The tide is turning?

[Scallops]

Distinguished Colleagues,

For those of us enlightened individuals that have always used Apple products,:p this SMH article might come as no surprise - but with the iPad iPhone iPod etc stuff, maybe Apple is making it's run? Maybe, "It's time"!

If you use Apple anything - this can only be a good thing I reckon.

Businesses trading BlackBerry for iPhone (http://www.smh.com.au/technology/enterprise/businesses-trading-blackberry-for-iphone-20100205-nhof.html)

Livin' the dream,

Scallops out.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

yes, well thats 3 of you,,,:p

[Scallops]

yes, well thats 3 of you,,,:p

:D And what a content, virus / malware / no anti everything software equipped trio we are too! ;)

[samuelclarke]

Mac user for 8 years and loved every minute of it. :D

Over the years I've had:
800MHz Titanium PowerBook G4
1GHz Titanium PowerBook G4 (wish I'd never sold this one :( - the Ti PB's were sweet!)
1.8GHz PowerMac G5
12" 867MHz PowerBook G4
15" 1.83GHz CoreDuo MacBook Pro
17" 2.16GHz CoreDuo MacBook Pro
15" 2.5GHz Core2Duo MacBook Pro (current Mac)

Hopefully they'll be giving the MacBook Pro's an upgrade soon as I'm wanting to get another 17" MBP...

Apple have got a strong enough base that they could easily grab a significant chunk of market share - which hopefully might translate to slightly cheaper prices...

[Ivan]

I must admit Macs are good machines. I work in the IT industry so most of my work is done on windoze machines. However, this weekend I purchased a new IMac for the wife to do her work on (Graphic design). I was amazed at how easy it all was. Simply took it out of the box plugged it in to the mains and attached a wire to the network port. Instant internet connection and it boots up much faster than any windows machine I use. next I plugged my PC monitor in to give her a dual screen set up and it just worked!!!! No messing about or buying extra graphic cards to handle dual monitors etc, it just works.
It's a very smart piece of kit and the mouse is amazing. It has a single button but can be configured to give a left and right mouse click. To scroll through the screen you simply stroke the mouse!!!!

Rgds

Ivan

[jonesy63]

iPhones are not secure and from a corporate perspective - I do not want my company's data sitting on them! It is a single-threaded, consumer-focused device - with security a very late afterthought. No AV package for them (being single-threaded), and there is no way to check if they have been jail-broken before allowing connection to corporate network!

For those that actually believe there has never been malware for Macs/Linux - dream on!

[Captain_Rightfoot]

iPhones are not secure and from a corporate perspective - I do not want my company's data sitting on them! It is a single-threaded, consumer-focused device - with security a very late afterthought. No AV package for them (being single-threaded), and there is no way to check if they have been jail-broken before allowing connection to corporate network!

For those that actually believe there has never been malware for Macs/Linux - dream on!

Here we go again. :D:D

Name the malware. Go on! What exactly are the threats to my iphone? There has never been a mac os X virus that has been able to exists and replicate in the wild. Give me an example of one!

Apple can't win with you guys. They lock it down and you all complain... people jailbreak them to make have more control and you complain...

[feral]

Mac user for 8 years and loved every minute of it. :D

Over the years I've had:
800MHz Titanium PowerBook G4
1GHz Titanium PowerBook G4 (wish I'd never sold this one :( - the Ti PB's were sweet!)
1.8GHz PowerMac G5
12" 867MHz PowerBook G4
15" 1.83GHz CoreDuo MacBook Pro
17" 2.16GHz CoreDuo MacBook Pro
15" 2.5GHz Core2Duo MacBook Pro (current Mac)



All that for 8 years :eek::eek::D:D:D


1 new desktop & 1 used laptop in 10 years.

PC's rule :p:p:p

:angel:

[Scallops]

All that for 8 years :eek::eek::D:D:D


1 new desktop & 1 used laptop in 10 years.

PC's rule :p:p:p

:angel:

Heya mate! You took the bait! :D

[samuelclarke]

All that for 8 years :eek::eek::D:D:D


1 new desktop & 1 used laptop in 10 years.

PC's rule :p:p:p

:angel:


Heya mate! You took the bait! :D

Yep, he sure did Scallops! :angel:

And feral, I'm a creative professional (including design, photography and video)...in my game you have to be fairly close to the latest to stay competitive, this is the reason I go through computers so often. As soon as Apple update their line of MacBook Pro's I will be upgrading again...

