Is it ok to snatch from

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

I have an ARB deluxe bar on the Disco. Underneath there are 2 eyelets. Are these strong enough to snatch off, or jut to use with a drag chain?

Also those rated hooks at accessory shops, are they safe to snatch from or are they just to tow from

[Waxenwane]

The 2 eyelets are Hi Lift jack attachment points. Do not use for recovery unless you want to tear them off :)
I presume the hooks you speak of are the bolt ons with the retaining strip, they are fine. My understanding is that competition recovery points when bolted must be in shear, i:e pulling the bolts sideways

[Shamo]

I use mine all the time and havnt had a problem.

Shamo

[alien]

I use mine all the time and havnt had a problem.

Shamo

I Have also and will again no doubt;)

Big difference between...
1...A "gentle" snatch, eg.. loss of traction(wheel spining on surface).
2...Trying to "drag" a bellied vehicle, eg.. sitting on diff housing ect..

[CraigE]

As said the eyelets are not to be used for recovery. They are not rated and as such if you use them and an accident does occur with someone getting hurt you can and will be held criminally neglient, not to mention any civil liability.
Not what they are designed for.
The rated recovery points are OK as long as they are installed correctlly to the chassis.

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

Makes it a little hard to place a safe snatch point onto the front of a Disco.
The rated hooks are classed as Tow Hooks
The eyelets on the bottom of the ARB deluxe winch bar are to attach your winch cable hook or used in winch recovery by using a block for multi line pull.
I haven't seen any thing that is really a dedicated snatch hook for a Disco.( there are a few home made jobbies, but nothing that is rated

[dullbird]

are there any recovery hooks that clearly state that theyare rated for such a thing like snatching etc...I would be surprised if there was.

[Landover]

You could put an equalising strap between the eyes to spread the load increasing your safty margin.
Cheers, David.

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

You could put an equalising strap between the eyes to spread the load increasing your safty margin.
Cheers, David.
That came across my mind. I bought this bar 2nd hand and I noticed the two eyelets are slightly bent in towards one another, so presumed an equalising strap would force them towards each other as it would pull in as well.
So in theory there is no real safe recovery hook for bogged to the axle snatching, it seems close the eyes and keep finger crossed and hope it holds

[agrojnr]

We can fit plates (which we cut) for recovery points (arb sell them)

They make them for all types including disco/rangie

Adam

[waz]

I had an engineer look at mine and said it would be possible to do light snatch recoveries; but only if all bolts attaching the bullbar are high tensile and an equaliser strap is used.

...wouldn't put that in writing though.

Waz

[VladTepes]

We can fit plates (which we cut) for recovery points (arb sell them)

They make them for all types including disco/rangie

Adam

more details ?

[PAT303]

Are the eye's everyone is talking about on the bottom directly below the jacking points?. Pat

[matti4556]

Methinks we need sum pitchers? ;)
(just so we are all on the same page)

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

Methinks we need sum pitchers? ;)
(just so we are all on the same page)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[slug_burner]

those eyes are only mild steel sheet, I stuck a shackle into one and got towed less than ten km when I turned off the Tanami towards Halls Creek on the bitumen when the fuel ran out. The eyes were a little deformed after a gentle tow on the bitumen so I would not expect much under a snatch recovery situation.

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

those eyes are only mild steel sheet, I stuck a shackle into one and got towed less than ten km when I turned off the Tanami towards Halls Creek on the bitumen when the fuel ran out. The eyes were a little deformed after a gentle tow on the bitumen so I would not expect much under a snatch recovery situation.
So using them for winching is also not a good idea?

[Waxenwane]

So using them for winching is also not a good idea?

Lets put it this way, if someone expecting a snatch or winching from me had connected up to those I would refuse.

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

Lets put it this way, if someone expecting a snatch or winching from me had connected up to those I would refuse.
looks by the answers ( lack of many) there are no good recovery points for a Disco that are safe on the front.

[Xtreme]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Those eyes were apparantly used in manufacture (to hold bar in jig or something) and were never intended to be used for towing or recovery.

I'm not sure if it was due to some 'unfortunate incidents' or not but I notice that they do not appear on later ARB bars.

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

Those eyes were apparantly used in manufacture (to hold bar in jig or something) and were never intended to be used for towing or recovery.

