NOT ), Calcium/Calcium batteries are cheaper to manufacture.

There are genuine benefits to using either battery type but as cost rules the market place, Calcium/Calcium batteries are going to be the norm from now on in.

The benefits of Calcium/Calcium batteries are genuine and not just market hype. Benefits like taking up to 50% longer to self discharge and because of the way they are constructed that they gas 80% less than wet cell batteries and because of the methods used to reduce gassing, Calcium/Calcium batteries are far less effected by sulfation, one of the biggest killers of “standard” wet cell type batteries.

There is a strange phenomenon that Calcium/Calcium batteries do “suffer” from. Wet cell batteries can and are regularly charged to 100% in a vehicle but Calcium/Calcium batteries are extremely difficult to charge much beyond 95 to 97% SoC.

NOTE, this inability to fully charge Calcium/Calcium batteries does not seem to have any effect on their operating life span or to be very good at being cranking batteries.

But back to the original point, manufacturers need to adopt a much clearer way of marking what type of battery they are actually selling you.

[bbyer]

I recently completed the Traxide dual battery install in my LR3, (Canada LHD). While I note that everyone else seems to do the install in a couple of hours, I think it took me closer to a couple of weeks.

No fault of the kit however; it is just that with temperatures running in the -10C to -20C range, simple things take me longer outside. Actually most of the time was spent trying to figure out what battery to use.

Per my previous post, I wanted a cranking battery, (so I could self boost), so that suggested something similar to the Interstate cranking H7 that is already in the LR3 rather than the sort of high class AGM or spiral type that seems prevalent on the forum. I also like to be able to see into the individual cells and add distilled water if necessary - even to so called maintenance free.

I ended up with a BCI Group 40R battery from Deka, (made in Pennsylvania USA). It was about the electrically largest battery I could find that would mechanically fit and have the OEM look. To me that meant recessed battery posts and a top profile such that the supplied Land Rover OEM battery bracket would fit without any modification. The Group 40R is about 10.25" (260mm) long at the bottom and does not have any protruding tie down ridges on the ends; on the sides, yes, but not the ends.

The 40R is only about 7" (180mm) high, (H7 is 7 5/8” 190mm) which allowed me to insert a 1" (25mm) high battery spacer taken from a similar battery under the 40R to raise the unit above those angled nibs at the front bottom of the surround. (I did not want to try to grind them out at -20C and am afraid of weakening the plastic as well.) The spacer allows the battery to move forward and as such, there is about 1/4" (5mm) of free space between the end of the battery and the brake reservoir and also space at the front end for the vent hose.

I can still get the Land Rover cover on as the overall height of the battery and spacer just clears the underside of the cover. In the jpg’s, you will note that the battery cables are bolted to the underside of the battery post clamps - that is why.

If one grinds off the plastic nibs in the bottom of the LR surround, (and therefore no spacer on the bottom), it appears that the Varta 80 amp hour E12V75N or most other DIN 85605 (old) or H6 (less old) or BCI Group 48 battery will fit well also, and certainly provide more power than any of the BCI Group 40R (DIN T6) (EN 66LB) size. The thing to watch is for interferance caused by tie down ribs on the ends near the bottom of the case.

I also attached a jpg of the OEM cranking battery to show the 1/2" (10mm) hole that I drilled in the plastic surround to allow the cable from the 40R to access the H7 main battery and still allow the cover to latch on properly.

For the same reason, the Traxide relay case is mounted in the Aux battery surround at an angle to allow for cable space, and hence the cover to close.

I have attached labels to the case covers regarding the Aux battery installation as my LR3 is dealer serviced. Dual battery installs are a bit rare here in Alberta - well LR3's are rare, even at the LR dealership. Sports however are just about a pandemic.

One label on the Aux battery cover says that to disconnect the aux battery, unplug the Blue Anderson located by the Brake Reservoir.

As to why I chose the Traxide kit, www.traxide.com.au (http://www.traxide.com.au/) (five days by Royal Mail from Oz), my feeling is that the LR3 electrical system is "different" from most USA or Far East spec vehicles, (maybe all vehicles), and I think that whatever is in the Traxide relay box may just understand that.

I noted that not only does my Aux battery ground cable connect to a stud on the inside fender, the main battery does the same thing - none of that ground to the engine block stuff that is so common with lesser machines. As such, I think that difference in grounding philosophy means there are other more subtle differences that I neither know about nor understand. I think Traxide does.

The pdf attachments are of data that I found useful in my search for a battery that would fit OK and allow me to put the cover back on. The Caterpillar battery dimension pdf is the most useful of the bunch. It provides cross reference between US and EU battery sizes as well as shows profiles of the various available cases – even shows the ridges at the bottom sides and ends of the cases for each battery group; also the post layout and profile of the top surface of the battery.