On the other hand my mum has had the same MacBook Pro for 4 years and will still get another 2 years out of it. My dad uses a 7 year old PowerBook...different needs determine how often you need to upgrade. ;)

[abaddonxi]

Tide comes in, tide goes out.

:D:D:D

[3toes]

I like the Iphone 3gs however it does not multi task. Any rumours if and when a new model is going to arrive?

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I like the Iphone 3gs however it does not multi task. Any rumours if and when a new model is going to arrive?

Current rumours are suggesting that multi-tasking will arrive with iphone os 4 which is scheduled for March.

All current devices will be able to multi task then.

[feral]

Heya mate! You took the bait! :D


Yep, he sure did Scallops! :angel:

And feral, I'm a creative professional (including design, photography and video)...in my game you have to be fairly close to the latest to stay competitive, this is the reason I go through computers so often. As soon as Apple update their line of MacBook Pro's I will be upgrading again...

On the other hand my mum has had the same MacBook Pro for 4 years and will still get another 2 years out of it. My dad uses a 7 year old PowerBook...different needs determine how often you need to upgrade. ;)


And so did both of you :p


Two fish, one hook :D

[Scallops]

And so did both of you :p


Two fish, one hook :D

In Homer Simpson voice - Mmmm - bait :D

[maca]

iPhones are not secure and from a corporate perspective - I do not want my company's data sitting on them! It is a single-threaded, consumer-focused device - with security a very late afterthought. No AV package for them (being single-threaded), and there is no way to check if they have been jail-broken before allowing connection to corporate network!

For those that actually believe there has never been malware for Macs/Linux - dream on!

I am not sure if you have ever used Windoze mobile, but security is not a late afterthought......its not even a thought.
You don't even have to worry about jailbreaking a WM phone, you can load ANY unautrhorised software straight out of the box!

The Mac IPhone OS IS multitasking, the interface just won't let more than one user app run at a time. There are background housekeeping tasks running, so if apple wanted they could have an online background virus checker.....but why, it would just be easier to fix the root cause, just like they do with Linux.
When a new priv elevation or security bug is discovered, they GOSH...FIX IT. So in the next security update it will no longer work.
Thats why Linux doesn't get viruses (there are also other reasons, I.e user runs in a low privilege mode etc...).

[HangOver]

I am not sure if you have ever used Windoze mobile, but security is not a late afterthought......its not even a thought.

Dunno what WM pda you used but with the ones I use they quite happily accept digital certificates, (which I think at the moment are around 2k bit encryption) which can be tied into leased line IP networks using bilateral authentication and then into AD for exchange/server 2007 data access. I would say at a guess that was about 99.99% secure.

Try that with your i-tampon, erm ipad, iphone whatever they are called these days.

I'm 99% sure you can connect you ithingy to exchange via OWA,(IMAP) but a lot of companies would not/should not allow this due to lack of remote device control, (no EAS) or put it another way they would have to be mental.

[manic]

Yeah lets all join the I-Fad! I really want a white, flash, dressed up PC thats been dumbed down for its users!

And if I get one of these Macs I can then spend a fortune and get an Ipod and an Iphone and an Ipad so that they can all sit pretty and play with each other and make me look cool.

Seriously though.. this MAC vs PC thing is just a marketing ploy. The Mac IS a PC ... The Mac PC is a very expensive trendy PC that is running Mac branded OS (which is a unix rip off). They gave it a look and associated it with cool - its been marketed brilliantly.

Btw if you like the fact that MAC is not targeted by as many virus and malware attacks as windows then MAC may not be the best alternative. Save a bundle of cash - get any PC you fancy and install a unix variant like 'Ubuntu'. No one wants to hurt unix, and best of all its free!

If you need a pc that holds your hand whilst you use it, stick to Macs.

So why wont I buy MAC? Well they just aint cool. :p

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Yeah lets all join the I-Fad! I really want a white, flash, dressed up PC thats been dumbed down for its users!

And if I get one of these Macs I can then spend a fortune and get an Ipod and an Iphone and an Ipad so that they can all sit pretty and play with each other and make me look cool.

Seriously though.. this MAC vs PC thing is just a marketing ploy. The Mac IS a PC ... The Mac PC is a very expensive trendy PC that is running Mac branded OS (which is a unix rip off). They gave it a look and associated it with cool - its been marketed brilliantly.

Btw if you like the fact that MAC is not targeted by as many virus and malware attacks as windows then MAC may not be the best alternative. Save a bundle of cash - get any PC you fancy and install a unix variant like 'Ubuntu'. No one wants to hurt unix, and best of all its free!