I'm not sure if it was due to some 'unfortunate incidents' or not but I notice that they do not appear on later ARB bars.
If that is true then ARB should have cut them off after manufacture. Leaving something like that on is going to encourage unsuspecting users to use them for what they are not intended for.
I have done a search on this site and people have been told by ARB staff in the past that it was a recovery point. Seeing mine have a bend in them made me wonder.

[PAT303]

I've been snatching,towing,winching off mine for 12 years,I've had pulleys hanging off them,pulled 12 palm tree's out of my backyard with them,it's a bit late to tell me there not an anchor point.Thinking about it mine have had more use than any other bit of my recovery gear.They haven't bent,cracked or suffered in anyway. Pat

[Xtreme]

I've been snatching,towing,winching off mine for 12 years,I've had pulleys hanging off them,pulled 12 palm tree's out of my backyard with them,it's a bit late to tell me there not an anchor point.Thinking about it mine have had more use than any other bit of my recovery gear.They haven't bent,cracked or suffered in anyway. Pat

You must be nice and gentle with your snatching, towing and winching then Pat as I have seen the result of one that was torn out during a recovery.
And to see one that has let go is enough for me not to be anywhere within coee of anyone using them in such a way.

If they were there for recovery purposes, and were fit for purpose, then why don't ARB bars still have them?

[PAT303]

All I can say is I can think of two winching recoveries that needed two pulleys to get the defender to move and one snatch where we had to get a 110 tray and an RR onto mine to get it out and like I said if never had an issue with them,I just went out and had a look at them and they are perfectly sound.Maybe we need to get onto ARB and ask about them,I cannot see them as an anchor for a welding jig during manufacturing in any way and if there not an anchor point I can't see why they would be re-enforced the hole,to me they are an anchor point. Pat

[victa125]

Just had a look at the rangie, It has the bottom holes, But also two large threaded eye bolts, fitted pretty well in the end of the chassis rails. Seen similar on a mates pushyota, using the bottom holes and eye bolts it actualy hinged? Long story short, I would not trust them.

[waz]

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/4531/s6300048.jpg

Sorry, this is completely different to mine. These are NOT the points to which I was referring in my previous post.

Waz

[bee utey]

Those vertical eye plates are suitable for vertical and fore/aft loading, i.e lifting and towing in a straightish line. For horizontal loads your plate /eyebolt should be horizontal too. In my dissipated youth I used to go dune buggying. The best snatching points were proper towbars strongly mounted to the front. I personally wouldn't allow snatching on anything less well constructed than a rear heavy duty towbar. It shouldn't be hard to engineer a towbar into your front bar, and you can also use it to manouver your boat/van back into its carport.

[VladTepes]

I anyone has experience to the contrary let me know but I THINK they are good with a straight line force, but not good laterally (they bend side to side too easily).

And yes, with a snatch recovery there is no need for a bull at a gate aooroachm as is so often seen with the Nissota crowd. Slow and steady....

[agrojnr]

more details ?

There a plate that bolts to your bull bar mounts so that you can pull off your chassis rather than the bull bar, I have them on my disco I can take pics if need be.


The eyelets on the bull bars were removed on the later models because of the airbag set up


Adam

[Sparksdisco]

So your not talking about these eylets then?
22766
And i assume these are recovery points?

If there not then dont know what are:(:(:(

[bee utey]

So your not talking about these eylets then?
22766
And i assume these are recovery points?

If there not then dont know what are:(:(:(

A snatch strap is rated to 8 tons or so. You want a strap to break before a steel part, flying metal kills. Would you hang 3 discos off these eyelets? Probably not. They are suitable for normal towing and gentle recovery only.

[bruiser69]

As said the eyelets are not to be used for recovery. They are not rated and as such if you use them and an accident does occur with someone getting hurt you can and will be held criminally neglient, not to mention any civil liability.
Not what they are designed for.
The rated recovery points are OK as long as they are installed correctlly to the chassis.
Is the one under removable cover in bumper the recommended front recovery point?
Cheers..B

[Gullible]

this was from a single google search

Troutbeck Sales & Services Land Rover products (http://www.troutbecksales.com/drec.htm)

Recovery Points (http://www.4x4intelligence.com.au/recovery_points.htm)

Tow Hook with Keeper - Bushranger (http://www.bushranger.com.au/tow_hook_with_keeper.php)

4WD1.com - 4WD Recovery Gear - Snatch Strap, Shackles, Winch Straps & more. (http://www.4wd1.com/recovery-gear.htm#hooks)

so there are a few recovery point out there:wasntme:

[Blknight.aus]

those eyelets are there to replace the tie down points that get unbolted from the vehicle as part of the barworks installation.