If you need a pc that holds your hand whilst you use it, stick to Macs.

So why wont I buy MAC? Well they just aint cool. :p

LOL. I suspect that If I knew as much about defenders as you know about this topic I'd be trying to drive mine by getting in the back and pressing the speakers to try and make it go! :wasntme: :D

[dmdigital]

LOL. I suspect that If I knew as much about defenders as you know about this topic I'd be trying to drive mine by getting in the back and pressing the speakers to try and make it go! :wasntme: :D
Wondered why the Puma had rear speakers, thanks for clarifying that;)

Can I use the speakers on the iMac as the mouse:confused:

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Wondered why the Puma had rear speakers, thanks for clarifying that;)

Can I use the speakers on the iMac as the mouse:confused:

Yep, you use them for winding up the mice that run around powering it inside. You don't get that cool without be being powered by rodents :)

[dale]

Here we go again. :D:D

Name the malware. Go on! What exactly are the threats to my iphone? There has never been a mac os X virus that has been able to exists and replicate in the wild. Give me an example of one!

Apple can't win with you guys. They lock it down and you all complain... people jailbreak them to make have more control and you complain...


All right I'll start by saying I like Apple products, they are well built, look great, and work out of the box... which can be a nice change when working in the IT industry :p

OK there have been viruses/malware/trojans for Apples and OSX in the past , there has been:

Opener - Which disabled the builtin OSX firewall
Inqtana worm - Which infected the Bluetooth
RSPlug Trojan - Which would redirect your computer to phishing sites.
iBotNet - botnet software than infects your computer allowing other to execute code on it

And there are more.

What you need to understand is that exploting computers these days is rearly done as a means of exploration and curiosity. These days exploiting and manipulating computers is a multi billion dollar business and it is not viable for the people making money through the viruses investing there money in building exploits for a minority of computer users. It is more financially viable to code viruses and the such for windows as it will reach more people and hopefully get more effect and generate income. I dont endorse this as a viable career but this is how virus creators think it now a business to them.

Saying this as Apple computers get a greater market share this will cause the platform to get more attention from virus/malware writers.

Also you need to not only protect your Mac from viruses that affect OSX but also any 3rd party software that you have on the site as this may have viruses/trojans that could affect these applications.

I would say even thought there are few viruses out there I still have a 3rd party firewall, Anti Virus/malware and Anti Spam siftware on all the Apple computers I manage.

Just quickly on the iPhone thre have been som serious issues with the iPhone with people being able to take control of it via the wifi or a website you visit in safari, there was also a flaw that allowed people to send code to the iPhone as an SMS and it would execute it when it was recieved by the phone. All of the attacks so far allowed people to access the wealth of information that the phone stores about you on it. It also allowed the attacker to access and down load all of the pictures of your screen that the phone takes everytime you minimize an application by hitting the button at the bottom of the iPhone. NEVER do you banking on an iPhone.

Any way to summarize there are issues with Apple products security wise, but Apple do release patched quickly when they find out about them.

Dale

[manic]

hahaaa myth busted...

rightfoot - if your hoping the tide will turn dont get to attached to your i-****s, because if macs take majority you will be surrounded by rotten apples with worms!

[BigJon]

If Apple stuff is so good then why is my iPod broken? :mad::mad:

It keeps on resetting the drive in an endless loop. That is the screen shows the Apple logo and it gives a little buzz. Then the screen goes blank and it does it all over again.

Does anybody know the fix?

[dmdigital]

hahaaa myth busted...

rightfoot - if your hoping the tide will turn dont get to attached to your i-****s, because if macs take majority you will be surrounded by rotten apples with worms!

Just curious, do you own a Land Rover?

[dmdigital]

If Apple stuff is so good then why is my iPod broken? :mad::mad:

It keeps on resetting the drive in an endless loop. That is the screen shows the Apple logo and it gives a little buzz. Then the screen goes blank and it does it all over again.

Does anybody know the fix?

Could need resetting - do a search as it depends on the model what the process is. Usually something like hold a button and turn on. But it could also be a hard drive problem.

[solmanic]

Yeah lets all join the I-Fad! I really want a white, flash, dressed up PC thats been dumbed down for its users!

No fad. Apple have been on the i-system path for over ten years now. It has clearly been a stroke of marketing genius realising that most consumers get hopelessly blockaded by their Windows systems. What we're seeing now is just the crest of a wave that's been building since the introduction of the first iMac in 1998.

I work on a PC and am constantly amazed by the degree of difficulty performing tasks that should just work. I have scores of house-keeping tasks that I know no home user would undertake, just to keep my system running somewhat smoothly.

My wife is on Mac and thank GOD for that. I only have to worry about maintaining my system, not hers. The only thing that makes operating my PC tolerable is that once you've cracked a problem once, it is less trouble to fix it next time. I also rotate most of the internal components every year so at any given time none of the system (other than the box and peripherals) is more than 2 years old. This year it's memory, hard disks & OS.

[Delta_Farce]

Q. How many Apple or Window users leave their machines with a default installation?

A. Probably none.

Herein lies the issue with ANY OS. Out of the box they can be very good, but when people tinker with them they expose themselves to risks. Jailbroken iPhones are a great case in point.

Additionally, allowing root login via ssh or even enabling the root account rather than using sudo (or whatever Macs use) make the whole system vulnerable to attack. How many of you that have done this monitor connection attempts via ssh, report unsuccessful connections or do anything to prevent someone from brute forcing your root password?

Why do people do it? Convenience. But the process circumvents the whole efforts of the OS makers.

Apple hate Flash because of crappy security, yet how many of you Mac users have Flash installed so you can watch Youtube vids? Probably all of you. Same with me on my PC. It's a crap application, but it's the only one that does what I want.

Windows 7 is a step up from XP in terms of it's security model, but I allow certain applications to rus an admin so they don't pester me.

The security of your system is wholy dependent on how you use it. Yes OSX might be better out of the box then Windows, but the stuff people do with it and the applications they install compromise that initial security.

Finally, in regards to Macs usurping Windows across the world they would have to do a lot of work to make their products enterprise friendly before that happens. They don't bind properly to AD and have numerous control and management issues compared to PC's. We've had problems with Exchange connectivity (Entourage functionality) too. The fact of life is that companies aren't going to junk millions in infrastructure costs just to satiate Apple. It'll need to be the other way around before things change to any large degree.

There are also many corporate applications interfaces that just don't have Mac clients. We've just rolled out a new finance system which has no Mac client (not our choice, just the way it is). Apple can't compete with Windows under those terms.

Home and mobile markets are a different story. So good luck to them with that. They'll need it as Google gets serious with Android phones.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Opener - Which disabled the builtin OSX firewall
Dale

Fixed in 2004. So minor and obscure I could hardly find anything on it other than the usual Microsoft love children saying it will be the start of a wave of viruses that will envelope the mac ...blah blah blah.



Inqtana worm - Which infected the Bluetooth
Dale

OSX Inwtana.A - Risk Level 1: Very Low (http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp'docid=2006-021715-3051-99)

Fixed in 2006. less than 50 computers infected.



RSPlug Trojan - Which would redirect your computer to phishing sites.
Dale

Less than 50 users affected and fixed in 07. Containment EASY... Removal EASY - Damage level - LOW - distribution level LOW (http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp'docid=2007-110101-2320-99)



iBotNet - botnet software than infects your computer allowing other to
execute code on it
Dale

For people that torrent steal software and install their pirated software... you are stupid and you deserve anything you get. Norton will gladly sell you something to fix this, or try not stealing software.

Are Mac users under attack?
he short answer, no. Users of Macintosh computers continue to have little to fear from viruses, trojans and worms so long as they take reasonable precautions. (http://www.symantec.com/norton/theme.jsp'themeid=ibotnet)



And there are more.
Dale

Bahahaha!! :D :D I'm quaking in my boots... LOL. :p


YouTube- Get a Mac - Viruses

[weeds]

Q. How many Apple or Window users leave their machines with a default installation?

A. Probably none.

ME :(



Fixed in 2004. So minor and obscure I could hardly find anything on it other than the usual Microsoft love children saying it will be the start of a wave of viruses that will envelope the mac ...blah blah blah.



OSX Inwtana.A - Risk Level 1: Very Low (http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp'docid=2006-021715-3051-99)

Fixed in 2006. less than 50 computers infected.



Less than 50 users affected and fixed in 07. Containment EASY... Removal EASY - Damage level - LOW - distribution level LOW (http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp'docid=2007-110101-2320-99)



For people that torrent steal software and install their pirated software... you are stupid and you deserve anything you get. Norton will gladly sell you something to fix this, or try not stealing software.