[barjop]

I have a S1 Disco with an ARB airbag compatible bull bar, current shape with winch rollers recessed. ARB advised me that I should not snatch from the eyelets on the front of the bar. They did say i could use it as a winch attachment point and with an added accessory I could use it as a highlift jacking point. (more money) I don't know why they just don't cut a T hole like TJM.

As per previous post the rated points are shown if you follow the links. AMV (in Victoria) also stock them.
LRA have a recovery point which I recently found. follow link which really looks good.
Recovery Gear (http://www.lrautomotive.com.au/contents/en-us/d170.html)

Regards
Barjop
98 Discob S1Tdi Auto
2" Ridepro lift
Rear Tru Trac

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

this was from a single google search

Troutbeck Sales & Services Land Rover products (http://www.troutbecksales.com/drec.htm)

Recovery Points (http://www.4x4intelligence.com.au/recovery_points.htm)

Tow Hook with Keeper - Bushranger (http://www.bushranger.com.au/tow_hook_with_keeper.php)

4WD1.com - 4WD Recovery Gear - Snatch Strap, Shackles, Winch Straps & more. (http://www.4wd1.com/recovery-gear.htm#hooks)

so there are a few recovery point out there:wasntme:
Yes but none of them say you can Snatch from them.
The tow hook and recovery hook has 3.5 tonne load rating, so it could break before the strap does.
So really it appears no one is standing behind their product and offering a safe Snatch point

[midal]

Yes but none of them say you can Snatch from them.
The tow hook and recovery hook has 3.5 tonne load rating, so it could break before the strap does.
So really it appears no one is standing behind their product and offering a safe Snatch point

Yes and it's not hard to see why no manufacturer or company would state such a thing. I think the "tow/recovery hook" is rated for 4.5 tonnes, not 3.5 (stamped on a lot of them 10,000 lbs......2.2lbs per kg = 4.54 tonnes)
I don't think any company would actually state suitable for snatching due to the very large amount of variables involved in such an operation.....idiots taking off flat strap, weights of vehicles, type of terrain like mud or sand, types of strap utilised etc etc.
If someone actually stated that it was suitable for snatching and for any reason something went amiss and parts ended up flying through the air and killed/injured someone, then obviously the manufacturer would be liable because it was advertised as suitable for the purpose.
Used in a commonsense manner and with due care it would probably be OK in most situations, but of course there ARE the variables etc that need to be taken into account.
Recovery does not necessarily mean snatch, basic CYA on the manufacturers part.

Cheers
Mick

[ramblingboy42]

i have a substantial bar bolted to the chassis in the same position as the recovery points mentioned in BARJOPS thread. it is approx 50mm dia with very solid mounts. I dont know if it was fitted (maybe previous owner) in conjunction with ARB bar, but it looks the goods. do any other Disco owners have the same bar.? sorry...no pic hope description tells the story it is same width as chassis rails and is bolted up with hi tensile bolts in shear. I think you could pull anything from this bar.

[d2dave]

My belief is that the eyes on the ARB bar are for a high lift jack adapter.

I have recently done a 4x4 driver training course which included safety with recovery and no way would I use the eye on the bar.

This is what you should have for a recovery point.

Dave.

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/4492/img4005b.jpg (http://img683.imageshack.us/i/img4005b.jpg/)

[midal]

Yes, I agree with you there Mr Whippy.

Cheers
Mick

[Zute]

I think a few good points have been raised,
1.Snatching should be done at a slow speed, second low ?
2. If you have doubts about the strenght of some part, don't use it.
3. Get some training.

[VladTepes]

Whippy that doesnt show a pic for me but if I click on it it takes me to imageshack but not sure what pic you mean ?

[d2dave]

Whippy that doesnt show a pic for me but if I click on it it takes me to imageshack but not sure what pic you mean ?

That's interesting. I went back to the post in question and the pic has disappeared. I will try editing the post and repost the pic.

Dave.