Are Mac users under attack?
he short answer, no. Users of Macintosh computers continue to have little to fear from viruses, trojans and worms so long as they take reasonable precautions. (http://www.symantec.com/norton/theme.jsp'themeid=ibotnet)



Bahahaha!! :D :D I'm quaking in my boots... LOL. :p


YouTube- Get a Mac - Viruses (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdF5IsyOxU4)

buggered if i know........but i love my mac (newly converted, never to return to a pc) and it sounds like steve know whats he is on about.....so i'm with him

[Delta_Farce]

ME :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta_Farce
Q. How many Apple or Window users leave their machines with a default installation?

A. Probably none.

ME


Good for you Weeds. You will be virus/exploit free, and you're probably the only person on this site that can claim that unless there are some OpenBSD users here :)

[weeds]

Good for you Weeds. You will be virus/exploit free, and you're probably the only person on this site that can claim that unless there are some OpenBSD users here :)

er...yep straight out of the box, too scare to do anything just incase

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Good for you Weeds. You will be virus/exploit free, and you're probably the only person on this site that can claim that unless there are some OpenBSD users here :)

Not so fast! Our computer is now a couple of months old and the only non-standard software on it is skype, firefox, and i-work. :)

I don't really need anything else...

[Ferret]

For people that torrent steal software and install their pirated software... you are stupid and you deserve anything you get. Norton will gladly sell you something to fix this, or try not stealing software.


Can't say I disagree with that. Down loading things from dodgy sources will eventually lead to problems. It is not really relevant whether it is a Mac or a PC. For instance - Mactalk - Search results being hijacked - 02/03/2010 (http://forums.mactalk.com.au/11/81711-search-results-being-hijacked.html)

I like these quotes from the forum exchange:

"This is the first time I've seen something like this on Mac! Was my friend delving into places insalubrious? Is that where he picked up this nasty?"


"If you want it fixed, wipe the Mac and install 10.4 from scratch."

"I can't find where the bastard is to trash it Lutze. Spotlight doesn't work and it's nowhere obvious that I can see."

Now you would think they are talking about a PC, no its a Mac. Some more of the details can can be found here - My First OSX Trojan (http://lemonnier.se/erwan/blog/item/49/)

"Let's make a pause here and sum up our findings. What we have so far is a generic trojan that can be hidden inside any osx installer file. This trojan runs as root on your computer and executes whatever gets published by the CGI script at "94.247.2.109/cgi-bin/generator.pl". Notice the simplicity and efficiency of the mechanism: it is space efficient (a few lines of shell and perl script), it is reasonably obfuscated (uuencoded), it gets its active payload from a web site hence only relying on a working internet connection and on HTTP, a protocol seldom blocked by firewalls. It does not even matter if you are not online when installing the trojan since sooner or later cron will run AdobeFlash while you are connected and whatever payload 94.247.2.109 publishes at the time will be executed with root privileges on your computer.

So in other word, your computer has just been turned into a bot, a zombie, and 94.247.2.109 is your new master."

As said before, you can find any number of people having problems with PCs just look at the PC based forums. Of course it is easy enough to find any number of people having Mac problems, just look in the Mac based forums.

Yeah, the tide is turning but so what.

[Delta_Farce]

Not so fast! Our computer is now a couple of months old and the only non-standard software on it is skype, firefox, and i-work. :)

I don't really need anything else...

Meaning your machine is now exposed to all of the problems in those applications, and therefore the security has changed from the factory standard.

The point I'm trying to make here is that arguing over which OS is more secure is null and void when we load these machines up with applications that have their own problems. How many ports does Skype open up? Is your machine acting as a Skype super-node? Etc etc ad nauseum.

Virus' are ONE way of compromising security, not the only one. If I wanted to collect someone's data there are far easier ways to do it than writing a virus.

I'm no Mac fan. I think it's a nicely dressed up Unix, but it isn't the best one in terms of security. Most user friendly, sure, but you get locked in to Apple software, service and Apple approved hardware. I don't like that idea, I'd rather be able to buy or use what I want.

[Tombie]

As opposed to the 'old days' when people like SCO gave a specific list of preferred hardware?

:wasntme:

[inside]

Most user friendly, sure, but you get locked in to Apple software, service and Apple approved hardware. I don't like that idea, I'd rather be able to buy or use what I want.
This is the problem with the Mac. I have a Mac and like it a lot but I don't like where they are heading. Look at the iPhone and iPad, you can only put stuff on it that Apple says you can, how long before they move this over to their computers in the theory that people like being looked after and being told what they can and can't do with their hardware. Apple has also shown in the past that it will screw over customers if it suits their business plans and then there's the screw ups that they remain tight lipped over until a magic update appears.

I think I'll have a holiday from Apple and wait and see where they are heading. At the end of the day a computer is just there to get a job done.

[RaZz0R]

mmmm, perhaps I should create a good virus for the iPhone then lol

[EchiDna]

Distinguished Colleagues,

For those of us with enlightened wallets.....
Livin' the dream,

Scallops out.


fixed it for you :p

[Pedro_The_Swift]

You in Singapore now EchiDna?;):p

:Rolling:

[dobbo]

All that for 8 years :eek::eek::D:D:D


1 new desktop & 1 used laptop in 10 years.

PC's rule :p:p:p

:angel:


I was thinking the same thing, but I'm still happy with my G5

[Pedro_The_Swift]

be even happier with a G4 hey dobbo,,,:p

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I'm getting a bit bored of the security discussion. By just being sensible the only time I have to think about it is in these threads... LOL :)

I guess the interesting thing is that people with macs generally have far fewer problems, and the computers run far longer without intervention and that's a good thing.

Even the administrator of this board, Inc, who sells both PC's and Macs says that he has consistently far fewer support issues with the Macs he sells (I can't be bothered finding the posts).

I've never said that macs are problem free. People do manage to have issues with them. However Apple's hardware/OS solution does usually give people far better outcomes and this has been the case for several years now.

I don't think anyone with any objectivity could plausibly deny this. They give really good outcomes for non-IT types, yet power users find them excellent as well.

I just don't understand why many PC users (who usually have little or no exposure to them) are so vehemently against macs. I only recommend them because I like friends and family to have better outcomes with their computers. :)

For example... take Weeds (sorry mate). He's not an IT type, but he enjoys using his IT. He was having all the usual PC type problems, and he was up for a replacement so he bought a mac. I spent an hour with him initially, and he had a few issues with Snow Leopard when it was new. These were fixed with help of the excellent Apple support, and I'll accept blame for this - I should have encouraged him to wait a month. At any rate he's away now - and he loves it. Job done. Now he IM's me with stuff he's found that I don't know about. :)

[Bushie]

I'm getting a bit bored of the security discussion. By just being sensible the only time I have to think about it is in these threads... LOL :)

I guess the interesting thing is that people with macs generally have far fewer problems, and the computers run far longer without intervention and that's a good thing.

Even the administrator of this board, Inc, who sells both PC's and Macs says that he has consistently far fewer support issues with the Macs he sells (I can't be bothered finding the posts).

I've never said that macs are problem free. People do manage to have issues with them. However Apple's hardware/OS solution does usually give people far better outcomes and this has been the case for several years now.

I don't think anyone with any objectivity could plausibly deny this. They give really good outcomes for non-IT types, yet power users find them excellent as well.

I just don't understand why many PC users (who usually have little or no exposure to them) are so vehemently against macs. I only recommend them because I like friends and family to have better outcomes with their computers. :)

For example... take Weeds (sorry mate). He's not an IT type, but he enjoys using his IT. He was having all the usual PC type problems, and he was up for a replacement so he bought a mac. I spent an hour with him initially, and he had a few issues with Snow Leopard when it was new. These were fixed with help of the excellent Apple support, and I'll accept blame for this - I should have encouraged him to wait a month. At any rate he's away now - and he loves it. Job done. Now he IM's me with stuff he's found that I don't know about. :)

I run a windows machine - works for me. Maybe a Mac would do the job better but I don't know and I'm unlikely to find out because what I use works.

One comment though, my understanding of macs is that the hardware (at least) side is pretty well locked down ?

Which would make me suggest that a lot of the windows problems are due to the fact that there are a zillion hardware combos available that can all conflict with another million OS changes.

When it's all said and done a PC/mac is a tool to get a job done.



Martyn

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Once again, Apple proves, they might cost a little more but at least they are good...

Apple tops Consumer Reports' tech support survey (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10467112-37.html)

Oh, and all you guys bashing the iphone and ipad for not having multi tasking will be disappointed with iphone os 4.0 (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/03/11/apples_iphone_4_0_software_to_deliver_multitasking _support.html) as expected.

[VladTepes]

Totally different market. I don;t know ANYONE who is unhappy with their iPhone. Everyone loves them. Blackberry users are being converted by the 1000's.

BUT if you think for a moment that this will translate to more people buying Mac than PC / Windows - dream on ! Whether better or not is not even the point. PC / Windows combination is just so entrenched in the business community.

Besides there's not as much reason to hate Microsoft any more. Bill Gates is no longer the richest man in the world.

The Forbes rich list 2010 (http://www.theage.com.au/executive-style/luxury/the-forbes-rich-list-2010-20100311-q00s.html)

and how to get on the list...

Forbes rich list is Slim pickings | Richard Adams | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/mar/11/forbes-rich-lists-carlos-slim-billionaire)

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Totally different market. I don;t know ANYONE who is unhappy with their iPhone. Everyone loves them. Blackberry users are being converted by the 1000's.

BUT if you think for a moment that this will translate to more people buying Mac than PC / Windows - dream on ! Whether better or not is not even the point. PC / Windows combination is just so entrenched in the business community.

Besides there's not as much reason to hate Microsoft any more. Bill Gates is no longer the richest man in the world.

The Forbes rich list 2010 (http://www.theage.com.au/executive-style/luxury/the-forbes-rich-list-2010-20100311-q00s.html)

and how to get on the list...

Forbes rich list is Slim pickings | Richard Adams | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/mar/11/forbes-rich-lists-carlos-slim-billionaire)

Seriously, Steve Balmer is a cockhead!

YouTube- Steve Ballmer going crazy

[Captain_Rightfoot]

BUT if you think for a moment that this will translate to more people buying Mac than PC / Windows - dream on ! Whether better or not is not even the point. PC / Windows combination is just so entrenched in the business community.


My serious reply .... :)

In the US Apple is constantly increasing it's corporate market share. However I agree that will be along way off in Australia. MS has the market sown up - ironically it's a bit like it was in the old days - no one ever got fired for buying MS, no matter how bad the disaster that follows.

Anyway, it matters not. My interest is only in encouraging people to try something a bit different that happens to be a far better solution.

A few years ago I was installing XP on my last pc, fighting off viruses and threats and watching it struggle with the loads imposed on it by that, managing with failing video cards, dieing processors, failing DVD drives, incompatible drivers, etc etc.

It was at times difficult and always just a plain drudge and I thought if this is how it is for someone who's worked on computers for all his life how the hell does someone who doesn't work in IT manage it? It was then that I decided to make the jump and if I liked it slowly convert my family/support network as they were having the same troubles too.

5 years later and now when I come home I just use the computer as there is very little maintenance, and I've virtually eliminated my support network role. YES :D

[Tombie]

Exactly.... My MBP has been a dream in the last 4 years..

And now, by putting the old boy onto an iMac, I dont get phone calls of "help" all the time.. He just does his thing :cool:

[Delta_Farce]

Here we go again. Mac fan boys completely ignoring the fact that there are other security vulnerabilities than virus'.

If Macs actually worked with corpoarate backend systems they would have a CHANCE to usurp MS. They don't, Apple don't care, Macs will not challenge PC's until that changes.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Here we go again. Mac fan boys completely ignoring the fact that there are other security vulnerabilities than virus'.

If Macs actually worked with corpoarate backend systems they would have a CHANCE to usurp MS. They don't, Apple don't care, Macs will not challenge PC's until that changes.

LOL! :D

[dale]

you're probably the only person on this site that can claim that unless there are some OpenBSD users here :)

Gosh OpenBSD, I use Linux on all the systems I have running.... I dont have issues with Viruses but I still run AntiVirus and a Firewall on all the systems.


Bahahaha!! :D :D I'm quaking in my boots... LOL. :p

LOL you surely put me in my place :p

And what you said is right these have never been major threats to OSX, but as Apple gains more market share people will begin to shift there attention to Apple products and invest more time into developing exploits for the Apple products.

Also as there is a larer market share of apple products it will be easier for issues as mentioned before to survive in the wild.

This is also true for platforms like the iPhone if it is adopted in business the same situation is most likely.

Security through obscurity only works for so long.

[applemac]

I bought my mac book pro when they first came out about 9 years ago or so and till now I had no virus or any hardware problems. Now running OS 10.3.9 and with a small amount of regular maintenance it runs like new.
It's only a 400 GHZ - 10 GB Hard-drive - 750 MB Memory, in other words a little Pygmy in a world of today's Giants with massive hard drives, fast processors and large memory capacity.
It's obviously a bit slow then today's computers but I run Adobe products in it without problems (Photoshop, Illustrator etc.)

I just want to say that I had a Packard Bell PC once before the Mac, and it lasted me two years till the power supply died then not long after, the motherboard.
This MAC has been running with no problems for the past 9 years.

Fine, you pay more for them but you get what you pay for.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Security through obscurity only works for so long.

Look, the problem is it's fundamentally much more difficult (I'm not saying it's impossible). There are more than enough macs out there that someone would have already done it by now if it was easily possible. I mean not even once to access 11% of the north american computer market?? (http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/03/mac-os-x-north-american-installed-base-almost-11.ars)

The other thing that I think you lot have completely failed to grasp is that Apple is a far smaller company, that is making nearly as much profit as MS. I'm sure they want to do better, but with their current business model (of supplying HW and SW) it is just logistically impossible for them to seriously degrade the MS market share. I'm implying that they are doing as well as they want to.

Does the concept of big enough to attack but too small to be hit mean anything to you all?

[Delta_Farce]

A Mac webserver has been compromised at work today. The Solaris, Linux and Windows ones are fine though. Seems someone managed to add a redirection rule to the server and deface a web page.

Should I now conclude that Apple security is lax, or is it more likely that the configuration of the web sever and associated services is the problem?

[dale]

Look, the problem is it's fundamentally much more difficult (I'm not saying it's impossible). There are more than enough macs out there that someone would have already done it by now if it was easily possible. I mean not even once to access 11% of the north american computer market?? (http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/03/mac-os-x-north-american-installed-base-almost-11.ars)

They do have a growing market share and are making money hand over fist, but what needs to be under stood here is that Virus/Trojan/Malware writers are in it for the money and not to stick it to Apple and Steve Jobs. So it is the more 'business savy' thing for the people writing the exploits to attack 89% of computers or 11%.

This is with out even getting into discussions of which code base is better, because that is simple as OSX is based on FreeBSD and has there hard work incorporated into there OS providing OSX with a stron and secure code for them to develop upon.

When there is money involved and that is all Virus/Trojan/Malware is about these days it ie all about the numbers. :D

Also I think it is time to drop that I only use Mac and Unix products where I work and at home and Apple gear are great products and of awesome quality but it is important for mac users to not feel invincible and under stand why they are not in the cross hairs.

Also we have not even touched on 3rd party apps and the FAIL there... ADOBE PDF any one :angel: LOL


Does the concept of big enough to attack but too small to be hit mean anything to you all?

Means nothing but has me supremely curious. Could you Elaborate?

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Means nothing but has me supremely curious. Could you Elaborate?

Well, with Apple's current size they are beneficial to Microsoft. They help them stay out of anti competition troubles. What's more, while they are this small changing their pricing structure to match Apple's prices would only hurt themselves.

It was a bit like Ansett lowering their prices to attack Compass when compass only had 6 planes, so the amount of business they could take from them was finite. They should have just ignored them and concentrated on their own cost structures.

Anyway, this might interest some of you and will no doubt be the reason for another tirade from the mainstream thinkers :p It's kind of what I've been saying all along. You pay a bit more for a mac up front but over the life of the computer it usually works out OK.

TCO: Macs int enterprise are easier, and cheaper to manage than Windows PCs (http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=6294&tag=col1;post-6294)

[sashadidi]

:D And what a content, virus / malware / no anti everything software equipped trio we are too! ;)
make that one more!!!and in two sites Nz and Russia, maybe that makes 5?
:)

[PeterP]

Did my first digital electronics course in '77, bought my first PC in '81 (a monster with 64K mem and dual 5" floppy drives). Used PC for years and upon first exposure to Vista a MBP joined the family. 3 months later an Imac also appeared. They both have Parallels running XP as there are things I can still only do on a PC.

For day to day using a Mac is unbeatable but I still can't replace the PC that runs my irrigation system with a Mac.
When told I had to use an IPhone I went into "Not another new phone to learn mode". After two weeks use I had not had to threaten it with destruction by hammer attack, a absolute first.

Would like to play with Win 7 but find it hard to part with $200-300 for it. Just bought the latest MacOS for $52 for a 5 license for home use.
I love the Mac overall easy to use, spell check everywhere, autofill stuff based on how I've used it previously the list goes on and on.

Virus/malware/spyware/etcware we are all vulnerable, anything man made can be man broken eventually.
After all they are just FRED's (F****** Ridiculous Electronic Devices):)

[flagg]

Good for you Weeds. You will be virus/exploit free, and you're probably the only person on this site that can claim that unless there are some OpenBSD users here :)

Who, me? :D:D *hugs Puffy*

Seriously. Mac People. OSX is fundamentally less secure than Windows. By Architecture. The Memory Management is crap. Useless ASLR, no NX (PAX etc). Poorly audited code.

A quick quiz - how many OSX security flaws where fixed by Apple in the past 30 days? What percentage of them were critical? And what protections does the OS have against successful exploitation?

(PS, I'm not a mac hater, I have 2 MBP's and have had many many Apples since my IIe)